Best friend - things getting weird

[Driver8]

Background:

 

I am a senior in college. I have been best friends with Anna for about two years now. We knew each other in high school, but we have become increasingly close as the years go by. Anna has a boyfriend (at another school), who she has been dating for about 4 years now, and I know she is happy with him.

 

I have gone through some rough spots with Anna, most notably when I began dating another girl last fall. That relationship was short lived, but during that time, it put an immense strain on my friendship with Anna. The relationship took so much of my time that I would no longer see Anna as often. We would occasionally hang out, and although I never stopped caring for Anna, she was deeply hurt that I could not always be there for her. At the time, I thought she was being selfish. Since then, however, I have come to realize what I did wrong, and we have patched things up. Naturally, it's more complicated than that, but more on that later...

 

We often sleep (literally) together. Generally, it's always been rather platonic, but occasionally we would spoon if we were particularly drunk.

 

It's hard for me to emphasize exactly how close we are, but hopefully that made sense.

 

The situation:

 

After my breakup with the other girl, Anna and I quickly patched things up. Several months later, however, she went through a weird phase. We barely spoke for about two weeks, and she explained to me that she needed time to learn to trust me again. I did not treat her well while dating the other girl, as I was afraid my being so close to her would be a problem in the relationship.

 

Finally we began talking and seeing each other again. Things were getting back to normal. We were sleeping with each other again. However, I noticed something new. She would often put her head on my shoulder, and because I sleep on my back, my arm would naturally fold around her upper back. Over the past few months, this has progressed to sleeping with our arms completely wrapped around each other, or sometimes my arms wrapped around her stomach in a spooning position. I told myself it doesn't really mean anything, as both of us are the touchy-feely type. It's just a way to be close.

 

Just the other night, however, something new again. The best way I can think to describe it is sex without the sex - heavy breathing, holding each other very tightly, hands *almost* everywhere, legs intertwined, blanket on the floor. However, we made no mouth contact with each other, and our clothes remained on. It was something like I have never experienced before. We were both perfectly sober, and it all slowly progressed from spooning early in the night. It ended as I pulled away to pick the blanket off the floor, and we went back to spooning and finally sleeping.

 

Hopefully I haven't bored you too much. I don't know what to make of the situation, and would like you to share your thoughts/comments. I'll post back to clarify if anything was unclear or needs further elaboration.

[bm2092004]

Background:

 

Anna has a boyfriend (at another school), who she has been dating for about 4 years now, and I know she is happy with him.

 

Before I can make an attempt at helping, I do need further details if you don't mind. You said she has had a boyfriend for 4 years. What type of guy is he compared to what type of girl she is? Does she think he's the one? Has any engagement talk arisen? How serious are they?

 

If you could give me a general idea regarding those questions, I might be able to offer some (hopefully helpful) advice.

 

Hope I'll be able to help,

bm2092004

[Driver8]

Before I can make an attempt at helping, I do need further details if you don't mind. You said she has had a boyfriend for 4 years. What type of guy is he compared to what type of girl she is? Does she think he's the one? Has any engagement talk arisen? How serious are they?

 

If you could give me a general idea regarding those questions, I might be able to offer some (hopefully helpful) advice.

 

Hope I'll be able to help,

bm2092004

 

 

Hi, thanks for your interest. She has told me before (though it's been awhile since the topic arose) that she thinks he's the one. They have talked of engagement, but the last I heard is that they want to wait until they are both finished with school to make that sort of decision. They are serious about it. They have great chemistry, and I know they care a great deal for each other. Neither are the type to take their relationship for granted.

 

I hope that's enough to help you out. Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

[bm2092004]

Have you ever talked with her about moving beyond platonic? if so, what did she say?

[Driver8]

We've never talked about it. Even after last night, not a word was said. And despite that, it wouldn't surprise me at all if her reaction to that would be, "are you insane? I have a boyfriend!"

[bm2092004]

I honestly don't know what to tell you. Maybe she just wants to keep some kind of a FWB relationship with you?

[Driver8]

As long as I've known her, I think that would be extremely unlike her. I really don't understand at all, I can't even venture a guess.

[bm2092004]

The only thing that comes to mind would be to ask her if you can talk to her about something, and ask her if you can talk about this without it changing the way she thinks of you. and then just ask her about it.

