How important is confidence and a good personality?

[CaliGuy]

A little story.

 

At my new job, there are plenty of women. Some available, some not. Over the past couple of years I have gone from an a-typical "nice guy" to a much more confident, self-assured and happy-go-lucky guy. (Took a lot of work, but I'm finally there). But I have even more so studied other people.

 

There are two women that I am going to use as an example.

 

Woman # 1 is average looking at best, slightly overweight, married and with two kids (I am using her as an example, not because I personally am interested in her). On a looks scale, most would rate her a 5.

 

Woman #2 is single, has a drop dead body and the looks to match. On a looks scale, most would rate her a 9.

 

Woman #1 has interest from MANY guys at work.

Woman #2 has LITTLE interest from any guys at work.

 

Why?

 

Because woman #1 has a great personality, is very confident, always smiles and has a great attitude. She's just a blast to hang out with. And I can tell from watching the guys talk to her that they would be interested in her if she was single. Several have said if she was, they would snap her up in a second.

 

Woman #2 is completely unapproachable. She thinks that her "you know what" doesn't stink. She never smiles, never says hello, always has a frown on her face and is basically a drag to be around. Many of the men at work said "She may look good, but she's like a twinkie. Looks great on the outside but is really bad for you."

 

Many times I've said the most important thing for men is to be confident, self-assured and have a good attitude. Well I am seeing first hand with this example that it works for women as well.

 

The point to this story is I had a debate with someone the other day that said "Any man who says that confidence and personality are the most important things when attracting a mate is either lying or trying to be PC."

 

So ladies and gents, feel free to kick in your 2 cents here. Am I a liar or am I just trying to be PC?

[Lizzie60]

Methink that if woman #2 has a nice personality, no one would even look at woman #1...

 

It's hard to say...maybe woman #2 is shy and is only waiting for some guy to make the first move. The guys are simply too proud and don't want to get a 'no' for an answer so they just say they're not really interested... yeah right... I don't buy that... even though they say they would snap woman #1 if she was available... it's easy to say when she's not available or simply using this as an excuse... LOL...because available or not, is she was drop dead gorgeous they would hit on her...

 

When they jerk off, I bet they think about woman #2. LOL

[CaliGuy]

Methink that if woman #2 has a nice personality, no one would even look at woman #1...

 

I don't think so. Woman #1 has the personality and confidence that makes her much more attractive than she is physically.

 

It's hard to say...maybe woman #2 is shy and is only waiting for some guy to make the first move. The guys are simply too proud and don't want to get a 'no' for an answer so they just say they're not really interested... yeah right... I don't buy that... even though they say they would snap woman #1 if she was available... it's easy to say when she's not available or simply using this as an excuse... LOL...because available or not, is she was drop dead gorgeous they would hit on her...

 

When they jerk off, I bet they think about woman #2. LOL

 

Woman #2 has been approached many times, is single and not dating. Maybe she just doesn't like men? haha. I don't know.

 

All I know is compared as a whole, woman #1 blows woman #2 away.

[VirtualInsanity]

I see what your saying. If I was a guy, I'd rather hang out with women #1.

 

Looks are okay, but confidence and a good personality need to be present.

[CaliGuy]

I see what your saying. If I was a guy, I'd rather hang out with women #1.

 

Looks are okay, but confidence and a good personality need to be present.

 

 

I would even go so far as to say personality and confidence often trumps looks.

[johan]

Many times I've said the most important thing for men is to be confident, self-assured and have a good attitude. Well I am seeing first hand with this example that it works for women as well.

 

I know this is the latest, greatest theory. "Be confident, love yourself, and the world will love you." But I think there are other ways to get what you want from someone. For instance, if you wait around anywhere long enough, you'll spot someone who is vulnerable and weak. And people like that are more than willing to lay themselves out for you like a buffet.

 

In the end, confidence, like everything else is relative. You can be the most confident guy on the tennis team and feel like a God. But you'll be nothing next to the star of the football team. And he'll feel like a superstar until he meets Jerry Rice. And Jerry Rice will get just as toungue-tied in graduate-level computer science class, where the geeks have nothing to offer the ladies, particularly when the best guy on the tennis team is around.

 

So just find someone completely defenseless (relative to you) and have a field day. Or maybe you just want to get put through the ringer by woman #1, who knows she can have her way with any vulnerable guy around. If she's smart, that's what she'll do. Maybe she'll even be able to get a few of them up in the air at one time. How can you not want some of that?

[Touche]

I would even go so far as to say personality and confidence often trumps looks.

