Does he have a right?

[flgirly]

I need help. I have been with Mike for two years. I got pregnant right after we got together. I didn't want to have the baby, I wasn't ready. He told me that if I didn't have the baby, he would never be able to look at me again.

In the past two years, I have given him two businesses that he has failed at, and now I have asked him to get a job. He went out one day and put in applications, and then decided to make arrangements behind my back to go away overnight to take the ASVAB test.

He told me that it was to help him get a better job, but then two days later, he fessed up and told me the truth, that he intends to enlist in the National Guard.

I told him that that lifestyle isn't right for me, and he told me that he doesn't care about what's right for me.

I told him that a man with a family has no right to make a decision like that arbitrarily. Am I wrong?

 

Please, give me some advice.

[LoveLace]

Are you serious? I mean is this for real?

 

It's way over the top-ignorant to threaten the relationship if you don't have his child, and now he's going to leave you and child? And he doesn't care what you think? He is not being a family man, nor does it sound like he wants to be. Let him go and I personally don't even think he deserves parental rights but you'll have to deal with that no matter what. He sounds like a royal a**hole....sorry...

[flgirly]

Lovelace, thank you for the support. That's the same way I feel about it. However, when I showed him this post, he said that I was lying and that he never said that he didn't care what I thought. And that I left out all of his reasoning. So to be fair, I will repost.

 

His arguements are that he can go to school for free, he can get the best medical benefits, and he can have a plan for retirement.

 

My arguements are that he can go to school with grants and student loans, that he can get medical benefits from a job, and that we have other avenues to plan for retirement.

 

I say that it is wrong for a man with a 16 month old baby to leave home for six weeks to go to Boot Camp for the National Guard.

 

I say that it's wrong for a man who emotionally blackmail a woman into having a baby that she isn't ready for and then abandon them for six weeks of boot camp and one weekend EVERY MONTH for years.

 

I say that it's wrong for ANY man to make a decision like this arbitrarily if his partner is against it.

 

I say that a military lifestyle is not for me. That if I ever thought he would do this, than I would not have had a child with him. I think that deserves a lot of weight in the issue.

 

I say this is just plain wrong. My father, a family man in the truest sense, would never, ever have left his wife and 16 month old child. Not for six weeks, not for 1 night.

 

Is there anyone that thinks that all of the "benefits and perks" are worth losing your wife and child over?

[LoveLace]

Yes I still think he's being an a**hole. Your idea for school is a way to compromise, his idea is a way to say screw you I don't care how you feel or how it effects you or my child. He's being selfish. Major changes or decisions like that are supposed to be a family decision. His biggest concern should be the happiness and safety of you and the child. But instead, his biggest concern is himself only. That's ok before you have a family. He at least should wait until the child is older (when I say older I mean 7 or 8 - or whatever might be acceptable to you) to do anything that requires him to be away for a long time.

 

However, I once had a boyfriend that could never find his place in the job world...job-hopped like crazy. But he finally joined the military, and he does get good benefits, will retire early, and has a family; but they do have to relocate from time to time. Military is actually the right thing for some people. But this man is wrong for threatening the relationship if you didn't have the baby, only to find a reason to turn right around and leave for a long time, leaving you to deal with a new child. His timing for this decision is bad, basically. He should be willing to compromise with you some way or another...if not, he doesn't care about your happiness or much about the kid.

[flgirly]

Lovelace,

Thank you for the support. That is exactly how I feel. He doesn't understand. He just keeps telling me that he's made the decision and that he knows that it's the right thing to do and that if it he joins it will either make us stronger or if we break up because of it, it will make him a better man regardless.

 

I have told him over and over again, that I love him and that I am only holding out hope that when the time comes, he either won't like what the recruiter says or he won't pass the physical, or that he'll just come to realize that it isn't fair to me and that he'll change his mind.

 

I have also told him that for now, I dont' want to fight about it. He knows how I feel, and that I can't make any guarantees about how I will feel or what I will do if he comes home and tells me he enlisted, that it's his gamble to take, and that I think he's betting on the don't pass line. I have told him that he knows how I feel, and that I'm not going to fight about it anymore. I can hold out hope that he doesn't do it, but that if he does, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, but not to expect me to stay. As I said, he's betting on the don't pass line and as an experienced craps player, that's a bet I would NEVER make.

