dangerous game?

[drizzle]

My wife enjoys flirting with other men because it gives her an ego boost. Now, everyone flirts to some extent, and I wouldn't mind a few smiles or an arm touch here or there, but she has been known to carry on clandestine friendships with other men, calling and texting them, and on a few occasions, going out to meet them for drinks. This is what really bothers me as she tends to lie and say she is going out with a girlfriend. We had a real problem a while ago that nearly destroyed our marriage and she insisted she would no longer keep her flirting secret from me so I would have to worry again that she was having an affair. (I know, this already is sounding all sorts of bells and whistles, right?)

 

Well, about a month ago she met a man who flattered her and she really enjoyed the attention. I then discovered she gave him her cell number and some time after that they started texting and calling each other. Then she told me she was going out with a girlfriend and said that she "ran into" this guy by chance. I have reason to doubt that, because I saw a text message from him on her phone prior to this asking "can I call you?"

 

Last weekend she and I were out together when he called on her phone. She lied and said it was someone else. Then, she and he exchanged a series of text messages (while I was driving). I asked who she was texting and again she lied and said it was someone else. Later I snooped a bit and saw the incoming messages from him. One was "can I kiss you?" and the next was "can I do more than kiss you?" This leads me to infer that she had answered yes to the first message. Several nights since then she has called him and lied saying it was someone else.

 

Here is what I am sure about - if I were to confront her about all this, she would be angry with me for snooping into her phone and would insist that she is only flirting and would never ever ever cheat on me. I consider the deception to be already a kind of cheating.

 

What thoughts do others here have on this? Is this harmless on her part?

 

So far I have no evidence at all of her doing anything more than talking to this guy. There is no evidence that she ever has or would kiss or have other physical contact with this guy or with any of the guys in the past.

[mockeryjones]

Here is what I am sure about - if I were to confront her about all this, she would be angry with me for snooping into her phone and would insist that she is only flirting and would never ever ever cheat on me. I consider the deception to be already a kind of cheating.

 

 

 

she would be angry with you for snooping? are you kidding?

 

brother it's time to put your foot down and let things play out as they will. she is taking advantage of your fear of confronting her. as long as you let her you will never be able to feel secure in your relationship with her.

[Trialbyfire]

You have more issues within your marriage than a little harmless flirting. She's lying to you and has completely disregarded your boundaries. I agree with mockeryjones that it's high time you put your foot down and give her some unyielding boundaries. She's being selfish and immature.

[Topper]

you have no evidence that she is cheating? she is meting men behind your back. that alone says she doesn't have any respect for you or your marriage. Confront her and let the chips fall where they may. Your lack of confrontation only encourages her to do more. The more you take this the more she sees you as a spinless man without any balls. She might not say it. but she is thinking I can do better then this wimp.

Sorry to be harsh. Sometimes we need a slap upside the head to motivate us.

[reservoirdog1]

What thoughts do others here have on this? Is this harmless on her part?

This is so fycking NOT harmless on her part, that it's not funny.

 

Firstly buddy... sorry to tell you this, but I'd bet you a pound to a pinch of shyt that she's already screwed other guys during your marriage, that you don't know about. You say that she enjoys the flirting just because it gives her an ego boost. You're deluding yourself -- she does it because she needs to, because it's about the only way she feels good about herself. Marriages and people like her go together like sunlight and vampires. Believe me, I was married to one.

 

Secondly: her actions demonstrate that she has little or no respect for you. There are certain boundaries that should not be crossed in a relationship, and she's crossed them. The problem is that it sounds like you basically gave her permission to do it because you knew she was going to keep doing it anyway. Plus, her word clearly isn't worth a damn, since she told you that she would no longer hide it from you, but proceeded to do just that.

 

Why in the world would you put up with this? Don't you think you deserve to be with a woman you can trust, who doesn't feel the need to get validation from other guys in order to feel good about herself?

 

You'll be wasting your life if you stay married to her. Sorry to be blunt, but I call them like I see them.

[dbtmarley]

Dayum!!!!

 

This is just plain F'ed up!

 

Dude I think your woman is playing you... and I think deep in your heart you know it. Do not put up with any of it any longer.

 

When she gave you her explanation for flirting.... Jesus I can't believe this... did you except it?

 

The dang low life who is texting her deserves her...

 

Man... dude I'm sorry for my lack of advice. You story burns me the frig up!!

 

I feel like a real prick for telling you good luck, but man hey, GOODLUCK!

 

Frig man you need a hug... can someone give the guy a hug... Please?!?!

[drizzle]

Does it make any difference that she was drunk at the time she sent the text messages?

 

I eavesdropped on some of her phone conversation last night with this guy and it all sounded very innocent.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I might be a little extreme in my definition of cheating, but just what you've told us is cheating in my book. Texting other men about kissing, meeting them out without you, even having a freindship with another man that you are unaware of is cheating in my book. I'm sorry for your situation, it doesn't sound like she's capable of changing. It really blows my mind that she was doing it in front of your face, sounds like she has some personal issues and really likes risk taking.

[VegasGirl_77]

If it were me, I'd call her on it. Who cares if she thinks you're snooping? If she has the audacity to text message another guy while she is sitting right next to you in the car then you have every right to say something. Not that it makes it right if she is texting this guy when she ISN'T around you, but its just so...wrong...to do it while she is right there with you. It's so disrespectful. I would tell her how you feel and ask her what's up and no, being drunk doesn't make it right or doesn't make it any better either.

[BonneKarma]

I agree that she has already crossed the line. Anytime a bond has formed with someone that is hidden from an SO you are already cheating. People don't hide things if they don't feel they are guilty of doing something wrong.

