She Loves but is not "In Love" with me...is she seeking an unrealistic ideal? (long)

[jstockton]

Okay, I've got a lot to write in the next few days to ask you all, but I wanted to get some feedback from everyone since it's important to me to understand others' perspective on what I'm facing... so bear with me.

 

To start, what do you think of this scenario? The woman I love and have been with for 3 years (not married) has hit me with the "I love you but I'm not in love" line, and though I know she really does love and care about me, she is known for having commitment issues, and seeks someone who can give her the romantic rush forever.

 

Due to this, her pattern, uncovered by her, our therapist, her exes, and I, is one of dating good boyfriends for 6 months to a year until they lose their novelty and euphoria factor, and dumping them for the romance reason. Once the novelty and euphoria subside she loses her attraction/passion for the other person. We've already seen a therapist who identified her commitment issues and the fact that what she seeks, and falls in love with, is a romantic ideal, an idealized fantasy - when the point is reached in the relationship where she realizes that there is always a real person with good and bad traits (e.g. not an ideal) behind the fantasy, the romance/fantasy subsides along with her attraction to the person, and she bails to go look for that euphoria and rush from a new relationship.

 

It is a pattern repeated in the past with good and not so good mates, and now with me, the person she acknowledges is the only person she could see actually being with in the long term as a life mate. She said that ours was the longest and best, most solid relationship she's ever had. Essentially she has said that the relationship works well in everything important except for that one thing - she loves, but is no longer "in love" with me, the romantic rush we initially had is gone, and is not attracted to me in a passionate or sexual way anymore. For the last half of our relationship I was always the one who wanted to be passionate, but she never felt the urge.. I was always the one losing myself in her when we kissed, she was always the first to pull back or be self conscious whether it was a naughty kiss or not(she was not before).

 

I have never cheated on or abused her. Her father, however, was abusive when she was growing up, and she has been with several men who have cheated on her. She has vowed not to ever be like her mom, who stayed "trapped" in a marriage with an abusive man (here you see the reason for the commitment issues). She has admitted that she always manages to find a reason to end a relationship around 6 months to a year, she starts to get that itch for a new romance since the one she's in invariably wanes in its ability to satisfy her romantically. She is surprised, however, that we lasted for so long..but she found herself unsatisfied in the romance department around 1 1/2 to 2 years into our nearly 3 year relationship.

 

Things are very complicated right now as she is trying to sort out her feelings since she and her friends all know that she and I have the best relationship she has ever had, and we both love each other greatly, and work so well on an everyday communication and emotional level.... and yet because the euphoria of new romance has faded over the last 3 years she has decided that we should break up because she feels that the right person for her should make her feel romantic euphoria forever, and that if I were the one, she should still feel the same euphoria as when we initially dated. I have to also acknowlege that there was a rough period for a year when we were both out of work, things were tight, and I wasnt as romantic as I could have been.. however this gave her inclinations wings, as one of the things she brought up back then on the issue was, "we don't seem to go out much anymore." Keep in mind that when money was freer we went out all the time...hard to do when you're just scraping by. When offered this reason she seemed stymied since she realized it was true but it always seemed that she was looking for reasons to feel that I "could not satisfy her romantic needs" just like the rest of her boyfriends that she's had.

 

Even more complicated, is that she has an ex who she broke up with, who is long distance, who she dated over a long distance relationship for a while in the past, but only saw a few days a month - never spent any substantial time with him.. he still holds a torch for her, and she has decided that she has to resolve what was apparently unresolved in that relationship, in order to be able to understand what to do and if she is able to commit to me or not. Problem is that by going back to the exact same long distance relationship she was in long ago, the exact same issues exist, and the exact same "highlight reel" factor exists. That is to say, she does not have to deal with or figure out what the person is like past the "honeymoon phase" because she only sees him occasionally and communicates via phone or email - this can go without spoiling her romantic ideal.... and seems her easiest fallback position since even she has admitted that this person is less suitable as a soulmate and that rekindling the relationship would probably not resolve anything.

