Recent separation

[wising_up]

My wife left me very recently after two years of marriage and six-and-a-half years of being together. She has said that we are incompatible and that she does not want to be married. It is her expressed view that the reasons are long standing. One of her complaints has been that I am not affectionate enough, which I accept. Last fall we had a crisis when she said that she was lonely and we were not seeing enough of each other. She also said that she would take up with another man if one that she was attracted to become available. Unfortunately I had school commitments at the time that I was trying hard to complete. She went for counseling then and the gist of what she got out of that was that a lot of the things she was putting on me actually stemmed from her. We also tried to work on our intimacy, which was another weakness of mine. I thought we were doing better overall because she would refer to that time of crisis as ‘the troubles we had,’ or words to that effect (i.e. past tense).

 

Recently she began asking me whether I thought it was OK to flirt with other people and have sexual fantasies about other men/women. I said that I thought flirting was OK in certain circumstances but that I didn’t believe it was appropriate to have sexual fantasies about other people when you were married. She also met a work colleague whom she thought was attractive, although she said he had a girlfriend. She admitted that they became e-mail buddies and joked about a comment that he made one night when he drove her home after she got injured in a sports game they were playing in. Apparently he asked, humourously, whether I would be angry with him for giving her a ride home and she laughed and said ‘No’ because I am very even tempered. She had also asked me previously whether I thought that it was odd that he was asking her lots of questions about her relationship.

 

Before the separation she stated the same complaints about being lonely, feeling no connection with me and not seeing enough of me because of my school commitments (which will finally end in August). Then I noticed she had stopped wearing her wedding rings and she said she didn’t want to be married to me any more. Something else she said was that she would have had an affair with another man (and I think she cited the work colleague as an example) if he was available and she would have done it without remorse, but she didn’t want to do that because she knew it would really hurt me (I should point out that before she met me she cheated once on one boyfriend at university and had a non-sexual relationship for several months with another person whom she knew had a long-term partner).

 

Of course, my feeling is that I would like her to come back home, but she seems to be adamant that we cannot close the gap between us. I believe her when she says that she loves me and thinks I am a great guy. I would like to try marriage guidance counseling and want to become more affectionate (any suggestions?), but the former seems unlikely to happen and she has said that she doesn’t believe the latter is possible. I am going for individual counseling and she says that she is going to do the same. I should also point out that she has had other stresses this year that have weighed heavily on her and I think she has low self esteem. She often complained about being fat (which was nonsense) and incompetent in her job, and I think she was afraid that people thought she was weak and lazy.

 

I have seen plenty of great advice on these pages and wondered what comments people have about my situation and what I should do. I am pretty sure I know what they will be, but I would be interested to hear them.

[notspiritual]

I am at one month after separation and I have experienced what you are feeling now. My wife gave up on me when I was studying hard and trying to start a career.

 

What is happening to you is rather common (75% of divorce are initiated by women, when there is house and children involved, 95% of divorce are initiated by women). Women get bored easily. That is why it not difficult for a player to convince a woman to cheat on her boyfriend or husband. In fact most women are bored and would gladly cheat on the first opportunity, they just won’t admit it openly. So as a husband, you want to make sure that she never gets bored: you do not neglect her and you are more affectionate. She said you are even-tempered? You should be angry when it is justified. Women hate doormat, they hate nice guys. It is like dog training, you reward the dog with affection when it is kind but you need to show your anger when the dog behaves badly.

 

The first best scenario is that some guy bangs her and then drop her like trash. She would understand she was stupid and value you more. Then she might want to come back with you. That is why I think society needs more stealer-dumper.

 

The second best scenario, assuming you want to win her back is to be the kind of man you were when you first met her. You need to create attraction again. To do that, you need to show your funny, witty and affectionate side. You must show you are strong and kind even if she is a bitch. But you should never lose your dignity and be a doormat in the process. Show her you can have fun without her. Get busy – work out, have fun with your buddies.

 

If it does not work, just face the reality, she does not want to be with you anymore. It is better to know it sooner than later. You will get rid of a woman who does not value you.

 

Whatever happens, it will be great because your life will be more authentic from now on.

[Melovator]

I'm not sure I've got enough testosterone to properly respond...

But from what you've written your wife is not committed to you at all. She sounds really immature and mean frankly and I can tell that you're trying to be nice and evenhanded when describing the situation.

She has told you she would have an affair with a work collegue, feel no remorse, and you want to be married to this person? Whatever other stresses she's got in her life it sounds like she's decided that instead of dealing with them (because that's hard work) she's blaming you, you don't do this and that and the other. What was she doing for you?

If she has self-esteem issues then they're her issues to work through, they are not yours to worry about and they are not a reason to excuse her actions even if they make the situation semi-understandable to you.

