Marriage is a tool for spiritual growth

[riobikini]

re:

 

LonelyBird: " God's advices is much wiser, and ultimate right.."

 

Just to temper all my future posts in this thread....maybe, I need to say this first:

 

I always give credit for what is (being, or might be) implied or meant whenever anyone is struggling to communicate using a different language than their native one -and try to read between the lines and broken english to get at least, a fair idea of what they might be trying to say.

 

That being said....I think I'm seeing what you're trying to say, here, LB -except that (in my own personal beliefs regarding the spiritual realm) I view the whole idea of "God" in a much broader way than you depict.

 

And I'm not initiating a debate about who's God is bigger (Smile) -I'm just letting you know that my ideas and concepts about God and spiritual things are probably not the "normal" fare for most people munching on the buffet table of God hor d'ouevres, God entrées, and God desert cups.

 

I have a whopping big picture of God stuff -and tho' it's stunning- it allows me to live in perfect peace and contentment, without all that conflict and scripture-pushing, and constant every-other-thought verbal God acknowledgment, display, and demonstration.

 

It's not meek God stuff -but it's not *loud*, abrasive, negative-though-masked-by-the-positive, nor condemning.

 

I realize it is also *not truly* my job to convince the whole world (everyone I meet) that my views are right, and the "Way".

 

But if I truly believe what I say I believe, I must *live* it, as best as I can.

 

And it must be genuinely *kind*, respectful of others, no matter where they happen to be in their spiritual knowledge at the time I encounter them, and that my approach should be one that is created completely from display, until *asked* about it.

 

Generally, folks can be attracted to everything from a lifestyle to a religion by just seeing how well it works for someone else; how well someone else is handling problems, overcoming them, or dealing with the mundane everyday stuff we all encounter.

 

And not to mention how *happy* the person is -and how well-spoken and educated they are about the beliefs they have.

 

Communication of any belief is key -and it's not always *verbal*.

 

Now -to comment on the statement I quoted from you, above.

 

God -in any sense of "God"- works through *people*.

 

People are the main tool of focus for anything God-related -and you simply *can't* get around having to accept that at least, some advice will be presented through a human being.

 

Human beings -according to the fundamentals of just about any religion you can name- was the channel, or vessel, or medium, or tool used;some say appointed, or chosen...see the references in your own Bible to God choosing a human body for Himself in a being known as "Jesus" to convey a picture of how God stuff was supposed to be played out in the human life.

 

And despite I'm using the Bible to make my point on *this* subject, it fails miserably to make the point entirely, about how I personally believe anyone's approach should be, in order to make God stuff attractive to people.

 

Personally, I think human beings were perfectly capable of tampering with just about anything they liked concerning God stuff -including the well-known, well-beloved, and widely-accepted Bible as it has been presented and marketed throughout the world.

 

And did.

 

Which means to me, that the whole idea of religion, spiritual things, and God stuff still (as always, and should be) falls right into the lap of each individual to concern him/herself with, personally develop, and find to each his own contentment with.

 

Back to square One:

 

You -the individual whom it most concerns, who's happiness, growth, thoughts, and quality of life are all interdependent on a God pursuit to find meaning and reason, like a panting hound on a rabbit chase for a relatively short stint, until we are forced to give up the chase, slow down and finally, decay.

 

(Smile)

 

Oh -the "decaying" part: similar to most religions, I think that's where we do, probably, find out just how close we were to being on the right track with knowing about God stuff.

 

Our level of contentment in life -before the decay (our death)- may have been a clue that we may have found enough God to live peacefully, but I am not at all convinced that there is not more to know that can only be known after our bodies have stopped breathing and, as is traditionally thought, "given up the ghost": our spiritual being.

 

The term "spiritual being" in this context: the God that's in us (ever hear someone say they felt as if they were being lead by their "inner" power?); the energy of God that lives there, has always been there; the part that acknowleges our greater heritage in connection with God, even in these realtively small containers called bodies.

 

Thus, some people's reference to "the God in you" concept, because that's exactly what it is -what *we* are -tiny containers for God-energy: a pretty good sign we belong to something greater.

