The OW can actually save a marriage...

[luvmy2ns]

People cheat. End of story.

 

Correction: Some people - classless people - cheat.

 

Do you then say it's just every person's nature to always go back on their promises? I know plenty of people who NEVER go back on a promise if they have any say about it. Monogomy in a committed relationship is a promise, pure and simple. Classy people keep their promises. If you want to cheat, end the relationship and allow the other person the right to move on with their eyes open.

 

END OF STORY

[NoIDidn't]

The point is that not all A's take away from family time and that there is NO way to ever no and truly believe that your partner is absolutely trustworthy and faithful.That's why its called faith. People cheat. End of story.

 

If I stay up until 4AM and have to get up and do family things at 7AM, but I am too tired to do it - how am I not taking away from family time? Its a rhetorical question mostly, I already know the answer. I am cranky when I don't get enough sleep. The most evil b.itch you will ever come across when I am sleepy or hungry.

 

 

BTW: Even if Lizzie is a whore, its her prerogative, and its the worlds oldest occupation. She is entitled to her opinion just as everyone else is entitled to theirs. Its sad that people resort to name calling, and insults because they disagree. (Not directed at you NID)

 

What really sad is that someone would even want that oldest occupation. It originated in a time when women were considered things and not people. It was the only power that a woman really had. This kind of behavior just really sets women back. And we hadn't even gotten that far.

 

Perogative, or not. Its not very wise.

[Tomcat33]

. Monogomy in a committed relationship is a promise, pure and simple. Classy people keep their promises. If you want to cheat, end the relationship and allow the other person the right to move on with their eyes open.

 

 

 

So maybe people should be harping on the a$$es of the cheaters, because if Lizzie didn't exist they'd be going to a prostitute anyway. It's clear they want sex and they are going to get it wherever it's offered.

 

Maybe you can form a mass moral protest group to stop all people who are going to engage in sex with married people? LOL

 

Who cares why Lizzie does what she does, why do these men who ""supposedly"love their families lie to them and do what they do?

 

Just a thought.

[luvmy2ns]

So maybe people should be harping on the a$$es of the cheaters, because if Lizzie didn't exist they'd be going to a prostitute anyway. It's clear they want sex and they are going to get it wherever it's offered.

 

Lizzie IS taking money and gifts for sex. Doesn't that make it prostitution? However, for some reason, she confines her activites to MM.

 

Have you seen a cheater come on here and say his or her cheating is good for their marriage? I haven't, and I doubt you will, because the notion is ridiculous.

[frygirl]

Have you seen a cheater come on here and say his or her cheating is good for their marriage? I haven't, and I doubt you will, because the notion is ridiculous.

 

I actually know people that say the husband having an affair saved their marriage. They both say that it was the turning point that forced them to open their eyes to how much their relationship had deteriorated.

 

Now I think the wife is just in denial because can't bear the thought of him leaving her and would say or agree to anything to keep him. And I think he is more than willing to play along because he knows he would get financially skewered in court if she divorced him. But if you ask them they insist it saved their marriage. I'm not them, so I really don't know. :shrugs:

[EnigmaXOXO]

(Who thinks Lizzie is an enigma)

 

I do! I do! :bunny:

 

But than again ... wouldn’t that describe people, life, love and relationships in general (???)

 

Lizzie certainly isn’t the first controversial pot-stirrer to grace the shack ... For any of the old-timers who remember Spock and Herzen (before he changed his name ).

 

You have to admit, it sure gets people talking and thinking ... and just look at all the attention these folks receive!!

 

And when it comes to “attention” Lizzie is no stranger when it comes to knowing how to get it when she wants it. Which is part of what makes her irresistible to everyone. As a matter of fact, she’s promptly and thoroughly mind-f*cked the entire lot of us into a raging riot already ... and she didn’t even require that we buy her a drink or fly her to Mexico! :laugh:

 

For me, it’s part of what makes this forum so darn interesting.

[frygirl]

Lizzie IS taking money and gifts for sex. Doesn't that make it prostitution? However, for some reason, she confines her activites to MM.

 

my boyfriend gave me a pair of earrings last weekend. he got shower sex that night out of appreciation. i guess that makes me a whore too. bummer.

 

i understand your point, but name calling isn't nice

[Tomcat33]

Have you seen a cheater come on here and say his or her cheating is good for their marriage? I haven't, and I doubt you will, because the notion is ridiculous.