 

Personally I don't think it's right for a married person to carry on a relationship with someone 'of the sex they're attracted to' behind their SO's back. Why do her and this man need to speak on the phone and send text messages anyhow? That's dating behaviour. If it was a purely platonic relationship you would know him also and she would speak to him the open.

 

How did she explain her need to have flirtatious relationships to you? Something like:

"You're just going to have to accept this about me if we're going to be together."

 

It's okay for couples to agree to accept things about eachother that may be outside the norm, but the fact that you're asking for advice tells me that you don't truly accept it or agree. You're just afraid of her rejection when you put your foot down.

 

Do you carry on flirtatious relationships with other women? (I bet you don't) How would she feel if you did? (I bet she'd freak out) How is the sex life in your marriage, what about other aspects of your marriage?

 

Some people have had very harsh responses here, and I honestly don't blame them. While it's not normally my style to be so blunt, I have to say I also suspect that she married you as a safety net. I would also bet that if this is how she views marriage she has probably also strayed physically.

 

Sorry, but you need to stand up for yourself and confront her.

[Bryanp]

Hello,

 

I think you are in big time denial. My guess is that she was inappropriately involved with someone previously which almost destroyed your marriage is what you alluded to in your post. She sneaks around meeting other men behind your back and lying to you about it. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would put up with such crap from you?

 

She is totally disrespecting and humiliating you as a spouse and as a man. How could you feel good about being married to a woman who enjoys having secret friendships with other men ("can I kiss you?..can I do more to you?). I would think that you must be so co-dependent on her that you enforce few boundaries in your marriage and she is allowed to flirt with other men as if she was single.

 

The fact that she sees these men for drinks behind your back, texts messages them while she is in the car with you and lies about it clearly indicates that she has very little respect for you whatsoever. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Why are you accepting such humiliating behavior from her? You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. I bet if you met women for drinks behind her back she would go ballistics. Again clearly she does not respect you. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Enough is enough!

[drizzle]

I would think that you must be so co-dependent on her that you enforce few boundaries in your marriage and she is allowed to flirt with other men as if she was single.

 

I fear this comment is exactly correct. I desperately want her to change, but perhaps I will have to come to terms with the possibility that this will never happen. I have wondered whether I am seeing the beginning of the end of our marriage. She has so many good qualities that I keep hoping if only I do x or y or z, maybe I can do something to nurture those good qualities and help her so that she no longer needs to manifest the bad qualities. I am sure I am somewhat at fault for our problems, but I don't think it is reasonable to think that I am solely responsible.

 

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I suppose things will end up reaching a point where we reach a crisis point. But until then I can't bring myself to give up on her.

[Topper]

Drizzle, have you gotten the message yet? I do hope that you understand that by being a door mat eventually you will lose your wife and all your self respect.

If you confront her. You may in fact save your marriage and your self respect. The worse case will be your marriage ends and you still gain some self respect.

Good Luck

[Sheba]

I have met some very skilled flirters who stroke the egos of others but who also flirt in public with their spouse, and always, always stroke the ego of their spouse more and openly. I think of these people as masters of the art of flirting and I believe no one thinks they are after sex with someone other than their spouse.

 

This is not what is happening in your situation. I do think it is horribly belittling to have your spouse text messaging another man in the car beside you, and to be conversing with other men about kissing them, etc. She is feeding you a line of BS when she tells you this is no threat to you.

 

You should get some support for yourself from a counsellor. I think that your wife sounds "too far gone" - too cruel, really, for there to be a point to marriage counselling, but perhaps that would be something you want to consider and to discuss with her.

 

Good luck.

[Phoebe]

You've generally got two different forms of flirting: recreational flirting and flirting with intent. Recreational is relatively harmless as long as everyone knows that it's just play, it can be a nice little ego boast. BUT secret meetings and texting? That is not harmless, my personal opinion, it's not even flirting with intent anymore, I'd say she's having an affair.

[Hugh_950]

From what you've told:

 

It's too late for confrontation and putting you foot down.

That is only weak at this point and won't solve the problem.

 

I'm sure you love her and even if she loves you, she doesn't respect you.

And man, you are letting her walk on you. No woman can really respect that.

Negotiating, talking, setting boundaries .... in a case like your's - it's all enabling her to walk on you.

 

You have to walk out. And mean it.

 

You can't set any boundaries now.

 

And pretending that you'll leave ... will just be a show that she'll see through.

 

Honestly, Drizzle ... best if you don't walk out for the purpose of changing her.

She'll sense that ... it won't change her if you don't mean it.

 

Walk out for yourself.

[Star Gazer]

I'm with IWWH on this one. Beginning and nurturing a NEW and EXTREMELY FLIRTATIOUS relationship outside the confines of YOUR relationship/marriage IS cheating. Period.

 

However, even in the absense of my strict definition, I think she's already cheated-cheated. When people cheat, even when they own up to it, you NEVER get the full story. What you're seeing, these text messages involving discussions of physical intimacy...man, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I'm a huge flirt. Huge. However, when I'm in a relationship, that fades substantially. Like Phoebe said, there's a difference between recreational flirting, and flirting with intent. Your wife isn't just joking around here. She's engaging in secret rendezvous - she's basically dating other men, these are TRYSTS - and lying to you about it, and secretly texting about physically intimate acts and lying to you about it. It doesn't matter that she was drunk when she was texting him. She knew what she was doing, she knew it was wrong, and she knew she was lying to you about it.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but you're fooling yourself if you think what she's doing is all just harmless fun. She's about to cause irreprable damage to your marriage, if she hasn't already.

 

She's disrespecting you in the worst way right now. Be a man, pull your balls out of your ass, and put your foot down.