 

Previously, about a week ago she DID finally tell this ex that they needed to break things off for good (we had been broken up but still housemates/friends for about 6 mo. at that point), something that she, our therapist, and I all acknowledged might be necessary for her to resolve the fact that he (and her unwillingness to resolve the issue of Him) was only harmful to our relationship and her ability to have any fruitful relationships with anyone. She talked to me about it and let me know that she had ended it, and the reasons why (the same issues were still there, and it would be unproductive to date him long-distance again). A day and a half later, (the day after she felt sad and lonely due to it) she let me know over dinner at a restaurant that she had completely changed her mind and decided to work things out with him again.. She said that she realized that it felt really bad/wrong to have broken it off, and that she was only cutting him off to make me happy because she cares so much about me. She felt that she was doing it for the wrong reasons.

 

Keep in mind she has mentioned in the past the classic lines "People say you should take the time to be alone and love yourself, confront your issues while being alone, etc.... Why? Why should I be alone? There's plenty of people in this world. I don't like being alone, I don't see anything wrong with that." And... "I always found that the best way to get over one relationship is to get right into another." Some of these things lead me to believe that she is really confused and does not see the pattern in which her inner machinations drive her - she knows her tendencies, and knows the pieces add up ...she just doesnt like what they add up to (her issues contribute to her instability in relationships).

 

There is plenty more, a fine mess, but I will post more tomorrow. What are peoples thoughts so far? I love her a lot and I have been very patient and understanding.. but she has a lot of issues, mostly caused by not-so-great parents, that are at the root of all of this. I am willing to give her the space to find out what she needs and if I am the one for her, but at the same time I feel like she gets to have her cake and eat it too - right now I provide the everyday real parts of the relationship she loves me for (companionship, caring, love, relating, sharing, support, etc.) without her having to commit to a boyfriend (e.g. I am her "friend" now) and she gets the fantasy and "in love" romance from the long distance ex she has picked things up with again. I just dont feel that there's anything to incentivize her to make a decision since this situation gives her everything she needs without needing to give the commitment she fears, or risk ruining the romantic ideal she seeks.

 

I feel a real inequity here because our ability to love is different - I have loved her and am still in love with her, even after the novelty/euphoria period wore off, because even though her baggage has been tough at times, I deal with it and take it on gladly since it is a part of her.. the good and the bad of the real-life person who I love. She seemingly can only love someone so much because she cannot remain in love with a person who doesn't fit her romantic ideal...and thus it seems like she cannot *fully* love anyone because she is in love with the fantasy ideal more than the actual real-life person who is always attached to it who has good and bad parts just like she does. Maybe it's a bitter observation, I don't know.

 

Confusing and really painful for me to say the least.

[mewbomb]

I think your right about the ideal romance and novelty thing. Although... what she tells you about her ex... i dont know....

 

if a girlfriend of mine started talking about being "this" or "that" about him... I would take that as a huge sign... Do you want some girl who is going to use you? Cause that is what will happen...

 

My advice...try and walk away for awhile... try and let her miss you. Its hard... and if you read my post... im in the middle of it...

Now its no phone..email...stop by...nothing.

 

If she doesn't call sooner or later...im going to move on...

Whats yer age?

 

My post is below:::::

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t19251/

[jstockton]

I'm 31, she's 29.

[Tolkien]

If she thinks she can keep this fantasy going with "the one" then she is going to be in for a huge shock when she gets married, and realizes the euphoria drops off even more then it does over the course of a relationship.

 

I'm glad you have gone to therapy, it obviously helped (you lasted the longest). But she needs to keep going. She will never find "the one" without realizing the euphoria is going to die, and she solves her problem about that.

 

I think once she solves that problem, she will be ready to think about marriage.

[mewbomb]

I like your post tolkien, its all about them getting over this "ideal" thing.

 

I personally think that many girls have this problem. Including mine. Who knows... maybe they will never get over it and get married. For their sake i hope not.

 

either way its killing my relationship!!!!

