MarinaAquamarina Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Lizzy...you say you don't love the MM you get involved with. Well, that's lucky so far. But what if you do? You can't help falling in love with someone. And if you did fall for someone, would you be strong and moral enough to stop the relationship with him before it got complicated and ended up ruining the marriage, rather than 'saving' it, as you think you are currently doing? It's a bloody risky business. Anyway, I don't know how you can live with yourself, to be honest. Cheating is despicable! EDIT: strong and MORAL enough? I don't know what I was thinking using the word moral in this thread... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 All it is really is sex... nothing more and they know that right from the start. But if it's "Just" sex, why not just find a single unattached man to have 'just sex' with, no strings attached! Why be part of a MM's cheating ways and deliberatly be part of hurting his spouse? I know you don't believe in marriage, or committment, but still, what if you UNknowingly slept with a friends husband that you hadn't met yet, or a relative's new boyfriend? Never say never, stranger things have happened. Guess I just honestly don't see how being selfish and hurting your spouse can make a marriage better. All is does is ruin ANY real faith and trust, and breaks vows that one promised during their marriage ceremony. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I'ld like to hear from one BS who shares the opinion that her/his WS infidelity improved the M. I would like to hear from one MP how infidelity improved his/her M. And we are talking about the M here, not one person's feelings but the R between the two M people? Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I would think that there are marriages out there that have benefited by the OUTING of the affair and not the affair itself.. Once outed some couples pull together and go into therapy and fix the marriage coming out much stronger and better than before the affair I cannot think that there is one marriage that was made better by the affair itself.. That is nuts to think that.. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 It's got to be self serving. I think I got it? MW/MM cheats on their spouse, never to tell. They go have their fun and then later when affair ends, MM/MW are free to come home and focus ALL that energy again, sexual and emotional back into spouse without suffering any type of consquence. Like, they got away with it, guilt free, and now the sex life is swinging again and good. I doubt very much ANY BS feels that an affair has helped. Sure, maybe made them into a stronger person, but they had to go through unnecessary pain and heartache, learn how to trust again. Why would someone want to go through ALL that to fix their marriage, make sex more exciting? Try communicating. Try going to sex therapy, or going to a fun class together - PROPER ways of giving head (yes, they DO classes on this!), how to be like Sting and last for hours...GO on dates, makeout like teens and TOGETHER a husband and wife can re-connect and make sex amazing and electric again WITHOUT cheating on eachother. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 maybe he is... or he will... and if she doesn't know about it, how can she be hurt? This is the naive part - and I do hear it on the OW/OM boards with some frequency. It's a justification though. It simply isn't true - whether or not the BS knows that actual cheating is occurring, s/he knows that SOMETHING is wrong. The marriage DOES suffer. There is simply no way that focusing on a third party, expending emotional energy to keep a third person happy rather than addressing the actual problems of the marriage and trying to build strength and trust and love and sexual attraction between the two people involved, is ever going to help the marriage. Not ever. Not once. Nohow. It's just a justification. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Okay, okay, I have a confession to make. I am so glad the affair happened so that it gave me a better insight into the selfish baby that he is. I can't imagine continuing a relationship like that, nevermind having a family with him. I need a grown man and a partner. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I was going to add this to my earlier post, but TBF is too quick for me. I do think that people sometimes need a wakeup call, and knowing that one partner is tempted to stray – for a variety of reasons, perhaps – can wake up both partners to the true state of the marriage, and give it the kick in the rear it needs. That has value. But the value comes from discussing the issues with each other, not sneaking around behind each others' backs. And that value is unrelated to an actual affair - it can and should happen before anybody actually strays. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 "Btw honey, to think all along I thought the smell was from the fertilizer we used"... Sorry but I'm having difficulty taking this thread seriously. My apologies to the OP. The part that I do love about this thread is that it makes me realize how sooo over it I am. Link to post Share on other sites
