The OW can actually save a marriage...

[Nemo]

One person cannot possibly satisfy all of another person's needs, all the time, throughout their entire lifetime. And it's unrealistic and UNFAIR to both parties to expect that.

Very true. Many people on this thread seem to be forgetting that.

[Lizzie60]

OW help marriages the same way that painkillers help cancer. It is no more than treating a symptom, instead of curing the illness. If you aren't in pain, you forget you are ill, right? Unfortunately, if you don't treat the actual cancer you are still going to die. Same with the OW and marriage. If you are out happily banging a side item, you tend to more easily overlook the greater problems in your marriage and don't work to fix them.

 

So, can it be said that an OW helps the marriage? Only if it can be said that a bandaid helps a gaping, festering, infected wound.

 

with how you put it...but the problem is never solved because the W doesn't see it as a problem... they think that after numerous discussions...and their explanation as to why they don't have sex as often...blablabla... the husband will 'understand' and will stop begging... which is exactly what happens... The H eventually stops 'asking' for sex... go outside to get it... then the W thinks he finally came to his 'sense' and understand that she's tired...her period are lasting 3 weeks... her hormones are raging... she's too fat, she has confidence issues, blablabla... and they're happy ever after....

 

This is the typical 'marriage' (the ones I see).

[Lizzie60]

sometimes when i read the personal ads in the local paper im shocked at how many 'married men' advertise..

 

Do u like..answer them all Lizzie?

 

I never used the local newspapers. I used the Internet and the phone chat lines... or in person.

 

Wandering MMs are everywhere.

[Lizzie60]

My point was, I don't agree with Lizzie's argument - but not for the same reasons others have cited.

 

I just know that A's happen, often. And I'm trying to understand why it happens, from all angles. I'm not convinced that it always (or even often) happens because there's something "wrong" in the marriage.

 

I think we put too much pressure on, and apply too many expectations to, the institution of marriage. One person cannot possibly satisfy all of another person's needs, all the time, throughout their entire lifetime. And it's unrealistic and UNFAIR to both parties to expect that.

 

But I'm not going to address whether it's justified to deceive your SO and go outside the M to get your needs met. It's not my call. The whole thing just makes me so sad. There's so much pain involved, on all sides - and I think it's a direct result of all the expectations we put on marriage.

 

It's not always because there is a problem.. you got that right... I have met MMs who were totally happy in their marriage... sex was great, etc. but they just want more and with a new partner on the side.

 

I totally agree with this... it is just 'impossible'.

 

One person cannot possibly satisfy all of another person's needs, all the time, throughout their entire lifetime. And it's unrealistic and UNFAIR to both parties to expect that.

[woe_is_me]

I never used the local newspapers. I used the Internet and the phone chat lines... or in person.

 

Wandering MMs are everywhere.

 

 

They're wherever you put yourself in the firing line i guess Lizzie

[lindya]

But it seems like that from as soon as the young boy starts to experience with sex... I guess we have to accept that men are MORE sexual than women all their life.

 

Would you see yourself as the exception to that rule, Lizzie?

 

I'm confused that you're giving out a "we should accept that men are more sexual" message to other women (by which I mean women who aren't you, rather than women who are involved in an affair) - when you don't buy into that message personally.

 

There's a sense, in these posts, of your self esteem depending quite heavily on viewing yourself as a woman who is more in touch with her sexuality than the average or "typical" woman - and that perhaps having affairs with men who view their wives as rather unsexual beings helps to reinforce that self-image.

 

You mentioned earlier that you can't see why a man would lie to you about his wife not wanting sex more than once a month. I have no way of knowing whether they're lying to you - but it isn't difficult to identify possible motives in such situations. People like and approve of us when we tell them things that stoke up their self-image. If a guy is approving of you for being sexually charged and uninhibited in comparison with his wife, and if you're approving of him for being able to enjoy sex in a way that his wife allegedly doesn't, then there's quite a bit of that stoking up going on. Who wouldn't prefer to see themselves as an exciting thing between the sack rather than a sexually dead home-maker? I don't know how accurate such comparisons are, though. People tend to be too complex to fit neatly into either stereotype....and that goes for wives as much as for anyone else.

[Lizzie60]

Would you see yourself as the exception to that rule, Lizzie?

 

I'm confused that you're giving out a "we should accept that men are more sexual" message to other women (by which I mean women who aren't you, rather than women who are involved in an affair) - when you don't buy into that message personally.

 

There's a sense, in these posts, of your self esteem depending quite heavily on viewing yourself as a woman who is more in touch with her sexuality than the average or "typical" woman - and that perhaps having affairs with men who view their wives as rather unsexual beings helps to reinforce that self-image.