 

In a recent conversation with my youngest son, Tony -the whole subject of what I believe was asked of me.

 

"I really want to know what you believe", he said, "I've listened to you before, when I was younger, but now I'm remembering some of what you said, and it's beginning to make sense to me."

 

Tony had already delved in as many of the beliefs in various religions as he could -and he was still looking.

 

All of them seemed to have a "catch", or so many unanswered questions, so many contradictions, and inconsistencies that he was frustrated, and still found himself *without* his own personal belief.

 

But he was asking me.

 

And that's how you get the information to add to your cache of ideas -and in the end- make your own decision.

 

I thought a moment and -choosing to talk as if I was explaining something to a small child (he is 29) I began to convey my personal understanding (up to this point in my life, as you/I are always adding to our info) in the simplest terms I could.

 

And in a nutshell -to you, as well- here is what I said to him:

 

You and I are present to be happy.

 

To give and receive the one thing that makes life happy: love.

 

The giving and getting part is more difficult than it seems.

 

You have to be in a state of mind to give it and to get it.

 

There are two kinds of "happy": good happy and bad happy; with "good happy", your life is content, your pursuit less stressful; with "bad happy", your pursuit leads downward in a spiral of discontent.

 

You know without being told which pursuit you're on -because you can *feel* it.

 

And others can *see* it.

 

Next, there is this God thing everyone talks about: but God is, in it's most succinct terms, nothing more than energy.

 

Energy that even the genius mankind cannot explain -because (case in point) he cannot explain the phenomenon of electricity to this very day.

 

Electricity is derived from that unexplainable energy that we keep referring to as "God".

 

That energy is in everything; everything is made up of that energy; that energy causes your heart to beat with those tiny electrical impulses you don't even have to command to get them to work; and the most knowledge we have about our physiology, the universe and everything in it focuses on the closest we can come to *knowing* about even *ourselves* is a thing called the atom.

 

Know anything smaller -or more defining?

 

Except for the energy that cannot be explained.

 

That's God.

 

Call it whatever you will -but you're made up of it, saturated with it, you live in an environment that's made of it, and you breathe it, and eat it.

 

You even *think* because of it.

 

And you certainly *feel* because of it.

 

You love because of it.

 

The only physical thing keeping you from the closest you can be with it (God) is your body (a decaying process, ever in progress) right up until the crossing-over point, death.

 

So your body- the only barrier between you and God -representing something referred to as a "veil" (the casing, look at your own personal energy contained in you like a sausage wrapped in casing, if you're missing the point...Smile..) must die in order for there to be nothing between you and this God -this energy.

 

And then where does the energy (your identical image to God encased inside you that people call the "spirit") go?

 

Right back to God.

 

You become rejoined -without any barrier- to the God that *is* the universe, and the spark of the universe -and beyond.

 

Because wherever God is -you are there.

 

No barriers -and there you are connected to *all* the energy -all the God- you can possibly be -and *that*, my friend, is what they really mean when they say you will know *everything* that ever was or ever will be.

 

You'll see -know- what you could have done in your life (if you had recognized all the power you really possessed through your heritage and connection with God) and all the ways things could have been different for you while your small "allotment" of spirit was tucked inside that small casing called a "body", and *how* you were really *meant* to live.

 

Think you have no power right now?

 

Think about what -who- you're connected to, despite the barrier, even *now*.

 

Does any of this sound familiar?

 

Does any of it seem to parallel with Bible and other religions?

 

I believe that's because all these religions that we banter about and argue about down here have always been purposely misdirected, changed, (in plain terms, doctored up) to be used to infuse legal, political, and governmental control of people through a particular, well-marketed concept of God -certain obvious leverage.

 

And I believe that human beings in their natural pursuit of happiness -and by only skimming over the first batch of religious theory- adopted those rules and supporting religious beliefs to feel secure.

 

Without consulting their very own heart and mind, first.

 

So we have the Bible.

 

We have the Koran.

 

We have Buddha and Jesus and a myriad of others who seem -at first- to have the answer our God-energy inside -the spirit that enables us- is seeking.

 

But the present pursuit is something that never ends until the separation from body when you are returned to your source.