 

I have also told him that I'll never be able to trust him if he goes through with it because I will never know what the next life changing decision will be that he will make regardless of how I feel about it.

 

I knew the outcome if I didn't have the baby, and so I had the baby. He knows the outcome of this event, so the ball is in his court. I told him I have major trust issues with him because of the way he emotionally blackmailed me into having a baby I wasn't ready for, and now emotionally blackmailing me again if I dont' support HIS DECISION. I thought when you had a family, all decisions became OURS... at least that's they way my parents marriage was.

 

I wouldn't so much as commit to a four year car payment without he and I both agreeing to it, and that's a thing you can quit, or give back. It may ruin your credit, but the Army you can't quit. There is no getting out. And he wants to commit to that for six years.

 

What would come next? He wants to reenlist for another six years and I don't get a choice in that either? I will never be able to trust him again.

 

I am going to hold a wait and see position for the moment, but if he joins, he will return from boot camp to find an empty house.

 

Even if he doesn't, I think we would need some serious counseling to get past the fact that he uses emotional blackmail to try to bully me into submission. He did that with the baby, with his businesses, and now with this.....but that's only if this doesn't happen.. if it does, there will be no point to counseling, because it will be over.

 

I owe it to my kid to try to work this out with him and not give up totally because of something that may or may not happen, but if it does happen, there will be no going back.

 

Thanks again for your support lovelace. It is appreciated. Everyone I've talked to agrees with me, except his family who either say it isn't their place to tell him what to do (with the exception of his brother who IS in the Guard and is running around making all the arrangements for Mike so that he can get in).... but everyone else agrees that this is wrong. EVERYONE. And he says he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Yet, then he turns around and tries to tell me that he's not being selfish in this decision.

 

He needs the spoiled brat reality check. And that's all I'm gonna say for now.

 

 

thanks.

[flgirly]

Lovelace,

Thank you for the support. That is exactly how I feel. He doesn't understand. He just keeps telling me that he's made the decision and that he knows that it's the right thing to do and that if it he joins it will either make us stronger or if we break up because of it, it will make him a better man regardless.

 

I have told him over and over again, that I love him and that I am only holding out hope that when the time comes, he either won't like what the recruiter says or he won't pass the physical, or that he'll just come to realize that it isn't fair to me and that he'll change his mind.

 

I have also told him that for now, I dont' want to fight about it. He knows how I feel, and that I can't make any guarantees about how I will feel or what I will do if he comes home and tells me he enlisted, that it's his gamble to take, and that I think he's betting on the don't pass line. I have told him that he knows how I feel, and that I'm not going to fight about it anymore. I can hold out hope that he doesn't do it, but that if he does, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, but not to expect me to stay. As I said, he's betting on the don't pass line and as an experienced craps player, that's a bet I would NEVER make.

 

I have also told him that I'll never be able to trust him if he goes through with it because I will never know what the next life changing decision will be that he will make regardless of how I feel about it.

 

I knew the outcome if I didn't have the baby, and so I had the baby. He knows the outcome of this event, so the ball is in his court. I told him I have major trust issues with him because of the way he emotionally blackmailed me into having a baby I wasn't ready for, and now emotionally blackmailing me again if I dont' support HIS DECISION. I thought when you had a family, all decisions became OURS... at least that's they way my parents marriage was.

 

I wouldn't so much as commit to a four year car payment without he and I both agreeing to it, and that's a thing you can quit, or give back. It may ruin your credit, but the Army you can't quit. There is no getting out. And he wants to commit to that for six years.

 

What would come next? He wants to reenlist for another six years and I don't get a choice in that either? I will never be able to trust him again.

 

I am going to hold a wait and see position for the moment, but if he joins, he will return from boot camp to find an empty house.

 

Even if he doesn't, I think we would need some serious counseling to get past the fact that he uses emotional blackmail to try to bully me into submission. He did that with the baby, with his businesses, and now with this.....but that's only if this doesn't happen.. if it does, there will be no point to counseling, because it will be over.