 

Then you think like a woman. I think women are a lot less superficial in that arena.

 

My personality (and I've never really had confidence) NEVER trumped my looks when I was an ugly duckling. I went from an ugly duckling to an average woman. I saw a huge difference in the attention I got from men. My personality was the same. Later, yes my confidence rose...but it didn't seem to matter as far as the attention I got from men.

 

Men are more visual and yes, I dare say, men are for the most part, more superficial in that regard.

[CaliGuy]

I know this is the latest, greatest theory. "Be confident, love yourself, and the world will love you." But I think there are other ways to get what you want from someone. For instance, if you wait around anywhere long enough, you'll spot someone who is vulnerable and weak. And people like that are more than willing to lay themselves out for you like a buffet.

 

In the end, confidence, like everything else is relative. You can be the most confident guy on the tennis team and feel like a God. But you'll be nothing next to the star of the football team. And he'll feel like a superstar until he meets Jerry Rice. And Jerry Rice will get just as toungue-tied in graduate-level computer science class, where the geeks have nothing to offer the ladies, particularly when the best guy on the tennis team is around.

 

So just find someone completely defenseless (relative to you) and have a field day. Or maybe you just want to get put through the ringer by woman #1, who knows she can have her way with any vulnerable guy around. If she's smart, that's what she'll do. Maybe she'll even be able to get a few of them up in the air at one time. How can you not respect that?

 

Johan, try this.

 

Find a hot girl to date (I have) with no confidence.

Find an average woman to date with confdience (I have).

 

Tell me when you are done which one is more attractive to you.

 

The same applies to men. Now, men and women who are attractive AND have confidence and a good personality, that is unbeatable.

 

But if you live your life with those to compare to, you are not playing on an equal plain and you will feel inadequate. But if you STOP comparing yourself to others and love who you are (and be confident AND a good person) you will (sooner rather than later) find someone who fits you perfectly.

 

It's all relative, I understand that. But if you compare yourself to perfection (and no one is perfect) then you've already lost.

 

Those who think they can and those who think they can not, are both right.

[johan]

CaliGuy,

 

Have you ever stooped to pick a shrinking violet? Even the average guy can have those by the handful.

[johan]

Hey, who out there wants to argue this point with me? I say confidence is irrelevant. Who out there doubts I can win this argument? Anyone who thought I had something to say while I was being Mr. Nice Guy should be here to see what I can do when arguing from the point of view of my true nature. I'm here to use you. I don't mind if you sacrifice yourself for my cause.

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy,

 

Have you ever stooped to pick a shrinking violet? Even the average guy can have those by the handful.

 

Hehe. Always the nay sayer, aren't you?

[johan]

Hehe. Always the nay sayer, aren't you?

 

Sometimes quantity trumps quality. Wolves don't waste their energy on the healthiest, strongest member of the herd. They wouldn't let pride get in the way of a good hunt.

[Touche]

Hey, who out there wants to argue this point with me? I say confidence is irrelevant. Who out there doubts I can win this argument? Anyone who thought I had something to say while I was being Mr. Nice Guy should be here to see what I can do when arguing from the point of view of my true nature. I'm here to use you. I don't mind if you sacrifice yourself for my cause.

 

I never thought you were Mr. Nice Guy. Never. Use me, honey...oh wait, I'm a shrinking violet never mind.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

Particularly entertaining to read. I must admit, though, shouldn't there be a woman #3?

 

Your observations are right on target, CaliGuy. But, you must understand, you are ONLY an observer.

So just find someone completely defenseless (relative to you) and have a field day.

Where is the challenge in that? or she'd have to be insanely smart and possess wonderful conversation skills.

 

Woman #1 and Woman #2, one could say, are polar opposites. Do they have anything in common?

 

All we know, neither or both women could be smart. Confidence does not equal intellect.

 

I think the reason why woman #1 attracts many men is because she is friendly and married -not deadly in nature.

 

Sand&Water

[CaliGuy]

Sometimes quantity trumps quality. Wolves don't waste their energy on the healthiest, strongest member of the herd. They wouldn't let pride get in the way of a good hunt.

 

Meh. Quality>Quantity any day.

 

Quantity is unfulfilling.

[2sunny]

a great personality and confidence can make any average person more attractive.

 

throw in a high amount of intelligence and a great sense of humor and i am all over it.

 

ps - just cause boobs are big doesn't mean thay are fake - ahemmm

 

but then again - it is an assumption - considering it is so cal.