 

Hope my answer to my son has not confused anyone -hopefully, it makes some sense to at least, a few of you.

 

And good luck in *your* individual pursuit of your idea of God.

 

No matter how much of God you find -or what you choose to call Him- it (He) is infinitely powerful -and *you* are connected.

 

-Rio

[lonelybird]

It comes down to the commitment and the compatibility of the two individuals involved, and very little else.

 

Cheers,

D.

What do you think the *compatibility* come from? God made that!

After chemical stage pass, what make couples stay together? deep spiritual connection, and God has anything to do with spiritual relm.

You didn't think that YOU found the dream girl, do you? It is really God deliver one to you. you have to be humble enough to find this out:)

[disgracian]

What do you think the *compatibility* come from? God made that!

Inane drivel. The compatibility arises due to the personalities and experiences of both the people involved. Having similar interests and philosophies is one part of compatibility between humans, having differences that complement each other is another. Two people who are assertive and stubborn in their opinions will not likely be compatible if their opinions differ. One person who is organised and another who is laid back can also be a good combination when one compensates for the other. This is very basic stuff. No appeal to god is required, and the notion that god "made" this is utterly nonsensical.

After chemical stage pass, what make couples stay together? deep spiritual connection, and God has anything to do with spiritual relm.

Empathy, and a whole host of emotional and psychological factors. Humans are gregarious creatures and, except in rare circumstances, abhor solitude. In terms of marriage, two people choose to become mutually dependent on each other for their emotional, physical, psychological, financial needs. They also tend to start families.

You didn't think that YOU found the dream girl, do you? It is really God deliver one to you. you have to be humble enough to find this out:)

Of course I did. We found each other entirely by ourselves, struck up a friendship and later started flirting. I moved town to be closer, and now we're married. Neither of us were "delivered" to the other in any sense; that implies a breach of our free will which according to Christianity is something god doesn't do. We are adults with minds that function and we made our own choices for our own reasons.

 

Congratulations, you've successfully contradicted your own beliefs. Now you have to be humble enough to admit you were wrong.

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

Two people who are assertive and stubborn in their opinions will not likely be compatible if their opinions differ.

 

 

No appeal to god is required, and the notion that god "made" this is utterly nonsensical.

 

How do you know about God didn't do it in those happy couple's marriage? aren't you stubborn? oh, and you aren't like a gentlemen

[disgracian]

Because, according to Christian folklore, god doesn't force himself on people; people have to choose to come to god. Therefore it's reasonable to conclude that god doesn't act on behalf of an atheist couple who don't believe in god, care about god, nor want god in their marriage.

 

So, given that secular marriages have a better success rate than Christian marriages, one is forced to concede two crucial points:

 

1. Secular marriages work without god's help roughly 80% of the time.

2. Christian marriages fail despite god's help roughly 25% of the time.

 

There's no appreciable difference between two groups that have very different approaches when it comes to marriage. Ergo, the difference (in this case god) is moot in the grand scheme of things. If anything it hinders the prospect of a successful marriage.

 

The only way you can maintain your current beliefs is to do any/all of the following:

 

1. Deny the reality of beautiful, loving, caring secular marriages and instead pretend that they are carnal, selfish and meaningless, thus committing wilful self-deception.

2. Decry the survey results as biased, even though you have no knowledge of their methods or biases (if any).

4. Only consider the successful Christian marriages whild dismissing any Christian marriages that failed, or shift the goalposts and deny they had god's blessing in the first place.

5. Continue to rationalise the contradiction of god blessing secular marriages against the will of the married couple, while maintaining that humans have free will to choose or reject god.

 

And to answer your final question, I don't so much consider myself stubborn as I consider myself correct. I'm willing to abandon my position if you can demonstrate that it is false in any way.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Jeffrey]

Aren't like a gentlemen? So, is your snarky attitude based on your love of your god or something you came up with yourself?

 

It's best to keep god in the houses of worship it belongs, keep to feeding the homeless and let people worry about their own marriages and relationships, if they want god involved, they'll go to the church.

 

 

How do you know about God didn't do it in those happy couple's marriage? aren't you stubborn? oh, and you aren't like a gentlemen

[lonelybird]

Romans 8:5

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's las--indeed it cannot, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God

[sb129]

When married, two becomes one. Not, "two persons" in one.