 

Im so pissed about this whole thing. Its friday and I know she will be going out tonight. What am i supposed to think? Oh..she won't meet anyone..bla blah blah...

 

It really hurts to think about it... but nothing i can do.. I want to contact but will not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Actually i really hope she meets someone and realizes what she lost! Who knows if that will happen, but if it does, good!!!

 

Nothing i can do about it now!

[jstockton]

Thanks for the words everyone.. here's other insights to add that probably just reinforce what several of you have already said..

 

Something I forgot, we are not in therapy anymore. The co-pays were getting expensive, actually under my plan it was $20 each per visit, and we were both going weekly.

 

To her, it was too expensive to go every week. I said, okay, we'll go every other week. That was still expensive, and she felt that we wouldnt get real benefit from going only twice a month. I told her that the therapist said it was ok for us to come less frequently since a lot had been uncovered and was on the table already, and that she and I needed to take more time on our own to really figure out what to do with things. Nevertheless, her reply to this is that it was still too expensive, and I said "yes, but we spend money on other things as well, and this is important - if working on us isnt worth spending money on, WHAT is?" She said, well you can keep going if you want to, I don't see any further benefit from it. Her opinion is that therapists and psychologists don't really help much.

 

In the beginning she did not feel comfortable with the therapist we were referred to, as she did not have a "professional-looking" office and was casual in manner and dress. Additionally this therapist's main specialty was in addiction and grief, but had done some amount of relationship counseling. Seeing where her objections were going, I told her, well let's just go find a different one, she said she would stick it out. This leads up to the end of this particular vignette, where she said that she didnt feel that this counselor was helping her, that it wasnt worth the money to keep going, and that therapy wasnt going to help her. Why? Because, "There's nothing wrong with me. There isnt. So what if I can't commit? People should just be free to be the way they are, maybe I'm just meant to be alone." Quite interesting of a comment given that initially way back when we talked about getting some counseling she said "I think everyone should get some sort of counseling or therapy - we all have our problems to work on."

 

My take is probably the same as others' - she was subconsciously looking for any reason to stop counseling because it was making her face some unpleasant things about herself and her behavior that she is afraid to face or change. Ironically she makes a point of saying that she is all about "change and growth", however my view is that from the chaos that has always surrounded her in love and vocation, she is all about always changing everything around her, so that she herself does not actually need to change.

 

Just the other night on the subject of her addiction to the euphoria she admitted that it was true on the surface what I and the therapist observed, but that it was taken to the extreme, she gets into relationships for who people are (ours started as friendship), and she is in them for often up to a year - to her this is her justification that she is not addicted to romantic euphoria, a "true" addict would bounce around after a time span of only a few months. Of course it's a matter of degrees, in her case it usually takes a year but that doesnt mean that it isn't a significant factor (given that it seems to be the common relationship-killer in all of her relationships). As i said, she knows the pieces add up, she just doesnt like what they add up to. I offered that it might be important to work on or it has the chance of hurting the ex she is picking things up with again, as well. Pushing the subject only gets her more angry and insecure so I am getting the point that you cant change a mind that's made up already. In fact her response was to ask me why I was so interested in analyzing her inner workings in regards to the ex, what it had to do with me and her. That sort of defensiveness helped me understand some of the futility of reason in this situation.

 

Seeing as how we're best friends, and I'm pretty much her only close friend in town, it's going to be hard to extricate my heart from the situation. I'm not sure if I can handle booting her out of our place completely though she understands and is willing to move out if it helps my pain. I've already started pulling back emotionally, I should have done it months ago when she broke it off to get space.. I guess I took it as "space" and not "it's over for me" thus I'm going thru some of the mourning I should have gone through back then. Tough road ahead.

[Dragonflys]

Oh what an awful situation!!

 

I couldn't even read all your post, it was too long and I got the drift pretty quick. She's not in love with you. First up I'll tell you one thing, its not you..how much romance you give, the time for her you give, has nothing to do with this. It is her. You sound like a very considerate person who is in a very tough situation.

