Should I just accept this guy will be a primary friend?

[Brad_from_NJ]

Should I just accept this guy will be a primary friend in her life? Or is there more?

 

 

Sorry for the length.

 

I'm involved in a long-distance relationship. My GF is recently divorced, I'm separated (my divorce final w/in 3 mos). We're both in our 40's. We dated back in high school/college, re-connected via the web a year ago. I'm currently living several hundred miles away, but will relocate to her area as soon as possible (that process has begun). We've been traveling between her place and mine, getting together every 4-6 weeks.

 

We talk almost daily by phone (but sometimes only for a few moments to say hi).

 

One thorny issue.

 

There's a married male co-worker (her supervisor's boss) she's become extremely chummy with. She began a new job in a different department at work last fall, I started hearing about this guy in late February. She swears they're friends only. I believe there's been no physical relationship. I appreciate her honesty in telling me of the friendship. When I first heard this, I told her I was a little uncomfortable -- guys don't "need" female friends -- he might just be placing himself on her radar scope for the future.

 

Her reply was "We work together, and we are friends -- but I don't want you feeling uneasy about this -- so I won't mention his name again!" I told her I'd actually like MORE info, not less. She tried hard not to bring his name up for several weeks.

 

Periodically, she'd slip...and she'd mention (off the cuff) that they sometimes call each other on the cell before work, after work, or that "I called him up last night" or on evenings and weekends. And they've been out socially, too.

 

The fact that she tells me this stuff, leads me to think nothing is happening ...physically. But I get the feeling that *emotionally* they're close. On my visit to see her this weekend, she told me that she "wouldn't answer calls from friends, to focus on us." When her girl friends would call, she would listen to the voice mail and then tell me about those calls.

 

But there were at least 6 or 7 calls where she'd pick up the ringing phone, look at it, then put the phone down again.

 

I was curious and did something completely out of character. When she wasn't around, I snooped at her phone (OK, I wouldn't like it if someone did that to me...but I've nothing to hide). Turns out this guy called her multiple times Friday night, Saturday and also Sunday) ...and left several text messages. All the texts from him seemed pretty innocent.

 

But that's a lot of calls & texts (my opinion) from a married guy friend over two and a half days. It's more than I call her! And, she's still trying to keep this guy's name out of our conversations.

 

Even though it's wrong, I honestly wish I had a few moments more to see if she called him, or sent texts to him in reply! I know that's pretty scummy to think that.

 

She told me she was out on Thursday with friends, but, she neglected to say he was there too (I learned that from his texts). I'm discovering this happens more than I'm being told.

 

She told me early on he was 32 or 33. I've now learned he's just 3 years younger than us.

 

When I first discussed this, she told me she "didn't want me to get upset/have my feelings hurt" and that "it's just a friendship, let it go." I've tried not bringing it up too often/pestering her about it. But, every time I bring this guy's name up (I want information...like how often do they talk), she gets extremely defensive, changes the subject, answers my question with her own ("if he had breasts instead of a penis, would you care?") and accuses me of "getting weird" or not trusting her.

 

I feel like I get half an answer sometimes. And I hate the idea of nagging or inquiring about her whereabouts. I only want to understand the extent/depth of the friendship. And I told her that ... "I won't judge, just give me the facts, then I can decide if I am OK with that, or not."

 

She doesn't want to give me answers or information.

Which makes me uncomfortable.

 

And I feel that if I bring it continuously or press the issue too much, it will probably cause some resentment. Grrr, long distances make it tough!

 

We still talk nearly every day, but it's getting less and less. Still, when we see each other in person, it's all smiles, kisses and "I love you's." And lots of great physical contact. I just need to get beyond this, one way or the other.

 

I don't think it's this particular guy, I think it's a trust issue.

 

So I'm confused. Am I making a big deal out of a male friend, or the lack of information/hiding/deceptive ways? I do feel crappy about snooping in her phone.

 

I told her this weekend I used to be a self-assured, funny, confident person. But lately I've become an insecure weenie, which is destructive and very unattractive.

 

Any thoughts?

[BlueEyedSarah]

Yes it is unattractive which is proberbly why she is 'calling you less'. You are going to push this girl away with always questioning her about this guy friend of hers.