 

I owe it to my kid to try to work this out with him and not give up totally because of something that may or may not happen, but if it does happen, there will be no going back.

 

Thanks again for your support lovelace. It is appreciated. Everyone I've talked to agrees with me, except his family who either say it isn't their place to tell him what to do (with the exception of his brother who IS in the Guard and is running around making all the arrangements for Mike so that he can get in).... but everyone else agrees that this is wrong. EVERYONE. And he says he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Yet, then he turns around and tries to tell me that he's not being selfish in this decision.

 

He needs the spoiled brat reality check. And that's all I'm gonna say for now.

 

 

thanks.

[flgirly]

Lovelace,

Thank you for the support. That is exactly how I feel. He doesn't understand. He just keeps telling me that he's made the decision and that he knows that it's the right thing to do and that if it he joins it will either make us stronger or if we break up because of it, it will make him a better man regardless.

 

I have told him over and over again, that I love him and that I am only holding out hope that when the time comes, he either won't like what the recruiter says or he won't pass the physical, or that he'll just come to realize that it isn't fair to me and that he'll change his mind.

 

I have also told him that for now, I dont' want to fight about it. He knows how I feel, and that I can't make any guarantees about how I will feel or what I will do if he comes home and tells me he enlisted, that it's his gamble to take, and that I think he's betting on the don't pass line. I have told him that he knows how I feel, and that I'm not going to fight about it anymore. I can hold out hope that he doesn't do it, but that if he does, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, but not to expect me to stay. As I said, he's betting on the don't pass line and as an experienced craps player, that's a bet I would NEVER make.

 

I have also told him that I'll never be able to trust him if he goes through with it because I will never know what the next life changing decision will be that he will make regardless of how I feel about it.

 

I knew the outcome if I didn't have the baby, and so I had the baby. He knows the outcome of this event, so the ball is in his court. I told him I have major trust issues with him because of the way he emotionally blackmailed me into having a baby I wasn't ready for, and now emotionally blackmailing me again if I dont' support HIS DECISION. I thought when you had a family, all decisions became OURS... at least that's they way my parents marriage was.

 

I wouldn't so much as commit to a four year car payment without he and I both agreeing to it, and that's a thing you can quit, or give back. It may ruin your credit, but the Army you can't quit. There is no getting out. And he wants to commit to that for six years.

 

What would come next? He wants to reenlist for another six years and I don't get a choice in that either? I will never be able to trust him again.

 

I am going to hold a wait and see position for the moment, but if he joins, he will return from boot camp to find an empty house.

 

Even if he doesn't, I think we would need some serious counseling to get past the fact that he uses emotional blackmail to try to bully me into submission. He did that with the baby, with his businesses, and now with this.....but that's only if this doesn't happen.. if it does, there will be no point to counseling, because it will be over.

 

I owe it to my kid to try to work this out with him and not give up totally because of something that may or may not happen, but if it does happen, there will be no going back.

 

Thanks again for your support lovelace. It is appreciated. Everyone I've talked to agrees with me, except his family who either say it isn't their place to tell him what to do (with the exception of his brother who IS in the Guard and is running around making all the arrangements for Mike so that he can get in).... but everyone else agrees that this is wrong. EVERYONE. And he says he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Yet, then he turns around and tries to tell me that he's not being selfish in this decision.

 

He needs the spoiled brat reality check. And that's all I'm gonna say for now.

 

 

thanks.

[Curmudgeon]

I told him that that lifestyle isn't right for me, and he told me that he doesn't care about what's right for me.

 

I told him that a man with a family has no right to make a decision like that arbitrarily. Am I wrong?

 

First of all, assuming you are and were a competent adult you could have freely made the choice not to have the child despite his "threat." That being said, it was totally inappropriate of him to threaten. But that doesn't really matter now. Your child is a reality.

