Why do women get so upset at their men who watch porn???

[Mr. Lucky]

The man is a narcissist, Mr L, and I probably will divorce him because I don't think he is capable of change. Everyone except him and his mother and guys at the gym who have never even met me thinks that I have him totally accurately pegged.

 

Then again, you could be right

Luvstarved, my apologies . Were I you, I would have killed your Husband and buried him in the back yard years ago. But then, I've always had a low frustration tolerance!

 

It just seems like a lot of women pile-on to threads like this and say "yeah, my husband ignores me and beats off to porn also". And I always wonder, how did he get there ? What drove him from the warmth of the marital bed to the cold, hard tile floor of the bathroom? Again, I don't think that MOST men would rather have an array of pixels on a flat-panel screen than a willing, attractive, inviting woman. If the man is excessively resorting to porn, it's fair to conclude at least that the sexual dynamics of the relationship are screwed up. And since those relationships consist of two people, we should look at BOTH their roles in the breakdown of intimacy. And I realize that that kind on introspection is hard for most people, so it's just easier to point fingers...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Shan2k]

No offense, but I've never really been in relationships with men who frequented strip clubs. It was just like they'd go once in a great while for a bachelor party and really weren't into it. To tell you the truth, the classy guys think the women there are skanky and gross, because I've only dated classy, educated, successful men and they totally weren't into strip clubs. I guess this is because I work in a field with educated men and tend to date men in the same field. Either that, or I'm just lucky, but if a guy had stashes and stashes of porn and was visiting strip clubs more than "once in a great while," I wouldn't be into him, and that's my preroggative.

 

Also I can say they weren't into porn...and these were sexual guys, they just didn't go out of their way to purchase materials like this.

I get sad reading the posts by women on here when they are being denied sex and their partners have stashes and stashes of porn books, and downloads of porn on their harddrive. This is where it becomes a problem and this is where the woman becomes rightly upset. I am certain that most women aren't upset when it is a once in a while thing of their partner indulging in porn, but there are some sad, heartbreaking stories on here by women whose husbands are constantly in the next room with the door closed ja**ing off, like that's all they want to do, and also, they are not wanting to have sex with THEM, a real live loving woman who loves them. This is where women have a right to be upset, and unfortunately I see tons of posts like that on here from women.

 

So educated men don't watch porn and (obviously) dumb guys do?? You're seriously fooling yourself to think none of those men you've dated completely restrained themselves from any access to porn! It's funny what some women will believe! LOL!

 

Some men are aren't entirely into porn and completely focus on other things to past the time from those urges. Sometimes I can go months without watching them. But you never know what some guys do behind close doors and to completely believe them is gullible.

[Sheba]

of a great sex life. Point blank!

 

This has now come back full circle to the reason why married men should reserve their sexual energy for their wives...it is a gift that you would want to give her your best and most ultimate performance. That is love. I know it's hard (also not a pun). Women might even think they are jealous, but subliminally we all know how limited men are in their capabilities, when women on the other hand can have two, three or eight orgasms in one love-making session. So it's alarming to see your man waste himself no matter what the women are wearing or what they look like in the magazine, DVD or whatever. If my husband and I were separated for some uncontrollable reason (let's say he was in the armed forces and had to go to Afghanistan for six months), I would intuitively understand that he would have to satisfy his needs at one time or another. That is understandable since it would be a long time to go without and I wouldn't expect him to hold it for that long. Don't think I wouldn't tend to my own.....until his long-awaited return.

 

THIS resonates! If my husband were jerking off to porn, I wouldn't even get into the possible issues about my self esteem and comparisons of myself to the porn stars - I would be stopped at the feeling that he had "stolen" something from me.

 

My husband is over 55 and an anxious and stressed person - once a week seems to be as good as it gets. That once is usually really great - but it is only once, and I have a much higher interest than that. He knows this. I manage to be patient and think in terms of quality and not quantity so the infrequency is not a big issue in our lives- but if he used up what little sexual energy he has on a solo event....well, that might be the death knell for our very sickly relationship.