 

I do think it is a little odd that he is calling her this much especially since he is a married man with he's own life ect. I think maybe this guy may feel something more than a friendship for your girlfriend.

 

As far as anything happening between them...I'm sure she would tell you, she is proberbly trying to keep the peace between her and the co-worker due to the risk of her job. She is a grown woman, she has her own choices.

 

Just let the friendship between them be what it is..it must be difficult for her to try keep things easy by trying to respect your feelings and by keeping things simple with a work colegue.

[Brad_from_NJ]

Hi Sarah,thanks for the reply. I'm trying to be mindful not to nag or bring it up, but when it does come up, the conversation gets ugly...I want to know what's up, which makes me sound suspicious, not trusting, insecure. Yuck.

 

She has said that she knows his wife and nothing would ever happen, but this guy seems to have loads of time to spend with (or chatting with) my GF. They both run (as do I), and I suspect they will be running/training together for an upcoming marathon (they are both signed up for the company team).

 

The whole thing is awkward, and I don't want to press the issue since I believe that will cause resentment in the future. Thanks for listening, and for your comments.

[Bryanp]

Hello,

 

Sorry I totally disagree. I think this is something to very much be concerned about. Clearly she is in what we call an emotional affair. She tells you half truths and lies about his age and going to places where he is. He continues to call her all through the weekend? He is married but an enormous amount of time to contact your girlfriend before work, during work, after work and nonstop on weekends?

 

My friend this is a huge red flag. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think your girlfriend would be so accepting if you were involved in such a strong emotional relationship with another woman?

 

By the way her comment that she knows the OM's wife and therefore nothing physical will occur is absolutely ludicrous. She is already taking emotional time away from his wife. There is a whole bunch of women as well as men who have cheated with married people even though they knew the person's spouse.

 

I think you need to ask yourself if you wish to be in an exclusive relationship where you have to share your girlfriend at the least emotionally with another man. I think your girlfriend is a potential cake-eater who wishes to have a boyfriend and also an emotionally connected married male friend on the side as well. Ask yourself why a married man needs to spend so much time with your girlfriend? Again if the roles were reversed I doubt she would put up with such disrespectful behavior from you so why are you accepting it? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Please do not settle for this. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

[nicki]

Um, I guess I'm confused. Why does she have to call him up before or after work to talk? Can't they just be friendly co-workers during office hours instead of after hour "friends."

 

Can't calls be limited to work issues? That's how most married/commited women act with male coworkers to avoid any appearance of impropriety.

 

Maybe I'm just hopelessly old fashioned about this kind of stuff, but LDRs are especially vulnerable and need extra doses of reassurance of trust and fidelity.

[Aloros]

It's a little bit of a thorny issue, and I can see why you might feel apprehensive. He is texting and calling her an awful lot, and there is the possibility that he might be interested in your gf. I don't, however, think she has interest in him. She's been so honest and open with you, and these things have to run both ways for an affair to develop.

 

My bf and I each have close friends of the opposite sex, and we both know there's nothing going on there other than friendship. It helps that I've met all of them, have seen the way they interact, and they all know who I am before I meet them (he adds in "I've told so-and-so all about you" and from their reactions, everything he's said seems to be positive!).

 

Is there any way you could hang out with them, together, to meet this guy and get a feel for their interactions? If he is interested in her, meeting you might make him back off a bit. Right now you're just this faceless LD entity, and so much about these affairs is based in fantasy. Who knows? Maybe you'll even like him, and the four of you could go on a double date.

 

Just keep in mind that if she's going to cheat, she'll cheat, with or without your suspicions and any intervention. And if she does, she's not worth your time or effort. So definitely keep an open eye, because this is venturing into questionable territory, but at the same time, don't let your fears run your life.

 

Good luck!

[Cobra_X30]

Brad... this lady sounds so scetchy. Why doesnt SHE move closer to you? Do you know why she got divorced in the first place??? Nearly 70% of second marriages fail.

 

Notice that it seems like you are doing all of the risking and trusting for this relationship??