 

Now for the rest. You haven't addressed his real reason for considering joining the military, just the fact that he is and you don't like it. As one who grew up in a military family and spent 12 years as an Army officer I well understand that a full military life is not for everyone. However six-eight weeks of basic training is NOT the end of the world. And by the way, that would likely be folowed by eight weeks or more of advanced individual training, depending upon what military occupational specialty (MOS) he's enlisted for.

 

Thereafter, one weekend a month with a six year obligation is nothing. If you can't handle that then the two of you probably don't belong together in the first place, which sounds highly likely regardless.

 

As for all the rest, you both sound quite emotionally immature. It all seems to boil down to a power struggle and a rather childish defiance on his part responded to by the drawing of a line in the sand on your part.

 

I think the two of you would benefit from some couples counseling on communication techniques, if nothing else.

[flgirly]

Sorry, but I think that the only one who can decide if six weeks of being alone is nothing, is ME. For some people, it might be NOTHING. But for me, it is unacceptable. It is not what my idea of a family is. And it's not at all what I signed on for.

[nittygritty]

Sorry, but I think that the only one who can decide if six weeks of being alone is nothing, is ME. For some people, it might be NOTHING. But for me, it is unacceptable. It is not what my idea of a family is. And it's not at all what I signed on for.

 

Six weeks isn't very long when you compare it to the next 17 years of raising your child by yourself.

 

I agree with Curmudgeon. Marriage Counseling might help your relationship.

 

It sounds like your boyfriend may resent all of the help you have been providing him. Have you ever thrown it in his face that he failed at the two businesses you gave him?

[Curmudgeon]

And it's not at all what I signed on for.

 

...you are certainly free to leave the building, a la Elvis!

 

So buy him another business to not take care of and maintain, then come back and tell us how bad it is.

 

I'm sorry! In fact, I'm sorry for both of you and your child. I still think both of you have a lot of growing up to do.

 

Times and circumstances change. Life isn't a static proposition. People's needs, wants and desires shift over time. We try, we experiment, we fail, we try again, we might succeed. You cannot always map out life as you think it should be. Look at Paris Hilton!

 

Do you also disagree that the two of you need counseling? If so, your only alternative would appear to be to toss out the relationship, cut your losses and go on with your life unencumbered.

 

It's unfortunate that none of this was spelled out and agreed to in your enlistment papers!

[nittygritty]

You say that you have now asked him to get a job and his solution was to enlist without talking to you. It sounds like he may be feeling like you have been controlling his decisions. The unplanned pregnancy probably has forced you both to be parents before your ready.

 

If you want your relationship to work there has to be some compromise. He did tell you before he enlisted. Give him a little bit of benefit of doubt.

Talk to him calmly about your feelings and listen to his feelings. Maybe he wants to be able to provide for his family and get an education without getting into serious debt? Doesn't sound like he is a bad person to me.

 

I could understand why you might have a problem with him joining the military while we are at war but you only said you had a problem with 6 weeks of basic training. Do you love this man?

[flgirly]

nittygritty, you commented that six weeks isn't very long when you compare it to 17 years of raising a child alone.

 

It's that kind of emotional blackmail that led to the child's existence in the first place.

 

And I have addressed his reasons. Free school, medical benefits, and retirement. Those are his reasons. His other reasons are that he could go to nursing school, become a pilot, be an officer that his brother would have to salute.

 

I have offered compromises. He can go to school with grants and student loans. He could get medical benefits from a job.

 

His reply is that he's going to get a job too.

 

I say for the past two years, I haven't gotten him to get out of bed or up off the couch, but he's going to now, be in the National Guard, work a full-time job, restart one of the businesses and go to school. So now he's taking even more time away from his family.

 

Curmudgeon, as for my 'emotional immaturity', at the age of 30 years old I ran an extremely successful business with close to a million dollars in assets. I didn't acheive that with emotional immaturity.

 

My pregnancy was very difficult. I was in and out of the hospital and on bed rest a lot. Our son was born 2 months premature, he spent 6 and a half weeks in a hospital before he came home. I lost almost a year of work with that pregnancy and it set us back.

 

That is why I asked him to get a job. That and the fact that I couldn't stand to see him wasting his life away lying in bed all day or on the couch all day.

