Dating for 8 years...and still no ring!

[adnCat]

Assuming it's true though, I would love to know why it's believed cohabitating before marriage increases the risk of divorce. Any ideas?

 

I've asked myself this same question. It's puzzling. From the surface it really doesn't seem like cohabitating would make the likelihood of divorce higher. Logically, you would think that it would give those in relationships the chance to bail before marrying, right?

 

So I've read quite a bit about it.

 

Before I get into my thoughts further, it is important to note a big exception to these findings. In instances where couples cohabitate before marriage, but are already planning to marry in the near future, the likelihood of divorce does not increase due to cohabitation.

 

There have been multiple studies done on this, and the results are always the same- there is a definite correlation between cohabitating before marriage and the likelihood of eventual divorce. (Notice I said correlation and not causation, big difference.) You can look at the Rutgers website for details. They report findings of studies related to cohabitation, marriage, divorce, etc, on an annual basis. So to answer your question, it is believed because studies have shown a correlation time and time again. But I think you are really asking why there is a correlation, since we already know that the correlation is a fact.

 

From what I've read and from what I think: Relationship Inertia, and the individual characteristics of those likely to engage cohabitation before marriage.

 

Let me explain:

 

Cohabitation is not permanent (or less permanent than marriage, at least). Since it is an easy move to do and undo, couples will agree to this to "advance" or "grow" in their relationship, taking it to another "step." People in situations where they aren't sure if they want marriage (and thus must "try" one another out) will move in together.

 

This brings me to what I've heard referred to as "relationship inertia."

Relationship Inertia -- people who are cohabiting end up marrying somebody they might not otherwise have married just because of the ease of marrying the one they live with and have been with.

 

It's an easier step to move in together than get married. And after cohabitating, it doesn't seem as big a move to get married. After all, what will change, assuming the partners are sleeping together already. (Well, possibly the decision to start a family. But if you are sleeping together, you are not immune to starting a family.) This same argument (nothing really changes) I've seen used by guys to circumvent marrying- "oh, it's just a piece of paper." Come on, you know you've heard it before, at least on this forum, if not or elsewhere!

 

People generally less likely to get divorced- those who highly value marriage as a permanent life change, are very opposed to the thought of divorce, or maybe are religious or conservative, are also less likely to cohabitate. On the flip side, couples that choose to cohabitate are usually more likely to see marriage as less of an event, divorce as more acceptable. Meaning, those more open to the idea that divorce is okay are more likely to cohabit, and thus, more likely to divorce if they marry. No big surprise- more acceptable of divorce = more likely to divorce. I don't really like this argument, but it may stand to reason depending on your viewpoint. I'm not totally in line with this is because I know that the divorce rate for, say, Christian marriages, is surprisingly on par with that of the rest of the population.

 

Anyway, I think it is a combination of relationship inertia and the type of individual that would agree to cohabit. But mostly relationship inertia.

 

Again, I recognize these are generalizations here. But just thought I'd put in my few cents. Or dollar. I can get wordy, sorry.

[thelittlespoon]

The divorce rate is actually higher those individuals who live together before marriage..so sorry it's not true that if you live together before you get married you are less likely to get divorced. Actually living together when your married vs. unmarried is very different. You could live together wonderfully when your dating, but its a whole different situation when your married. I really don't think it matters whether or not you've lived together before marriage or not, it's all about how compatible you are as a couple. Usually people don't get divorced solely for the reason that they don't like living with each other. Usually you can find out each other's habits beforehand even if you haven't actually lived together.

 

I think the guy is using total b.s. excuses. Using the condition that he won't marry you unless he lives with you first is really stupid. He's just stalling believe me. To the poster, decide what it is you want, don't let him sway you with the living together line. He wants a wife without actually having to make you his, and by living with him that's what your doing. If your ready to get married and he's not, then you really need to think about if this is worth waiting for. It sounds as though you are already starting to resent the fact that he doesn't want to marry you, so I seriously would think about talking to him.

