Tomcat33 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I choose to think that if a person is capable of breaking up a M or some such thing, they're capable of anything bad. I don't look at how much money they have and give away. I place alot of value on honesty and goodness. And a woman like AJ is honestly doing something good for human kind. How she lives her personal life is really niether here nor there to me, if she was a serial killer I might think differently but even then my heart would go out to her for being so disturbed that she has to inflict pain on to others to feel validated. The bottom line is we are ALL capable of doing bad the question is how much good can we also do? If the good outweighs the bad that's what helps you sleep at night. nite nite Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Well, to get back to the topic... I think it's wrong to assume that an OW can help a M. It can only bring more grief and trouble to the M. In my opinion. If Lizzie wants to make herself feel better by thinking she's helping out all of the MMs she sleeping with, then I guess whatever gets her through the night. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Sleeping around, is sleeping around, I honestly have no problem if someone wants to do that, just keep it honest - and away from MM. Keep with single folks.... Men sleep with many women and they're cool studs. Women do the exact same thing, they're sluts. TOTAL DOUBLE STANDARD. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 This whole discussion about AJ had made me realize something. There are people in this world who think they are entitled to do whatever they please. I think that AJ felt that she wanted Brad, so she should have him and vice versa. I think Lizzie thinks it's just fine to do what she wants because that is what she chooses. Who are we or anyone else to tell her anything different? Then there are people who think about how their actions will effect others. I call those my friends. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Sleeping around, is sleeping around, I honestly have no problem if someone wants to do that, just keep it honest - and away from MM. Keep with single folks.... Men sleep with many women and they're cool studs. Women do the exact same thing, they're sluts. TOTAL DOUBLE STANDARD. Exactly! If you're gonna do it, do it with someone single. There's plenty of single people to sleep around with. Why does it have to be M? Call me an oddball, but I don't get the whole MM thing. MMs are M to another woman. Why do I need to go in that direction? It's a waste of time. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 This whole discussion about AJ had made me realize something. There are people in this world who think they are entitled to do whatever they please. I think that AJ felt that she wanted Brad, so she should have him and vice versa. I think Lizzie thinks it's just fine to do what she wants because that is what she chooses. Who are we or anyone else to tell her anything different? Then there are people who think about how their actions will effect others. I call those my friends. Now, this person is my hero(or heroine). bravo! bravo! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Sleeping around, is sleeping around, I honestly have no problem if someone wants to do that, just keep it honest - and away from MM. Keep with single folks.... Men sleep with many women and they're cool studs. Women do the exact same thing, they're sluts. TOTAL DOUBLE STANDARD. but for someone who doesn't believe in marriage for one bit... there's no difference if the guy is single or married... I will never get married... I just don't believe in 'vows' I think it's a load of crap...most people don't even respect them... so it proves that they're not really useful. I am also not a religious person... and I don't believe in monogamy on a long term basis... Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 but for someone who doesn't believe in marriage for one bit... there's no difference if the guy is single or married... I will never get married... I just don't believe in 'vows' I think it's a load of crap...most people don't even respect them... so it proves that they're not really useful. I am also not a religious person... and I don't believe in monogamy on a long term basis... Ya think? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Now, this person is my hero(or heroine). bravo! bravo! Thanks! I'm just another BW who has made it to the other side of misery and my marriage is stronger than ever. Link to post Share on other sites
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Lizzie made a valid point: an affair is often a blessing for the marriage in disguise. I truly believe that when an affair happens, the marriage has long been dead to one or both spouses, but who still refuse to acknowledge the state of the deterioration. Instead of being defensive, perhaps we can open our minds and explore some truths in this irony. Finding out that your spouse has been cheating on you is tramatic, to say the least. But, when you dig deeper into the meaning of the affair - a choice by the WS to deal with problems in the marriage - then perhaps, you can ask these questions, "would our marriage have lasted as long as it did if he did not carry on an affair? Where would my spouse be if he weren't with his OW?" I know that I may be a bit blunt here. But don't get me wrong; I have no intention to put down the BSs or blame them for the demise of their marriage. What I am trying to say is that the affair is more often than not, just the tip of the ice berg of problems within a marriage. Being here long enough, I've noticed that there are two types of people on LS when it comes to matters of marriage and affairs. There are those who believe