Bubbles Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Well would you look at That Now! Dr. Phil says that viewing internet pornography is WRONG to the relationship if it makes your partner feel bad. See that? I AM RIGHT! Thank you fyrewyfe............that was the best link any-one has ever posted here. So! All you people who have said that we women are the ones with the problem............YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE PROBLEM! SO THERE!!! bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
fyrwyfe Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Dr. Phil rocks, doesn't he? About that link... I was wrong in my earlier post when I said to click the link Addicted to Porn... the correct link is actually Is this just a "normal guy thing"? I just want to make it REAL EASY for everyone out there to see why that porn addiction is NOT okay, NOT normal and NOT "just a guy thing"!! Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 The guy said he watched porn maybe five times a week, and because his wife doesn't like it/is insecure about herself and he hides it to keep her off his case its an example of a "porn addiction gone out of control"? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Dr. Phil isn't, properly, even a physician anymore. He graduated in the 70s, quit marriage counselling because he 'couldn't stand the people' and has not earned his living as a shrink since. So that he happens to think that doesn't mean it's true. What would he say, I wonder, about men's sports 'addiction' that keeps them glued to the TV? I like some of what Dr. Phil says but I don't think he's the be-all and end-all of marriage advice. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Maybe Dr. Phil is NOT the be-all and end-all but.........he certainly is giving out much better advice than is being advocated by the media and their ideas of same sex marriages being o.k.......their ideas that we all should be open minded and accept/tolerate certain behaviours from our partners. You may think that Dr. Phil has some "old fashioned" ideas but I think you will find that when people are looking for resolution to their problems? Dr. Phil has some pretty sound advice. He beleives in respect for your partner NOT tolerance! And I for one tend to agree with him. He beleives in communication and honesty in a relationship. He beleives that if you want the relationship to continue you have to work on it; together as a team and if the person "behaving badly" (for lack of a better term) contines with their bad bahavior? Then the relationship is over. I think Dr. Phil does much more good for relationships than Jerry Springer does don't you? And both of their show's are apparantly based on the same ideas...........honesty in the relationship. How ironic is that? bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Um. I already said Dr. Phil has plenty of good advice. I have no problem with gay marriage because I comprehend that people don't choose homosexuality. And who on earth even thought of Jerry Springer? That they both have shows means zip, zero, and also zilch. Springer doesn't claim to be a shrink or a counsellor - Dr. P. does. If you want to compare him with people, then you compare apples with apples, i.e. counsellors with counsellors. So maybe Steve Harley or John Grey. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 moimeme, It was just a silly comparison......don't go off the deep-end on me for not being "perfect" please. I never knew that YOU would be the officianato of all day-time talk t.v. I'm not at all. All I know is that an aweful lot of people beleive what Dr. Phil beleives because they want a wholesome relationship - something to be proud of and he seems to be the one that is bringing that to the people.....with or without a degree......he's doing a lot of really good things. bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Not going off the deep end. He does have a degree in psych. From the 1970s. What he does not have (at least last time I checked) is board certification. Meaning he's not licenced to practice. And again, I did say he does good stuff. I just think he's out to lunch on the porn issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 You think he's out to lunch on the porn issue because you think that we should all accept it? Just asking a question. bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 My views on this have been expressed dozens of times. YES, if a guy wants to use some porn and get himself off when wifey/partner isn't available or is for some other reason not able to have sex, it is no big whoop and women should quit freaking out about it. I have also repeatedly said that if the partners' sex life is being impacted by this (and this does not mean when he's using porn instead of having sex because the relationship is bad otherwise because that's understandable as well) or if the man has an actual addiction (meaning he spends so much time on it that it prevents him from doing other things) then that's another issue entirely. Link to post Share on other sites
JustLilOleMe Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I think that porn viewing either IS or IS NOT okay depending on both partners agreement in the relationship. If it is something that they do together and enjoy, then it's okay. If it's something that they agree is okay for one or the other to do, then it's okay. If it is something that hurts one partner - then it is not okay. Simplistic, I know - but to try to pidgeonhole sexuality into such rules of right and wrong among consenting adults strikes me as silly. Hopefully, relationships are built in such a way that the folks can honestly share their feelings and respect their partners feelings enough to find a workable position. I, for one, do not care for the idea of my husband staring at naked females other than me. As luck would have it, he's not terribly hip on the idea of me staring at other naked men - when push comes to shove - so it's something that is not a part of our lives. This was an issue we fought about for a bit early on in our relationship. I wish those of you all the best, that are currently fighting about it. There's nothing more personal, self-esteem crushing, and controversial, than your sex lives. Link to post Share on other sites