 

I've heard the statistics showing that cohabitating prior to marriage gives you a higher risk of divorce as well, but I completely disagree with it. I still stick by my feelings that it is important to live together before marriage. When you are making a decision as important as who you are going to spend the rest of your life with, I don't see how you could jump into marriage without doing a little research beforehand. I feel that living together before marriage, or even before an engagement, is a valuable experience. When you are married and problems arise, I think that you are less likely to walk away from the problem because of the ring. It's like you HAVE to be there and HAVE to work it out. When you are living together without anything being held over your head other than your own free will, you don't have think, "well, we're married, so we have to work this out." Instead you can choose to walk away, or you can work it out because you WANT to, and not because you HAVE to. Doing the whole commitment thing, minus the ring, is doing it for YOURSELF. Knowing you can walk away at anytime, and you don't is a great expression of love. When my boyfriend and I get into a fight and he stays there and tries to work out the problem with me, I know that he is being patient and trying to compromise because he loves me, and that he could storm out and never come back, but he chooses to stay put. And there is no wedding ring to remind him that we have to work out our probelms because we are married and need to make our marriage work.

 

I'm telling you that living together is an experience like no other. You really don't know what you're getting into until you experience it first hand. Living with someone is so much deeper than what people make it out to be.

[thelittlespoon]

this guy is stringing you along and probably has no intention of marrying you. and once you move in together there will be even less probablity of marriage. eight yrs is a long time to date and not be married.

 

another piece of advice. if a guy is serious about marriage with you he'll generally ask after 2 years.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your second paragraph. I don't think that 2 years of dating is a long enough time to be together before you take the plunge. I don't care if that is a guy point of view - this is my girl point of view, and I say that 2 years is still too early on. So, with your logic, you are basically saying that if a couple starts dating at 18 and 2 years later when they are 20, the guy must ask the girl to marry him, or else he's just not serious about marriage? That is just stupid.

 

I say that after 4 years of dating, that is a perfect time to start with the whole marriage step. I just don't understand couples who marry after a year or two of dating. 8 years IS a long time, and the original poster's boyfriend does sound like he's dicking around, but in a normal, healthy relationship I'd say the longer the better. Again, marriage is supposed to last a lifetime, why rush to the altar?

[adnCat]

deleted-double post

[adnCat]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your second paragraph. I don't think that 2 years of dating is a long enough time to be together before you take the plunge. I don't care if that is a guy point of view - this is my girl point of view, and I say that 2 years is still too early on. So, with your logic, you are basically saying that if a couple starts dating at 18 and 2 years later when they are 20, the guy must ask the girl to marry him, or else he's just not serious about marriage? That is just stupid.

 

I say that after 4 years of dating, that is a perfect time to start with the whole marriage step. I just don't understand couples who marry after a year or two of dating. 8 years IS a long time, and the original poster's boyfriend does sound like he's dicking around, but in a normal, healthy relationship I'd say the longer the better. Again, marriage is supposed to last a lifetime, why rush to the altar?

 

Yeah, this two year rule is too broad of a generalization! There are too many other factors to consider.

 

I came to forums wondering when I'd get married, and nearly everyone tried to convince me that he was stringing me along. I took the advice with a huge grain of salt, opting to follow my heart. He did wait 8 years, but he has more conviction in his actions and decision than the next guy. I know people that got engaged after two weeks of dating, got married, and years later are still going strong. It depends on the couple.

[amymarieca]

Thanks again everyone for the great advice. I do have to disagree somewhat about the 2 year rule. You have to realize that I was 18 when I started dating him, so that would make me 20 and engaged? That just seems way too young.

 

Another thing I should note, and I am not trying to justify his actions, that for 5 of those years I was in university and paying for it myself. Getting engaged was absolutely out of the question. I've been out of school for two years now.

 

My boyfriend doesn't say that he isn't going to marry me. He says he is afraid and not ready. I guess he would feel better if we lived together so that we know we get along. He does talk about it favourably though, so I guess maybe that is a good thing. Another thing is that, and again this isn't really an excuse, but his mom has been divorced twice and married 3 times.

