Marriage is a tool for spiritual growth

[lonelybird]

Are you Moai?

 

Self-centreness won't have a beautiful marriage

Non self-centreness will have (godly way)

[disgracian]

Obviously selfishness won't result in the best marriage; I don't think anybody is disputing that. The point that I have laboured to register with you is that the selfless love you describe does not require god to achieve. In fact, as the statistics show, it doesn't seem to make any difference to a marriage whether the couple believe in god or not.

 

Do you understand this now?

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

Obviously selfishness won't result in the best marriage; I don't think anybody is disputing that. The point that I have laboured to register with you is that the selfless love you describe does not require god to achieve. In fact, as the statistics show, it doesn't seem to make any difference to a marriage whether the couple believe in god or not.

 

Do you understand this now?

 

Cheers,

D.

If you don't believe in God, didn't talk with God, then you have no idea what God can do

 

Do you understand this now?

[disgracian]

Why do you feel the need to create diversions instead of just answering the question put to you? I haven't made one single comment regarding what god can or cannot do, so that's an obvious smokescreen. On the other hand, you have been making unfounded generalisations for the entire thread and you don't seem to want to admit this.

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

Why do you feel the need to create diversions instead of just answering the question put to you? I haven't made one single comment regarding what god can or cannot do, so that's an obvious smokescreen. On the other hand, you have been making unfounded generalisations for the entire thread and you don't seem to want to admit this.

 

Cheers,

D.

Ok, you can wait for my book what God does in a happy marriage, that would be many years after

[lonelybird]

Why do you feel the need to create diversions instead of just answering the question put to you?

Cheers,

D.

That's the rule disscussing with me "never stay on topic, speak what on mind", don't you think this way is more creative?

[pelagicsands]

That's the rule disscussing with me "never stay on topic, speak what on mind", don't you think this way is more creative?

I will have to give that a try. Sounds like it could really spice things up.

[disgracian]

I like to stick to topics until a resolution is reached. This almost never happens so it's something of a massochistic hobby of mine. It's worth it for the rare moments of mutual honesty I encounter though, and gives me the hope I need to carry on.

 

Cheers,

D.

[riobikini]

I think I remember LonelyBird when she first came here (if it is the *same* LB, that is) -and back then her first posts were about her relationship with a guy she wasn't so sure about.

 

As I said -if this is the *same* LB- when she first came on the scene God wasn't doing alot in her best interest -and prayer apparrently wasn't working too well, either, and she appeared one day on LS.

 

Of course, I gave advice about the relationship (I used to do alot of posting in the Coping/Breakup forum here -my own miserable relationship back then being the prime inspiration.)

 

Suddenly, (sadly, and obviously) God has taken my place (Smile) and no advice about a doubtful relationship is needed.

 

All must be well.

 

But -man!- although, I try (hard) to respect other folks' views about God, religion, and politics, I am amazed at the transformation and the fiercely-held religious/spiritual beliefs that can grow and flourish during (again, obviously) *good* times, or times when there are no serious problems.

 

And don't get me wrong -I'm truly not mocking or making fun of anyone or their beliefs.

 

It's just that I take some issue with those who -when they are *tested* in their beliefs- forget all about their statutes, promises, and other spiritually-influenced teachings and run to secular means for *real* help.

 

(Smile)

 

But -look- I'm all full of forgiveness.

 

And to each his/her own beliefs.

 

(Smile)

 

And I'll be here when I'm needed again.

 

(Li'l pout.)

 

-Rio

 

P.S. LonelyBird -glad to see you are doing well.

[disgracian]

Doesn't look like it. Seems she was thumping from day one.

 

Cheers,

D.

[quankanne]

In fact, as the statistics show, it doesn't seem to make any difference to a marriage whether the couple believe in god or not.

 

have to keep in mind that statistics don't necessarily give a true representation of a population when based upon surveys that often have a bias to them. However, I think a good rule of thumb is that for a believer, making God a part of the marriage helps make that marriage successful for them.

 

regarding the divorce statistics among people who are religious: in my faith, the Catholic Church has *very* definite ideas about the sacramentality of marriage and does her best to prepare couples for what they are about to undertake. However, she also realizes that some marriages are not "perfect" in nature, in the sense that they sometimes are affected by flaws (emotional, moral, etc) that affects the sacramentality of marriage. Which is where anullments come into play, where a couple can petition to declare the union sacramentally void, which has nothing whatsoever with the legality of the union and everything to do with whether the marriage was a morally and sacramentally valid one to begin with. So yeah, you're gonna see Catholics getting divorced because they sometimes realize that the union was not a valid one to begin with.

[Jeffrey]

I already have a very happy marriage without serving any spirit. It's not about "self-centreness', my body is my body whether I'm married or single. I hear a lot of religious types say your body is no longer your own as you did and I don't care for that viewpoint. I'm 100% monogamous, but my body is mine to do with as I please, it is not my spouses.