 

 

Different strokes for different folks I suppose....whatever gets you through the day.

 

I read an article in Vanity Fair the other day with Angelina Jolie pre-Pitt, and she was telling the journalist about a married guy she had an affair with while she was with Billy Bob T, and she explains it in a very non-chalant matter of fact tone. Anyhow so fast forward to a few years later and not only is she with the hottest guy in the world, she stole him from his at the time W. AND it appears she has a track record of being with taken men.

 

Now if we look at what she did, she could be considered a total whore or tramp or whatever name the OW is usually called.....and then you look at her involvement with refugees around the world, the amount of time and money she has donated to make these people's lives in truely deprlorable situations, she has even taken children for her own, and yet to some she will ALWAYS be pegged as the tramp that stole another woman's husband away.

 

Let's face it I HIGHLY doubt that she has any hard time looking at herself in the mirror or even getting a good night's sleep because of her "moral misconduct". The bigger picture is the woman is remarkable in ways that MOST moral puritans will never even reach her ankles let alone be at the same level as she.

 

So she fell in love with another woman's man, IT HAPPENS, accept it. Life does go on. It's just a man it's not THE WORLD, though some women just make men THEIR ONLY WORLD and really there are much bigger things in this world we should be putting our focus on rather than focusing on hurling insults behind a computer screen to a woman who seems quite happy living her life as she chose to live it.

 

Wanna make a change for humanity an protect what matters most? Forget Lizzie, go volunteer your time at a hostpital, old folks home or a homeless shelter that is far more rewarding than wasting your time trying to reform a woman who sleeps with married men and who totally enjoys her life as it is.

[Lizzie60]

Let's face it I HIGHLY doubt that she has any hard time looking at herself in the mirror or even getting a good night's sleep because of her "moral misconduct". The bigger picture is the woman is remarkable in ways that MOST moral puritans will never even reach her ankles let alone be at the same level as she.

This is sooo true... Angelina is one of the most beautiful woman in the world..the most down-to-earth as far as I'm concerned... I love that woman.

 

BC you are not judgemental but that doesn't make you a 'sugar coater' I like that style of posting. At least, we can have a smart conversation with you. You're always right on! I respect that eventhough you don't necessarily agree with my lifestyle.

 

Keep posting. I enjoy reading your posts.

[Touche]

Maybe Angelina helps all those kids just so that she CAN look at herself in the mirror.

 

Anyway, it's great that she does all of that but I don't see how that erases her immoral ways. One thing has nothing to do with another. Besides, I don't think anyone is ALL bad. Even the worst of people have a good side.

[Lizzie60]

I'm sorry... I'm trying to edit my subject line... and I can't... I meant TomCat but wrote BobCat.. I'm tired... sorry

[Darth Vader]

Thanks HAL.. I have always posted in the OW/MM forum as someone who was a child growing up in a OW/MM relationship..

Kinda a voice for the children that people sometimes forget while the affair is happening..

It matters to the children.. trust me on that...

 

 

AC, You are not alone on that one, except, my parents stayed together, I wonder why. Anyway, the children do find out, and when they do, it's HELL!

[Herzen]

I do! I do! :bunny:

 

But than again ... wouldn’t that describe people, life, love and relationships in general (???)

 

Lizzie certainly isn’t the first controversial pot-stirrer to grace the shack ... For any of the old-timers who remember Spock and Herzen (before he changed his name ).

 

You have to admit, it sure gets people talking and thinking ... and just look at all the attention these folks receive!!

 

And when it comes to “attention” Lizzie is no stranger when it comes to knowing how to get it when she wants it. Which is part of what makes her irresistible to everyone. As a matter of fact, she’s promptly and thoroughly mind-f*cked the entire lot of us into a raging riot already ... and she didn’t even require that we buy her a drink or fly her to Mexico! :laugh:

 

For me, it’s part of what makes this forum so darn interesting.

 

 

Gads, Enigma, I hope I wasn't as relentless as Lizzie in my bad old Spock days. I'm a kinder, gentler Shacker, now. Much happier (and more boring), too.

 

Lizzie doesn't just stir the pot, anyhow. She shatters the damn thing in her efforts to create a ruckus. Comparatively, Spock was an amateur.