[Carbine]

Exactly, you just couldn't carry it off. You didn't give it a serious chance. You only went half way. You should have been more confidence in yourself. My girlfriend did it and I didn't know she was a bit self-conscious about it, but she pulled it off great. Just wish she would do it more often. Romance is a two-way street. Romance is a double-standard issue in women. On the contrary, a lot of women want romance but some guys think it's cliche and don't bother doing it. And those guys wonder why their women don't want to be intimate.

There was no point trying to carry it off in the first place. I'm not a porn star, i dont look or think like one, so what would be the point? Maybe your gf was lacking in confidence but she probably looked the part which I don't. I know it and my bf knew it, and imagining that I'm on a par with the models he prefers isn't really going to fool anyone is it?

 

But Carbine, none of look like that ideal person. And in 20 years, time and gravity will make sure that today's ideal woman doesn't remain ideal. If you feel this way today, will wrinkles and sagging skin turn you asexual as you get older? That part is all in your head - no matter how pretty (or handsome) someone is, somewhere, someplace, there's someone better looking.

So what? I live in the here and now, just like everyone else. And in regards to the porn issue, it certainly only deals with 'right now'. The way I react to the world and the world reacts to me (especially events that alter my self esteem) are happening from second to second and they dont really have enough scope to take into account what might be in the future.

 

Is that the only basis by which you can self-measure your own sexual attractiveness?

Sure, why not? It's a fairly good measure, I think...

 

Don't you all think that a secret fantasy life is part of the spice of life, whether it's porno or romance novels? I think it helps to keep us as intact individuals, which spices our relationships with our lovers. What do you think of this?

To an extent...but where is the line drawn between fantasy and reality? There's no invisible barrier stopping you from crossing over, and that's how many events in real life start off - as a fantasy. Anyway, I don't really see how fantasy is such a wonderful spice in my relationship. I have my relationship for a reason, I want it to go somewhere. Why on earth then would I sit back allow it to be undermined by some silly off-on-a-whim fantasy?

 

But how can you go beyond???? Try contacting the girl on the porn? Cheat on your GF/husband because someone you saw on the streets reminds you of your favorite porn star? That would be taking it too far!!

It's not just the issue of going beyond. There's a whole lot of other implications, like the fact that porn imagery creates a standard in his mind that I, as a female, feel both obliged and pressured to live up to.

 

The problem is women are too insecure!! Knowing their man even owns 1 porn that he watches rarely (once or maybe twice a month) floods insecurities through her vines, consuming her because she actually thinks he's thinking the girls in the porn look better than her; and that he wants them... Which is not always the case.

Too insecure? Based on who's reasoning exactly?? Both men and women judge women on their physical attractiveness, to a large degree. Those 'insecure' women you mention are fully aware of this and accept that this is the way it is rather than pretending it doesnt exist. As for 'thinking that he wants them' well that statement is open to interpretation. He may not run off with the next porn star he bumps into, but if he's masturbating to porn/sexually aroused by porn models, then chances are he wants them - even if it's just for that brief moment.

 

That's the problem. Women compare themselves to other women.

Both sexes compare themselves to others. I think women react differently and feel different emotions as a result of these comparisons, but I don't think that the way women react is a "problem", it's just the way it is.

 

So now men must be sensitive to their GF/wifes feeling because of this socially accepted rule. The rule that it's okay for a woman to compare herself to another woman.

I'd argue about it being socially acceptable...when you think about it, there's every push out there NOT to compare ourselves to other women. Personally I feel that comparing myself to other women is more an intrinsic part of being female. It's impossible and (in my mind) illogical to fight the urge. I also think that men being sensitive to their SO's feelings can only be considered a 'rule' is a bit full-on...i'd say it's more common sense and emotional intelligence to accommodate for the other person's feelings.

 

Because some women are insecure about themselves and don't understand that looking at women is just a part of being a man. I take my friends to strip clubs as a way of cheering them up when they are having problems with their women but I would never cheat on my wife and I strictly look with no touching involved.

That's great, that is. They have women problems so they go check out newer, better models in order to run away from the problem (and no doubt see what else is on the market). When my friends have relationship problems we DISCUSS the problem and mull over possible solutions. It works wonders, Woggle...

