Remain friends or be distant and aloof?

[NorCalDave]

So, if anyone remembers my story, great. If not, my ex and I have a 20 year age gap (she's 48, I'm 28) and we've dated off and on for the past 3 years. She has issues, like being commitmentphobic, insecure, codependent with her ex, emotionally unavailable, etc...but I also have my issues by continuing to pursue someone who is obviously unavailable and hasn't treated me like I deserve. What can I say, the woman does something for me and my heart is still with her, even though I have been my best to move on and take care of myself. I have quit drinking, I am doing some creative projects, and I am not easing my pain by dating anyone else. Just taking care of me.

Most people would agree that I can do better and going NC is the best thing to do. I have been. My ex and I have been ignoring each other for the past month or so, so it's been kind of easy to focus on myself....

....So, here's the thing.

The last couple times I've been in the gym I've caught her staring at me...and on Saturday I returned some things she had left at my place by putting them in a box on her doorstep. She came up to me (for the 1st time in like a month) and instead of ignoring me she had a big smile and said "Thanks" for giving her things back. I said no problem, and we walked away from each other.

I looked back at her and she was looking back at me.

I left it alone and went about my day.

Sunday, I went to church and instead of sitting on the other side to avoid me, she came and sat right next to me.

We chatted over coffee, caught up, flirted, then worked out together.

Instead of ignoring me at the gym, we worked out side by side, laughing and flirting the whole time.

She started disclosing very personal intimate things again, and said she said she might want to move to Vegas in November (she knows I've been wanting to purchase property there)....

So, now, we are back on speaking/friendly terms, which makes things less awkward, but I need direction from here on out.

She may just be needing attention, she may just be missing me, she may just have wanted to get back to our casual friendship and nothing more.

I don't know. I know she looked at me with a flirty almost "undressing" look in her eyes, but maybe I was imagining that, who knows....

...I am curious what you guys think I should do from here on out...I would like to build a future with her no matter how unrealistic it might be or how unavailable she may be....we get along so great and I have never been so physically attracted to someone....so, now that I have her attention again, do I continue being the casual friend and risk entering the "friend zone", or do I play it aloof and distant and hope that she comes back to me?

I've got what I wanted (to get back on friendly terms), but now I want to take it to the next level by making the right moves.

[baden]

My advice would be meet a girl your own age that is not an emotional wreck. I mean, she is 48 years old...get it together already! Don't settle for the scraps she is throwing at you. If you want to be friends with her that is fine, but I wouldn't take it any further than that.

[underpants]

Based on some of your previous posts. Here is my guess.

 

I think the move to return her stuff, and the rather aloof, take it or leave it attitude you have displayed has her...slightly curious. It's kind of ironic that manipulative people are actually very easily manipulated. Rather sad but ironic none the less.

 

She has shown you what she will do, more then once (right?). How many times do you want to repeat this cycle? You gave yourself some good advice in your original post. You are making some healthy steps toward improving yourself. She may sense your detachment from her and the law of attraction dictates that she restore the status quo so to speak.

 

Her role in your life might just be that you now know that you want to and are able to have a committed future with someone. However, I don't think she really wants the same things, and unfortunately I don't think she can provide the partnership you would like to have.

 

My advice would be to back way off, keep it light and friendly at the gym only and at her provacation. She will probably escalate a little in her game, more requests, more roided ponys. It might be time to really ask yourself what you really want, in general.

 

Regards,

Unders

[NorCalDave]

My advice would be meet a girl your own age that is not an emotional wreck. I mean, she is 48 years old...get it together already! Don't settle for the scraps she is throwing at you. If you want to be friends with her that is fine, but I wouldn't take it any further than that.

 

 

You're right, you'd think she'd have her **** together by now. And she probably is only throwing me scraps. But why do those scraps make me feel so good? It makes me want more. Maybe that is part of the game she wants to play. It could just be that she doesn't want any tension at the gym and she is happy that I returned her things. I don't know.

My guy instinct tells me to keep doing what I am doing and see what happens.

To keep being friendly if she approaches me, but not to approach her or be so available. It seems to be working so I am going to keep going with it.

I think it may just surprise her to see how unavailable I am going to keep being....when I have always been totally available to her in the past.

[NorCalDave]

Based on some of your previous posts. Here is my guess.