 

I'm still wondering about Lizzie's true motives for these ongoing provocations. Could this all be one ongoing cyber-confession and cyber-penance for her outre life style?

 

When Shackers attack Lizzie are they in some way enabling her: unburdening her conscience so to speak?

 

Only the Big Shacker in the Sky really knows, and She isn't talking.

 

Be cool, woman.

[pricillia]

Lizzie,

 

I am having a hard time putting you in the same category as a OW...

 

If you think that what you are doing is fine, then why don't you open up an professional escort service.

[Darth Vader]

I'll have what Lizzy's smokin! Must be nice to live in a fantasy world.

It's only a matter of time until she finds someone she loves, then that person will cheat on her, and hurt her, not that I'm for that happening to anyone, but as the saying goes, "What goes around, comes around!"

 

By the way, I think I've discovered the reason of the spread of AIDS!

[NoIDidn't]

Maybe Angelina helps all those kids just so that she CAN look at herself in the mirror.

 

She is certifiable. The stories those poor kids of hers will be able to tell one day.

[Tomcat33]

thanks Lizzie! yeah I don't agree with your lifestyle for me but my life is not everyone else's. Now if we were friends and I found out your were with my H then that would be totally a different story :mad:LOL but if we were friends I doubt you would do that...

 

Maybe Angelina helps all those kids just so that she CAN look at herself in the mirror.

 

Anyway, it's great that she does all of that but I don't see how that erases her immoral ways. One thing has nothing to do with another. Besides, I don't think anyone is ALL bad. Even the worst of people have a good side.

 

 

Yeah maybe she does it because she feels empty for having no morals when it comes to relationships, or maybe she just doesn't give a f@$k about why things happen the way they do when it come to rels. because she is too preocupied with trying to save the world. Maybe.....

 

Bottom line she is doing more for people in need than anyone of us is.

 

And maybe there are a lot of morally pure people in this world who just sit on their a$$es and have nothing to contribute to humanity other than passing judgement on how other's should live (this is genreal comment ok?). So if I had to choose between an immoral Angelina who reaches out to those who are in need and the parasites who are morally impecable, I think the choice FOR ME is obvious.

 

Bottom line, some people won't cheat won't stray, won't get involved with other people's "property"(I LOVE that line....according to some people marriage to another human being is like buying a lot or a home, you acquire "property" LOL) but they are horrible human beings in many other ways.

 

I guess what I am getting at is humans all have faults some are deeper than others but the magnitude of a person's faults is all relative to how much others wish to focus on said faults.

 

Lizzie may live her life in a way that doesn't agree with the majority of people but she comes across at peace with herself and can offer great advice to those in need. She has explained over and over how fullfilled her life is...I just don't see what's so terrible about her life? Ok fine it's conisdered immoral but if it works for her....

 

What's moral really?

 

Hey polititians are some of the MOST immoral people you will find yet we vote for them we let them lead our countries we let them take our lives into their own hands we TRUST them. HECK senior management at any give company tends to lack scruples, it's the way of the world...the very jeans some of you are wearing right now were made under the most deplorable conditions in a third world country and the people (or kids should I say) who made them were paid $0.05 for the hour they work to make those jeans, and we pay $100 for that same pair and never stop to think about why we pay such a mark-up when children are being exploited in other countries. the young women getting raped at their place of work by the factory managers or the young boys sent home with pulmonary diseases from the fumes ingested in the factory only to recover and return so that they can work under scorching heat no ventilation for a mere $20 a month.

 

Wanna talk about immoral? Paying a blind eye to the sacrifice others have to make so that we can have the luxuries that we do, NOW THAT IS AS IMMORAL AS IT GETS.

 

But hey as long as the hubby is not hit on by another woman the world is a rosey moral place! C'mon how hypocritical.

 

Leave Lizzie alone!! :laugh:

[Lizzie60]

Gosh I enjoy your post... You ARE a smart lady.. I tell you.

 

As far as my friends go... it's a NO-NO...always been a NO-NO.. It never even crossed my mind to have their husbands... One of them, my 'bestest' has been married for over 25 years, maybe more... I stayed over at her place one year, after I got out of the hospital (depression) her husband was there... but leaving us alone most of the time... they are more like roomate... LOL anyway... she always says that there is a room for me on the second floor...she has a house just like in the movies... then we can grow old together...