 

Moose, I am sorry, but I have to disagree with this. I am sure most people will agree that it is important to retain ones own identity (to a point).

 

the reasons for the failures of all these marriages without knowing the circumstances behind any of them. It seems to me as though you are just making it up as you go along.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Welcome to LBs posts D. I have enjoyed reading yours. Its nice to have some more coherent rational thinkers on board. You too Jeffery.

(No insult to the believers intended, there are some of you who I respect very much despite our differences in opinion, you know who you are!)

 

 

What do you think the *compatibility* come from? God made that!

After chemical stage pass, what make couples stay together? deep spiritual connection, and God has anything to do with spiritual relm.

You didn't think that YOU found the dream girl, do you? It is really God deliver one to you. you have to be humble enough to find this out

 

LB, as you know, MY BF would be HORRIFIED to hear this, as he is as staunch an atheist as Moai.

 

And you know I don't believe either.

 

I tend to stay away from discussions about marriage, because I have never BEEN married, and feel it would be hypocritical to comment.

I am, however, in a very loving relationship with a man who I hope will one day become my husband. There is NO room for god at all in our relationship, and we are blissfully happy. Right now, our R has integrity, trust, fidelity, honesty, love, desire (!!) and friendship. I hope it stays that way.

 

Lonelybird, I can't believe that as a SINGLE woman, you feel its is absolutely fine to comment on other peoples marriages and beliefs with NO sense of IRONY at all.

 

what is wrong with this picture?

[lonelybird]

Lonelybird, I can't believe that as a SINGLE woman, you feel its is absolutely fine to comment on other peoples marriages and beliefs with NO sense of IRONY at all.

 

what is wrong with this picture?

Yep, Bible teach about marriage no matter I am single or not. oh, and Holy Spirit came from God knows ALL. Although Holy Spirit teach me thing a little by little. But I know that God takes mariage vow very seriously, and infidility is wrong. I speak what Holy Spirit told me. but you don't believe, it's ok, I didn't force anybody, but I have right to post, right?

[sb129]

I wasn't debating your right to post. Of course you have a right to post.

Some of your posts are thoughtful and give good advice.

 

But if you want to be taken seriously, preaching about marriage when you have no personal experience of it is not going to win you any votes at all.

 

Most people on here whether they are believers or not rely on their personal experiences and those of others to give and receive advice.

 

I am not in any better position than you to give advice about marriage, as I am not married, but I am in a happy faithful relationship that has nothing to do with god, so that in itself negates your theory. I don't have to believe in god to grow as a person, and i don't have to believe in god to believe infidelity is wrong.

 

LB, don't turn into Lovehurts. You are in danger of doing so.

[lonelybird]

I wasn't debating your right to post. Of course you have a right to post.

Some of your posts are thoughtful and give good advice.

 

But if you want to be taken seriously, preaching about marriage when you have no personal experience of it is not going to win you any votes at all.

 

Most people on here whether they are believers or not rely on their personal experiences and those of others to give and receive advice.

 

I am not in any better position than you to give advice about marriage, as I am not married, but I am in a happy faithful relationship that has nothing to do with god, so that in itself negates your theory. I don't have to believe in god to grow as a person, and i don't have to believe in god to believe infidelity is wrong.

 

LB, don't turn into Lovehurts. You are in danger of doing so.

Yeah, so I won't touch some areas I don't experienced or Holy Spirit didn't tell me. But when I read the cheating post, then I thought maybe they had reason to cheat because they are not happy in their marriage. then at the moment Holy Spirit rebuked me, then I know God takes vows seriously, and people should work out their marriage "even in tough times". and God is dealing with me about marriage thing.

so I wrote about it.

Speak of Lovehurts, she is a genuine person and brave, speak of truth. I miss her.

Glad you found your loving bf

[sb129]

OK, well glad you are working it out.

 

Just wanted to let you know that some of the good advice you give gets eclipsed by all the spiritual stuff.

 

I know its very important to you and I respect that, but some people may miss what you are trying to say if you over-emphasise it.