 

Do you think maybe I am being too pushy by asking for a ring now?

[thelittlespoon]

Thanks again everyone for the great advice. I do have to disagree somewhat about the 2 year rule. You have to realize that I was 18 when I started dating him, so that would make me 20 and engaged? That just seems way too young.

 

Another thing I should note, and I am not trying to justify his actions, that for 5 of those years I was in university and paying for it myself. Getting engaged was absolutely out of the question. I've been out of school for two years now.

 

My boyfriend doesn't say that he isn't going to marry me. He says he is afraid and not ready. I guess he would feel better if we lived together so that we know we get along. He does talk about it favourably though, so I guess maybe that is a good thing. Another thing is that, and again this isn't really an excuse, but his mom has been divorced twice and married 3 times.

 

Do you think maybe I am being too pushy by asking for a ring now?

 

No, I don't think you are being pushy at all. 8 years IS a long time. BUT...

 

Here is something to ponder - Is asking for a ring now because you guys have been together for so long, worth having him get engaged before he is ready? Don't you want him to propose when HE wants to? Wouldn't be more special? Could you stay in the relationship knowing that he proposed because you pushed him into it?

 

As for the thing about his mom being married and divorced several times, I can understand his concern for wanting to live together first. He actually may be honest with his intentions, if you factor in his reasoning behind it. But, if you feel in your heart that living together without the promise of a ring isn't for you, then don't do it.

[amymarieca]

No, I don't think you are being pushy at all. 8 years IS a long time. BUT...

 

Here is something to ponder - Is asking for a ring now because you guys have been together for so long, worth having him get engaged before he is ready? Don't you want him to propose when HE wants to? Wouldn't be more special? Could you stay in the relationship knowing that he proposed because you pushed him into it?

 

I can understand what you are saying. The truth is that the reason why I have been with him so long is because I am very much in love with him. I want to make it official and eventually have kids with him. I do think it would be more special if he was ready to give me a ring, which is part of the reason why I agreed to break the deal. I could never accept a ring knowing that he was forced into it. I guess what hurts is that we looked at rings, talked about it, I even picked out one I liked and then he breaks it too me that he is too scared just yet. I feel hurt that I was lead on, but at the same time I don't want to force him to propose.

[Mary3]

With many young people rushing into marriage a few months into their relationships , its refreshing to know that he is at 8 years , still wanting to test you out , still wants to be with you and wants to see if cohabitating will work... ( who knows the end result here )

 

I think he is smart. I think you are smarter if you move in and see how it goes. ( Thats if you want to do it . And maybe it leads to marraige )

 

Nobody can predict longevity in marraige or relationships.

 

People change... Meet someone new... Decide they want that one instead of this one....

 

Live in this moment.

 

I know pro marraige might disagree.

 

I am pro single

 

sucessfully single....lovin it.

[norajane]

My boyfriend doesn't say that he isn't going to marry me. He says he is afraid and not ready. I guess he would feel better if we lived together so that we know we get along.

 

You've been together for 8 years. 8 years. He isn't sure you'd get along?? Do you get along in your relationship? You've carried on for a long time - I can't imagine there's much he doesn't know about you by now.

 

The truth is that the reason why I have been with him so long is because I am very much in love with him.

 

And does he feel the same way about you? Because men in love don't need to live with you before they know they're in love with you.

 

I guess what hurts is that we looked at rings, talked about it, I even picked out one I liked and then he breaks it too me that he is too scared just yet. I feel hurt that I was lead on, but at the same time I don't want to force him to propose.

 

Has he articulated what he is afraid of? Exactly? If he wants you to accept and understand his fears, he needs to be able to tell you what he's afraid of. You two are hardly strangers!

 

Have you talked about the important issues: children, how you will handle finances, what kind of lifestyle you want to live, what you see in your future as a married couple? Do you agree on those issues?

 

I've done the living together thing, and the only thing living together teaches you is how to be roommates.

[Lauriebell82]

 

Have you talked about the important issues: children, how you will handle finances, what kind of lifestyle you want to live, what you see in your future as a married couple? Do you agree on those issues?