 

Yes, my heart is unfortunately still very much with her.

 

I think the move to return her stuff, and the rather aloof, take it or leave it attitude you have displayed has her...slightly curious. It's kind of ironic that manipulative people are actually very easily manipulated. Rather sad but ironic none the less.

 

I think you are right on here, too. She sees that I can ignore her for a month too. No calls, no desperation, nothing. Not even a birthday card.

Then I return her things with no note, no warmth at all....and now she's suddenly acting like my friend again? Seems curious. You're right.

 

She has shown you what she will do, more then once (right?). How many times do you want to repeat this cycle? You gave yourself some good advice in your original post. You are making some healthy steps toward improving yourself. She may sense your detachment from her and the law of attraction dictates that she restore the status quo so to speak.

 

Please explain more of this law of attraction. I have yet to read that book.

But yes, she has shown me repeatedly that she pulls away RIGHT when we get close...so why should I expect any different?

Point taken.

But please elaborate on this restoring of the status quo.

 

Her role in your life might just be that you now know that you want to and are able to have a committed future with someone. However, I don't think she really wants the same things, and unfortunately I don't think she can provide the partnership you would like to have.

 

Whether I want to believe it or not, unfortunately I think you are right on.

I guess my hope is that all the counseling and therapy she says she's going to will make her healthier and available to receive love in the future.

Maybe it's my fantasy to be her knight in shining armor that she rides off with. Maybe the fact that she's never been married or had kids makes me want to be the special guy.

 

My advice would be to back way off, keep it light and friendly at the gym only and at her provacation. She will probably escalate a little in her game, more requests, more roided ponys. It might be time to really ask yourself what you really want, in general.

 

Advice taken. I will do.

What I want in general is to be able to be happy by myself (getting there) and for her and I to be able to be together in the future.

 

Regards,

Unders

 

Thank you for the advice!

[CaliGuy]

Again I say: What can you gain by being friends with an ex, what can they provide you that another GOOD and healthy friendship can not?

 

My answer: Nothing.

 

It's impossible to be friends with someone you are in love with. And it will only serve to keep the person you are supposed to meet out of your life.

 

In your case my friend she just wants to keep you close by.

 

To feed her ego.

To have you as a backup.

To enjoy watching you slobber over the crumbs of attention she gives you.

 

I have a question for you.

 

Do you respect yourself? Answer honestly.

[NorCalDave]

Again I say: What can you gain by being friends with an ex, what can they provide you that another GOOD and healthy friendship can not?

 

My answer: Nothing.

 

It's impossible to be friends with someone you are in love with. And it will only serve to keep the person you are supposed to meet out of your life.

 

In your case my friend she just wants to keep you close by.

 

To feed her ego.

To have you as a backup.

To enjoy watching you slobber over the crumbs of attention she gives you.

 

I have a question for you.

 

Do you respect yourself? Answer honestly.

 

Okay, here's the thing CG, I do respect myself. But I am starting to wonder if it will just be easier to be casual friends- with no expectations- than ex's who ignore each other.

I am not looking for a best friend...I know THAT would be impossible because of my attraction for her...but if we are to run into each other from time to time, I wonder if it will just be easier to be able to talk and catch up rather than a tense awkward active avoidance...which it's been for the past month and a half.

I mean, it really felt good to catch up and see her again.

I am thinking that if we were meant to be in the long run, maybe I will just have to accept a casual friendship for now, in the present.

If I have no expectations and don't act available, I don't see how I am making myself vulnerable to her.

[CaliGuy]

Okay, here's the thing CG, I do respect myself. But I am starting to wonder if it will just be easier to be casual friends- with no expectations- than ex's who ignore each other.

I am not looking for a best friend...I know THAT would be impossible because of my attraction for her...but if we are to run into each other from time to time, I wonder if it will just be easier to be able to talk and catch up rather than a tense awkward active avoidance...which it's been for the past month and a half.

I mean, it really felt good to catch up and see her again.

I am thinking that if we were meant to be in the long run, maybe I will just have to accept a casual friendship for now, in the present.

If I have no expectations and don't act available, I don't see how I am making myself vulnerable to her.

 

Ok, I've told you why she wants to remain friends. Now I will tell you why you do. You are in complete denial. You want to remain friends in the hopes that her heart will change and you'll be the first guy in line. Your reason to stay friends is romantic in nature, but I am sure you will deny it.