 

Sorry its not much help,

bm2092004

[Driver8]

Honestly, I don't think talking to her is a good idea. I think she would deny any meaning behind it (as well as the intensity), and I'm afraid of that discussion damaging our friendship. Though there's some chance she could reveal her thoughts on the matter, I don't think it's worth the risk.

[Shizz]

It may very well be that her feelings for you, (It sounds like she was extremely jealous of your ex-girlfriend which itself connates more than platonic feelings.) and your feelings for her are more than just platonic. (Even if just subconciously.)

 

I've known a few people who have loved each other in a very romantic sense, whilst living completely different lifes with different partners.

Its not that they don't love each other, its simply that they're love never really blosomed. Where as with others it did.

 

I can't really think of how you ask her about this though, it might be a sore subject with her.

[Driver8]

I didn't really become so close with her until our second year at college, and by this time she had already been dating the other guy for almost two years. It makes me wonder how things might have turned out otherwise. I've always had very strong feelings for her, but I suppose I never really identified these feelings as being in any way romantic until just lately.

 

It happened again last night. I do not condone cheating in any form, and though we're not doing anything explicitly sexual, I know we've crossed a line. I feel guilty, but at the same time, I find it extremely difficult to stop myself. Somebody is going to get hurt in the end.

[Driver8]

Our pajamas were on, but there was genital to genital grinding last night, and I swear I think she climaxed. She turned over, and after about fifteen minutes of silence, she apologized to me. I explained to her that it wasn't her fault alone, but she insists that is the case. She sat up in bed, silent for about thirty minutes. I hugged her and ensured her that everything would be okay. She slept with her head on my shoulder. She left for work early this morning, apologizing and still in a state of shock, but didn't hesitate to give me a hug before she left.

 

I'm an idiot.

[Yamaha]

There is no way these are platonic feelings. I truely believe she (and you) have strong feelings for each other that are also romantic. Wither you want to do anything about these feelings are the question.

 

I would tell her that the close contact in bed is to much for you. It would be hard to control yourself with so much contact and with someone you care about as well. If you don't want to talk about it to her then you might have to pull away a little so your feelings are no so strong. If it was me I would tell her how I feel but only you can make that decision for yourself.

[BonneKarma]

it's obvious that you both have feelings for eachother beyond friendship... she must be very confused also. I'm sure she loves her boyfriend but with that kind of distance for so many years it's easy to see how the two of you became so close.

 

I also tend to think that the line was crossed when the two of you started sleeping together, period. Does her boyfriend know about that?

 

If you don't talk openly about it now one of several things will happen:

1. you'll have sex and she'll be so consumed by guilt that she distances herself from you completely. End of friendship.

2. you'll have sex and she'll realize she really wants to be with you, but it's never good to start off a relationship with the betrayal of another one

3. she'll admit that while she is attracted to you and the distance with her boyfriend is driving her crazy, she really wants to be with him. At this point you can salvage your friendship but put limits on physical intimacy (no more cuddling)

4. she'll admit she's in love with you and closer to you than she is to her boyfriend, she'll end that relationship leaving you two explore freely!

[Driver8]

She and I talked a long time tonight. I am so relieved to know that we are both on exactly the same page. We do have very strong feelings for each other, but she loves her boyfriend, and I do not want to come between them.

 

I think her biggest worry was the way I might perceive her now, or that I blamed her for everything. I ensured her that I think no less of her and that we were both equally at fault. I was afraid of it changing our friendship. Despite the guilt and the stress, though, I think it's brought us closer together. She asked me if we could still sleep together. I said yes. Am I retarded? Maybe so, but I just need a return to what we had.

 

(I understand the sleeping together thing is not normal for most people. Her boyfriend does not know about it. I still did it occasionally even while I dated other girls, and these girls did not find out about it. Maybe it's wrong, but we're going to keep doing it regardless.)

 

I didn't win the girl, but we've got our whole lives ahead of us, right? Who knows what could happen. In the end, I'm just thankful for what I have.

[Driver8]

Despite our long talk... same thing again last night. No apologies this time, though.

[Driver8]

Third base last night... and she asked me if I loved her. I said yes, she asked since when. I told her as long as I can remember. She told me she loved me.

[Driver8]

I was hoping for a bit more feedback, but I guess there comes a point in every thread's life cycle where interest just dies. Somebody talk to me!

[Trimmer]

I was hoping for a bit more feedback, but I guess there comes a point in every thread's life cycle where interest just dies. Somebody talk to me!