 

I've done the living together thing, and the only thing living together teaches you is how to be roommates.

 

Yeah, I totally agree. I really don't think living together successfully will ensure that your marriage will last. Couples usually don't get divorced soley on the reason that they don't like living with each other. So if thats what he is worried about he shouldn't be. I guess all you can do is wait until he is ready or leave the relationship to find someone who will want to marry you sooner.

[thelittlespoon]

With many young people rushing into marriage a few months into their relationships , its refreshing to know that he is at 8 years , still wanting to test you out , still wants to be with you and wants to see if cohabitating will work... ( who knows the end result here )

 

I think he is smart. I think you are smarter if you move in and see how it goes. ( Thats if you want to do it . And maybe it leads to marraige )

 

Nobody can predict longevity in marraige or relationships.

 

People change... Meet someone new... Decide they want that one instead of this one....

 

Live in this moment.

 

I know pro marraige might disagree.

 

I am pro single

 

sucessfully single....lovin it.

 

Even though I am not single, I agree with everything said here.

 

I honestly believe that too many people rush into marriage, and more often than not, it is for the wrong reasons. People get married so that they can have sex or for religious reasons. They get married so that it becomes "acceptable" to live together without judgement from family, friend, or society in general. I know a girl who just bought a house with her boyfriend of a year-and-a-half and her family did not accept her cohabitating so she had to pressure him for a ring - and he gave it to her, but not for the right reasons. And that is where I believe that the problem falls - society being accepting of that kind of marriage pressure. Yes, my boyfriend and I constantly get "So, now that you've been living together, when are you finally going to get married?" ALL OF THE TIME and it is so ANNOYING! It's like, whoa, whatever.

 

And truthfully, nothing in life is guaranteed. I hope that my guy and I last a lifetime, but you really have to take it day by day. Just because a couple is engaged or married doesn't mean that their relationship is stronger, healthier, and prone to longevity as compared to a couple who isn't married, or engaged to be - and vice versa.

 

I think that another problem with the trail of thought is that people automatically assume that engaged/married couples are "happier" than unmarried/cohabitating couples. I'm sorry, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. There are no guarantees either way - all stages in relationships take work from both parties. There is never an easy ride when you are in a relationship. All couples argue and fight. Everyone is at risk for a break up or divorce. No one is immune to the probability that their significant other could cheat somewhere down the line. People can even just fall out of love, and not always in unison. People change and want different things. This is not true for everyone, but who are we kidding - every relationship is a risk, no matter how your relationship takes its course.

 

However, I firmly believe that getting to know and live with your S.O. BEFORE marriage for a considerable amount of time (several years), then you get that chance to grow together (or grow apart) and really decide if this person is right for you.

[adnCat]

Nobody can predict longevity in marraige or relationships.

 

Dr. John Gottman is pretty darn good at it. After 15 minutes of observation, he can predict, with over 90% accuracy, whether or not they will still be together in 10 years. He's based out of a University in Seattle.

[allina]

I do have to disagree somewhat about the 2 year rule. You have to realize that I was 18 when I started dating him, so that would make me 20 and engaged? That just seems way too young.

 

 

I think you are correct here, there are always exceptions and I don't think anyone should get married at 20 years old. But I think in most adult relationships if a man plans on marring his gf he is sure after two years and makes his intentions clear.

 

No matter what spin you put on things after 8 years your bf still isn't sure, if a man is sure he works stuff out to make things happen.

 

I would suggest backing off with pressure to get engaged but maybe try focusing on why he isn't ready. Plus who wants to force someone to marry them anyways?

[corazoncito]

Even though I am not single, I agree with everything said here.

 

I honestly believe that too many people rush into marriage, and more often than not, it is for the wrong reasons.

 

I agree 100%. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that the divorce rate would probably drop a significant degree if less people were getting married. People tie the knot without thinking through what it really means and then when they realize they don't like being in a relationship or they don't like their SO, they divorce. That approach, to me, cheapens marriage so much that I understand why some people think of it as "just a piece of paper".