[Shan2k]

There was no point trying to carry it off in the first place. I'm not a porn star, i dont look or think like one, so what would be the point? Maybe your gf was lacking in confidence but she probably looked the part which I don't. I know it and my bf knew it, and imagining that I'm on a par with the models he prefers isn't really going to fool anyone is it?

 

 

It's not just the issue of going beyond. There's a whole lot of other implications, like the fact that porn imagery creates a standard in his mind that I, as a female, feel both obliged and pressured to live up to.

 

 

Too insecure? Based on who's reasoning exactly?? Both men and women judge women on their physical attractiveness, to a large degree. Those 'insecure' women you mention are fully aware of this and accept that this is the way it is rather than pretending it doesnt exist. As for 'thinking that he wants them' well that statement is open to interpretation. He may not run off with the next porn star he bumps into, but if he's masturbating to porn/sexually aroused by porn models, then chances are he wants them - even if it's just for that brief moment.

 

 

Both sexes compare themselves to others. I think women react differently and feel different emotions as a result of these comparisons, but I don't think that the way women react is a "problem", it's just the way it is.

 

 

I'd argue about it being socially acceptable...when you think about it, there's every push out there NOT to compare ourselves to other women. Personally I feel that comparing myself to other women is more an intrinsic part of being female. It's impossible and (in my mind) illogical to fight the urge. I also think that men being sensitive to their SO's feelings can only be considered a 'rule' is a bit full-on...i'd say it's more common sense and emotional intelligence to accommodate for the other person's feelings.

 

Well, everyone feels differently depending on their situation, pass experiences, self-esteem. It was never about completely doing everything the girls in the videos do, especially if you're physically incapable of doing it. It's just the fantasy of sex that (contained) guys like about porn. If it goes beyond, like wanting to have sex with the girls in the porn, then that's a serious issue! Porn is something that plays out our sexual thoughts and fantasies. There's a lot of guys who know how to keep it to just thoughts. It's like watching an action movie. You want to do that stuff but you know it's not for you. Sex is about the only thing you can do that won't cause severe bodily harm (unless you have a disease).

 

My GF dresses in Lingerie, talks dirty, goes wild on me, talks dirty while she's going wild on me like the sexual fantasies that I find in pornography. It doesn't take much to role play.

 

It hurts to know you feel that way about yourself. Why did he want to be with you in the first place if he didn't find you attractive?

[Carbine]

It was never about completely doing everything the girls in the videos do, especially if you're physically incapable of doing it.

 

I'm not physically incapable, I just don't look the part. That's what matters the most. I just dont see what purpose it would serve. All it would do would be to disapoint him and further crush my self esteem.

 

It hurts to know you feel that way about yourself. Why did he want to be with you in the first place if he didn't find you attractive?

 

I'm not saying he didn't want to be with me (although I know for a fact he was disapointed when he first saw me naked). I guess he persued the relationship for a number of reasons, many of which were based on what I could be rather than what I was at the time. I honestly do feel that the person he wanted me to become (both physically and otherwise) was based largely on the 'ideal' women that he's been conditioned to look up to.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not saying he didn't want to be with me (although I know for a fact he was disapointed when he first saw me naked).

Have you considered the thought that your boyfriend is (was?) a shallow and insensitive jerk? I've seen plenty of women naked and have never been disappointed at the sight of any of them. Basing you opinions of the opposite sex on any one person's actions in a dangerous concept. If I based my opinion of women on my ex-wife then I'd be posting these thoughts from a monastery high in Tibet somewhere

 

Mr. Lucky

[Woggle]

When men are with nagging women who are impossible to please or are going through a nasty divorce sometimes a night of debauchery with the guys can work wonders for the soul.

[lindya]

Too insecure? Based on who's reasoning exactly?? Both men and women judge women on their physical attractiveness, to a large degree. Those 'insecure' women you mention are fully aware of this and accept that this is the way it is rather than pretending it doesnt exist.