raincloud Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 There is simply no way that focusing on a third party, expending emotional energy to keep a third person happy rather than addressing the actual problems of the marriage and trying to build strength and trust and love and sexual attraction between the two people involved, is ever going to help the marriage. Not ever. Not once. Nohow. It's just a justification. Ditto. My relationship with my husband will never be the same...it will forever be changed because of the affair he chose to begin. Trying to juggle two women has wrecked him....and me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 I kinda giggled a little when I read this. It’s obvious the “rejuvenated” theory came from the one who cheated (a.k.a sex/relationship addict) who was stretching for some positive spin in order to justify their behavior to you, or more likely themselves. Usually agree with you on most things, Lizzie. But my opinion, experience and observations on this particular subject differs. Cheating doesn’t “rejuvenate” a boring marriage ... it’s the “fix” that rejuvenates the bored individual just enough to keep them stuck in their emotionally dysfunctional spin cycle. 'fixable'... OK, here's one of my MM, a manager I work with (not in the same building though), this guy has no idea I am seeing other guys... anyways, he's head over heels in love with me... I'm not and he knows that... He's my best lover though. I left him once because I felt he was too attached. He was sooo devastated I got scared he would leave his family (I didn't want him to do that)... he would call and leave me a message, he was just driving around and crying. We have spoken a lot about his marriage, I even advised him to go in counselling but she won't even discussed that issue cause she thinks nothing is wrong... she has her periods for about 3 weeks/month... so he has sex once or twice a month... She hates sex, will not give him BJ. she gags... and I'm sure she uses the 'periods' to avoid sex. She has absolutely no idea he's cheating. She calls him about 10 times a day, she's a SAHM. From her point of view, he just have to accept the fact that she has her periods 15-18 days a month. So it doesn't matter how many talks they have, she gets mad and just don't want to talk about it... He got tired of nagging. When we started to flirt at work.. .pm'sing... he fell in love way before we had sex. Later he told me that he is now happier at home, since his needs are fulfilled outside on a regular basis. They are 'best friends', she's a loving wife and a caring mother... He really don't want to leave but he needs sex... that's all. He also knows he can trust me. I know she will never find out because we see each other during the day. I really don't think it's a big deal.. no one is hurt... everyone is happy. Link to post Share on other sites
nittygritty Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I associate cheating with having a weak ego. I couldn't regain trust or respect once I knew for certain of my ex's infidelity. Prior to that I knew that something was wrong but couldn't quite put my finger on what it was, so I started looking for signs of trouble. It was a very painful discovery but not totally shocking. IMO Being single is sooo much better than being in a bad relationship or marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Later he told me that he is now happier at home, since his needs are fulfilled outside on a regular basis. I see now, you are talking about one person's happiness, not about strenghtening the marriage because the marriage has not been helped. Periods of 3 weeks a month are not uncommon in women facing menopause and they actually are miserable and come with alot of hormonal issues but his affair makes her physical condition bearable to HIM! Got it. I thought you were talking about a MARRAIGE, not one persons perception of the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 The cure is worse than the disease Lizzy. Wouldn't it be better if the husband just dealt with his bad marriage instead of making it worse ? By having an affair the issues are amplified not reduced.. the hurt of infidelity hasn't happened until the cheating begins. I already posted one story about one MM... Now here's another one... When I say that in most cases (about my MMs) anyway it can't be worked out...because the wife has no problem or sees no problem. This other guy, I will soon dump him though (he's not that good of a lover)... anyway... he says he loves his wife... they are well-off, both have a high end position with the government. They have 2 sons that will soon enter university... anyway... this woman has gained a tremendous amount of weight... she is menopausal... and just don't want to have sex anymore or very rarely... Her excuse... she feels 'ugly'... even if he told her he had no problem with her weight... but she does... she said she doesn't feel sexy, blablabla...anyway, IMO, all excuses not to have sex. I have many friends, my 'bestest' who is 54 now... admitted that she hates sex...but she loves her husband. They have a wonderful life together... I know for a fact, that a lot of women, after being married for a long time, would rather have sex only once or twice a month... but that's not the way their husbands think... but they would swear that their husbands just accept that... ha-hem... yeah right... I don't think so. In a way, I don't blame the husbands for going outside for sex... that doesn't mean they don't love their wife. They just seem to be comfortable (financially and emotionally) in a 'passionless' marriage... I guess... only sex is missing... everything else is fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 I associate cheating with having a weak ego. I couldn't regain trust or respect once I knew for certain of my ex's infidelity. Prior to that I knew that something was wrong but couldn't quite put my finger on what it was, so I started looking for signs of trouble. It was a very painful discovery but not totally shocking. IMO Being single is sooo much better than being in a bad relationship or marriage. IMO Being single is sooo much better