 

You mentioned earlier that you can't see why a man would lie to you about his wife not wanting sex more than once a month. I have no way of knowing whether they're lying to you - but it isn't difficult to identify possible motives in such situations. People like and approve of us when we tell them things that stoke up their self-image. If a guy is approving of you for being sexually charged and uninhibited in comparison with his wife, and if you're approving of him for being able to enjoy sex in a way that his wife apparently doesn't, then there's quite a bit of that stoking up going on.

 

Would you see yourself as the exception to that rule, Lizzie?

 

No...not when I was with my first H... I didn't want sex with him... I had no more 'passion'... I was 18 years with him.. so I can't see how a couple can maintain the passion...really I can't.

 

Now yes I am probably the exception to the rule... but I am single... I am probably the exception in being sooo sexual... most wowen my age will say that sex is not their priority anymore... I am menopausal...just like all women my age...but it did the opposite... I have a higher sex drive that I ever had... why ...I have no clue. I probably think about sex just as much as a 'typical' man on a daily basis...LOL Maybe my 'testosterone' reached a record high... I don't know.. LOL

 

It's a fact that male are more sexual than female... and I think they are all their life...

[Nemo]

I guess we're talking about an imbalance in supply. The collective manhood requires more servicing than the collective womanhood can put out. Lizzie is doing her bit to pull her weight, but the more desirable men are always going to be the first in line for extra helpings.

[lindya]

Would you see yourself as the exception to that rule, Lizzie?

 

No...not when I was with my first H... I didn't want sex with him... I had no more 'passion'... I was 18 years with him.. so I can't see how a couple can maintain the passion...really I can't.

 

Because that was your experience of marriage?

 

Now yes I am probably the exception to the rule... but I am single... I am probably the exception in being sooo sexual... most wowen my age will say that sex is not their priority anymore... I am menopausal...just like all women my age...but it did the opposite... I have a higher sex drive that I ever had... why ...I have no clue. I probably think about sex just as much as a 'typical' man on a daily basis...LOL Maybe my 'testosterone' reached a record high... I don't know.. LOL

 

It's a fact that male are more sexual than female... and I think they are all their life...

 

I've no doubt a lot of men would want to agree with you on that - but would they agree because it's truthful or because it's flattering to them?

 

This is bringing to mind a conversation I had with a group of women I worked with a while ago. It was a very diverse team (in terms of age, nationality and religion) which gave rise to some very interesting discussions - often at the expense of work, it has to be said.

 

When it came to the topic of sex, everyone had an opinion and an enthusiasm - regardless of their age, outlook and religious beliefs. The oldest women on the team (in her sixties) still had a very evidently saucy attitude to it all - and that's certainly not uncommon amongst women in that age bracket who I've spoken to.

 

When you want to gauge a person's level of interest and enjoyment in sex, it's useful to talk to that person directly....rather than rely on the assumptions of others who may have reasons for preferring not to view them in a very sexual light.

[Lizzie60]

Because that was your experience of marriage?

 

 

 

I've no doubt a lot of men would want to agree with you on that - but would they agree because it's truthful or because it's flattering to them?

 

This is bringing to mind a conversation I had with a group of women I worked with a while ago. It was a very diverse team (in terms of age, nationality and religion) which gave rise to some very interesting discussions - often at the expense of work, it has to be said.

 

When it came to the topic of sex, everyone had an opinion and an enthusiasm - regardless of their age, outlook and religious beliefs. The oldest women on the team (in her sixties) still had a very evidently saucy attitude to it all - and that's certainly not uncommon amongst women in that age bracket who I've spoken to.

 

When you want to gauge a person's level of interest and enjoyment in sex, it's useful to talk to that person directly....rather than rely on the assumptions of others who may have reasons for preferring not to view them in a very sexual light.

 

I've no doubt a lot of men would want to agree with you on that - but would they agree because it's truthful or because it's flattering to them?

 

I'm sure yes.. but not because it's flattering to their ego...because that's a fact.

 

Men are more sexual creatures... young male teens sometimes masterbate several times a day while females the same age don't (not as much anyway).

 

Rapers are men... men do pay for sex (prostitution is the oldest profession in the world)... there are more men cheaters than women's.

 

I used the term H for my first ex...but it was common-law.. it's easier to use H...

 

The oldest women on the team (in her sixties) still had a very evidently saucy attitude to it all.

 

I wonder if this woman was single or married? I am not saying that it's impossible for a 60 yr old woman who have been married 40 yrs with the same man but it's very 'rare'.... If she's single, then it's more 'possible'... because variety is 'energizing'...LOL

[OpenBook]

It's a fact that male are more sexual than female... and I think they are all their life...

