The OW can actually save a marriage...

[EnigmaXOXO]

Hey Lizzie, I won’t cut and paste you’re entire response, rather I’ll simply refer to it when sharing my perspective.

 

I think it was very responsible for you to suggest a marriage councilor to this particular fellow as a means to address his more serious issues. You provide a service to those with addictions, much like the bar owner who profits by selling whiskey to the alcoholic. The alcoholic drinks so he can go home to the wife and kids feeling a little “happier,” too. But he only manages to anesthetize himself temporarily, and when the ‘high’ wares off, all his problems are still there... and so is the big pink elephant sitting in his lap. Worse yet, the serious consequences of his addiction will only escalate at home and at work. The repercussions of which are felt more by the loved ones in his life who haven’t self-medicated themselves against reality like he has.

 

So... back to the bar Mr. Joe Miserable goes for another “fix”, and the guy pouring the drinks is all to happy to take his money and profit from his misfortune. Shoot, he’ll even lend the poor shmuck a sympathetic ear and some friendly advice if it keeps him coming back ... just like you do. But as long as the bartender or the sex professional has their own financial agendas to meet ... they’re certainly not going to genuinely care enough about the client’s well-being to deny him service, cut off his supply, and force him into getting the real help he and his family needs.

 

Shoot. Even professional councilors rarely work for free. But at least they don’t enable their client’s addiction by continuing to feed it with one hand, while shaking a finger at it with the other.

 

This is in no way a dig at what you do for a living. Heck, I’m among those who think it should be legalized... for reasons too many to get into. But I think being professional requires that you maintain a realistic perspective about the kind of service you provide and those you are providing it to. Indeed, you are filling a much sought after “need” for a particular clientele... but it’s hardly about fixing broken people, broken families or broken relationships. So let’s keep it real.

 

NOW ... if you were a sex therapist who used your skills to work one-on-one with consenting “couples” ... my personal take on how it might “benefit and foster healthy, happy relationships” would be entirely different.

[bish]

maybe he is... or he will... and if she doesn't know about it, how can she be hurt?.

 

Well that makes it all ok then doesn't it.

 

Since that is the case, I hope someone cheats on your daughter. Better yet, I hope she finds out. And if/when that does, don't you dare jump down her man's throat. Because remember, you condone it.

[Art_Critic]

AC, how awful for you! I'm so sorry.

 

Thanks HAL.. I have always posted in the OW/MM forum as someone who was a child growing up in a OW/MM relationship..

Kinda a voice for the children that people sometimes forget while the affair is happening..

It matters to the children.. trust me on that...

[raincloud]

Well that makes it all ok then doesn't it.

 

Since that is the case, I hope someone cheats on your daughter. Better yet, I hope she finds out. And if/when that does, don't you dare jump down her man's throat. Because remember, you condone it.

 

 

Okay bish...calm down. For some reason I think this is exactly why this topic was posted. I'm on your side.....

 

I can't stand the thought of my husbands OW, but I don't think I could ever really wish this to happen to her. If she ever fully realizes the pain she has helped inflict and the remorse, then that would be enough.

[Havn_a_life]

If she ever fully realizes the pain she has helped inflict and the remorse, then that would be enough.

 

Exactly.

 

Plus, a heartfelt apology would be nice.

[Lizzie60]

I'll agree.. and I don't think you are the worst person on this planet either.. I may not like your lifestyle or occupational choices but I give you props for posting here honestly and I respect your viewpoint..

 

That's the way I like it... live and let live. Thanks.

[Lizzie60]

Oh Lizzie...

your posts are bound to stir the pot up with your controversial views, but I appreciate your detremination to stand by your points, which you are most definitely entitled to.

 

I think these threads turn into the ol' beating of the dead horse because while the majority of people cannot seperate sex from love, it appears much like those married men who are serial sexual cheaters (or not necessarily serial) she can seperate love from sex. It appears Lizzie sees it for what a lot of these men see it, simply variety in sex.

 

 

I think her comparisson to a sexual fling in a marriage is akin to saying going out to strippers adds that extra spark in a rel, beacuse the man comes home excited and it spices things up for the otherwise sexually bored couple.