 

My other friend... she lost her husband... he died of cancer... she is now on the dating scene.. and no way I would 'sweep' their men...

 

Friendship is the most important thing in the world after my children. I treasure those friends, I love them to pieces... I would never ever compromize that friendship...

 

True friendship is a rare treasure, just like our children.

[pricillia]

Gosh I enjoy your post... You ARE a smart lady.. I tell you.

 

As far as my friends go... it's a NO-NO...always been a NO-NO.. It never even crossed my mind to have their husbands... One of them, my 'bestest' has been married for over 25 years, maybe more... I stayed over at her place one year, after I got out of the hospital (depression) her husband was there... but leaving us alone most of the time... they are more like roomate... LOL anyway... she always says that there is a room for me on the second floor...she has a house just like in the movies... then we can grow old together...

 

My other friend... she lost her husband... he died of cancer... she is now on the dating scene.. and no way I would 'sweep' their men...

 

Friendship is the most important thing in the world after my children. I treasure those friends, I love them to pieces... I would never ever compromize that friendship...

 

True friendship is a rare treasure, just like our children.

 

What about being a friend to yourself first, and not giving your body to numerous men..

[IpAncA]

some people would see this as sex therapy... LOL

 

I have different opinion on OW/OM... sorry. To each our own I guess.

 

What's good for you is not necessarily good for me and vice versa.

 

Yeah I guess.

 

And yes we all have our own opinions on the OW/OM situation. Not trying to jump up your butt or antyhing but you don't seem like the typical OW. It's rather interesting how you think cheating can saves marriages among other things.

 

Sure it's a wake-up call (I'll give you that) and yes it could in the long run keep the couple together, but that's a pretty risky thing to do. That's not a risk anyone should be willing to make because your dealing with a committed couple and their emotions when a third person enters.

[Tomcat33]

She is certifiable. The stories those poor kids of hers will be able to tell one day.

 

 

According to whom she is certifiable? Unless you know here personally I take it you are lead by the words of the same people that brought us "two headed siamese gives birth to bat-boy"

Good old tabloids, we just can't get enough of them can we? According to the tabloids Brad is calling Jennifer for phone sex behind Angelina's back and Bush declared war on Iraq because there were weapons of mass destruction.

 

Look of course she is going to be painted as the villian, the media loooves to create and tear down people and rooting for the underdog sells votes, sells copies, sells advertising...the magical chain of events that benefits from appealing to the masses is endless. And the media loves to kick those who are down to ensure they never get up again. It's what the public WANTS.

 

We can't concieve the notion that a woman like Angelina Jolie who has no scruples who has no morals who would dare take another woman's man away could possibly be blessed with a good life, with beautiful children the best looking guy in the world (according to some not my taste) and a hectic but very fullfilling life and inner peace (maybe? why not!). NOOOOOO WAY the public JUST DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR THAT.

And as soon as she has a breakdown like all people do at some point in their lives, we are going to be sitting on the sidelines cheering it on saying "see I told you so, I told you she was unhappy!"

Yes, life works in cycles, of course she will eventually be in crisis, we ALL are at one point or another.

 

And you know what? I can see a little bit of that herd mentality happening in this thread.....

 

just an observation

[Touche]

Oh please! "Herd mentality?" Wrong is wrong and most people can see this for what it is. Some can't.

[Tomcat33]

Oh please! "Herd mentality?" Wrong is wrong and most people can see this for what it is. Some can't.

 

 

The beauty of "wrong and right" is that it is subjective to each individual. Some people can see that for what it is. Some can't.

[norajane]

I've only made it halfway through this thread so far, but haven't seen anyone specifically address a couple of points about your examples of MM whose marriages you are 'helping':

 

he's head over heels in love with me... I'm not and he knows that... He's my best lover though.

 

We have spoken a lot about his marriage, I even advised him to go in counselling but she won't even discussed that issue cause she thinks nothing is wrong... she has her periods for about 3 weeks/month... so he has sex once or twice a month... She hates sex, will not give him BJ. she gags... and I'm sure she uses the 'periods' to avoid sex. She has absolutely no idea he's cheating. She calls him about 10 times a day, she's a SAHM. From her point of view, he just have to accept the fact that she has her periods 15-18 days a month.