 

The porn debate does always seem to raise the issue of female insecurities being inspired or exacerbated by a partner's use of porn. The anti-porn stance might be "this is spoiling our sex life for me...please stop using it" whereas the pro-porn stance might be "you're insecure - please get over it..."

 

In the context of a real relationship, hopefully both parties will be sufficiently invested in eachother that they consider eachother's positions with a bit more depth and compassion than that. The sex drive is a very strong one, and with porn being so widely available I think it's unlikely that a partner will never look at it. Not impossible, but unlikely. The question for me would be degree. I wouldn't want a partner who was completely addicted to it, but someone who looked at it from time to time - well, I'm not the thought police.

 

I think that women who are in relationships where porn is a major issue really aren't helped by the blunt "get over it - stop being so insecure" message...and it rarely seems that that message is delivered with a helpful intent. It generally sounds more like a weapon in some "you're not good enough" debate. Or, perhaps, a way of saying "I'm secure. I must be if I'm sneering at you for being insecure." People love to berate eachother for insecurity...but insecurity is a very human thing that, for most people I think, can come and goes according to circumstances.

 

It seems pointless to simply invalidate it by telling someone they shouldn't feel that way. I think it's more helpful to recognise the negative, downward spiralling effect it can have on a person's whole life....and try to encourage people to combine the understanding that "yes, some people out there do have unreasonable, unrealistic expectations of partners" with a determination not to let your relatively short time on this planet be marred by that fact.

 

If someone doesn't think you're good enough, then they need to just move on and find someone who does match their expectations. If they find that that's impossible because the type of partner they want wouldn't want them, then I suppose they need to either adjust their expectations or accept a life of solitude - or else relationships in which they are continually dissatisfied, miserable and critical of the person whose confidence and peace of mind they feel justified in undermining. The former partner you mentioned, who expressed disappointment in your appearance, perhaps falls into that category.

[Melovator]

Not all women get upset. I own more porn than my very recent ex, though I prefer novels to movies. I also bought all the toys- which is very good because I have BOB (Battery Operated Boyfriend) to keep me company now. I've never had a problem with... tasetful erotica, but if I was with a man who'd rather watch porn than do me I'd get upset... he could watch porn while doing me that's always fun.

I think the type of material viewed makes a difference as well, some stuff is... well wrong, exploitative and disrespectful. Any porn with violence and human waste functions is totally out for me.

[Carbine]

Have you considered the thought that your boyfriend is (was?) a shallow and insensitive jerk?

The thought has crossed my mind, yes . But in all honesty, he's allowed to have an opinion, even if it does hurt me. He's never come outright and said he was disapointed in me, *I* was the one who pushed him to talk about it. When he first saw me it was winter and i was wearing a long black jacket and heels (which would have disguised my figure) and he said he thought at the time i had a 'killer body'. I don't blame him for being disapointed at all.

 

I've seen plenty of women naked and have never been disappointed at the sight of any of them. Basing you opinions of the opposite sex on any one person's actions in a dangerous concept.

Fair enough and each to their own I guess. Maybe 'disapointed' isn't the best word to use. It's just that I dont have a body like a porn model which is what he - and probably the majority of men - considers to be the ultimate in sexy.

 

sometimes a night of debauchery with the guys can work wonders for the soul.

Or lack thereof...

[Kengne]

Men are visual creatures. Men will masturbate. To me - porn is a visual tool for masturbation. It's that simple - until you bring in other issues and circumstances (e.g. self-esteem/security of the partners involved, nature of their sex life, past irelationship exposure / interactions with porn, cheating blah blah). It's all the other ish that makes porn such a hot topic for women. And what leads some men to lie to their s.o.'s about their usage of porn.

 

My first LTR - my bf at the time COMPLETELY hid his usage of porn from me, for approx 3/4 of the rel'ship. He denied that he even masturbated! When I found out about the porn, I was shocked, stunned, hurt. Why was he looking at other women, if he was in love with ME??

 

The rel'ship after that - my bf at the time gently exposed/hinted at him masturbating/using porn. I was again, shocked, but much less than before. He never exposed his porn to me, I never asked about it. And it was never an issue because our sex life was good.