 

I don't personally agree wither either scenario for my own life BUT I can tell you this much, I respect what Lizzie does more than some people who are out to usurp a partner from another human being who is married. At least she keeps the emotions out of it, the marriage is no more in danger from the man sleeping with Lizzie than it is from the H going to a strip joint.

 

Marriage is totally over rated and to expect two people to remain monogamous for their entire lives togteher is like expecting to win the lottery, yeah sure it happens but how often? Marriage is a business difference is women buy into the whole romatic "until eternity" thing far more than men do. It appears Lizzie thinks more like a guy.

 

....my posts are bound to stir the pot up because of my controversial views. I can understand that...

 

and you're right I can separate love and sex... while many OW can't, and as you say.. the MM is much safer with me... LOL

 

I truly don't believe in monogamous for a long period of time... I do for the beginning (and even then...) but as far as 'til death do us part' it's more 'til death do us part or five years, whichever comes first' LOL It's simply impossible IMO.

[raincloud]

Exactly.

 

Plus, a heartfelt apology would be nice.

 

I can't help it I'm gonna threadjack here....

 

OW did give me a semi-apology....she also said that she was praying that God would give us peace and strength in the days ahead to get through the pain....I told her that I didn't think God granted peace for those who knowingly committed adultery...she never answered me back on that one.

 

Okay, back to the business at hand....

[Lizzie60]

I've been divorced twice and my 15 year old daughter was 4 when her dad and I divorced. I knew that my ex was cheating but I didn't know who the woman was. My daughter knew who it was because when we were married her dad would take her with him sometimes to have lunch with his "friend" who became my daughter's stepmom.

 

We had been divorced several years before my daughter told me why she has never liked her Stepmom, which I have always (still do) encouraged her to try to have a good and respectful relationship with her Stepmom.

It was really heartbreaking to hear my daughter's pain over why she has had a difficult time accepting and likeing her Stepmom. The wives and kids are more aware than you may realize.

 

I blame the cheating spouses not the OW or OM. They should leave their partners before they cheat. It is incredibly selfish for a cheating spouse to put their wives at risk of STD's, psycho harrassment and the use of family funds to support their weak ego'd adulterous lifestyle. Isn't the commitment in marriage about being monogamous? Forsaking all others, through sickness and health, etc.

 

He was a jerk to do that... and I truly feel sorry for that poor kid who, later, had to 'accept' this woman as her stepmom... this is sooo weird... and sick in a way. I have the biggest respect for children...they do not deserve to be hurt in any divorce or anything like that. People have to be careful and make sure that these little kids are not involved in any way in the affair.

[Havn_a_life]

yep, xOW apologised to me too, when she thought I was going to give her a beat down. (I wasn't, of course. I'm classier than a brawl with a bimbo)

 

When I said to her "You F'd my H", she said, "yes, and I'm sorry for that".

 

You can tell if someone gives you an apology you can believe. Just by the way it comes out of their mouth.

 

I'm not holding my breath for that "I'm sorry for cheating with your H".

[Lizzie60]

My father was a serial cheater.. one of my many sisters was born out of one of his affairs as an illegitimate child.

That isn't showing respect for his own daughter..

 

As someone who grew up watching my father cheat on both of my mothers I can tell you that it is an act of disrespect for the children as well...

 

The pain that I felt for the hurt he caused me and my family.. the negativity that he caused because of his cheating.. the therapy that still exists today even 20 years after his death is a testament that it certainly wasn't respect he was showing all of us..

 

It was disrespect when he was with her instead of being at my high school track meets..

or disrespectful when he would shorten our vacations so he could all of a sudden disappear as soon as he got home.

 

It was disrespectful to us that he would spend time with her kids playing football instead of being home playing football with us..

 

It was disrespectful when he would spend time with her instead of spending time with us as a family.. We were only upstairs eating.. he would be downstairs on the phone getting ready to leave for the " Airport " to meet a client.

 

The list could go on and on forever seeing that he was a serial cheater that cheated most of his 32 years of marriage while being married to both of my mothers..

 

See.. you may not see the harm that is being done.. but just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't actually happening..

 

I know it must have been hard for you... My dad was a serial cheater too...and an alcoholic. He was a total mean jerk...