[lindya]

I agree. Wolves have no pride, but I do. I just had a point to make, and sometimes I guess I think points are best made by being ludicrously contradictory to what you know is right. Anyone who I really thought was a shrinking violet, the weakest in the herd, wouldn't get anything but pity from me. But I would go for the best, and that means passing by many strong ones on the way to the front. Some really great specimens, who will get their turn at the front when the time comes. They shouldn't sacrifice their self respect by pretending to be lame and injured, trying to attract attention to themselves.

 

Like you say, some days people feel like the lame duck, other days they might feel like the superstar depending on how well things are going for them. I think the best a person can do is stay in touch with how it feels to play both those roles. That way, they can empathise with others when they're feeling a bit lame (and avoid buying into some "let's pack up and savage the weakest among us" mentality)...and on other occasions, when they themselves are feeling lame, they won't get too envious or bitter about other people who are having their moment at the front.

 

Confidence, to me, means being able to accept that you might find others perceiving you as a herd leader one moment, as a shrinking violet the next - and not letting yourself be overly affected by those perceptions. If you believe gushing flattery, you're going to end up paying too much heed to the bad stuff too ....ie on days when things are going less well, and nobody seems to be on your side. We all have those days, and we are all capable of feeling sorry for ourselves from time to time. Let's not forget that, during moments of confidence.

[johan]

Like you say, some days people feel like the lame duck, other days they might feel like the superstar depending on how well things are going for them. I think the best a person can do is stay in touch with how it feels to play both those roles. That way, they can empathise with others when they're feeling a bit lame (and avoid buying into some "let's pack up and savage the weakest among us" mentality)...and on other occasions, when they themselves are feeling lame, they won't get too envious or bitter about other people who are having their moment at the front.

 

Confidence, to me, means being able to accept that you might find others perceiving you as a herd leader one moment, as a shrinking violet the next - and not letting yourself be overly affected by those perceptions. If you believe gushing flattery, you're going to end up paying too much heed to the bad stuff too ....ie on days when things are going less well, and nobody seems to be on your side. We all have those days, and we are all capable of feeling sorry for ourselves from time to time. Let's not forget that, during moments of confidence.

 

I agree with everything you're saying here, Lindya. I think we're all capable of having moments of intense ego-driven insanity. I surprise myself how idiotic and pathetic I can be sometimes, even repeating mistakes I should have overcome years ago. The only real option I ever have is to forgive and leave it behind. The quicker I get to that point, the better I feel.

[IpAncA]

a great personality and confidence can make any average person more attractive.

 

Most definately.

[Mustang Sally]

Like you say, some days people feel like the lame duck, other days they might feel like the superstar depending on how well things are going for them. I think the best a person can do is stay in touch with how it feels to play both those roles. That way, they can empathise with others when they're feeling a bit lame (and avoid buying into some "let's pack up and savage the weakest among us" mentality)...and on other occasions, when they themselves are feeling lame, they won't get too envious or bitter about other people who are having their moment at the front.

 

Confidence, to me, means being able to accept that you might find others perceiving you as a herd leader one moment, as a shrinking violet the next - and not letting yourself be overly affected by those perceptions. If you believe gushing flattery, you're going to end up paying too much heed to the bad stuff too ....ie on days when things are going less well, and nobody seems to be on your side. We all have those days, and we are all capable of feeling sorry for ourselves from time to time. Let's not forget that, during moments of confidence.

Now that is an excellent post.

Thanks for that, Lindya. A true voice of reason.

 

And FWIW, I happen to agree that intellect, personal awareness/confidence (without conceit) and a great sense of humour will trump looks on most any day. But I also concede that the looks need to be somewhat there...i.e. I need to not mind casting my eyes on the person. Does he need to be Johnny Depp? Not in the least. But not the elephant man, either. Just reasonable. At least, to get the attraction going...

Hey - I'm just being honest.

[Trialbyfire]

Lest we forget for the purposes of this thread, the male pack mentality. When one man finds a woman attractive, especially if he's one of the alphamales within the pack, the woman suddenly becomes irresistible to the rest. For example, woman #1.

 

As well, woman #2 might also be the more selective type who has spurned many suitors within the office, sufficiently that the sour grapes syndrome manifests.

[Star Gazer]

I can't speak for other men, but if guys are saying that to you, do you think you perhaps may give off a bit of that vibe that causes them to think that?