 

So it doesn't matter how many talks they have, she gets mad and just don't want to talk about it... He got tired of nagging.

 

When we started to flirt at work.. .pm'sing... he fell in love way before we had sex. Later he told me that he is now happier at home, since his needs are fulfilled outside on a regular basis. They are 'best friends', she's a loving wife and a caring mother... He really don't want to leave but he needs sex... that's all.

 

This man is passive-aggressive cheater, or fooling you and himself. Instead of dealing with his resentment toward his wife, he has chosen to get serviced by you so that he can retain his lifestyle with his 'best friend' (to whom he lies and hides his real needs and real self, thereby creating more and more distance between them each time he cheats).

 

A man who cannot get through to his wife that he is unhappy and that it is threatening their marriage is a man who has not tried hard enough to do so. He can wake her up to the fact that he is THAT miserable. But he is afraid to confront her and tell her that the lack of sex is causing him to cheat (or consider cheating if he can't handle telling her the truth), or that he would leave their marriage because it is not workable for him long term without sex.

 

He can say he's tired of nagging, but nagging does not mean he has remotely addressed this issue with his wife in a constructive, concerted way. He's not discussing the need to improve their marriage. He's been nagging her for sex. Two different things, and not something she would see as related.

 

In addition, he is ignoring the fact that she is medically in a dangerous situation. A woman who bleeds 3 weeks a month, is a woman in danger of iron deficiencies and anemia, cysts, cancers, all kinds of things. Has he ever gone to the doctor with her? Has he ever expressed his concern for whatever condition is causing this? Or does he just nag to get sex?

 

You are implying that she is faking her period lasting that long. He lives with her - he would know if she's having her period. Face it, you don't know the truth of what is going on between them. You only know what he has told you. Perhaps he tells you this because he likes getting extra sex from you and because he is in love with you. Perhaps he would actually put his foot down and confront his wife with their marital issues if you weren't available. Perhaps he wouldn't, if he's all passive agressive about it. Perhaps a lot of things, but you are not helping the M. You are enabling him to get what he wants without doing the hard work to change his marriage.

 

 

I already posted one story about one MM... Now here's another one...

 

When I say that in most cases (about my MMs) anyway it can't be worked out...because the wife has no problem or sees no problem.

 

This other guy, I will soon dump him though (he's not that good of a lover)... anyway... he says he loves his wife... they are well-off, both have a high end position with the government. They have 2 sons that will soon enter university... anyway... this woman has gained a tremendous amount of weight... she is menopausal... and just don't want to have sex anymore or very rarely...

 

Her excuse... she feels 'ugly'... even if he told her he had no problem with her weight... but she does... she said she doesn't feel sexy, blablabla...anyway, IMO, all excuses not to have sex.

 

I have many friends, my 'bestest' who is 54 now... admitted that she hates sex...but she loves her husband. They have a wonderful life together... I know for a fact, that a lot of women, after being married for a long time, would rather have sex only once or twice a month... but that's not the way their husbands think... but they would swear that their husbands just accept that... ha-hem... yeah right... I don't think so.

 

In a way, I don't blame the husbands for going outside for sex... that doesn't mean they don't love their wife. They just seem to be comfortable (financially and emotionally) in a 'passionless' marriage... I guess... only sex is missing... everything else is fine.

 

Well, aren't you ignoring one MAJOR factor here, of which you are already aware? You yourself say he is not a great lover. What makes you think he is any better with his wife? Perhaps THAT is why she doesn't want to have sex??

 

Perhaps, if you really want to help this man, you could explain that his wife might want more sex if he actually were a better lover and did a little exploring with her to find out how to PLEASE her sexually. How to show his desire for her and compliment her and make her feel like he believes she's the hottest thing ever, and that he wants nothing more than to show her by pleasing her sexually.

 

What I'm saying here, is that you are seeing this from HIS viewpoint. Perhaps if he didn't have sex on the side, he might be forced to address this issue honestly with his wife. But again, perhaps you are dealing with another passive male who can't step up and work on his marriage by facing his own part in the difficulties.

[Touche]

The beauty of "wrong and right" is that it is subjective to each individual. Some people can see that for what it is. Some can't.

 

I think SOCIETY says it's immoral. You can disagree with it all you want. You can insult those who agree it's immoral by saying it's a herd mentality. But it still doesn't make this kind of behavior right.