 

I have heard people with your persuasion suggest that married spouses cannot masturbate and other similarly ridiculous notions that go in line with this 'Your body is not your own anymore' stuff.

 

Not for me, I've never stepped foot in a church outside of weddings and funerals my whole life and I never will.

 

There are certain uncomfortableness when you transfer from self-centreness to other oriented serving spirit. If all married people get this, they will have a happy marriage

[disgracian]

have to keep in mind that statistics don't necessarily give a true representation of a population when based upon surveys that often have a bias to them.

What do you think suggests a particular bias in that survey? I'm not saying there isn't, but I'm keen to hear your thoughts.

So yeah, you're gonna see Catholics getting divorced because they sometimes realize that the union was not a valid one to begin with.

Catholics have always made up their own traditions and put them on equal (sometimes greater) footing than Biblical teachings, so this doesn't exactly surprise me any more than their recent announcement that parts of Genesis aren't to be taken literally (I happen to agree with them on that one). What I found very interesting is that the trend included the more fundamentalist "What God has joined, let no man separate..." crowd as well.

 

This is my own speculation, but there are probably a significant amount of broken marriages in that camp that don't end in divorce because of the religious stigma surrounding it, so the proportion of unsuccessful marriages is probably even higher still. Of course the same goes for the secular groups as well, but in that case there would be less incentive to cling to a doomed marriage.

 

For these reasons I find little merit in the idea that God is a necessary or even beneficial basis for marriage. It comes down to the commitment and the compatibility of the two individuals involved, and very little else.

 

Cheers,

D.

[RecordProducer]

When you live with another human being, all your flaws surface. That's why people need to have compatible flaws (e.g. A is bossy and B is submissive so they get along). To arrange things in a household is not so difficult; to arrange things emotionally is where most people fail.

 

Marriage is like a slap of reality. I am not sure that it necessarily causes personal growth. In many cases marriage inhibits partners or lowers their self-esteem. On a more positive note, the security of marriage gives you a refuge and puts you to sleep rather than makes you grow.

 

The good side - security

What I like about marriage is the security and the fact that I'm never completely lonely; the fact that I can share responsibilities and obligations with my husband, rely on him about many things, that some social life is guaranteed even if I don't try at all, that I have someone to take care of, someone to put the blame on...

 

The bad side - lack of freedom

What I don't like is that I have to taylor my plans according to his; I can feel stuck when I want to go out or have sex and he doesn't; during the times when I am not getting much affection, I feel single and lonely, but my choice of men is limited to one man - my husband.

 

I really think tjhat I would be much happier if I would just date my husband.

[lonelybird]

I think I remember LonelyBird when she first came here (if it is the *same* LB, that is) -and back then her first posts were about her relationship with a guy she wasn't so sure about.

 

As I said -if this is the *same* LB- when she first came on the scene God wasn't doing alot in her best interest -and prayer apparrently wasn't working too well, either, and she appeared one day on LS.

 

Of course, I gave advice about the relationship (I used to do alot of posting in the Coping/Breakup forum here -my own miserable relationship back then being the prime inspiration.)

 

Suddenly, (sadly, and obviously) God has taken my place (Smile) and no advice about a doubtful relationship is needed.

 

All must be well.

 

But -man!- although, I try (hard) to respect other folks' views about God, religion, and politics, I am amazed at the transformation and the fiercely-held religious/spiritual beliefs that can grow and flourish during (again, obviously) *good* times, or times when there are no serious problems.

 

And don't get me wrong -I'm truly not mocking or making fun of anyone or their beliefs.

 

It's just that I take some issue with those who -when they are *tested* in their beliefs- forget all about their statutes, promises, and other spiritually-influenced teachings and run to secular means for *real* help.

 

(Smile)

 

But -look- I'm all full of forgiveness.

 

And to each his/her own beliefs.

 

(Smile)

 

And I'll be here when I'm needed again.

 

(Li'l pout.)

 

-Rio

 

P.S. LonelyBird -glad to see you are doing well.

Thank you, Rio

 

When I first came to this board, I didn't listen to God that period, or I didn't rely on God.

 

But after a while, God has mercy on me, I posted a post about "change", and God gave me big one, and I *questioned* God about many things, and God answered those. then I realized I was wrong for not following God. Since then God give me advices every day, and I think God's advice is much better and wiser than human's, so....I stop asking for people's

 

Yes, God promised me good things and these things is going to pass. I've seen some passed:laugh:. And from carnal eyes people won't see those promises, but spiritual eyes can see. and supernatrual power is working:bunny:

 

Praise God

 

ps. I may not experience some things, but Holy Spirit knows everything, so my experience won't prevent me to offer advices to others and help people:)

I don't rely on myself, i rely on Holy Spirit

[lonelybird]

I already have a very happy marriage without serving any spirit. It's not about "self-centreness', my body is my body whether I'm married or single. I hear a lot of religious types say your body is no longer your own as you did and I don't care for that viewpoint. I'm 100% monogamous, but my body is mine to do with as I please, it is not my spouses.