 

I think that another problem with the trail of thought is that people automatically assume that engaged/married couples are "happier" than unmarried/cohabitating couples. I'm sorry, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. There are no guarantees either way - all stages in relationships take work from both parties.

 

I also agree with this. I know happy and unhappy couples on both sides of the marriage vs. live together divide.

 

However, I firmly believe that getting to know and live with your S.O. BEFORE marriage for a considerable amount of time (several years), then you get that chance to grow together (or grow apart) and really decide if this person is right for you.

 

I have no problem with couples living together (having kids, buying property) before or simply without marriage. But I also understand those who say living together isn't necessary to building a strong commitment prior to marriage.

 

My gut feeling is that if you have really good communication skills, patience, and commitment to your partner, you'll be fine whether you live together or not first. If you move in together and break up before you get engaged/married, obviously you would have never made it as a married couple (on many levels). But just because you live together successfully prior to marriage doesn't mean you will have a successful marriage.

 

I think it has to do with commitment. If, when you begin to cohabitate (whether married or not), you feel a deep sense of commitment to the relationship and each other and good communications skills, you have a much better shot of long-term success than a couple who cohabitates (again married or not) but has not yet established a true commitment and approaches the cohabitation as "let's see what happens, if it works out".

 

I don't think that being married automatically puts you in the "committed" camp or that living together without marriage automatically puts you into the "let's see what happens" camp, although a lot of people assume that.

[Mary3]

Dr. John Gottman is pretty darn good at it. After 15 minutes of observation, he can predict, with over 90% accuracy, whether or not they will still be together in 10 years. He's based out of a University in Seattle.

 

I should re~phrase that to say " No couple can predict the longevity of their marraige / relationship "

[Mary3]

Even though I am not single, I agree with everything said here.

 

I honestly believe that too many people rush into marriage, and more often than not, it is for the wrong reasons. People get married so that they can have sex or for religious reasons. They get married so that it becomes "acceptable" to live together without judgement from family, friend, or society in general. I know a girl who just bought a house with her boyfriend of a year-and-a-half and her family did not accept her cohabitating so she had to pressure him for a ring - and he gave it to her, but not for the right reasons. And that is where I believe that the problem falls - society being accepting of that kind of marriage pressure. Yes, my boyfriend and I constantly get "So, now that you've been living together, when are you finally going to get married?" ALL OF THE TIME and it is so ANNOYING! It's like, whoa, whatever.

 

And truthfully, nothing in life is guaranteed. I hope that my guy and I last a lifetime, but you really have to take it day by day. Just because a couple is engaged or married doesn't mean that their relationship is stronger, healthier, and prone to longevity as compared to a couple who isn't married, or engaged to be - and vice versa.

 

I think that another problem with the trail of thought is that people automatically assume that engaged/married couples are "happier" than unmarried/cohabitating couples. I'm sorry, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. There are no guarantees either way - all stages in relationships take work from both parties. There is never an easy ride when you are in a relationship. All couples argue and fight. Everyone is at risk for a break up or divorce. No one is immune to the probability that their significant other could cheat somewhere down the line. People can even just fall out of love, and not always in unison. People change and want different things. This is not true for everyone, but who are we kidding - every relationship is a risk, no matter how your relationship takes its course.

 

However, I firmly believe that getting to know and live with your S.O. BEFORE marriage for a considerable amount of time (several years), then you get that chance to grow together (or grow apart) and really decide if this person is right for you.

 

Very beautifully spoken !

[alphamale]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your second paragraph. I don't think that 2 years of dating is a long enough time to be together before you take the plunge. I don't care if that is a guy point of view - this is my girl point of view, and I say that 2 years is still too early on.

well TLS...the stats show that for couples that end up eventually getting married the couple got engaged around the 2 year mark, give or take 6 months either way (so between 1.5 to 2.5 yrs)....

[rainfall]

well TLS...the stats show that for couples that end up eventually getting married the couple got engaged around the 2 year mark, give or take 6 months either way (so between 1.5 to 2.5 yrs)....