 

I know it's not fair to the children..they have done nothing... but, I will talk about my case, I can't talk about others, but for me... it is crucial that we do not mix his personal/family life with our affair...

 

I agree that just because I don't see it it's not happening... I know this is true in some cases...but I guarantee you, that in my case, it's not happening. Most of the time I know what is going on, prior to their call...blablabla...and there is no way the family can even 'doubt'. We are extremely careful...and if they were talking chances, they would be 'out. I have very good 'specimens' LOL... they are good persons (I think I already said that LOL)...but they are.

[mopar crazy]

I haven't read all the replies. Was my WH happier when he was having an A w/ his OW? Yes, I would say he was. Was I happier b/c he was happier and actually treating me better. F@CK NO! I knew he was banging this bitch, how could that make our M happier?

 

 

 

I wouldn't want my H to have an A to make him happy. If he is unhappy in the M we can either go to MC and get to the problem or get D. Having an A is not the way to make a M better. Anyone who thinks that is not playing w/ a full deck.

 

Lizzie, maybe your MM is happier and treats his W good b/c he is getting some freaky sex w/ you but do you think their M would be happy if the BW found out? HELL NO! And I would hope she would kick his @ss to the curb!

[Lizzie60]

Hey Lizzie, I won’t cut and paste you’re entire response, rather I’ll simply refer to it when sharing my perspective.

 

I think it was very responsible for you to suggest a marriage councilor to this particular fellow as a means to address his more serious issues. You provide a service to those with addictions, much like the bar owner who profits by selling whiskey to the alcoholic. The alcoholic drinks so he can go home to the wife and kids feeling a little “happier,” too. But he only manages to anesthetize himself temporarily, and when the ‘high’ wares off, all his problems are still there... and so is the big pink elephant sitting in his lap. Worse yet, the serious consequences of his addiction will only escalate at home and at work. The repercussions of which are felt more by the loved ones in his life who haven’t self-medicated themselves against reality like he has.

 

So... back to the bar Mr. Joe Miserable goes for another “fix”, and the guy pouring the drinks is all to happy to take his money and profit from his misfortune. Shoot, he’ll even lend the poor shmuck a sympathetic ear and some friendly advice if it keeps him coming back ... just like you do. But as long as the bartender or the sex professional has their own financial agendas to meet ... they’re certainly not going to genuinely care enough about the client’s well-being to deny him service, cut off his supply, and force him into getting the real help he and his family needs.

 

Shoot. Even professional councilors rarely work for free. But at least they don’t enable their client’s addiction by continuing to feed it with one hand, while shaking a finger at it with the other.

 

This is in no way a dig at what you do for a living. Heck, I’m among those who think it should be legalized... for reasons too many to get into. But I think being professional requires that you maintain a realistic perspective about the kind of service you provide and those you are providing it to. Indeed, you are filling a much sought after “need” for a particular clientele... but it’s hardly about fixing broken people, broken families or broken relationships. So let’s keep it real.

 

NOW ... if you were a sex therapist who used your skills to work one-on-one with consenting “couples” ... my personal take on how it might “benefit and foster healthy, happy relationships” would be entirely different.

 

Shoot. Even professional councilors rarely work for free. But at least they don’t enable their client’s addiction by continuing to feed it with one hand, while shaking a finger at it with the other.

 

Oh yeah... give me a break...LOL Do you actually think that the lawyers on these cases, the psychotherapists do not feed on their clients' misery... come on... let's keep it real (your word)...

 

I almost see myself as a sex therapist in some cases, working on a one-on-one basis with the consenting 'cheater'... I think in a way that it does benefit his wife... but I will not start my explanations all over again...

 

We all have very different point of views on cheating... I guess.

[nittygritty]

I agree with you nittygritty, but I also believe the OW/OM also have to own up to their part. Especially if they know that their prospective partner is married with children. It angers me that some people have such utter disrespect for the family unit anymore...you just don't mess with someone else's territory. It is playing with fire.

 

I understand and if I had stayed married to him, I would probably feel the same way but my bad experiences have made me a stronger person and a better parent than I think I would have been had I not had to go through difficult and painful experiences. It was an unwelcomed learning experience and now I can see that the OW really did me a favour. Especially, when she calls me while she is driving around looking for him wondering where he is at and what he may be doing.