 

You are out of town so you dont really know what is going on here. Straight up you need to put your foot down. Tell her that you are not comfortable with the situation, that she has to VALUE how you feel instead of excusing her behavior. Tell her that you feel she is robbing this guys wife of quality time and that you dont feel you could be with someone who would wreck another persons marriage.

 

You will never know if she is just playing with you unless you threaten to end the relationship. If she changes that means you have value to her. If not your saving yourself A lot of time and life energy.

[Brad_from_NJ]

Hey Cobra, thanks for the reply. She cannot move out of state since she has children from the marriage.

 

The distance definitely makes it tougher than other relationships, no question.

 

I do agree with you that a lot of energy and time is being expended on this. I need to reach a conclusion on this. Thanks.

[Baybee9404]

Brad personally if i was you and she had nothing to hide then I would tell her the next time you are visiting her to set up a date for you to meet her male friend and go have lunch together or do something else. If she says no or makes excusses as to why he cant go etc then something is going on. Because if she has nothing to hide then she will have no problem at all with you meeting her friend. that is just my thoughts good luck with her.

[Brad_from_NJ]

Thanks Baybee. I will definitely be doing that. The only problem is I just returned from seeing her a few days ago (we are several hundred miles apart), and likely won't be getting to see each other (in her town where this friend/co-worker/supervisor is) till September.

 

Till then, it's just phone...some email/texts, etc.

And every time the topic comes up, the conversations become more animated, more intense. She thinks it truly is harmless (and at present, it *might* be), I disagree, but I have no information...I'm in a vacuum.

[norajane]

To me, it sounds like she enjoys having a boyfriend (you), and having a non-boyfriend friend-boy (him). That you are long distance makes this a perfect arrangement for her. She gets to spend all the time she wants with him, flirting and having fun, while you are away.

 

Fact is, if he weren't married, she'd be dating him. They both like each other, have work and running and whatever in common, rely on each other for entertainment and conversation and do a lot of talking and spending lots of time together, and are probably attracted to each other. His wife should be even more concerned than you are, to be honest. There's very little stopping them from taking it to another level, except that perhaps he does honor his marriage vows, though he is spending far too much of his emotional energy on another woman.

 

I know this because I've done this. She's his office wife. That's the term that's used when there's a work couple that's very close personally, but married (or committed) to other people. The only thing preventing them from getting together is the strength of their commitment to those other people.

 

The sh*t is going to hit the fan when you move there. She's not going to want to cut down on the time she spends with him. The texts and calls will continue. The marathon training, the after work drinks, the dinner...all of that will continue. And all the while, she'll swear up and down that nothing is going on - and in her mind, it isn't because they aren't having sex. It will be up to you if you can handle it - apparently his wife can. Personally, I see it as trouble, something that takes a lot of her emotional energy away from you.

 

I wish I had good advice, but I don't. Nothing stops this train unless his wife puts her foot down.

[Brad_from_NJ]

I wish you had good advice too. But I think you are right.

 

And that makes me sick. As much as I really would prefer to avoid a confrontation, this needs to be brought out into the light, I think that's the direction this is heading. Yuck.

[Cobra_X30]

Hey Brad,

 

Do you know anyone in her area that can do a short investigation for you?

 

And have you looked into having a short chat with this guys wife? Not to try and cause trouble, but to quickly discuss the situation on the down low.

 

I mean you could call this lady up and hear her say that they are separated because he is having an affiar at the office. Or she could be tottally unaware. Either way your GF is in a very unhealthy relationship... and everyone needs to have an eye on this.

 

You said she has already had 1 failed marriage. Do you know why it didnt work? You may want to factor that into your long term thinking.

 

If she cheated or was cheated on then that puts her in a very high risk category to commit that type of behavior.

[Brad_from_NJ]

Hi Cobra,

 

I understand what you are saying, and you raise some valid points, but let me respond...

 

I really don't even want to do that, or go there. Sorry. If I can't get the truth from her, I'm not going to spend a cent (or a minute of my time) on investigating. I already feel awful about snooping in her phone. I should not have done that.

 

I know she lied to me about the guy's age, and has been less than forthright regarding their amount of contact. But I'm still wrestling with whether or not I want to turn this "battle" into WW III -- or is this something I should sweep under the rug, in an effort to "see the big picture." You know, you gotta pick your battles. Sometimes you gotta skip a battle in order to win the war.