 

Now - my current bf - proudly showed me a lil of his extensive porn collection a few days ago. I was stunned - not that he HAS porn (by now I realize this is a normal guy thing) - but that he was SO HONEST and UPFRONT about it. And his honesty means more to me than a 1001 words of 'baby, i don't use porn! i only think of you!' blah blah

 

People - let's get real! Just because a man uses porn does not AUTOMATICALLY mean he doesn't love you, or find you sexy blah blah. That MAY be the case - but it is NOT ALWAYS the case. My current bf - I know for a fact he finds me sexy. Do I concern myself with the girls in the porno? HELL NO! Because 1) I think I look better than 90% of them 2) I'm FLESH and BLOOD 3) our sex life is VERY GOOD! and my sexual needs are being satisfied 4) when it all comes down, I'm the person he kisses and cuddles with. I'm the person he laughs with, talks to etc... I'M REAL! What we have, outside of the bedroom, is real. So why would I let some porno stars threaten what we have? Please.

 

I don't have a problem with my man watching or using porn, as long as it does not interfere with our relationship. There are bigger relationship issues than porn, and it is the least of *MY* problems. I udnerstand how it COULD be a problem for other females, and I am truly sorry - because I don't know how or what to say to make females view porn differently. I think with age, and sexual experience, I just became more knowing/savvy of human sexual nature/behaviour. Things that used to freak me out - no longer do. Porn being one of them.

 

But again - the hallmark of me accepting of my man using porn - was his HONESTY. My current bf is the FIRST MALE i know to NOT HIDE or LIE about it!!

 

Men - why lie? I know they will argue oh, my girl will trip/be offended - but maybe you're not giving your gf the benefit of the doubt! Maybe she WOULD be ok with it - if you told her upfront! And if you told her, and she was STILL buggin - then you have a choice. Give up the porn, or give up the girl. Sucks yes, BUT DONT LIE ABOUT USING PORN! shiied.

 

Women - why make porn an issue? *IF* it's self-esteem/insecurity issues - then I say sorry, but the onus is on YOU to fix YOUR SELF-ESTEEM - not your man! That's why it's called SELF-esteem, not WHAT-MY-MAN-THINKS-OF-ME-esteem. Harsh maybe, but sometimes I think us women can be such crybabies. Straight up - I know I look damn amazing but even still my body is not perfect! I secretly wish my booty was bigger but unless I put on more weight (i'm 125 lbs, 5'5), that's not gonna happen! Does that make me any less attractive in my man's eyes? NOPE! Do I let it bother me that he looks at women with bigger asses? NOPE! Because at the end of the day, I get the d*ck.

 

 

K.

[rainfall]

Women - why make porn an issue? *IF* it's self-esteem/insecurity issues - then I say sorry, but the onus is on YOU to fix YOUR SELF-ESTEEM - not your man! That's why it's called SELF-esteem, not WHAT-MY-MAN-THINKS-OF-ME-esteem. Harsh maybe, but sometimes I think us women can be such crybabies. Straight up - I know I look damn amazing but even still my body is not perfect! I secretly wish my booty was bigger but unless I put on more weight (i'm 125 lbs, 5'5), that's not gonna happen! Does that make me any less attractive in my man's eyes? NOPE! Do I let it bother me that he looks at women with bigger asses? NOPE! Because at the end of the day, I get the d*ck.

 

 

K.

 

Its not my self esteem. I think I look good. (although I would like bigger boobs but I can't afford a boob job so my smaller ones will do.) Its the fact that he should have no need for porn involving randomn women. I am always up for sex and he has homemade porno for help if he ever *needs* to masturbate. If he chooses to use some naked randomn chick over me that is disrespectful.

[mydadischeatingonmom]

hmmm.....well my bf's friend gave him a gangbang Cd to watch ,so when he got home I broke it right infront of him , cuz he was sitting and watching it....thats disrespectfull.....but i think i wasnt feling too good that day anyway ....so it all depends on how i feel , i have mood swings, so i dont know , it depends....