No less interest... I feel that I should apologize that this thread has become a kind of a guilty pleasure; I'm just reading along, waiting to see what will happen next. Incidentally, what base system are you using when you describe third base? (I might as well live vicariously through you...)

 

As far as advice, all I can think of is that while this sounds like a close, deep (and youthful) relationship, it is a relationship that cannot continue in its current form forever. If she does go on to be with her guy, and commits her life to him, the relationship you have with her will certainly be way outside the boundaries of what a typical adult relationship could bear.

 

Therefore, if she continues to build her relationship with him, eventually working towards a life commitment or marriage, while continuing to keep you a secr on the side, that secrecy will not hold forever, and once it comes apart, everyone will come out damaged.

 

In either of these scenarios, you are looking at some kind of an eventual "cooling off" that will be necessary, whether by mutual agreement and commitment to the goal (before some kind of blowup occurs), or the longer you wait, and the riskier it gets, your relationship will eventually be exposed and the issue will be forced somehow, probably with lots of strong and chaotic emotions of all kinds swirling around...

 

Another scenario is that she eventually chooses you over him, and breaks things off with him somehow. Is it possible that her gradually increasing the physical closeness, asking you if you have loved her and for how long, etc. might represent her going through a kind of a decision-making process, exploring her options? And if that happens, are you ready for it? If she came to you tomorrow and said that she had broken it off with him, would you be scared, or pleased?

 

I wonder what her response would be if you asked her: "You remember how you were upset when I was dating someone? With that in mind, and putting yourself in my shoes, how do you think I feel about you and Xxxx <the guy>?" Has that come up at all?

[Yamaha]

Being thankful for what you have will be short lived if you think your arrangement will last forever. When she decides to concentrate on her bf your friendship will be negated to a occasional, "hello, how are you doing?" sort of thing. Your closeness cannot continue unless you both decide to do something about it.

Risk is involved. Is she worth the risk?

[Driver8]

No less interest... I feel that I should apologize that this thread has become a kind of a guilty pleasure; I'm just reading along, waiting to see what will happen next. Incidentally, what base system are you using when you describe third base? (I might as well live vicariously through you...)

 

I use the four F's for the four bases - french, feel, finger (/oral), ****.

 

As far as advice, all I can think of is that while this sounds like a close, deep (and youthful) relationship, it is a relationship that cannot continue in its current form forever. If she does go on to be with her guy, and commits her life to him, the relationship you have with her will certainly be way outside the boundaries of what a typical adult relationship could bear.

 

I am well aware, and I wouldn't expect our relationship to continue even as it were before recent events.

 

Therefore, if she continues to build her relationship with him, eventually working towards a life commitment or marriage, while continuing to keep you a secr on the side, that secrecy will not hold forever, and once it comes apart, everyone will come out damaged.

 

I talked to her a long time on the phone tonight, and I straight up asked her if she were having problems with her boyfriend. She basically told me he wants to marry her, has brought it up to her several times, and she is just not ready for that sort of commitment. It used to be quite the opposite, but she has become increasingly uncomfortable with the thought of marrying right out of college. She also mentioned she was afraid of how it might affect our friendship.

 

In either of these scenarios, you are looking at some kind of an eventual "cooling off" that will be necessary, whether by mutual agreement and commitment to the goal (before some kind of blowup occurs), or the longer you wait, and the riskier it gets, your relationship will eventually be exposed and the issue will be forced somehow, probably with lots of strong and chaotic emotions of all kinds swirling around...

 

Another scenario is that she eventually chooses you over him, and breaks things off with him somehow. Is it possible that her gradually increasing the physical closeness, asking you if you have loved her and for how long, etc. might represent her going through a kind of a decision-making process, exploring her options? And if that happens, are you ready for it? If she came to you tomorrow and said that she had broken it off with him, would you be scared, or pleased?

 

To answer your question, I would be both. I would be pleased that I might finally have my chance, but at the same time, I would be terrified of screwing it up. Reading through the thread, I realized I never really clarified this - for years I have had this crush on her, and I feel absolutely terrible wanting her to break up with her boyfriend. I want her to be happy, but naturally, being human and all, I have my own selfish desires.

 

I wonder what her response would be if you asked her: "You remember how you were upset when I was dating someone? With that in mind, and putting yourself in my shoes, how do you think I feel about you and Xxxx <the guy>?" Has that come up at all?