 

You didn't read the book I suggested did you? You don't have to answer. I can tell by your actions you have not.

 

You also did not change gyms as I suggested (simply because you want to be around her).

 

Face it. You're addicted to her. And you will not heal until you decide to respect yourself and go to another gym and cross her out of your life.

 

You keep asking for advice and ignoring it. Why is that?

[NorCalDave]

Ok, I've told you why she wants to remain friends. Now I will tell you why you do. You are in complete denial. You want to remain friends in the hopes that her heart will change and you'll be the first guy in line. Your reason to stay friends is romantic in nature, but I am sure you will deny it.

 

You didn't read the book I suggested did you? You don't have to answer. I can tell by your actions you have not.

 

You also did not change gyms as I suggested (simply because you want to be around her).

 

Face it. You're addicted to her. And you will not heal until you decide to respect yourself and go to another gym and cross her out of your life.

 

You keep asking for advice and ignoring it. Why is that?

 

 

You're right. I am in complete denial and my reasons for friendship are romantically based. I am addicted to her.

At least I'm honest.

Tonight we saw each other.

We met up for church and talked afterwards for about 30 minutes. She is definitely interested in me again. I was very casual and friendly and she was sending all the flirty vibes out. She gave me a bunch of compliments and I caught her looking me up and down and few times. She was very suggestive and was basically throwing out the bait in the hopes that she'd get me back in the palm of her hand. But I didn't budge. I was very nonchalant and I think it was driving her crazy.

She basically told me her whole schedule, when she'll be at the gym, what her plans are for this weekend, the future, everything.

She is training for this $100k fitness contest and her body looks AMAZING....But I wasn't drooling over her and asking her to hang out...it was the other way around...I eventually said bye and started to get into my car and she called out to me again...she wanted to keep talking....I told her I had to go paint my room (which I am doing) and I NEVER tell her I have to go or I can't hang out...I don't think I have told her "no" in the 3 years I've known her....I think it was driving her crazy at how seemingly uninterested I was acting....inside I was swirling with attraction but I hid it very well.....she made another comment on how my pants look good on me and then I caught her looking at my ass!

Oh man, I was on cloud nine after that encounter. My heart literally skipped a beat a few times....I felt like I was on ecstacy.....I'm sure she felt the same way....

...I am going to keep doing what I am doing....being aloof and casual....if she wants me back she is going to have to work at it....

....I don't understand how or why we can't just make this work...it's so obvious we have the physical chemistry....we can talk for hours...we laugh...we have the same hobbies....we have so much in common but she always chooses to run away from me...

..I am just going to enjoy the good feelings I am experiencing right now and not stress....

...but let's face it, I am addicted, I am wanting a friendship just to play the game of getting her back....why deny it? I am still in love and this time I am going to be alot more guarded and not available...

...I have only skimmed through "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and I have fully read "Emotional Unavailibility" and "He's Scared, She's Scared"...those books really opened my eyes as to my actions and the kind of person she is...

...I don't know what to say. I know I am asking for advice and then not following it...but something that feels this good is something I have a hard time saying no to.

At least I didn't act pathetic, weak or needy. I looked strong, cool, calm and collected. She seems to be attracted to me whenever I act this way...so I am going to keep it up and see what happens....as long as I stay busy and not needy and always unavailable, this might be a good thing.

Who knows what will happen but dang it feels good right now, and DAMN she looked good tonight.

[madgun68]

Kudos Dave,

 

at least you're being honest with yourself on this as to what you really want.

 

I would suggest, if she's serious about making it work, that you try to get the both of you involved in couples therapy. A good therapist should be able to get to the core of why she keeps running off.

 

Caliguy:

After seeing you refer to "No More Mr. Nice Guy" I picked up the book out of curiosity. I seriously thought that it was going to be about learning how to manipulate people. I was pretty shocked once I started reading.. That book could have been written about me.

 

I picked up one called "The Disease to Please" which is pretty good too if anyone is interested in something very similar.

 

Anyway, just wanted to give a round-about thanks..

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[underpants]

If you continue to play this game you will wind up hurt again, and maybe even more so because this time you knew going in.