[Ripples]

You are definately Moai

Disgracian is a stone statue? He's got amazing computer skills for an inanimate object.

 

I didn't push my advices to people. just like others, I post my thought, and most of time, they came from Holy Spirit who genuinly wants to help people, and take it or leave it all depend on people who listen, again, it is their choice, not mine. none of yours as well.

 

So prefix your statements with "I believe" rather than stating them as incontroversiable truths for everyone.

[sb129]

Disgracian is a stone statue? He's got amazing computer skills for an inanimate object.

 

Moai is also Loveshacks resident atheist guru. He has a pic of the Easter Island moai as his avatar.

 

His posts are great!

[Ripples]

Ahhhhh! I see! Was having blonde moment. Cheers SB

[a4a]

 

 

So prefix your statements with "I believe" rather than stating them as incontroversiable truths for everyone.

 

That would force her to take on the responsibilty of the statements as her own person, not as a "tool" of god as she states she is.

 

Using this sort of thinking one can evade taking personal responsibility in many aspects of life.

 

I think I will try this myself today.

 

god tells me that I need to sit on my butt and eat bon bons today.

 

And as for having god meddle in my marriage...... more than likely it is not happening, probably satan instead.

[Ripples]

That would force her to take on the responsibilty of the statements as her own person, not as a "tool" of god as she states she is.

 

Using this sort of thinking one can evade taking personal responsibility in many aspects of life.

Yep, that's it. Bit like fundamentalist Muslims... oh wait... exactly like.

[lonelybird]

Yep, that's it. Bit like fundamentalist Muslims... oh wait... exactly like.

which part is like fundamentalist Muslims?

[lonelybird]

 

Using this sort of thinking one can evade taking personal responsibility in many aspects of life.

 

when do you think I don't want to take responsibility?

Please clarify.

[a4a]

when do you think I don't want to take responsibility?

Please clarify.

 

When statements are made such as god is dealing with me so I make these posts...... You are still choosing to make the posts/statements.

 

One could say that god/Isis told me to kill my wife. Just because you believe god/Isis told you to do it does not make you any less responsible for choosing to follow those orders.

 

I think it is kinda rude for a person to deem marriages "ungodly= lesser" if religion is not involved. I will hold you responsible for that statement not your god if you make it in the name of your god/deity.

 

Overall, the holier than thou attitude is not pleasant at all...... again I do not blame your god or Thor for that matter for your choice to be judgemental and basically rude with your statements that I find rather offensive.

 

Just as I do not blame god for the nasty things that Jerry Falwell spewed. He was just a hate filled narrow minded man, that did hurt many people with his vocal spewing. However he claimed to be doing god's work. So he is not responsible is he?

[lonelybird]

 

Overall, the holier than thou attitude is not pleasant at all...... again I do not blame your god or Thor for that matter for your choice to be judgemental and basically rude with your statements that I find rather offensive.

 

Which post? Can you quote it here?

[lonelybird]

One could say that god/Isis told me to kill my wife. Just because you believe god/Isis told you to do it does not make you any less responsible for choosing to follow those orders.

 

NO, Holy Spirit is gentle, compassionate, loving, never tell me that. in fact, when I act a little bit out of line to treat others, Holy Spirit rebuke me. What HE taught me is "doing good works to others", tell "commandments of God"

[a4a]

NO, Holy Spirit is gentle, compassionate, loving, never tell me that. in fact, when I act a little bit out of line to treat others, Holy Spirit rebuke me. What HE taught me is "doing good works to others", tell "commandments of God"

 

Well understand this.........

 

your good works are not good works to all that you tell.

 

some of us want nothing to do with the commandments of your god

 

some of us will hold you personally responsible when you make offensive remarks in the name of your god.

 

you choose to hurt those that are not wanting your comments.

 

However I will assume that you probably don't care who you hurt because you are doing your god's work?????

[lonelybird]

For all the things you all accuse me, please quote and show evidence, so I can have self-check?

[lonelybird]

 

you choose to hurt those that are not wanting your comments.

 

However I will assume that you probably don't care who you hurt because you are doing your god's work?????

Please show me the post I hurt others.