I'm sorry I'm not sure I can say it forcefully enough but I'll try; She's a jerk who is not worthy of your care and affection! You deserve someone who will treat you with respect, not the callousness you've described.

You are not the problem, she is. Take care of yourself, the counselling your getting is a great start.

[wising_up]

I would welcome some opinions about the following...

 

My estranged wife told me yesterday that she is not yet ready to see a counselor. She said that she doesn’t trust counselors after the experience that she had with one she went to individually when we were having problems last year. She said that although she thought that one was good at the time, she came to the conclusion later that they had been harmful and that they had made her feel like our relationships problems were because of her. A few weeks ago, when I told her that my counselor was open to couples counseling, she said that she didn’t want to do that because she was tired of hearing that 'this' (by which I assume she meant our problems) were all because of her.

 

Yesterday she was also musing over whether it was better to stick with one person for life or have a series of short term relationships that you end when the initial passion and excitement dies. She also wondered whether the really loving relationships were those that never experience that plateau in feelings that people have for each other that can occur when partners get comfortable with each other or one gets temporarily distracted by other things (i.e. work). I had previously suggested that this ‘plateau’ phase is very common and I used, as an example, a work colleague who told me that their relationship had almost broken down because of it several months ago.

 

I have been wondering if my wife is going through an existential or early mid-life crisis. What do you all think and what should I do? I have been trying to get on with my life and take all the good advice on these pages but I have seen a lot of her lately because were are both moving house (separately). I now feel like I want to avoid contact with her because it is getting me down.

[Woggle]

If you don't have kids get rid of her as fast as you can and find a woman that is worth it. Why do you even want this woman back who couldn't wait just a little bit to let you finish school so you would have the education to make a better life for the both of you? You can do so much better than her.

[wising_up]

If you don't have kids get rid of her as fast as you can and find a woman that is worth it. Why do you even want this woman back who couldn't wait just a little bit to let you finish school so you would have the education to make a better life for the both of you? You can do so much better than her.

 

Thanks for your reply, Woggle. That's pretty much what I feel like I want to do right now.

[Woggle]

Thanks for your reply, Woggle. That's pretty much what I feel like I want to do right now.

 

Then take that next step and do it.

[wising_up]

Then take that next step and do it.

 

What do you suggest that I should do and/or say?

[whichwayisup]

If you're ready to throw in the towel, you take control and tell her you're going to be speaking to a lawyer to get the paper work ready for a divorce. If she is really wanting out, she'll have NO problem with this, OR, she'll react and say she's not sure what she wants, but a divorce is moving too fast.

 

THAT is when you tell her, it's either FIX the marriage by going to counselling (Both marriage counselling and individual counselling) or it's over.

 

Stay strong and take care of you.

[tinke]

mid-life crisis, how old is she? it seems to me that she is looking to justify her infidelity. quite honestly, if she is bored and is seeking more attention..open the door for her!! be gone!!!!

not that that would be easy for you..but in reality, you date and bond together to become so united, it withstands the tough times. you should be able to feel this from your mate, that no matter what (of course, unless there is no give from you) your mate will stand with you. it should be a comforting thought. not, worried about her becoming bored!

geez...will you have to be on guard in the future and make sure she doesn't grow bored, and if so, you are to blame? Pffff. mid-life crisis?? she doesn't sound mature enough!!!

please take care of you.... stop weighing out how to say things...just say them. she has already discredited you.

[Ladyjane14]

If you're ready to throw in the towel, you take control and tell her you're going to be speaking to a lawyer to get the paper work ready for a divorce. If she is really wanting out, she'll have NO problem with this, OR, she'll react and say she's not sure what she wants, but a divorce is moving too fast.

 

THAT is when you tell her, it's either FIX the marriage by going to counselling (Both marriage counselling and individual counselling) or it's over.

 

Stay strong and take care of you.

 

I agree with WWIU.

There's no reason why somebody else should be in the driver's seat of YOUR life... and clearly not when they're willing to drive it off into the ditch like what she's doing now.

 

You can't repair the marriage on your own... so, the option to continue in the marriage is off the table unless your WW steps up and joins you to change that dynamic. If it was me, I'd put her feet to the fire just as WWIU has said.

[sumdude]

Ditto... let her go... now... Heck she very well is already into someone else.. maybe not yet physically (hmph) but everything she's telling you is beyond red flags.. Give her what she wants .. freedom. You'll find the gift is for you as well. I suggest in the future if a woman you are in a commited relationship with asks you if flirting etc. with someone else is okay the answer is no.

[wising_up]

My thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. I have been taking control of my life since the separation and thought that I was doing a pretty good job of it (see here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1262185&postcount=26). This weekend has been a bit of a setback because during all the time we spent together moving this week I thought a detected a softening of her position. I guess I was wrong!