[Bobster999]

Would you rather a guy masturbate to porn or cheat on you? It is in a guys genes to look at other women. It is how we are wired.

 

Most women are totally psycho on this subject.....I don't understand.

[rtHawk]

"Would you rather a guy masturbate to porn or cheat on you? It is in a guys genes to look at other women. It is how we are wired.

 

Most women are totally psycho on this subject.....I don't understand."

 

THIS comes from someone who admonishes a woman for her concerns and feelings of betrayal when her spouse cheated on her emotionally!

that holds alot of credibility and integrity.!!!!

NOT!

 

Bobster999

 

"You women are incredible----he wasn't physical with this other lady and you are thinking about leaving him!! Emotional affair---what a bunch of crap. An affair is being sexual with someone. I don't know what all this "emotional affair' bs is. I never can get over how emotionally fragile you women are."

[Bobster999]

Exactly---most women are so neurotic---they worry about men looking at porn----they worry their man is talking to another woman---they worry they aren't "good" enough......jeez, stop already.

[zeldazelda]

Exactly---most women are so neurotic---they worry about men looking at porn----they worry their man is talking to another woman---they worry they aren't "good" enough......jeez, stop already.

 

jeez, i can't imagine what would ever make women feel this way!

 

oh, that's right.

 

men.

 

so basically, you're asking women to stop having what is to them a natural reaction. which would be fine, if it was just as reasonable to say to a man "just stop it already" when it comes to their 'natural' need for porn.

 

i don't know, i don't mind porn so much anymore, but i can definitely see, the way some men so desperately cling to it, how it would affect a woman's opinion of herself. absolutely. how could you not?

[Mr. Lucky]

jeez, i can't imagine what would ever make women feel this way!

 

oh, that's right.

 

men.

 

Wow, I never knew we had so much power !

 

Bottom line, you're never going to get someone else (not even another whole gender) to entirely affirm your self-worth. Some part of that has to come from you, you're own feeling of self-esteem. What I think is dangerous for women is this - in (over)reacting to porn, you surrender that ability to create your own persona, based on YOUR own thoughts, beliefs, goals, standards and ideals. If you make those things partner based ("what does he think about me?"), you give up that belief and self-confidence that is often a woman's sexiest attribute. You make it too easy for some guy to take that from you if you get worked up over some pixelated image that he's watching on a screen. By definition, it shouldn't be that important to you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[rtHawk]

Wow, I never knew we had so much power !

 

Bottom line, you're never going to get someone else (not even another whole gender) to entirely affirm your self-worth. Some part of that has to come from you, you're own feeling of self-esteem. What I think is dangerous for women is this - in (over)reacting to porn, you surrender that ability to create your own persona, based on YOUR own thoughts, beliefs, goals, standards and ideals. If you make those things partner based ("what does he think about me?"), you give up that belief and self-confidence that is often a woman's sexiest attribute. You make it too easy for some guy to take that from you if you get worked up over some pixelated image that he's watching on a screen. By definition, it shouldn't be that important to you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

With all respect Mr. L as you have and continue to maintain a respectful and always insightful manner here on LS and I certainly always appreciate your thoughts.

 

First, I must comment that this is not about the issue of masturbation as that is normal and healthy and not the topic at hand.

 

sooooo, By the same token, there are many women who hold to their self-confidence, thier sexiness, their physical well being and sexual well being with their partner/SO and so maybe some pixelated images shouldn't be that important to us( and in truth they aren't important to us at all, it is the value the men in our lives put into it and them that makes us see how important they are to them so much so that they can't put it aside, stop it, make the woman and the R the most important thing);

 

BUT then it should also not be that important to the men we adore, cherish and love-up in all ways for them to understand that the woman in their life does and can fulfull their heart's (and d*ck's desire ( or at least make every effort to do so)) and so the porn/pixelated images that should not be so important to us should also not be that important to the men and they should forgo it--- for the woman and the relationship if she finds it to be something she feels and believes does not work for her and her relationship.

 

My self worth comes from who I am and the joys and goodness I bring into my life, my kids', my R, my work, etc etc.