 

It sounds as though you are gonna go there anyway. (sighs). She gave you her gym schedule and other things as bait. Now she can sit pretty and wait for you to walk into her web. You admit that she becomes interested only when you pull away. Do you really want to have to maintain this kind of anxiety in a long term relationship? Of course it makes it swirly fun, but it is not a real lasting thing. It's impossible, even soul draining to try to maintain that much of a push pull over time.

 

I would suggest that now that you know her upcoming schedule at the gym, that you make a conscious effort to make your appearances there at other times. Trust me, this will bother her, a little. Thats what you want right? After not seeing you for a time, she may escalate her game a little more. She might mention to you at church that she hadn't seen you at the gym. You could give her the inquisitive non chalant answer of, oh, I guess now that you mention it I guess you are right? and smile, and ask how the training is going, then get away in under 15 minutes. Leaving her wanting more and not quite sure of your attraction.

 

It's a game, no one really wins this game.

 

Do as you will.

 

Regards,

Unders

[NorCalDave]

I could be setting myself up for some serious pain, because she is like a drug....when I wrote that last night I was literally HIGH on her....now the next morning came and I need to make sure I protect my emotions....she pushes, she pulls, she's inconsistent, she's wishy washy.

You're right, she is waiting for me to crawl back into her web where she is comfortable...she is in her comfort zone there, in control.

When I am in control and not following her around like a puppy dog, she wants me more and more.

Well. I have 2 choices.

Walk away and say I deserve better, or play this game with her in which no one really wins.

You're right.

I am going to be more guarded and I am going to literally drive her nuts with my unavailibility. I'm going to milk this for all I can.

Now that I know I have her interest back, the power is back in my corner.

Either I can relinquish it now, or I can hold onto it and stand my ground.

I am going to do that. She is going to have to put in the work this time.

[Trialbyfire]

I could be setting myself up for some serious pain, because she is like a drug....when I wrote that last night I was literally HIGH on her....now the next morning came and I need to make sure I protect my emotions....she pushes, she pulls, she's inconsistent, she's wishy washy.

You're right, she is waiting for me to crawl back into her web where she is comfortable...she is in her comfort zone there, in control.

When I am in control and not following her around like a puppy dog, she wants me more and more.

Well. I have 2 choices.

Walk away and say I deserve better, or play this game with her in which no one really wins.

You're right.

I am going to be more guarded and I am going to literally drive her nuts with my unavailibility. I'm going to milk this for all I can.

Now that I know I have her interest back, the power is back in my corner.

Either I can relinquish it now, or I can hold onto it and stand my ground.

I am going to do that. She is going to have to put in the work this time.

GO NCD, GO!! This is it. Empower yourself. No more being weaved into her web. You can do it. :bunny:

[Faith2]

play this game with her in which no one really wins.

 

I am going to literally drive her nuts with my unavailibility. I'm going to milk this for all I can.

Now that I know I have her interest back, the power is back in my corner.

Either I can relinquish it now, or I can hold onto it and stand my ground.

I am going to do that. She is going to have to put in the work this time.

 

So it sounds like you've decided to keep playing the game in which no one really wins.

[NorCalDave]

Maybe it is a game. Maybe no one will win, but I am really going to see what happens when we go NC when I know she is interested again.

I really want to drive her nuts with this.

I know she is expecting me to crawl right back into her web and be available (which is what always happens, and when it does, she seems to back off) and when I am not available this time, I wonder what she'll do.

I wasn't expecting this though, seriously.

The way she was ignoring me for the past 1.5 months I really thought she wanted nothing to do with me anymore, especially since our last couple encounters before the NC were dramatic and ugly.

But, just a little thing like returning her blankets and showing up to church, and I have gotten her interested again. I don't know why she isn't with someone else right now, the woman could cause a 20 car pileup just by walking down the street....maybe she's being truthful when she says she doesn't want a long term relationship...I thought that was just a way of saying she doesn't want to be with me....

...But her disclosing her schedule and availability and then coming to talk to me when I was already getting into my car, and then catching her eyes looking at certain parts of my body...all this tells me she is interested again....it's my choice what to do now...I am going to keep busy with my side projects and kill her with unavailibility and apathy....she can't just think she can come and scoop me up again with no resistance...no way.....

...but it will be tough saying no to someone who is in my mind constantly and who I am obviously still in love with.