 

Divorce is not an option at this point because we have to have been separated for a year before we can apply for it. She gave me back the engagement and wedding rings yesterday. Maybe I should threaten to sell those . Any other suggestions?

 

Funnily enough she said something to me yesterday about the work colleague she was attracted to before the separation. She asked me if she had told me that she found out that he is shallow! I had so smile to myself inside.

 

She is 31, BTW.

[Woggle]

I say yes sell the rings and have a ball with the money. You can't get the divorce right now but start plotting your escape so you are in a good position when you do file.

[Gunny376]

I'd be telling this little gal, that she's got one or two choices, either get back in the marriage or get the hell out, and that she's got about a freaking heartbeat to make her mind up, or I would be making it up for her. And, once I made the decision that there wouldn't a snowball's chance of Hell of my ever taking her azz back! Not tommorrow, next year, the next lifetime.

 

And then I'd be telling her not to be calling me for anything. I'd get an attorney, and I'd give her his/her card. This is who you need to contact about the divorce ~ we're through. Whatever problems you have? That's what they are your problems! Don't be calling me about spit. You want to be on your own, your want your freedom? Baby you've got it! You fall down on your azz, that's your problem ~ not mine! You can't pay the rent, your car breaks down, you don't have any money for the groceries ~ "tough titty, said the kitty!" Its "root hog or die time now!"

(Southern expression for really hard times)

 

Don't be pining over this gal? That's what she wants you to do! She wants to do this drama thing. She wants you sitting around drinking cases of whisky listening to sad country songs.

 

Forget that!

 

Where in tha' hell did you ever get in your head that this is the best that you can do? Where did you get it in your head that this little immature gal is the best that you deserve?

 

If it had been me she'd been out on the street the same night she came home talking all that smack. Anyone that knows me that some woman had best not come home talking all that trash coming out her mouth like your woman is. She may not be feeling it for me anymore, and that's all well and fine, but I don't "play" ~ I roll with Mr. Reeality.

 

Some woman comes and tells me she's not feeling it for me anymore ~ not a problem! I'm going to be the answer to your dreams Darling!

 

A woman dumps you? All that means is you've got to get up off your dead azz and go find youself someone that can use what she's abused. All it means is that you've got to go and find yourself some new loving. Damn the bad luck!

 

There are a lot of women who get this mentality in thinking they're in the driver's seat like they were back in high school or college. Newsflash there Slick. That all ended at about the age of 25. From then on? The table starts to flip. The number of available men to women starts diminishing. Or I should the number of good available men starts to diminish.

 

Factor in getting married, in long term relationships, becoming drunks, crackheads, crankheads, (other drugs) going to prison, getting killed or mained for life, coming to terms with being gay, whatever. Hell around here a lot of women have problems just finding a guy with a car and holding down a steady job (let alone a good steady job)

 

And granted finding a good spouse, (be they man or woman) is an all day long chore, they're out there. You can bet the ranch that there's some old gal out there wondering where in the Hell you are, and what's taking you so long in finding her and her finding you!

 

YOUR problem here isn't her! Your problem here is YOU! What you've done here is you've settled for the first little gal to come along that would give you the time of day, show you a little interest in you and show you a little bit of attention. You've got it in your brain housing group that this is a hit and miss thing ~ and that you got lucky to find a gal at all that would be interested in you!

 

Your problem here is not her! Forget her! Your problem here is that your lacking in self confidence in yourself!

 

Dating and mating is a game, and you don't fully understand and comprehend the rules of the game. You need to learn the rules of the game, and how to play the game. Dating and mating is a "dance" and your azz doesn't know how to dance the dance, let alone walk the walk and talk the talk.

 

Women really are simple. They just want to have "fun" ~ just like the song says. They just want a guy to show them a good time. The vast majority ~ even the most self dependent, self assured, independent, and self supporting of them lack that the miscule of a fraction of an inch in self-confidence in themselves because they've been bombarded since childhood by a multitude of sources that they're "just not good enough"

 

That's why they're so attracted to a guy who's self confident in and of himself. They seek in him that which they can't just quite achive themselves. (There are exceptions, I'm speaking in generalities here ~ and as a general rule. There are a lot of women here on LS that's a whole other thread unto itself)

 

What you need to do is kick this little gal to the curb, and then start working on yourself! Your self confidence. You need to learn the in's and out's of the dating and mating game. You need to clearly define what your wanting and needing in a woman, a spouse, a wife. You need to learn how to present yourself, how to dress for success, how to flirt, how to be fun, have fun, be fun ~ how to be confident about yourself and your life. How to be seductive without any "end" motive in mind ~ that is to say flirt, have fun, be seductive just for the sake of having fun with women.

 

Its not about getting laid my Man ~ its all about just having and being fun ~ just for the sake of being fun.

[Ladyjane14]

"root hog or die"

 

OMG.. that's one of my favorites!

So true too.