Prayer

[ruby_gloom]

just something i don't understand:

 

why are some people offended by someone praying for them?

 

i don't get it. i personally am not a religious person at all. i'm also on the fence as to whether i believe god exists or not or whether prayer is something that works or not.

 

for both, i am sometimes inclined to believe that they are a sort of psychological crutch some people use. at the same time, however, i am also inclined to believe that despite all the scientific evidence, there will always be some things that will never be fully explained or understood, and that god and prayer may be two of them.

 

but actually, that info is kind of irrelevant because prayer, if nothing else, is like a "wish" that you ask for yourself or others in order to relieve, more often than not, a negative situation of sorts.

 

that's how i think about it, anyway.

 

and yet some people are offended by this, and i just don't understand that. if you don't believe in it and think it's something silly, then why get "offended" or all worked up about something that's just silly and nonexistent?

 

would you also get upset if i were to say "i wish you good luck on ____!" doesn't "wish" and "luck" imply some sort of supernatural connotation, too?

 

and when you sneeze, do you also get offended if someone says "oh, bless you"?

 

i admit i do that all of the time, but i don't think about it in the religious sense, but rather in the courtesy way. does something like that really offend people?

 

i just don't understand why. it seems a bit ridiculous to me, to be honest.

[tanbark813]

I think the context is important. I'm agnostic but opposed to organized religion (for the most part).

 

If, say, I got hurt and someone said they'd pray for me then I wouldn't be offended and would genuinely appreciate it.

 

If, however, I were having a discussion with someone and told them I didn't believe in organized religion and then they said they'd pray for me--as in finding Jesus or whatever--then I'd be offended because it's a backhanded way of mocking my beliefs.

[ruby_gloom]

i think you're right, tan. i wanted to edit my post to point that out, but my brain's kind of fuzzy at the moment.

 

the thing is that i think those two "types" of prayers are different: going off your examples, i'd say that the former is a true and genuine wish/desire for your well being, while the latter is just another attempt to impose religion as well as to tell you that you are wrong, they are right, and thus need a divine intervention.

 

one seems kind while the other just seems snide.

 

l

[quankanne]

I think most people look at the genuine courtesy behind prayers, blessings, best wishes, positive thoughts, etc. because it means someone is thinking of you and wants the best for you.

 

I do agree with Tan that it can be awkward or annoying when people with good intentions phrase those intentions in a crude way, they don't understand that they're coming off as judgemental.

[blind_otter]

Of course none of the people who are offended by prayer are going to respond to this thread. I find it absurd to choose ot be offended by any well-meaning gesture. It's just a stupid waste of energy.

 

I mean, I deal with people all day at my job now. Some of them are in crappy moods and take it out on me. But why on earth would I choose to be offended? Waste of time.

 

of course I'm just talking to myself here.

 

Personally, although in the other thread I said I would stop....I'm not going to. I'll gleefully offend anyone who wants to waste their time being offended.

 

So I pray for people when they get sick, get in car accidents, or have general crapola happen to them. So what. It's just me sending them a positive vibration. I don't even necessarily pray to God. Sometimes I just pray to the Universe.

 

in any case, it's stupid to be choose to be offended. I'm just saying.

 

QUESTION:

If you don't believe in God, why would it be offensive since prayer is pap to you anyways.

[Storyrider]

I like it when people pray for me. I need all the help I can get. For some reason, Jews hardly ever say, "I'll pray for you." Not sure why.

 

Back when I didn't believe in God I don't remember being offended when people would say that. But I probably looked down on them as simpletons and wouldn't want myself associated with that.

 

I think people who don't believe in prayer are made uncomfortable by it. It is so intimate, like being naked, and if you don't believe in it, a little perverse. Also, remember, if they didn't grow up with prayer their view of it might come solely from movies and TV, where it is almost universally portrayed as either idiotic or corrupt, and either way, totally uncool.

[sb129]

i think you're right, tan. i wanted to edit my post to point that out, but my brain's kind of fuzzy at the moment.

 

the thing is that i think those two "types" of prayers are different: going off your examples, i'd say that the former is a true and genuine wish/desire for your well being, while the latter is just another attempt to impose religion as well as to tell you that you are wrong, they are right, and thus need a divine intervention.

 

one seems kind while the other just seems snide.