God please grant me the strength!

[Trialbyfire]

Keep that strength NCD. One thing you should be willing to gamble is that this isn't about getting her back. It's about personal empowerment. If you do NC with this in mind, you will win by becoming your own individual self. You need to stop needing her. Understood?

[NorCalDave]

Keep that strength NCD. One thing you should be willing to gamble is that this isn't about getting her back. It's about personal empowerment. If you do NC with this in mind, you will win by becoming your own individual self. You need to stop needing her. Understood?

 

 

Understood. You're right.

I felt SOOOOO good about myself afterwards last night because I didn't get weak and crawl into her web (I like this web analogy!)...I totally stood my ground and talked to her exactly like I would talk to one of my guy friends...no alluring eyes (trust me I can get the bedroom eyes going when I want, especially with her), no suggestive comments, no details about my life (other than I got a raise at work)...I gave her nothing to work with...and when she saw me walking away and not asking her to dinner like she probably expected, I can't believe she drove right up to my car for round 2.

She was basically saying, "Hey, give me more attention."

Maybe it didn't hurt that I had my best pants and shirt on....that mixed with the aloofness I hope drove her crazy...

...Well, that's what she's going to get a heavy dose of. Aloofness and unavailability.

...But going back to the main point, yes, this is a personal power thing.

It is a game, I admit, but the point of the game this time is to keep my dignity, my pride and my heart...to keep all that stuff with me, and not give it to her so she can **** on it.

I've already gone that route enough and it obviously didn't work.

I lost myself, went in a downward spiral, and she walked.

Now, this should be interesting when I keep my power.

[CaliGuy]

Caliguy:

After seeing you refer to "No More Mr. Nice Guy" I picked up the book out of curiosity. I seriously thought that it was going to be about learning how to manipulate people. I was pretty shocked once I started reading.. That book could have been written about me.

 

 

So many people, men and women alike, misinterpret what that book is about. Once they read it, they understand it has nothing to do with being a jerk and everything to do with learning to love and respect yourself.

 

Cheers.

[CaliGuy]

GO NCD, GO!! This is it. Empower yourself. No more being weaved into her web. You can do it. :bunny:

 

But he's not doing it. He's putting up a facade. He's not ready for another chance because he hasn't rid himself of his dependence on her for his happiness.

 

Reading his reply to mine he made it painfully clear. His happiness and self-worth is completely dependent on how she acts towards him. And that will lead him to certain doom when she crushes his heart again.

 

He needs to distance himself for real and heal first. He needs to learn to be completely happy alone. Otherwise, when she pulls her tricks again, he'll be crushed once more.

 

Seen it happen so many times. Even to myself. It's not until you learn to love and respect yourself that you can truly see the situation for what it is. And for him at least, it's not healthy. Not even a few weeks ago she was screaming at him in the gym to leave her alone.

 

Now she's giving him a few crumbs of attention and he's back to thinking she wants to work things out.

 

He's setting himself up for failure. The problems that contributed to the demise of their relationship still exist.

[Trialbyfire]

But he's not doing it. He's putting up a facade. He's not ready for another chance because he hasn't rid himself of his dependence on her for his happiness.

 

Reading his reply to mine he made it painfully clear. His happiness and self-worth is completely dependent on how she acts towards him. And that will lead him to certain doom when she crushes his heart again.

 

He needs to distance himself for real and heal first. He needs to learn to be completely happy alone. Otherwise, when she pulls her tricks again, he'll be crushed once more.

 

Seen it happen so many times. Even to myself. It's not until you learn to love and respect yourself that you can truly see the situation for what it is. And for him at least, it's not healthy. Not even a few weeks ago she was screaming at him in the gym to leave her alone.

 

Now she's giving him a few crumbs of attention and he's back to thinking she wants to work things out.

 

He's setting himself up for failure. The problems that contributed to the demise of their relationship still exist.

That's where my post #16 comes into play. Do it for you only.

 

One thing though Caliguy. Sometimes it's a three step NC process. First you brash it out, pretend it out, make everyone around you believe it. Then, as time goes on, you start to assimilate it and believe it yourself. Finally, you're there. You know you're ready to let go and get on with life.