 

And yes, the reason I'm on this board is because I'm still not sure!

 

I still want to believe that the reason she's not giving me all the info is because she knows how unsettled it makes me feel. I have asked her to please give me more information going forward, so i can put my mind at ease. We'll see how that unfolds.

 

So, as convoluted as it sounds to me (and probably to other males), I can actually "understand" if she hasn't given me total disclosure on this friendship. Either this is actually is a very "loving" decision -- to filter the information (in deference to my feelings) -- or a very evil decision to keep this a secret!

 

So, who is she...an angel or a devil? The body of evidence still points to her being pretty trustworthy, very caring and very loving. It's just this one area that is "cloudy." Does that make sense?

 

I'll confess, finding out "new information" later (after the fact) doesn't make me feel any better! This is where my issues are...I have to learn to trust...even though it may mean I get severely burned in the process!

 

It's a risk I have to take.

 

Her first marriage ended because the guy couldn't get his drinking under control and it became a serious issue.

 

I'm really uncomfortable reaching out to people like this guy's wife, who I don't know (heck, I've never even met him!), and asking personal questions. That would raise lots of questions, in all directions. Might as well end things if that's the next step.

 

 

Your thoughts?

[norajane]

So, as convoluted as it sounds to me (and probably to other males), I can actually "understand" if she hasn't given me total disclosure on this friendship. Either this is actually is a very "loving" decision -- to filter the information (in deference to my feelings) -- or a very evil decision to keep this a secret!

 

So, who is she...an angel or a devil?

 

Well, speaking from experience, either way, she's lying to you. And hiding things from you. And keeping secrets from you. Which means, she's perfectly capable of deceiving you. How do you possibly maintain trust when you know that for a fact? How will you know when she's deceiving you about something else?

 

Second, she believes she's angel because she hasn't had sex with him. That's the thing - she doesn't feel guilty because she doesn't believe she's doing a thing wrong just because she hasn't had sex with him. But that's the only thing she's not doing.

 

She's not getting it that she's having an emotional affair with this guy. So anything she tells you, she'll be saying with perfect conviction. "nothing's going on" "we're just friends" "I didn't mention it because I knew it would upset you"

 

Not only can she say it convincingly because she believes it, she can feel all self-righteous with you for making such a big deal. She's not having sex with him, so of course, you are being the bad guy for being so upset. "i'm not doing anything wrong - he's too controlling, he's being selfish, he's not concerned with my feelings..."

 

It's not a loving decision. It's a selfish, self-centered one. She's lying because she wants to have this guy in her life as she wants him without having to answer to you, or change anything about her friendship with him.

 

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I'm just saying don't buy into her having these altruistic, loving motives for lying to you and hiding the extent of her relationship with this guy to protect you and your feelings. She's only protecting herself and her relationship with this guy.

[bish]

Any thoughts?

 

Yes, her relationship with this guy is completely inappropriate. I can't imagine being friends with another woman in that way if my wife really feels strongly against it.

[bish]

Yes it is unattractive which is proberbly why she is 'calling you less'. You are going to push this girl away with always questioning her about this guy friend of hers.

 

Sounds like he needs to dump her anyway. Her relationship with another guy that calls constantly and texts her all the time on a weekend night is not appropriate if she is to have a committed relationship with Brad.

 

Sounds like this guy was desperately trying to get a booty call in and she couldn't answer because Brad was right there.

[bish]

Hi Sarah,thanks for the reply. I'm trying to be mindful not to nag or bring it up, but when it does come up, the conversation gets ugly...I want to know what's up, which makes me sound suspicious, not trusting, insecure. Yuck.

 

She has said that she knows his wife and nothing would ever happen,

 

 

That the only reason nothing would happen? Because she knows his wife?

 

I say you just need to dump her.