That should be sufficient for the man in my life as well---porn doesn't diminish my self worth, it diminishes me as a physical, sexual, sensual woman in my R.

 

Why wouldn't a man in a R, who loves his wife, G/SO be satisfied, happy, content and capable to forgo the porn for a more complete R---??? without the energy and desire removed from her???

 

 

and things like this also leave us wondering????

Bobster999Would you rather a guy masturbate to porn or cheat on you?

 

 

Exactly---most women are so neurotic---they worry about men looking at porn----they worry their man is talking to another woman---they worry they aren't "good" enough......jeez, stop already.

 

QUOTE]

 

and, please explain this concept.... it is BIZARRE and at best an oxymoron...

 

so men choose (not need) but choose porn so they don't cheat on the women in their lives because they are "good" enough??????????????????

 

 

and anyone who has been cheated on will tell you that an emotional affair is NOT the same things as a random conversation with a woman.....it is an interaction between a man (in a R) and another woman where the heart and the desires and emotional intimacy is betrayed.....

very different!

[zeldazelda]

Wow, I never knew we had so much power !

 

Bottom line, you're never going to get someone else (not even another whole gender) to entirely affirm your self-worth. Some part of that has to come from you, you're own feeling of self-esteem. What I think is dangerous for women is this - in (over)reacting to porn, you surrender that ability to create your own persona, based on YOUR own thoughts, beliefs, goals, standards and ideals. If you make those things partner based ("what does he think about me?"), you give up that belief and self-confidence that is often a woman's sexiest attribute. You make it too easy for some guy to take that from you if you get worked up over some pixelated image that he's watching on a screen. By definition, it shouldn't be that important to you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

okay.

 

and everything you said you could be turned around to support a woman's argument as to why a man should understand that he may have caused these feelings to be where they weren't before in the first place.

 

i've been there. i'm not there now, but i've been there, so i'm just saying.

 

it's a huge, big old back and forth, and what it comes down to is that both partners have to meet each other halfway if they want the relationship...but they never do. so here we are. haha.

[Mr. Lucky]

With all respect Mr. L as you have and continue to maintain a respectful and always insightful manner here on LS and I certainly always appreciate your thoughts.

 

First, I must comment that this is not about the issue of masturbation as that is normal and healthy and not the topic at hand.

 

sooooo, By the same token, there are many women who hold to their self-confidence, thier sexiness, their physical well being and sexual well being with their partner/SO and so maybe some pixelated images shouldn't be that important to us( and in truth they aren't important to us at all, it is the value the men in our lives put into it and them that makes us see how important they are to them so much so that they can't put it aside, stop it, make the woman and the R the most important thing);

 

BUT then it should also not be that important to the men we adore, cherish and love-up in all ways for them to understand that the woman in their life does and can fulfull their heart's (and d*ck's desire ( or at least make every effort to do so)) and so the porn/pixelated images that should not be so important to us should also not be that important to the men and they should forgo it--- for the woman and the relationship if she finds it to be something she feels and believes does not work for her and her relationship.

 

My self worth comes from who I am and the joys and goodness I bring into my life, my kids', my R, my work, etc etc.

That should be sufficient for the man in my life as well---porn doesn't diminish my self worth, it diminishes me as a physical, sexual, sensual woman in my R.

 

Why wouldn't a man in a R, who loves his wife, G/SO be satisfied, happy, content and capable to forgo the porn for a more complete R---??? without the energy and desire removed from her???

Right back at you, rtHawk. I appreciate how you can discuss something without name calling or acrimony

 

One obvious answer is that porn means different things to men and women. The times in my life that I've used porn, it's been simply to get off. Maybe I lack a good imagination, but I need an image to get the job done. And the right kind of porn has traditionally done the job very well. However, having now been happily married (2nd time) for 20 years, I couldn't tell you the last time I looked at it (or used it for that purpose). My wife makes sure I have neither the desire nor the energy .

 

I do, however, understand its attraction for guys in less fortunate circumstances, either in or out of a relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Carbine]

Men are visual creatures.