FolderWife Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 It is not OK behavior. It is a perverse and ridiculous intrusion into your relationship. It is an insult, it is disloyal and it is cheating. Consider how it makes your partner feel. If it makes your partner feel ugly, hurt, deceived, lied to or inadequate, then it needs to stop. If it is eroding your relationship, it's gone too far. Pornography isn't real, it's a fantasy. It's makeup, beauty lenses, hair extensions, camera angles, lighting and silicone! It's also somebody's daughter who has taken a really, really wrong turn. She's demeaning herself, debasing herself, humiliating herself and she's being exploited by people who are funded by you. It is a sick, demented, twisted world. It's not healthy, it's not natural and it's not normal. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Thanks Monday .........I thought I was the only left to fight the good fight! bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 It is not OK behavior. It is a perverse and ridiculous intrusion into your relationship. It is an insult, it is disloyal and it is cheating. Consider how it makes your partner feel. If it makes your partner feel ugly, hurt, deceived, lied to or inadequate, then it needs to stop. If it is eroding your relationship, it's gone too far. And that is your opinion and you refer to some people who feel that way. My guy's looking at porn has NEVER made me feel ugly, hurt, deceived, lied to or inadequate and if it did, I'd understand it was MY problem and MY insecurity and I'd get counselling to overcome MY insecurity. NOBODY 'makes' you feel anything. You choose how to feel. If your feelings are unreasonable, (and feeling ugly because someone looks at porn is unreasonable, IMHO), then you need to get them fixed, not insist the world dance to your tune. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Monday Pornography isn't real, it's a fantasy. It's makeup, beauty lenses, hair extensions, camera angles, lighting and silicone! It's also somebody's daughter who has taken a really, really wrong turn. She's demeaning herself, debasing herself, humiliating herself and she's being exploited by people who are funded by you. It is a sick, demented, twisted world. It's not healthy, it's not natural and it's not normal. I watched a great debate between Susan Cole and Ron Jeremy here at the university I work at regarding porn and the porn industry. It IS fantasy, but so is any movie you watch, any book you read, any form of entertainment in general is built on fantasy. Get rid of makeup, beauty lenses, camera angles, lighting, and silicone/saline -- hell, you get rid of the entire entertainment industry. I am a recovering addict. I say this because once addicted, you are always a recovering addict. Addiction is a separate issue from porn. Just like there are people who can, say, drink socially -- there are also people who, upon taking their first sip, will drink until they can't stand up. Or they drink every night and can't go without alcohol one day. Addicts can and will become addicted to anything, from video games to cocaine. Whatever their drug of choice is. And they can learn to substitute one drug for another. Interestingly enough, all the major hardcore porn production companies are headed by -- women. Women make more than 5 times as much as men in the porn industry. This is the only industry where this is true. I'm not saying porn addiction is right or anything. I enjoy porn now and then - maybe 6-7 times a year, or more. I don't keep track, but I don't need it to get off. I just think you have this attitude like outlawing it would make all these problems related to addiction issues go away and that simply isn't the case. Taking away the drug won't change the addict. Addressing the issue of addiction, perhaps, WILL change the addict. That route has yet to be taken, and we have yet to see if this tactic will work. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 And you...cannot expect the world to dance to YOUR tune either!!! Please, allow us to agree to disagree......this is going to turn into ANOTHER moimeme fight. Moimeme against the machine! 50% of the world does not appreciate pronography the other half does.......there is no simple fix but I will say this much.........when a person is in pain and hurting? the last thing that person needs to hear is "Get over it, or Get help" How old are you? 19? Moimeme, wait until you are married and have a few kids and YOUR body has been contorted, stretched and damaged from child birth. Let's see what you have to say about internet pornography then huh? Monday........do you agree? bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Bubbles IF you would read this entire thread you would see that I and others have weighed in multiple times on this thread. All women do NOT share your view, sorry to inform you. And therefore I am perfectly entitled to speak as one who does not. Moimeme, wait until you are married and have a few kids and YOUR body has been contorted, stretched and damaged from child birth. Let's see what you have to say about internet pornography then huh? You insist on believing that men look at porn to see bodies they like better than yours. That's your belief to change or not. I do not share it and never will. And Monday has had as many kids as I've had. She's had a boob job and has posted some nice photos. Insecurity is in the head and has nothing to do with one's looks. Now if you want to cling desperately to your insecurity rather than getting it fixed, go right ahead. Me, if I have a problem, I get it fixed because I don't need the grief of having problems. If I had an irrational belief that caused me such grief, I'd pound down the door of a therapist until it was fixed rather than insist that it way my problem and by damn, I'm keeping it. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Carry on moimeme.......carry on! I'm finished with this thread. I have posted my opinion. I have thrashed it out. I'm done. bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