that affairs are wrong no matter what, and that a marriage is the holy grail. Then there are those people, myself included, who view an affair as no more than another offense to the marriage vows. Marriage is sacred when ALL the vows are kept - not just the no cheating part. When the wife denies her husband sex, she's not keeping her marriage vows. (Please, I am not saying that is true for the BSs here.) When he doesn't help out with the children, then he is also breaking his marriage vows. Many of you will argue that divorcing your spouse would be more ethical than cheating on him or her. I disagree. Would you advice a friend to divorce her spouse if she complains that her husband never helps out at home? No, you wouldn't. An affair is not for everyone. But it is not always the worst thing that can happen to a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Yes, you may not believe in marriage, but how it is that you respect your friends marriages, their husbands and your daughters marriage, and her husband, but you can't respect a woman, a stranger to you, marriage. See, that is why this makes no sense. I get that you don't like marriage, you'll never marry again, that's fine. It's just really sh.itty to screw MM KNOWINGLY and not care at all. Screw single guys, geez, there are TONS of them out there just looking for casual sex, no strings attached. Divorcee's, widow's, whatever... Either way, your thread and everything everybody is saying is going in circles. Aren't you getting sick and tired of talking about it? Defending yourself, explaining yourself??? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 but for someone who doesn't believe in marriage for one bit... there's no difference if the guy is single or married... I will never get married... I just don't believe in 'vows' I think it's a load of crap...most people don't even respect them... so it proves that they're not really useful. I am also not a religious person... and I don't believe in monogamy on a long term basis... You mat not believe in marriage for yourself, but can't you at least respect people who do? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Exactly! If you're gonna do it, do it with someone single. There's plenty of single people to sleep around with. Why does it have to be M? . Because unfortunately and this is the sad truth MM are the ones who are willing to pay for it, moreso than single guys. A single guy can get free sex but he can also deal with the consecuences if the woman becomes interested in more, a married guy has too much at stake to risk losing, paying for it offers him security that there will not be any lines crossed to jeopardize what he has at stake. If you look at it for what it is....the harsh reality is the types of men who pay for extramarital sex are more sefish than any type of person who engages in extramarital affairs. Not to justify what other cheaters do but in other cases it just happens and you can move on from it if both paries chooe to, the types of men that Lizzie seems to deal with are the type the seek it out and always will. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Yes, you may not believe in marriage, but how it is that you respect your friends marriages, their husbands and your daughters marriage, and her husband, but you can't respect a woman, a stranger to you, marriage. See, that is why this makes no sense. I get that you don't like marriage, you'll never marry again, that's fine. It's just really sh.itty to screw MM KNOWINGLY and not care at all. Screw single guys, geez, there are TONS of them out there just looking for casual sex, no strings attached. Divorcee's, widow's, whatever... Either way, your thread and everything everybody is saying is going in circles. Aren't you getting sick and tired of talking about it? Defending yourself, explaining yourself??? Sorry WWIU, I posted at the same time as you were posting. Link to post Share on other sites
underpants Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I find it (personally) sad. The sage advice from an aging hooker. Nothing more nor less. I guess you tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to justify your actions...even when you know it causes damage and hurt....even if never discovered. You are no hero. Just milking what you have until the utters literally run dry. Then where will you be? I guess in the end we are all a product of our choices. We are on very different paths. Good luck with your choices, but somehow I don't think you need any regards from me. Unders Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 You mat not believe in marriage for yourself, but can't you at least respect people who do? I've often pondered this myself. An OW thinks that if the MM doesn't respect his own M, why should she? The W in the M is not worth thinking about. OW didn't make vows to her, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 You mat not believe in marriage for yourself, but can't you at least respect people who do? And why can't you respect someone who doesn't believe in marriage? What's goes for one goes for everyone... right? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 But it is not always the worst thing that can happen to a marriage. Tell that to the children. Tell that to 9 out of 10 BS's. Sorry, that just doesn't wash. Bottomline, if a marriage is dying, or getting boring, stale, whatever, there ARE HEALTHIER CHOICES AKA CHOOSING NOT TO CHEAT! Like, going to therapy, marriage counselling, sex therapy for fun to reconnect, porn, DISCUSSING an open marriage or having a 3-some. But, when ONE spouse takes it upon themsevles to SELFISHLY go cheat, in hopes that the marriage will get better, is just a fool! Ofcourse for the cheating spouse, things are good in their minds, the marriage and the sex is better cuz THEY ARE GETTING fantasy fun on the side, having their cake and eating it too! How is that good for the betrayed spouse? Sure, maybe in the long run with LOADS of marriage counselling, years of learning how to trust and have faith in the cheating spouse, the marriage could be 'better' in the sense the communcation is there now more than before - BUt, wouldn't it just be less painful and easier on EVERYONE if couples just talked about it from square one, instead of choosing to cheat and hope things will get better? I know, in a perfect world................... Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 [quote=KnowHowLoveFeels;1230047 An affair is not for everyone. But it is not always the worst thing that can happen to a marriage. Actually it is the worst thing that can happen to a marriage. It destroys trust and that can take years to repair. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Lizzie made a valid point: an affair is often a blessing for the marriage in disguise. I truly believe that when an affair happens, the marriage has long been dead to one or both spouses, but who still refuse to acknowledge the state of the deterioration. Instead of being defensive, perhaps we can open our minds and explore some truths in this irony. Finding out that your spouse has been cheating on you is tramatic, to say the least. But, when you dig deeper into the meaning of the affair - a choice by the WS to deal with problems in the marriage - then perhaps, you can ask these questions, "would our marriage have lasted as long as it did if he did not carry on an affair? Where would my spouse be if he weren't with his OW?" I know that I may be a bit blunt here. But don't get me wrong; I have no intention to put down the BSs or blame them for the demise of their marriage. What I am trying to say is that the affair is more often than not, just the tip of the ice berg of problems within a marriage. Being here long enough, I've noticed that there are two types of people on LS when it comes to matters of marriage and affairs. There are those who believe that affairs are wrong no matter what, and that a marriage is the holy grail. Then there are those people, myself included, who view an affair as no more than another offense to the marriage vows. Marriage is sacred when ALL the vows are kept - not just the no cheating part. When the wife denies her husband sex, she's not keeping her marriage vows. (Please, I am not saying that is true for the BSs here.) When he doesn't help out with the children, then he is also breaking his marriage vows. Many of you will argue that divorcing your spouse would be more ethical than cheating on him or her. I disagree. Would you advice a friend to divorce her spouse if she complains that her husband never helps out at home? No, you wouldn't. An affair is not for everyone. But it is not always the worst thing that can happen to a marriage. Excellent points KHLF, I've often said that vows are broken in many other ways before the A even takes place, but we place the most weight on an A because it is the one thing that seems to hit the ego with the most force. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I find it (personally) sad. The sage advice from an aging hooker. Nothing more nor less. I guess you tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to justify your actions...even when you know it causes damage and hurt....even if never discovered. You are no hero. Just milking what you have until the utters literally run dry. Then where will you be? I guess in the end we are all a product of our choices. We are on very different paths. Good luck with your choices, but somehow I don't think you need any regards from me. Unders OUCH! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Yes, you may not believe in marriage, but how it is that you respect your friends marriages, their husbands and your daughters marriage, and her husband, but you can't respect a woman, a stranger to you, marriage. See, that is why this makes no sense. I get that you don't like marriage, you'll never marry again, that's fine. It's just really sh.itty to screw MM KNOWINGLY and not care at all. Screw single guys, geez, there are TONS of them out there just looking for casual sex, no strings attached. Divorcee's, widow's, whatever... Either way, your thread and everything everybody is saying is going in circles. Aren't you getting sick and tired of talking about it? Defending yourself, explaining yourself??? 1) my daughter is not married...she also doesn't believe in marriage. 2) I prefer MM and I have mentionned why in previous posts... but I also have single friends. 3) I can return the question: aren't you getting sick and tired of continually asking me the same questions over and over or attacking me? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 And why can't you respect someone who doesn't believe in marriage? What's goes for one goes for everyone... right? I have never said that you should not be able to do whatever you want. I have always said that it's your choice on how you live your life. How is that not respect? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Tell that to the children. ............. Children see a lot more things day to day between two parents even before an A takes place, sometimes the A is just the straw the breaks the camel's back, but as far as what the children feel and absorb it can happen routinely. And the harm is done for good. OF course an A is not the answer, but sometimes it is the tumor to the cancer. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 1) my daughter is not married...she also doesn't believe in marriage. quote] Such a great thing to be proud of and pass on to one's child. Link to post Share on other sites
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