I'm still trying to work this one out. If men are visual creatures, what does that make us women? Blind inanimate objects? Visuals and aesthetics play a very important role in the preferences, desires, choices and emotions of both men and women. Where's the evidence that visuals cause greater influence, or matter more to men?

 

To me - porn is a visual tool for masturbation. It's that simple - until you bring in other issues and circumstances (e.g. selfesteem/security of the partners involved, nature of their sex life, past irelationship exposure / interactions with porn, cheating blah blah). It's all the other ish that makes porn such a hot topic for women.

But nothing exists in a vacuum, and trying to compartmentalise these issues by pretending they have no bearing on each other is way too simplistic. Fair enough, I see what you're saying, but it seems like a very cold and rational way to try and reason things out. I mean, say porn is a visual tool for masturbation - that's fine, but masturbation is obviously influenced by his sex drive, which is also partially fulfilled (we hope) by his flesh-and-blood SO. It can be unclear, confusing and very upsetting trying to figure out where I fit in in this grey area. How can you say that these things are totally separate issues??

 

Do I concern myself with the girls in the porno? HELL NO! Because 1) I think I look better than 90% of them

Is that absolutely true? Because if it is, you'd be in the absolute minority. No doubt it would genuinely explain your lack of insecurities. But most other women - when they're being completely honest with themselves -probably don't feel this way when they compare themselves to porn stars.

 

Women - why make porn an issue? *IF* it's self-esteem/insecurity issues - then I say sorry, but the onus is on YOU to fix YOUR SELF-ESTEEM - not your man! That's why it's called SELF-esteem, not WHAT-MY-MAN-THINKS-OF-ME-esteem.

Porn isn't the issue. The issue is our self-image/self-esteem. Porn is just a influencing factor in this, as are strip clubs, other women, fashion magazines, and the rest of it (but lets not go there right now). Yes, our self-esteem is the value we place on what we believe to be true about ourselves. But as I said, we don't exist in a void. It would be impossible for human beings not to be influenced by other factors in the environment, like other's opinions and reactions to us. Yes, fixing one's self-esteem does obviously require some resilience. But I think it also has a lot to do with our perception of what is considered to be desirable, ideal, preferable, acceptable, beautiful, sexy etc etc, and our perception of how we measure up in these terms.

[doiask42much]

Too insecure? Based on who's reasoning exactly?? Both men and women judge women on their physical attractiveness, to a large degree. Those 'insecure' women you mention are fully aware of this and accept that this is the way it is rather than pretending it doesnt exist. As for 'thinking that he wants them' well that statement is open to interpretation. He may not run off with the next porn star he bumps into, but if he's masturbating to porn/sexually aroused by porn models, then chances are he wants them - even if it's just for that brief moment.

Amen, Carbine.

 

I have talked to many guys extensively about their reactions when first seeing a woman naked. (Stupid, I know.) Almost everyone I talked to found at least one thing (if not several things) on the woman they were disappointed with. Banana boobs, beef curtains, cellulite, lack of a "proper waist," "her torso was too long for her legs (he dumped her for this!)," "labia like chewed-up bubblegum," big bush, "meat bullet" nipples, and the list goes on. So Mr. Lucky, maybe you're just an easygoing sort, but I assure you many men are not. Then again, it could be that certain clothing creates false impressions of what lies beneath? But only to a degree. I think media images, both porn and nonporn, are at least partly to blame when it comes to what men expect women to look like, and the men judging these women are below average to average-looking themselves. One person I know tried to be happy with women whose bodies did not meet his ideal standard but would always eventually break up because he felt he was "settling" and could never be happy with a woman who didn't have that "nice S spot" on her waist where he could rest his hand or whatever other stupid thing he wanted.

[doiask42much]

And it's not that bodily flaws are necessarily dealbreakers, but they certainly did seem to influence how the man treated the woman, how much he was willing to do for her, how proud he was to be with her, how hard he would fight to keep her, etc. When men do find what they consider to be physical perfection, they think the girl is a keeper, even if there are many other red flags, and they may pass on a woman who is much nicer and better for him because of perceived flaws. In short, men are retarded.