than being in a bad relationship or marriage This is so true, but my point is that most of the time the wife has absolutely no clue her husband is cheating... none at all.... She's happy in her 'sexless-passionless' marriage. The worst thing is when the affair gets emotional... then trouble can start... that's when the wife can see signs. IMO Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Later he told me that he is now happier at home, since his needs are fulfilled outside on a regular basis. I see now, you are talking about one person's happiness, not about strenghtening the marriage because the marriage has not been helped. Periods of 3 weeks a month are not uncommon in women facing menopause and they actually are miserable and come with alot of hormonal issues but his affair makes her physical condition bearable to HIM! Got it. I thought you were talking about a MARRAIGE, not one persons perception of the marriage. In this case, this is the only thing that is going wrong in his marriage... everything else is great. I know this is not uncommon for a woman, I've been there...but I saw a doctor and got an operation... simple... She even refuses to go to the doctor... I guess she rather have 3 week-period every month and not be bothered with sex... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Honestly lizzie, everything is so superficial and all about sex with you. I don't think you know or even begin to understand what a real, solid, committed relationship is about, nevermind marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 'fixable'... OK, here's one of my MM, a manager I work with (not in the same building though), this guy has no idea I am seeing other guys... anyways, he's head over heels in love with me... I'm not and he knows that... He's my best lover though. I left him once because I felt he was too attached. He was sooo devastated I got scared he would leave his family (I didn't want him to do that)... he would call and leave me a message, he was just driving around and crying. So you know this guy is inlove with you, but will take whatever you give you him because he's weak and wants it....How could you knowingly do this to someone? You say noone is getting hurt, well he IS getting hurt, by choice ofcourse, but he IS hurting his wife too, he is loving you while still married to his wife. His focus, his energy is on YOU not his wife. Come on Lizzie. I keep saying if you're so proud of your lifestyle, then TELL ALL your family, friends what your life is about. BE PROUD of it like you are on here. Yeah, I know your response already, it's noone's business but your own and yes, your daughter knows how you feel about marriage and so does your closest friends...I guess if you didn't care what anybody thought of you WOULDN'T hide your lifestyle... Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Actually she considers it FIXING a marriage as long as the BS doesn't find out. According to another thread, if the BS finds out (that another woman was fixing her marraige) and doesn't leave or suffers because of it then she has no empathy for that BS..... OK, maybe I'm really really slow... please someone explain how one can hold both of these ideas. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Lizzy, Would give the advice to your own daughter that instead of fixing the marriage ( if her marriage was in trouble ) that she should cheat on her husband ? Would you give the advice for her to break the very vows she took when she married him ? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Actually she considers it FIXING a marriage as long as the BS doesn't find out. According to another thread, if the BS finds out (that another woman was fixing her marraige) and doesn't leave or suffers because of it then she has no empathy for that BS..... OK, maybe I'm really really slow... please someone explain how one can hold both of these ideas. OK here's my point of view... If the wife (from the 2 stories I posted) are happy, they don't ask questions... they have no clue, why would they ask questions... everything is fine... they don't want sex... their husbands (who are having sex on the side) won't bother them... leave them alone, doesn't talk about it anymore... they have their good, comfortable life, with their children and their family and friends... I see nothing wrong... no one is hurting anyone... But, on the other hand if the MM is a serial cheate, has no respect for his wife.. and she finds out.. and she accepts to be hurt and to allow him to walk all over her because she can't face to loose him...then that a different story. I see a huge difference... Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 So the difference is whether the wife knows, right? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 These women have real emotional and physical problems and this is how their H's help them. By helping themselves. And THEN on top of all of that, they tell Lizzie that she's HELPING THEM, but Lizzie takes it as she is helping the M. Not helping the M, but definitely helping the MM. How depressing that people can be so self-centered. Have these men no problem solving abilities? Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 has no respect for his wife.. A cheater almost by definition has no respect for his wife and children as well as the OW that he is seeing.. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheba Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Isn't saying that cheating if the wife doesn't know is causing no harm akin to saying driving drunk is ok as long as you don't get into an accident? Link to post Share on other sites
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