 

 

I am sure at least half of these men proposed because the women started freakin out and thinking they had to get married right then and there. They didn't want to wait until the man was actually ready so they pressured him into proposing to early.

[alphamale]

They didn't want to wait until the man was actually ready so they pressured him into proposing to early.

If they waited until the man was truly ready then they'd never get married.

[Krytellan]

Assuming it's true though, I would love to know why it's believed cohabitating before marriage increases the risk of divorce. Any ideas?

 

Because when people cohabitate before marriage, everyone is still on their best behavior. After marriage, people become more comfortable being who they are, and inevitably, this will lead to one or both saying "You aren't the person I married" and things of this nature. Cohabitation creates a "false reality" of who the person really is that is inevitably going to change after marriage.

[Krytellan]

Let's face it, he doesn't have to propose to you. He's "getting the milk for free", why buy the cow after 8 years?

 

I understand the argument about 2 years being an arbitrary and inaccurate number, but 8 years? Come on. He obviously has no intention, and there is no reason for him to. By you being willing to put up with it this long, it's almost unfair of you to force him into it.

 

In my honest opinion, I would not be the least bit surprised to find out later that he left you for someone else. Nothing against you, but he really just sounds like he's willing to ride this relationship as long as it takes for him to find someone else, and when that someone eventually comes along... see ya, and he'll propose to her in 2 years, guaranteed.

 

This adolescent "I'm afraid and not ready" crap is ridiculous. I can't believe that is acceptable to you after 8 years. You are as much to blame for this situation, and if you never marry him, as he is.

[Lauriebell82]

Let's face it, he doesn't have to propose to you. He's "getting the milk for free", why buy the cow after 8 years?

 

I understand the argument about 2 years being an arbitrary and inaccurate number, but 8 years? Come on. He obviously has no intention, and there is no reason for him to. By you being willing to put up with it this long, it's almost unfair of you to force him into it.

 

In my honest opinion, I would not be the least bit surprised to find out later that he left you for someone else. Nothing against you, but he really just sounds like he's willing to ride this relationship as long as it takes for him to find someone else, and when that someone eventually comes along... see ya, and he'll propose to her in 2 years, guaranteed.

 

This adolescent "I'm afraid and not ready" crap is ridiculous. I can't believe that is acceptable to you after 8 years. You are as much to blame for this situation, and if you never marry him, as he is.

 

Yeah, I completely agree. I mean yeah lets say he really isn't ready to get married. Well, you are which means you want different things. If you do feel that he is worth waiting around for, then you can. I really wouldn't move in with him, your compromising what you want. That's not fair to you or him.

[sb129]

I know 8 years is a long time, but the couple still are only 26 and 28.

There is plenty of time to get married!!!!

 

Marriage at this age (or any, for that matter) isn't essential, and if one partner isn't ready, then its not a good idea.

And pressuring him isn't going to make him more receptive to the idea.

 

I have no problems with co-habitation, in fact, I am about to move in with my BF, and we have been together less than a year.

There are a few reasons why co-habitation is the best option for us right now, and unfortunately, money is one of them.

But I am really excited! i can't wait to see him every day.

We have both co-habited with partners before (obviously unsuccessfully) and are both in our early 30s (well I am nearly 30), so we are both aware of the pitfalls, and are not naive enough to think it will be all roses.

 

I don't think that because we are moving in together that will mean that we are less likely to get married.

 

I know my BFs views on marriage and he knows mine.

[Mary3]

But the real question : How does he treat you after 8 years ? Is he good to you ? Kind and caring ?

 

What if you were lucky enough to have a great guy and he was willing to give you 8 more years of love ? But lets say he was not the marrying kind ?

 

What if he continued to be the wonderful person you know and grew to love ? I would take 8 years of love ( married or not ) with a man who treated me with great respect.

 

Say you don't ever get married but he fills your life with love ? Can you take the love without the wedding gown and the 3 tier cake ?

 

I know I would take the gifts of love and take that into the years....