 

l

 

I am a person who doesn't believe in prayer, and ruby and tan have made an important distinction between the two kinds.

 

If someone was genuinely praying for me in a time of need etc, then I would appreciate the sentiment, because whilst I don't believe it would "work" in that persons eyes it is a way of showing they care.

many of my family members are very religious, and that is fine by me. Some of them don't know the extent of my non belief, because my relationship with them is more important to me than that.

 

However, if someone prays for my "soul" (and I have had some offers on this forum) because I choose not to believe in god, then I find that an insult to my choice.

 

 

I think most people look at the genuine courtesy behind prayers, blessings, best wishes, positive thoughts, etc. because it means someone is thinking of you and wants the best for you.

 

I do agree with Tan that it can be awkward or annoying when people with good intentions phrase those intentions in a crude way, they don't understand that they're coming off as judgemental.

 

 

Not sure if any of you are familiar with the missing girl from the Uk, Maddie McCann?

I haven't prayed for her per se, but I have left a message of support on her familys website.

 

Others are praying for her- the family are devout Catholics, and derive alot of comfort from all the support, prayer based or otherwise.

[quankanne]

the family … derive alot of comfort from all the support

 

which is what it's supposed to do, not make people feel like they're being picked on

[sb129]

the family … derive alot of comfort from all the support

 

which is what it's supposed to do, not make people feel like they're being picked on

 

Exactly.

 

So I don't get offended by that kind of prayer. Not at all.

 

You know what I mean by the other kind.

[RecordProducer]

I think the context is important.

Right! If someone tells you "Gosh, you're so f*cked up! I'll pray for you..."

 

I think people who don't believe in prayer are made uncomfortable by it. It is so intimate, like being naked, and if you don't believe in it, a little perverse.

I don't feel like being naked. When people talk about God in front of me, I feel like listening to kids talking about Santa Clause.

I apologize to all religious people... (giggling)

[disgracian]

It all depends on the connotations. Sometimes it is used patronisingly (usually in the middle or at the end of a debate), while other times it is sincere. I don't mind the latter type, but ultimately it is ineffectual and people will slowly come to realise this.

 

Cheers,

D.

[quankanne]

You know what I mean by the other kind.

 

yeah ... and it's a bummer, because you know their hearts are in the right place but their mouths make it seem otherwise! The ones that really kill me (and I'm thinking of a dear, dear relative who was "saved" when she started going to her husband's church) are those whose faith seems to be more of an indictment than anything else. Her favorite thing to say is "I know I've got Jesus in my heart and I'm saved, and I'm praying for so-and-so because he/she doesn't, you can tell by his/her actions."

 

*ahem* I always thought the hope of salvation was a gift to all, not just a chosen few who grab the brass ring!

 

It all depends on the connotations. Sometimes it is used patronisingly

 

LOL … is that kinda like the thing where Southerners will say "bless her heart" to negate the bad thing they've said about someone?

[lonelybird]

You know what I mean by the other kind.

 

yeah ... and it's a bummer, because you know their hearts are in the right place but their mouths make it seem otherwise! The ones that really kill me (and I'm thinking of a dear, dear relative who was "saved" when she started going to her husband's church) are those whose faith seems to be more of an indictment than anything else. Her favorite thing to say is "I know I've got Jesus in my heart and I'm saved, and I'm praying for so-and-so because he/she doesn't, you can tell by his/her actions."

 

*ahem* I always thought the hope of salvation was a gift to all, not just a chosen few who grab the brass ring!

 

It all depends on the connotations. Sometimes it is used patronisingly

 

LOL … is that kinda like the thing where Southerners will say "bless her heart" to negate the bad thing they've said about someone?

Quankanne

I don't understand why you want to critisize your own sisters and brothers all the time? Is this different than other judgement? do you want to seperate yourself from other christians because of unbelivers critique? make yourself clear?

 

I am sure I am not doing thing right ALL the time. but at least I am trying out of good intention in spite of wrong method sometimes and my own problems. I believe in God, and I have peace and love from God, because I feel this is good for people, I tell.

 

I really don't understand your critisize.

 

and yes, we have Holy Spirit inside of us, we speak truth that we are grass ring grab? at least we don't keep it secret, we want everyone to have it, that why we keep telling people, share with people

[lonelybird]

It all depends on the connotations. Sometimes it is used patronisingly (usually in the middle or at the end of a debate), while other times it is sincere. I don't mind the latter type, but ultimately it is ineffectual and people will slowly come to realise this.