[luvmy2ns]

Later he told me that he is now happier at home, since his needs are fulfilled outside on a regular basis. They are 'best friends', she's a loving wife and a caring mother... He really don't want to leave but he needs sex... that's all. He also knows he can trust me. I know she will never find out because we see each other during the day.

 

I really don't think it's a big deal.. no one is hurt... everyone is happy.

 

OMG! Everyone is happy? You know that the BS is happy because the MM tells you, eh? Let me clue you in, honey. The MM is happy because he's "having his cake and eating it too." It amazes me how someone so dull can actually run a computer.

 

As for this separation of sex and love BS, what they're separating isn't sex and love, it's love and commitment. These MM's made a commitment to these women, and they are shi--ing all over it. Now there's a whole passel of "good men" for you. And they aren't "serial cheaters" because, with your lifestyle, they don't HAVE to be! Most of the OW on this site are actually trying to find love, though I don't agree with their methods. What you are is a safeplace for cheating men! They don't NEED to become serial cheaters because you will NEVER turn them down!

 

Un-f'ing-believable how some people will try to rationalize their misbehavior.

[InsanityImpaired]

Don't forget that the marriage is formally business transaction. The whole romantic ideal may never have played a part. To pretend that all marriages would be happy if it were not for OW/ OM is not warranted.

 

Sometimes people simply don't divorce because they cannot stand the thought of giving up their lifestyle, and give greater weight than to anything else. That is one of the many reasons BS may stay with serial adulterers. If we consider such a marriage, would the BS want to know, if (s)he does not want to leave regardless of the cheater's actions? And this scenario is not uncommon at all.

 

Other times, an EA may actually improve the quality of the lives of those involved, even if that leads to the dissolution of the relationship or marriage. This could be the case in (physically) abusive relationships or marriages. I doubt anyone would advocate the sanctity of marriage if that means one of the people ends up killed as a consequence.

 

In other cases affairs literally wreak havoc. Undoubtedly quite a few people posted to that extent in this thread.

 

Blanket generalizations that affairs are always good or bad are false.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I think in a way that it does benefit his wife... but I will not start my explanations all over again

 

but only if she doesn't know, once she finds out she's a fool and he's using her. Or in the case of a serial cheater which means he engages in this activity with someone other than you?

[nittygritty]

He was a jerk to do that... and I truly feel sorry for that poor kid who, later, had to 'accept' this woman as her stepmom... this is sooo weird... and sick in a way. I have the biggest respect for children...they do not deserve to be hurt in any divorce or anything like that. People have to be careful and make sure that these little kids are not involved in any way in the affair.

 

I really like your posts Lizzie. I think that you are smart, funny and really helpful on these forums. I don't think that your intentions are to harm anyone but I think that you may be hurting yourself, whether you realize it or not.

 

I don't know what life experiences you have had that led you to not be able to see that your worthy of so much more than your accepting from your relationships with men. If you really are happy with it, I apologize but the personality that comes across in your posts doesn't fit with someone who would be okay with it.

[FavoriteHeadache]

This has probably been discussed before... but I truly believe that in many cases, a marriage can be saved because one of the spouse (mostly men) is having an affair. This is a serious thought, I'm not trying to stir the pot... I'm just tired of hearing that OW/OM are dogs...

 

In my experience, I've been told that it actually rejuvenated their boring marriage. The cheating spouse is usually happier and he makes his family happier... The MMs I'm seeing are all good fathers and they all love their wives. They treat them well. They don't want to hurt her. We talk about their wife, they will ask me advices... we talk about their kids (that's their favourite subject, LOL)

 

Plus in some cases, they have more sex with their wife, it boosts their sexual life for some reason. I guess it could be the fantasy of the OW...

 

I would never ask a MM to leave his wife... I am not 'in love' with any of them.. It's fun, we connect on all levels.

 

I've heard it from most of the MMs that I've seen that it does help their marriage, otherwise they would just leave their wife and children... and everyone would be hurt.

 

I know most won't agree with me but I truly don't blame any OW/OM...and not just because I'm one. I honestly think it helps.