 

He does seem to be depressed, but he thinks that joining the military is going to fix that problem. I say if he got a job with benefits, he could see a doctor and get the same results.

 

Yes, needs, wants and desires change over time. That goes without saying, but when you commit to a child and a FAMILY, your needs, wants and desires now must take a back seat to what is BEST for your family. And an unhappy, lonely mother is not good for the child.

 

And yes nittygritty, I am well aware that HE FEELS as if I'm controlling his decisions, since I have always supported us, but the fact is, all of the decisions in this relationship have been his. The decision to have a baby was his, both businesses were his decisions. There have been a few *other* decisions as well that were his that I wont' mention here, because they involve members of his family and it's too long to go into. But basically it has always been, ' do as I want or I will leave you, or I won't love you anymore.'

 

And for the record, the issue is not whether or not he TOLD me before he enlisted, the issue is that he made the decision arbitrarily without any input from me at all, and without any consideration of how I felt about it. He DECIDED. That's all she wrote. There was not so much as a 'how would you feel about it?' put to me. I should also mention probably that this decision came about after an entire month of fighting and happened in the middle of it.

 

Curmudgeon, no, I absolutely not disagree with you at all that we could benefit from counseling. I have offered. His response was "well, we can do that once I'm in the Army".... there is no tabling the isssue, or discussing the issue, or exploring other options, there is only him once again forcing another lifestyle that I am not cut out for down my throat or he won't love me anymore.

 

nittygirty, of course I am concerned about him joining while we are at war... but he believes his brother and the recruiter when they tell him that the unit he's joining doesn't get deployed. And so I didn't mention my fear of that because he would have SCREAMED at me for not telling the "whole story' about how he's been assured that his unit wont' be deployed.

 

As far as whether or not I love this man...... I will always love him. But I wont trust him. When this tour is up, and he wants to do something else, or re-enlist and I'm against it, then what? I go through all of this emotional blackmail all over again? Either way, as I see it, I'll be raising my son alone becuase with the Guard, and a full time job, and school, and his business... when would have time for his family anymore anyway? And if I suffer through a military life, I will be unhappy and that will hurt my child. And if I lose my partner, I will be unhappy and my child will suffer for it.

 

My only regret is that I brought a child into this world based on the emotional blackmail of a spoiled child who will scream and stomp his feet and throw temper tantrums until he gets his way.

 

Thanks for the place to put my feelings. So far no one in here has told me nothing that I didn't already know. Threatening to leave me if I didn't have the child was wrong, I knew it then, but I thought it was love for me and the baby and a family that brought him to it.. now I can see that he is just a bully and a spoiled little brat who will have his way.... there is no consideration for what I think is best for our family, and I am just not the kind of a woman whose opinion will be so summarily dismissed.

 

The fact that we can't have a conversation about it or talk about, the high handed "I'm gonna do what I want" attitude proves that me and my thoughts, feelings and emotions are of no value to him. This is the end.

[Curmudgeon]

If it's any help, I pulled something similar on the ex. We married when I returned from almost two years in Vietnam and on the Korean DMZ. I gave civilian life a good try and decided I really didn't care for it. I was a military brat and had become an Army officer and I missed it.

 

One day, after being laid off from a job (second layoff in six months) and after several years of struggling financially while working fulltime and carrying 15 units in college and having a wife and two children by them, I'd had enough. I signed the paperwork to return to active duty, came home, told the then wife and that was that! She was not pleased.

 

I left the military again about eight years later but went into law enforcement. She was not pleased about that either. Eight years after that I resigned from law enforcement and entered my current profession where I've been for the past 17 years. I don't care whether or not she's pleased because we divorced 13 years ago and she doesn't matter.

 

My point is, sometimes people just do what they feel they have to do. Either you roll with the punches (I have to give the ex credit for going along as long as she did) or you don't.

 

For the record, emotional maturity is not counted in years lived or dollars earned.

 

It sounds like you've made up your mind. I hope that's what proves best for you and your child.

[nittygritty]

I agree, it is a bad situation.

 

I hope that both of your decisions of how to fix the problems are based on what would be best for your son.