 

I have heard people with your persuasion suggest that married spouses cannot masturbate and other similarly ridiculous notions that go in line with this 'Your body is not your own anymore' stuff.

 

Not for me, I've never stepped foot in a church outside of weddings and funerals my whole life and I never will.

Do you know that Bible also teach "husband should love wife as his own body"? "eagerly love each other, and satisfy each other's need"?

[lonelybird]

What do you think suggests a particular bias in that survey? I'm not saying there isn't, but I'm keen to hear your thoughts.

 

Catholics have always made up their own traditions and put them on equal (sometimes greater) footing than Biblical teachings, so this doesn't exactly surprise me any more than their recent announcement that parts of Genesis aren't to be taken literally (I happen to agree with them on that one). What I found very interesting is that the trend included the more fundamentalist "What God has joined, let no man separate..." crowd as well.

 

This is my own speculation, but there are probably a significant amount of broken marriages in that camp that don't end in divorce because of the religious stigma surrounding it, so the proportion of unsuccessful marriages is probably even higher still. Of course the same goes for the secular groups as well, but in that case there would be less incentive to cling to a doomed marriage.

 

For these reasons I find little merit in the idea that God is a necessary or even beneficial basis for marriage. It comes down to the commitment and the compatibility of the two individuals involved, and very little else.

 

Cheers,

D.

You are definately Moai

[disgracian]

I presume that is a flippant comment, lonelybird. It is certainly a very pointless post.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I am not Moai either.

[lonelybird]

I presume that is a flippant comment, lonelybird. It is certainly a very pointless post.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I am not Moai either.

whatever

 

Cheers

L

[riobikini]

re:

 

LonelyBird: " God's advice is much better and wiser than human's, so....I stop asking for people's

 

...my experience won't prevent me to offer advices to others and help people

I don't rely on myself, i rely on Holy Spirit"

 

 

(Smile)

 

O.K. -it gives me no specific pleasure to know that I was right -and that you were -are- the orginal "LonelyBird" from about a year or so ago, who I responded to about your relationship problem.

 

But I am curious about your statements above, and the perspective you appear to have regarding just this *one* thing I cannot seem to get my mind around...which is this:

 

If you truly believe that listening to the advice of other, helpful, well-intentioned people is not a good thing for *yourself* -why, oh, why then- would you believe that they would find it perfectly acceptable to listen to *your* good advice -with or without the religious bent applied?

 

As I said -I am only quietly, studiously curious.

 

-Rio

[disgracian]

Judging from my own recent experience, I wouldn't count on a very mature response, Rio.

 

Accusations of ghosting, followed by a very ungracious "whatever" throwaway.

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

re:

 

 

 

 

(Smile)

 

O.K. -it gives me no specific pleasure to know that I was right -and that you were -are- the orginal "LonelyBird" from about a year or so ago, who I responded to about your relationship problem.

 

But I am curious about your statements above, and the perspective you appear to have regarding just this *one* thing I cannot seem to get my mind around...which is this:

 

If you truly believe that listening to the advice of other, helpful, well-intentioned people is not a good thing for *yourself* -why, oh, why then- would you believe that they would find it perfectly acceptable to listen to *your* good advice -with or without the religious bent applied?

 

As I said -I am only quietly, studiously curious.

 

-Rio

I didn't say well-intentioned people is not good for me, I just said God's advices is much wiser, and ultimate right. no one human being can say her or his advice is ULTIMATE right. Human beings always cloud their judgement and mind with their carnal reasoning and own experiences, not good thing. And listen to people or God, it is a personal thing, I choose to listen to God.

 

I didn't push my advices to people. just like others, I post my thought, and most of time, they came from Holy Spirit who genuinly wants to help people, and take it or leave it all depend on people who listen, again, it is their choice, not mine. none of yours as well.

[lonelybird]

Judging from my own recent experience, I wouldn't count on a very mature response, Rio.

 

Accusations of ghosting, followed by a very ungracious "whatever" throwaway.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Are you a old member? I think I know who you are

[quankanne]

hey, D, you can always pop out from behind the screen and yell "boo!" to satisfy the ghostly urge :D

 

What do you think suggests a particular bias in that survey? I'm not saying there isn't, but I'm keen to hear your thoughts.

 

I'm happy to share them – I don't think there is a survey in existence that isn't designed to elicit certain information to make a certain point. Questions can be pitched a certain way so that the what the person surveyed truly believes isn't included among the answers, and that person tries to generalize their answers to "fit" the survey. I think this is something that was pointed out in one of my college classes, about writing unbiased reports that reflected no slanted views or suggested things to the readers ...

[disgracian]

Questions can indeed be phrased a certain way to influence the response, I agree. Unless we know something about how this particular survey was administered and collected, we can't know how much bias there was, or even which way it went.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

PS - lonelybird, I'm not an old member so you definitely don't know who I am. Give the conspiracy theories away.