 

That has not come up at all, but I thought about sharing that perspective with her. Though we talked awhile tonight, she works very early in the morning and I couldn't keep her up talking tonight. I hope to spend some time with her tomorrow tonight to discuss everything.

 

In my mind, I've always sort of pictured things working out between us, but I never considered it a possibility. Given the recent events, I think now is as good a time as any to press on and see what luck I have. My hopes are high, but my expectations are low. I realize I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment, but what's more disappointing than never even trying?

[Driver8]

We met two of our good friends (who are dating) last night, and went to dinner and then out for drinks. We ended up back at their place where we continued drinking and watched a movie. We slept on the futon and hooked up yet again. This time it was like a game, as we both made an effort to not let our friends find out. I went down on her and she went wild for it.

 

At this point, I'm not really even looking for advice. I just like telling the story.

[Snuggle Tiger]

I'm dying to know how its working out?

 

I admire the fact you tried to respect her and her relationship with her b/f but...you two sound like you are in love.

 

Dont give up, don't push her into making a decision. But understand at some point she will have to make a choice and someone is going to get hurt.

[Driver8]

I had almost decided to stop posting since there didn't seem to be much interest, but here goes.

 

After hooking up the last time, we had talked about not doing it again and forgetting about it. A few nights later, we had sex. At the time it was great, but as you might imagine, not so great the next morning. It should be noted that it took her three years for her to have sex with her boyfriend. That morning, though, she was just really upset. She left for work without really saying much, and we didn't really talk until later that afternoon.

 

She seemed better, and we sort of joked about the whole thing. However, she seems to completely regret the whole experience, knowing it was wrong and feeling guilty for it. I guess I shouldn't expect her to feel much differently, but at the same time I was hoping she would be a little more conflicted.

 

We went to a birthday party for one of our mutual friends this past weekend after taking a long trip across the state together to see another friend compete in a bike race. Her boyfriend was at the party, and we agreed to act normal, pretend everything was fine. Things were fine for awhile, but we both got pretty drunk. We went off alone to talk a few times, and eventually the situation escalated a little. The first time, she just apologized for the situation, kissed me on the neck, and told me she loved me. The second time, she told me she didn't want to be with her boyfriend anymore. The third time, she told me she wanted to sleep with me, and I told her that would not be possible. Finally, as we were all getting ready to find places to sleep, she made a big thing about me NOT sleeping with the birthday girl (short version of the story - she was upset, and i suggested someone sleep with her so she wouldn't be alone).

 

We talked the next day, and she basically told me she remembered nothing from the previous night. I hinted at things she said, and she seemed ignorant. I didn't want to tell her exactly what she said, as it would force an awkward situation, and it just seemed wrong. As it stands, she's still with her boyfriend, and there seems to be no end to their relationship in sight. We haven't hooked up in almost a week, as the sex seemed to have shocked her back to reality. I don't know where we go from here.

[Driver8]

Since my last post, we have had sex a second time, though we were both fairly intoxicated. We went to a bar with some friends, and as we continued to drink, we realized we were being a little too overt. We didn't want our friends to know, so I called my roommate to pick us up. We came back to my apartment, locked the door to my bedroom, and were undressed within five minutes.

 

Unsurprisingly, she seemed to regret her actions the next day. It's clear she has feelings for me, but at the same time is not willing to give up her boyfriend.

 

We went to dinner today, and afterward we came back to my apartment to hang out before she left to spend the holiday with her boyfriend. Perfectly sober, we laid in my bed for nearly an hour, arms around each other, barely speaking. I told her I wanted to kiss her, but I was afraid she wouldn't have it. She told me she thinks she's a bad person. I disagreed, but there wasn't much arguing with her. I eventually did kiss her, and she kissed back. I gave her a few more small kisses, and she eventually stopped me. Leaving near than an hour later than she originally intended, I walked her to the door.

 

Though we didn't really discuss the situation today, she keeps telling me she doesn't know what she's doing or what she should do. The hardest part is she leaves for a study abroad program in one month. Naturally, I don't expect much to be resolved while she's away for four months, and I hate to carry the situation into the fall semester. However, I can't pressure her to make a decision, as it would not be fair to her.

 

At this point, I know I'm probably setting myself up for a great disappointment. Still, I know I would hate myself later if I gave up now. Eye on the prize...