 

I can see that you're giving good advice based on what worked for you. You want the posters to take the shortest route to healing, jumping straight to the most quick and effective way to go about it but sometimes, people have to make the transitory mistakes first, like you did.

[CaliGuy]

That's where my post #16 comes into play. Do it for you only.

 

One thing though Caliguy. Sometimes it's a three step NC process. First you brash it out, pretend it out, make everyone around you believe it. Then, as time goes on, you start to assimilate it and believe it yourself. Finally, you're there. You know you're ready to let go and get on with life.

 

I can see that you're giving good advice based on what worked for you. You want the posters to take the shortest route to healing, jumping straight to the most quick and effective way to go about it but sometimes, people have to make the transitory mistakes first, like you did.

 

 

True. I guess I am trying to save the guy some headaches and a LOT of heartache. Sometimes no matter how much good advice we receive we still need to learn on our own (myself included).

 

I get what you're saying. "Fake it till you make it." I'm tracking

[Trialbyfire]

True. I guess I am trying to save the guy some headaches and a LOT of heartache. Sometimes no matter how much good advice we receive we still need to learn on our own (myself included).

 

I get what you're saying. "Fake it till you make it." I'm tracking

You go, Caliguy!

[NorCalDave]

That's the thing.

I AM faking it until I make it.

I know I'm not over her. But I know deep down that I am getting better, stronger, more resistant to her. I can feel it. I have been crushed by her many times and my point is now that I know what doesn't work and what does work, I am going to keep doing what does work.

What doesn't work is when I depend on her for my happiness.

I become too involved with her, and I forget my own life and then I am up **** creek. She also runs at that point too, which makes it worse.

(The only reason all this happens though= she pulls away when we get serious).

 

What does work is= I keep my self-esteem. I focus on being happy alone (which I am doing by painting my room and not drinking for all of June) and not obsessing about her.

Perfect example.

Tonight at the gym, I looked around for her a bit, and once I realized she wasn't there, I told myself to enjoy the workout, the feelings in my body, and be happy that God is giving me this space away from her to work on myself.

I know the woman is attracted to me. I know we will eventually hook up again. Chemistry like this is electric...and electricity flows. That's what it does..

So I know that at this point in the summer, my mission in front of me is what God is putting in front of me: be alone, take care of yourself, make the right decisions, don't give your heart to someone who doesn't deserve it, don't be self-destructive but rather the opposite.

I must first clear this path of leaves so the middle and end of summer will be incredibly liberating.

 

As long as I am guarded and cautious and distant with her, I will be fine and stick to the plan.

She is literally going to have to say, "I want to start dating again" before I consider hooking up with her.

I don't want to feel like **** after we have sex or something because I am unclear on our future together. That just demeans the sex.

I would rather us build it up to something UNREAL...just build the tension to a point where it is healthy for us to begin....now, if she never takes me up on this or puts in enough effort, it won't happen then. Because I will not be the pursuer.

It doesn't work pursuing her. She has always said she is a panther, (I think because she likes to stalk her prey!).

When she is stalked, she runs, and runs fast like the panther she is.

I am the Lion leo, and she can come to me.

I can't catch her...she's too fast, so I can only hope that she comes to me...that she starts calling me, that she starts ASKING me out....not throwing hints and manipulating me to ask her...but actually ASKING me out...taking a chance, sacking up and asking me out again and saying she wants to be with me....

...All these things have to happen or it won't work.

If I slip and fall and start to pursue again, I lose all the power that I have slowly started building.

A lion keeps his power, he doesn't give it away.

 

Right now I feel closer to God than I have felt in a while, and just recently have I reignited our relationship.

It kinda feels good, knowing that everything will be okay because you are following a plan.

 

I know she was yelling at me at the gym a month ago, which makes all this that much stranger....for her to Jekyl and Hyde and 1 month later seem TOTALLY interested again just amazes me.

It's amazing what NC can do.

[kali420]

I don't know Dave. Being friends is always cool. I haven't been able to do that with any of my ex's. My old ex's...yeah. But, that's just me.

[NorCalDave]

I don't know Dave. Being friends is always cool. I haven't been able to do that with any of my ex's. My old ex's...yeah. But, that's just me.

 

I don't see how I can be friends with her either. My plan isn't to necessarily be friends, but just be casual acquaintances enough to the point where hopefully the buildup causes her to want more.