 

 

BOW WOW WOW!!!!

LOL!

You might have a valid point imo.

Really!

[Lizzie60]

I really like your posts Lizzie. I think that you are smart, funny and really helpful on these forums. I don't think that your intentions are to harm anyone but I think that you may be hurting yourself, whether you realize it or not.

 

I don't know what life experiences you have had that led you to not be able to see that your worthy of so much more than your accepting from your relationships with men. If you really are happy with it, I apologize but the personality that comes across in your posts doesn't fit with someone who would be okay with it.

 

Don't worry I am not hurting myself one bit... I've been in relationships most of my life... (23 years total). I'm almost 55, and now I know what I want. I want to be free, single and have as much sex as I possibly can before I get all dried up like a small raisin... LOL

 

Seriously, don't think that I have low self-esteem and not worthy of a better life... I love my life now... I've never been happier... I know this is hard to believe but it's true. I am extremely independant, in all aspects and I know I am good looking and have a great body... I'm proud of how I look.

 

I have a good, well paid job, in the gov't, I have amazing friends... a wonderful (THE most wonderful) daughter who is expecting my 'little treasure' in the fall... and that keeps me quite busy too... I am doing all the decoration for the nursery and doing all the crib linens, curtains, etc. I love that. I have many lovers... but most of all, I enjoy being alone, I never get bored and lonely... My life is 'full' and happy.

 

So I only hope I could have the life I have right this moment for many many years to come.

[Havn_a_life]

I've heard guys say, who've cheated on their Ws, that when they actually opened their eyes and compared the OW to their W (in all ways)they had the eye opener that they must have been crazy to cheat on their W.

 

They said when they thought of it that way, it was a big eye opener.

 

The biggest eye opener to most was when they asked themselves, "if this woman is willing to cheat with me, a MM, what kind of person is she (the OW) really?"

 

Just telling my observations.

[raincloud]

I understand and if I had stayed married to him, I would probably feel the same way but my bad experiences have made me a stronger person and a better parent than I think I would have been had I not had to go through difficult and painful experiences. It was an unwelcomed learning experience and now I can see that the OW really did me a favour. Especially, when she calls me while she is driving around looking for him wondering where he is at and what he may be doing.

 

Good point.

[nittygritty]

Don't worry I am not hurting myself one bit... I've been in relationships most of my life... (23 years total). I'm almost 55, and now I know what I want. I want to be free, single and have as much sex as I possibly can before I get all dried up like a small raisin... LOL

 

Seriously, don't think that I have low self-esteem and not worthy of a better life... I love my life now... I've never been happier... I know this is hard to believe but it's true. I am extremely independant, in all aspects and I know I am good looking and have a great body... I'm proud of how I look.

 

I have a good, well paid job, in the gov't, I have amazing friends... a wonderful (THE most wonderful) daughter who is expecting my 'little treasure' in the fall... and that keeps me quite busy too... I am doing all the decoration for the nursery and doing all the crib linens, curtains, etc. I love that. I have many lovers... but most of all, I enjoy being alone, I never get bored and lonely... My life is 'full' and happy.

 

So I only hope I could have the life I have right this moment for many many years to come.

 

 

It is good to know that. Congratulations on the new addition to your family.

[Tomcat33]

I've heard guys say, who've cheated on their Ws, that when they actually opened their eyes and compared the OW to their W (in all ways)they had the eye opener that they must have been crazy to cheat on their W.

 

They said when they thought of it that way, it was a big eye opener.

 

The biggest eye opener to most was when they asked themselves, "if this woman is willing to cheat with me, a MM, what kind of person is she (the OW) really?"

 

Just telling my observations.

 

 

Typical, the kettle calling the kettle......

 

What type of person is the woman who accompanies a cheater? For the most part it's a human being who is prone to make mistakes, nothing more nothing less.

[Havn_a_life]

yeah, it is the pot calling the kettle black. Obviously the MMs I have heard saying this to, saw the way the OWs acted this same attitude in themselves and they "saw the light" as it were.

The difference? They, the MMs, opened their eyes and did the right thing.

Ended the A, begged the W for a second chance and changed their ways.