 

I don't think she will change. Tony kept telling me this when I was mired in it, the chances of her changing are miniscule to zero, and the only way is to back off considerably. That is, break up with her, let her play, and keep your interactions with her regulated. Maybe once a week. Explain to her you do not want to hear anything about anyone else and get on with your life. Consequently, you should get a life and get out there and date. Don't tell or gloat about it to her. By dating you will exhude confidence and she will notice that anyway..and..god forbid...you might meet someone who is also great and will not be such a problem to keep happy.

 

In this world there are people of all different types. Some want a solid relationship without drama, and others want the drama, newness and 'fun' that comes with lots of dating. Read a book on innate personality types, and you will see that people innately fit these predispositions.

 

Take it from me, you need a woman in your life that will simply feel it for you and not change. You don't need this drama and pain. Don't wait for her to change, and if you are around her she NEVER will. Not in 20, 30, 40 years.

 

You will die a sad, lonely man who missed out on life and she will still be looking for dates.

 

Oliver

 

P.S One more thing..I find your name familiar. Did you post about this woman a year or two ago either on the old Loveshack or iVillage?..if so, its been wayyy too long man..

[Dragonflys]

I posted about my situation nearly 3 years ago. Back then she was the only woman in my life and all the symptoms were the same as yours. After breaking it off with her I have had plenty of dating opportunities with women who find and treat me much better and I have developed much more confidence in myself. I realise in hindsight there are equally or more wonderful women out there who want to be with me.

 

And you know what?..that woman is still around here at work. In fact I saw her today. Its been a long time but her feelings of me have not rebounded in any way since, she has proven to me that she was very sure of herself and that breaking up with her was the best thing for me. Can you imagine if I was still chasing after her!!!!....I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

 

Oliver

[yes]

I also tend to think that if she's not sure after 3 years with you, she'll never be sure. Considering Oliver has been in your situation, it's prolly wise to listen to him.

 

 

Oliver, could you recommend a book on innate personalities by any chance?

 

Thanks,

-yes

[Dragonflys]

Try a book by David Keirsey called 'Please Understand me'

 

A more readable book for beginners on the same subject area is a book called "color code' by Dr Taylor Hartman

 

Here is the amazon link:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848228/o/qid%3D988249017/sr%3D8-1/ref%3Daps%5Fsr%5Fb%5F1%5F1/104-0409953-1510329

 

Cheers,

 

Oliver

[ewood]

Hey Jstocton,

Dude, I AM YOU right now. I'm going...well went through EXACTLY what you are going through. My exdid the same thing, has very similar traights as yours. It's very long story too but I'll spare you for now.

All I can say is... let her go completely. It's so hard I know. I'm totally still in love with my ex (she was my high school sweetheart). We got back to gether after 20 years. She's been through many failed relationships and one that lasted 8 years to a manipulative, abusive guy. The highs were high and the lows were low. It somehow keeps her intested enough to go on. After finally taking anti-depressants medication for here eating disorder, she was able to move on from him. So you see, my ex has major issues. I think the hardest part for me ( and guys in general) is that she is extremely beautiful. Mix that with low self-esteem and bulimic tedancys and look out.

I feel for you man but run. You sound fairly healthy (like me) but you still should take some time and be single. Allow yourself to get back with yourself and feel OKay. The fact is, she may NEVER be able commit to someone fully. And, thats not your responsibility to try and change for her. She'll always be un-fullfilled and then so will you. Don't enable her to use you. You do have that choice.

Jstockton, man, I really empathize with you. My heart is brutally crushed and she's out with all her new friends I introduced her to having fun. Oh and by the way, she also my ex also told me " I'm almost 100% sure I'm in love with this guy". The guy, being someone I intruduced her to in a scuba diving community. She thinks " this REALLY,REALLY could be the one". Nobody's buying . Her family, my family, my therapist, nobody. But we have to let it go or we are prisoners.

I hope I helped. Hang in there.

Ewood