FolderWife Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I think it's very sad that anyone would do anything that would put their spouse wondering if they should leave them or not. Do you realize how much pain it puts me in to think to myself that my husband can't let go of this ONE THING that hurts me. It makes me feel so unimportant to him. It makes me feel like he doesn't give a crap about me as long as he gets what HE wants. That hurts. I feel like I do anything that he asks of me, but he can't do this one little thing. Then I start to wonder if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has so little regard for me. It got to the point that the lies were tearing me apart. I finally just let him have his porn, so I wouldn't have to always wonder if he's hiding something. But now I feel so much resentment that I am the one who always has to give and give and give, and it's taking it's toll on me. It hurts him too...he got used to sex whenever he wants it, but now, whenever he touches me, I think to myself, I'm not really in the mood...and he's probably not thinking about me any way...and he can masterbate if he needs to get off...so I just ignore his advances. I'm just so turned off by this whole thing...if he wants porn, he can have it. I'm not going to push myself into wanting to be with him. And if some man comes along, and he turns me on, and I want to have sex with him...then OOPS, I lied, OOPS, I hurt my husband. I made a mistake. He should forgive me. It's his problem, he needs to get over it. He's ruined my trust in him too...I mean, what if one day he gets drunk and sleeps with someone, and then regrets it immediately. He's already proven that his promises mean NOTHING, and he'll always follow whatever urge his penis leads him to. So he confesses, and apologizes, and promises to never do it again...and I'll be like bull s***! If he can lie and lie and lie about this, and do what he wants any way, why should I ever trust him in any other situation. So I'll believe that he'll cheat again whether he does or not. I love him, but I don't trust him. It's hard not to have doubts every day. And then he wonders "What's wrong..." Link to post Share on other sites
FolderWife Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 And another thing...his lies have tainted EVERYTHING. Like the other day, I got on here doting that my husband loves me so much, that he wants to get home before me, so he can spend time with me. But now looking at it...he probably has some OTHER secret that I don't know about, and he has to be home so he can make sure I don't find it Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Monday, I have a question for you. Do you feel like YOU are the one that should go to the doctor to "fix" yourself because you are the one with the insecurities? bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Why bother? Why not live a life of turmoil and feeling inferior and ugly? It's such a better way to live. Never mind that it's based on false beliefs - cling to them because they make you feel *SO* good. Continue to believe that he is in love with the women in the porn and that he prefers them to you. It's all in your head, but might as well feed the false illusions so they'll continue to torture you. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Originally posted by Monday I think it's very sad that anyone would do anything that would put their spouse wondering if they should leave them or not. Do you realize how much pain it puts me in to think to myself that my husband can't let go of this ONE THING that hurts me. It makes me feel so unimportant to him. It makes me feel like he doesn't give a crap about me as long as he gets what HE wants. That hurts. I feel like I do anything that he asks of me, but he can't do this one little thing. Then I start to wonder if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has so little regard for me. It got to the point that the lies were tearing me apart. I finally just let him have his porn, so I wouldn't have to always wonder if he's hiding something. But now I feel so much resentment that I am the one who always has to give and give and give, and it's taking it's toll on me. It hurts him too...he got used to sex whenever he wants it, but now, whenever he touches me, I think to myself, I'm not really in the mood...and he's probably not thinking about me any way...and he can masterbate if he needs to get off...so I just ignore his advances. I'm just so turned off by this whole thing...if he wants porn, he can have it. I'm not going to push myself into wanting to be with him. And if some man comes along, and he turns me on, and I want to have sex with him...then OOPS, I lied, OOPS, I hurt my husband. I made a mistake. He should forgive me. It's his problem, he needs to get over it. He's ruined my trust in him too...I mean, what if one day he gets drunk and sleeps with someone, and then regrets it immediately. He's already proven that his promises mean NOTHING, and he'll always follow whatever urge his penis leads him to. So he confesses, and apologizes, and promises to never do it again...and I'll be like bull s***! If he can lie and lie and lie about this, and do what he wants any way, why should I ever trust him in any other situation. So I'll believe that he'll cheat again whether he does or not. I love him, but I don't trust him. It's hard not to have doubts every day. And then he wonders "What's wrong..." These are things an addict's partner says, you could go to an al-anon meeting and hear the exact same thing about a husband's addiction to alcohol, or any other recreational drug.... Link to post Share on other sites
fyrwyfe Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [color=darkblue] So moimeme - if you enjoyed looking at online porn as long as it had guys with enormous hard-ons YET your SO told you this really bothered him - it made him feel insecure, like perhaps his erection wasn't large enough for you, made him feel a like there is a lack of interest in him etc, would you say to him that he needs therapy rather than think about how your actions are causing him to feel? Many of these women are experiencing the 'lack of interest' from their SO's, experiencing a limp weenie because the wife just isn't doin' it for them like the porn does, experiencing being left alone in bed while their SO jacks-off to porn in the den instead - so still therapy for the wife to get over her "false beliefs" like you say? Therapy for having to put up with an ass maybe... [/color] Link to post Share on other sites
FolderWife Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Exactly! Being turned down for sex, or offered a limp penis, but then awaking at three in the morning to find yourself alone in bed, and looking down the hall, and seeing the light from the computer, and KNOWING that your man refused sex with you, but is down the hall masterbating. And to incorporate porn into your sex life is SUICIDE! I say, "Let's watch a porno while we do it" to try and include myself into his secret life, and the next thing I know, every time we do it, he's getting me from behind, while watching a movie!!!! I DON'T WANT SEX LIKE THAT! I want him to have sex with ME, not with someone else in his head Link to post Share on other sites
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