 

Hardly. It's universal that both men and women who don't have implants will talk sh*t about women that do. I have clients, colleagues, random people I meet out, other friends who don't know over dinner, etc. who will talk about women with implants in such a ridiculously negative fashion, and then look to me to agree with them. That's when I clue them in that I have implants, and they usually turn bright red or say exactly what you said - "Ohhh, ummmm, well I obviously didn't mean yooooouuuu, I just meant everyone ellllseeee I've met, ummmm..." After they know, they'll sometimes forget and sometime later start talking sh*t about another woman because she has implants, and when I lift my eyebrow at them, they backpeddle.

 

Yes, I have big boobs, and a portion of them are not mine. But I'm not some anorexic skinny who's baking in the Florida sun wearing a banana clip. I have class. They appear natural, and fit with my figure. That's probably why when I'm wearing normal, non-sexy clothes most people don't know until I tell them. If "fake boobs" are that obvious, it's because she had a sh*tty surgeon. I'm not trying to defend fake boobs for everyone (although I could!), but I am defending a woman's choice to get them and not be called names and put down for her very personal decision.

 

I love ya, CG, but your original comment was a pretty lame overgeneralization of ALL women with implants. Many women on this forum have implants, and you insulted us all. You said that women with implants are not as confident, funny, or happy as smaller breasted women. You also said that women with implants are insecure, arrogant, and downright boring, and driven by superficial things.

 

Now, you don't know me IRL, and you don't know my girlfriends who have "fake boobs" (you probably couldn't pick them out either), but I assure you that we are none of these things.

[oppath]

I don't have a problem with fake boobs. If it makes a woman feel more beautiful and more sexy, go for it. Living in SoCal, yes, too many people care about image, and there aren't enough awesome personalities floating around, so I steer clear of women who appear to have fake boobs, but only if the boobs are being flaunted. Otherwise, I could care less. Give me...a curious demeanor. Give me personality. The physical has to be there, but the biggest turn on to me is energy.

 

And it doesn't matter so much if someone appears unconfident or nervous, as long as I can tell that they fill their life with positive, active things.

[CaliGuy]

Hardly. It's universal that both men and women who don't have implants will talk sh*t about women that do. I have clients, colleagues, random people I meet out, other friends who don't know over dinner, etc. who will talk about women with implants in such a ridiculously negative fashion, and then look to me to agree with them. That's when I clue them in that I have implants, and they usually turn bright red or say exactly what you said - "Ohhh, ummmm, well I obviously didn't mean yooooouuuu, I just meant everyone ellllseeee I've met, ummmm..." After they know, they'll sometimes forget and sometime later start talking sh*t about another woman because she has implants, and when I lift my eyebrow at them, they backpeddle.

 

Yes, I have big boobs, and a portion of them are not mine. But I'm not some anorexic skinny who's baking in the Florida sun wearing a banana clip. I have class. They appear natural, and fit with my figure. That's probably why when I'm wearing normal, non-sexy clothes most people don't know until I tell them. If "fake boobs" are that obvious, it's because she had a sh*tty surgeon. I'm not trying to defend fake boobs for everyone (although I could!), but I am defending a woman's choice to get them and not be called names and put down for her very personal decision.

 

We have a woman here at my office that I have befriended. She knows my views on them and yes, she has them.

 

She wasn't offended in the least bit because she is not overly concerned with other people's opinion of them and she also realizes that my expeirences are not the experiences of everyone

 

[qiote]I love ya, CG, but your original comment was a pretty lame overgeneralization of ALL women with implants.

 

I did say the women I have had experience with, not all women.

 

Many women on this forum have implants, and you insulted us all.

 

My opinions shouldn't insult anyone who did doesn't act that way

 

You said that women with implants are not as confident, funny, or happy as smaller breasted women.

 

I said "in my expeirence". I didn't say you or all.

 

You also said that women with implants are insecure, arrogant, and downright boring, and driven by superficial things.

 

Most of the women I have known who have them are. I've seen women who got them go from very good spirited to "I'm too good to talk the average man now" attitudes. I've seen this first hand with at least 5 different women.

 

Now, you don't know me IRL, and you don't know my girlfriends who have "fake boobs" (you probably couldn't pick them out either), but I assure you that we are none of these things.

 

I like you too missy, but I don't see the need to defend yourself or them against my comments. As I said, that is my opinion based on the women I have interacted with. I never said that YOU in particular (or them) act this way

[directx]

Idont know what the big deal about big boobs are anyway. Nothing wrong with flat chested women at all

On a different note I really get off on personality more than the physical but the hard part is when you can't get or lose that girl you fell for, you can't replace them.

If you fall for someone just for physical, there is no emotional investment thus easy to replace