[Brad_from_NJ]

She's not getting it that she's having an emotional affair with this guy. So anything she tells you, she'll be saying with perfect conviction. "nothing's going on" "we're just friends" "I didn't mention it because I knew it would upset you"

 

Not only can she say it convincingly because she believes it, she can feel all self-righteous with you for making such a big deal. She's not having sex with him, so of course, you are being the bad guy for being so upset. "i'm not doing anything wrong - he's too controlling, he's being selfish, he's not concerned with my feelings..."

 

It's not a loving decision. It's a selfish, self-centered one. She's lying because she wants to have this guy in her life as she wants him without having to answer to you, or change anything about her friendship with him.

 

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I'm just saying don't buy into her having these altruistic, loving motives for lying to you and hiding the extent of her relationship with this guy to protect you and your feelings. She's only protecting herself and her relationship with this guy.

 

 

Hi NoraJane,

 

Well, you are pressing MY buttons now, because everything I take from your two replies seems really dead-on accurate. And that makes me sick.

 

Yuck.

 

So, the next question is, how can I communicate to her all of this without coming off looking like a cranky, demanding, bad guy from hundreds of miles away? Do I ask/demand she break things off? Wouldn't that cause more strain and resentment? And if she's so clever, she could simply tell me she has broken things off with this co-worker she is with 9-10 hours a day...and I'll never know. Grrr!

 

This may be a question only I can answer, but is this worth a horrible confrontation, let it eat away at me (no!) or do I just disappear? See, she doesn't know I'm aware of these lies, and doesn't know I snooped in her phone to see the texts and the calls. So I'd have to bring these matters up somehow if I go the confrontational route. But whenever we get into this topic, as NoraJane knows, she gets indignant and I immediately become the bad guy for questioning the friendship.

 

What a drag.

 

Look, I know I clearly have more emotionally invested in this relationship. The whole thing just seems a bit crushing, incredibly. I wish it were not true, but what NoraJane has spelled out is hitting too close to home.

 

OK, fire away...

[Cobra_X30]

Hey Brad,

 

Yeah what Norajane said is spot on. However, you seem to be emotionally invested in this woman, so Im going to take a different tack on this.

 

She seems to be passive aggressive, so by hiding this from you she is simply avoiding conflict. Therefore, if you come back and tell her that after much thought and seeing how much she loves and respects you that you feel silly for not trusting her in the first place. Let her know that you no longer have jealous feelings, and that you realize her friendship with this guy is a signifigant part of her life. If she is just avoiding conflict with you then once the threat of conflict is removed she should begin to open up about this again. Definitly keep track of her... Snoop like crazy and dont get caught. She is going to reveal alot more of what is going on when she feels comfortable.

 

If I were you I would also take this time to do some dating, you may find someone better.

 

What kind of job does she have that requires this kind of comraderie and time input? Also have you known her longer than this friend of hers?

[Brad_from_NJ]

Hey Cobra,

 

She's a nurse, he's the hospital administrator and they work together, on the same floor. She's the only nurse in an entire section of doctors, so she does much of the running around & co-ordinating surgeries...and has to work with him.

 

We met 30 years ago as teenagers and dated briefly in high school, then dated again for a few years in college. But that was 25 years ago.

 

She found me again via the internet about a year ago and we struck up this relationship. She started this new job at the hospital last fall, and has worked with this guy on a daily basis since then. I started hearing his name more and more in late Feb/early March.

[Cobra_X30]

Ouch... bieng a douchebag is in the job requirements for a hospital administrator. I deal with them fairly often. I cant really think of one I like.

 

She searched you out? Do you feel that she is really interested in making this relationship with you work?

[Brad_from_NJ]

Who knows anymore...

[bish]

Hey Cobra,

 

She's a nurse, he's the hospital administrator and they work together

 

Really?....oh well then. Its real simple. You find out who his boss is and tell him/her about it. A hospital administrator messing around with one of the nurses is a superior/subordinate relationship which can lead to this guy being fired.

 

But make sure something is going on and get proof. But if I had proof and I were you, I'd rat him out.

 

And if she gets mad at you for getting him fired, just reminder her that it was her inappropriate relationship with an administrator that got him fired, not your disclosure of it.

[Cobra_X30]

Most of these guys report into a board of directors, so its not that simple. If they like him it can just be ignored. Anyway, it may be just an out of control friendship.

 

Brad, don't get too down about this.