 

Cheers,

D.

How do you know it is ineffectual? Do you know how Holy Spirit work in people's heart? How do you know Holy Spirit works whose heart? and did what kind of things?

[amaysngrace]

and yes, we have Holy Spirit inside of us, we speak truth that we are grass ring grab? at least we don't keep it secret, we want everyone to have it, that why we keep telling people, share with people

 

It is my observation that the best way to "preach" God is to "live" God.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

[lonelybird]

I don't shove anything down to people's throat. and I understand people's experience are very different, and they have their own right time to come to God.

 

But Holy Spirit is real, God is real, Jesus Christ is real, if this make me "unpleasant in some people's eyes", so be it.

 

At the end, God is the only one judge ALL

[lonelybird]

It is my observation that the best way to "preach" God is to "live" God.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

So you are saying my action is bad?

[lonelybird]

Preaching God's words is a way, good works are another way. All counts.

 

God's words itself has power, we believers deep count on God's words which is life

[lonelybird]

No offense but you sound like a hypocrite. You want others to see it from the way you do but if you offend them then so be it, you don't care.

 

So how is not caring about offending others trying to spread the good word exactly?

Where did i offend people? please clarify

[lonelybird]

No offense but you sound like a hypocrite. You want others to see it from the way you do but if you offend them then so be it, you don't care.

 

Please give me some evidence, so maybe I can do some self-check

[amaysngrace]

Preaching God's words is a way, good works are another way. All counts.

 

God's words itself has power, we believers deep count on God's words which is life

 

 

Okay so then where does "love thy neighbor as you'd love thyself" come into play? If you wish not to be offended by your neighbor then perhaps you shouldn't offend them.

 

Words have a way of being misconstrued. Which is why I say that actions speak louder than words.

 

Why not have the patience of Christ, the forgiveness of Christ, the love of everyone as Christ did? Live by example and others will know your goodness. Wear a cross if you must to show you have Christ. A subtle but powerful message. And it's really one that nobody finds offensive a little.

[lonelybird]

Okay so then where does "love thy neighbor as you'd love thyself" come into play? If you wish not to be offended by your neighbor then perhaps you shouldn't offend them.

 

Words have a way of being misconstrued. Which is why I say that actions speak louder than words.

 

Why not have the patience of Christ, the forgiveness of Christ, the love of everyone as Christ did? Live by example and others will know your goodness. Wear a cross if you must to show you have Christ. A subtle but powerful message. And it's really one that nobody finds offensive a little.

what you said is all good. I am asking you why call me a hypocrite, ask for evidence. I don't remember I called someone a hypocrite

[lonelybird]

Okay so then where does "love thy neighbor as you'd love thyself" come into play? If you wish not to be offended by your neighbor then perhaps you shouldn't offend them.

 

Words have a way of being misconstrued. Which is why I say that actions speak louder than words.

 

Why not have the patience of Christ, the forgiveness of Christ, the love of everyone as Christ did? Live by example and others will know your goodness. Wear a cross if you must to show you have Christ. A subtle but powerful message. And it's really one that nobody finds offensive a little.

what you said is all good. I am asking you why call me a hypocrite, ask for evidence. I don't remember I called someone a hypocrite as not patience as I am.

[amaysngrace]

what you said is all good. I am asking you why call me a hypocrite, ask for evidence. I don't remember I called someone a hypocrite

 

I guess it's just the vibe I got. You seem overly persuasive towards others who don't share your point of view and then say "so be it" when they find you unpleasant. Meanwhile you try to get the message of Jesus out there.

 

To me it seems as though you forgot to practice what you preach in this case. It is more of a "do what I say and not what I do" kinda thing.

[lonelybird]

To me it seems as though you forgot to practice what you preach in this case. It is more of a "do what I say and not what I do" kinda thing.

This is what exactly I ask you for evidence. "vibe"? so you mean others can post whatever, and I who believe in God, cannot post? If I do, then I don't practice? Please clarify. and you still didn't give one evidence.

 

If you mean "stop talking about Jesus" then I am ok in your dictionary?

 

and where I *overly* persude others? you mean I should not post about God?