 

I don't agree, Lizzie. I think most women are JUST as sexual as men are. They are just better at multi-tasking at different stages of their lives. And they are better able to handle "pushing it down" the priority list, depending on what else is going on in their lives - kids, homemaking, working outside the home, taking care of their H's, etc.etc.etc. We're better at "burying" it than men are. But it doesn't make us any less sexual at all, IMO.

 

If a MW takes a lover outside her M, I bet she is just as much of a hound-dog in bed as a MM is with his OW. It's the newness and mysteriousness of it all, the very nature of sex. We're just as capable of rising to the occasion as men are. If you'll excuse the pun.

[OpenBook]

I guess we're talking about an imbalance in supply. The collective manhood requires more servicing than the collective womanhood can put out. Lizzie is doing her bit to pull her weight, but the more desirable men are always going to be the first in line for extra helpings.

 

I beg to differ about the "more desirable men" part, Nemo. One of the ugliest guys I've ever dated was also the best lover I've ever had.

 

Don't discount your "less desirable" brethren, my man ... they could probably show you a thing or twelve about how to please a woman.

[Lizzie60]

I don't agree, Lizzie. I think most women are JUST as sexual as men are. They are just better at multi-tasking at different stages of their lives. And they are better able to handle "pushing it down" the priority list, depending on what else is going on in their lives - kids, homemaking, working outside the home, taking care of their H's, etc.etc.etc. We're better at "burying" it than men are. But it doesn't make us any less sexual at all, IMO.

 

If a MW takes a lover outside her M, I bet she is just as much of a hound-dog in bed as a MM is with his OW. It's the newness and mysteriousness of it all, the very nature of sex. We're just as capable of rising to the occasion as men are. If you'll excuse the pun.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one... There are numerous books and literature that say just that male are more sexual creatures than female, even in the animal world.

 

I agree though when you say: (for female)

 

It's the newness and mysteriousness of it all, the very nature of sex.

 

But for male the newness and mysteriousness has nothing to do with their 'sexual appetite'... they would probably be faithful (or more prone to) if their wife was just as 'sexual' as they are.

[Lizzie60]

I beg to differ about the "more desirable men" part, Nemo. One of the ugliest guys I've ever dated was also the best lover I've ever had.

 

Don't discount your "less desirable" brethren, my man ... they could probably show you a thing or twelve about how to please a woman.

 

I've had extraordinary good-looking hunks in their 20s... and compare to a 30 something 'plain Joe' most of the time, the plain Joe is a much better lover.... In my experience the best are the late 30s, early 40s... and married...

 

Married guys are much better lovers, IME (almost based on MY experience, than single guys...

[OpenBook]

But for male the newness and mysteriousness has nothing to do with their 'sexual appetite'... they would probably be faithful (or more prone to) if their wife was just as 'sexual' as they are.

 

We may just be calling the same thing different names. When you say 'sexual' it sounds like "INTERESTED in sex." When I say 'sexual' I mean "CAPABLE of sex." Potato, Potahto.

 

I do agree that MM would probably be more faithful if their W's were more INTERESTED in sex, and more enthusiastic participants in it. I also think the same goes for women, though. Maybe W's aren't as interested in it anymore because their husbands aren't enthusiastic participants either - they feel like they've already "got" the woman (their wives), so they don't have to try as hard.

 

But I'm fascinated by what you said about the newness and mysteriousness not having anything to do with a male's sexual appetite. I always thought they were more prone to roam BECAUSE they were seeking out the new and mysterious. Am I wrong?

[luvmy2ns]

Maybe if people put the same effort into their marriages as they did an affair the romance could be revived.

 

You rock, Woggle!

 

It just kills me, all this talk about how these men are this and these men are that and "this is what goes on in their marriage." These are men who are sneaking around behind the back of the person who should be the one to be able to trust them the most in all the world. To assume they are telling the truth to the gal who is letting them f her on the side is just a howl!!! So naive for someone who claims to be so worldly.

 

And men are more sexual? OMG! Stereotyping went out a LOOONG time ago! I was always more sexual than my ex. Fortunately, my boyfriend and I are equals in that regard. We always tease each other over who's gonna be the first to turn it down. Maybe, in this case, it's just a smoke screen created to excuse men for their infidelities so she can continue to carry on with her preferred profession with a little less guilt. And some have asked, why no single men? Because they have no reason to keep the guilty little secret. So much pride in what's going on, but so much effort to keep anyone but the cheating MM from knowing about it.

[Lizzie60]

We may just be calling the same thing different names. When you say 'sexual' it sounds like "INTERESTED in sex." When I say 'sexual' I mean "CAPABLE of sex." Potato, Potahto.

 

I do agree that MM would probably be more faithful if their W's were more INTERESTED in sex, and more enthusiastic participants in it. I also think the same goes for women, though. Maybe W's aren't as interested in it anymore because their husbands aren't enthusiastic participants either - they feel like they've already "got" the woman (their wives), so they don't have to try as hard.

 

But I'm fascinated by what you said about the newness and mysteriousness not having anything to do with a male's sexual appetite. I always thought they were more prone to roam BECAUSE they were seeking out the new and mysterious. Am I wrong?

 

when I say sexual... it could be 'interested' I should make the 'nuance'... but men IMO are more sexual creatures in general.

 

When I talked about the newness and myst... I meant it that way: if they had more sex at home they wouldn't cheat so it wouldn't be about the newness part...

 

Wow sometimes it's hard to explain our opinions...the wording...the 'nuances" of that wording...

 

Sometimes, I just skip a post because it would be too difficult to explain my POV...LOL

 

gotta go.. help my son today...

 

touroulou

[Darth Vader]

It's all 3.

 

1. stir the pot

 

Who doesn't in their LS lifetime?

 

2. find someone who'll back her up and give her a reason to carry on.

 

There will always be people who will back people up...but some just don't post about it when they see all the bickering...they are the silent supporters... and I can understand that... but to be honest I don't really need any support, I can very well defend myself.

 

3. she's living some fantasy...

 

In a way yes I am... I have, IMO, the best of both worlds... I am living the life I want, being single and independant, no need to compromise, etc. AND I have all the men and the sex I want. Isn't that a 'fantas...tic' life?

 

It is for me and for now I wouldn't trade it with any W... even the happiest.

 

 

There is a 4., and the 4 that I'm refering to is that you will pay for all the hurt and pain that you have caused, oh, maybe not here on earth, but in Eternity. Now, not even I would want someone to face the music like that, but, you caused this, so you're gonna have to face it. You still have time to "Wake Up!" Lastly, aren't you even concerned that one of these wifes will find you and kill you? It is a possibility. If you're so selfish, then why not take care of the one person that you most care about, YOU! and stop this crap!

[Lizzie60]

There is a 4., and the 4 that I'm refering to is that you will pay for all the hurt and pain that you have caused, oh, maybe not here on earth, but in Eternity. Now, not even I would want someone to face the music like that, but, you caused this, so you're gonna have to face it. You still have time to "Wake Up!" Lastly, aren't you even concerned that one of these wifes will find you and kill you? It is a possibility. If you're so selfish, then why not take care of the one person that you most care about, YOU! and stop this crap!

 

What a drama queen!!! (or king) See... I don't believe in Eternity...and if there is a God and all the tralala... I think (if I'm not mistaken) that he ALWAYS forgive... doesn't He? I was a 'saint' a hard-core catholic when I was younger... now 'religions' without much exceptions... revolt me.. just a bunch of hypocrits... and I don't believe in karma.

 

And the 'wife killing me' comment... I think you need to watch more chick flicks or porn... I think you watch too much of the 'Chainsaw Massacre' type.. LOL

 

And for your information, I DO take care of myself... and very well... thank you.

[Touche]

I have all the sex I want as well..just with ONE man. The thought of having sex with different men and with men who have no respect for me makes me want to vomit. And two (or more) in one DAY..ugh.

 

You ask "Isn't that a fantastic life?" God no. Not to me. It sounds like an absolute nightmare. Like if i had that dream that that was my life, I'd wake up sweating, heart beating and very upset. Interesting isn't it?

 

Chacun a son gout!

[Lizzie60]

I have the exact same nightmare but the other way around... If I dream I am stuck with only one man for the rest of my life...that's when I wake up crying...

 

Oh well...what's good for me isn't necessarily good for you... to each our own I guess.

[Curmudgeon]

Oh well...what's good for me isn't necessarily good for you... to each our own I guess.

 

What you delude yourself into thinking is good for you isn't good for most, thank God!

[Lizzie60]

this way I have more men for myself...

[OpenBook]

You ask "Isn't that a fantastic life?" God no. Not to me. It sounds like an absolute nightmare. Like if i had that dream that that was my life, I'd wake up sweating, heart beating and very upset.

 

I have the exact same nightmare but the other way around... If I dream I am stuck with only one man for the rest of my life...that's when I wake up crying...

 

I have nightmares about BOTH scenarios. I just want to have fabulous love affairs (but one at a time!!) for the rest of my life, and never get married again. That would be my dream life.

[Touche]

I have nightmares about BOTH scenarios. I just want to have fabulous love affairs (but one at a time!!) for the rest of my life, and never get married again. That would be my dream life.

 

That made me laugh! Too funny.