will my wife ever come back to me

[confuzd]

UPDATE:

at this point I guess everyone knows where I stand Lol!!!! oh boy this has been a truly interesting discussion. In the famous words of rodney king "can't we all just get along"

 

anyways,

 

My wife calls me at about two today, I didn't call her today as I haven't been calling her for over a week. She was very sweet, and just wanted to talk. I was in her neck of the woods a little earlier today and I told her that I was gonna pop in and say hi but that I thought it would have been unappropriate,

 

she sounded disappointed and said, "no you could've come by" I said "I didn't want to make you feel uncomfortable" and she said "I wouldn't have you could've come"

 

then she talked about doing something tonight. maybe a movie or something.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

confuzd

[madgun68]

Failed? It's not about whether you won or lost your battle trying to get them to come back to the marriage. It's about whether the marriage as a whole is going to work. The point I am trying to stress here is that if one person does not want to commit themselves into making the marriage work, then it won't.

It is exactly about that battle.

 

His wife is not going to be willing to commit to their marriage after being detached for so long unless she knows things will be different.. That HE is different. That is going to take time to show her. He's been slipping up a little here and there. She doesn't know if the changes he made are going to stick or, if she does commit, that he'll just revert right back to the way he was.

 

She wants to be reassured in a way that he can't just give her. Only time can give her that.

 

I've read stories about couples who have divorced, married other people, divoced them and then married each other again. They've remained married for far longer than they had before. If that can happen, then there is still a chance (even if so slim that it needs to be viewed under a microscope) that this marriage can be saved.

 

It doesnt matter how many counselors you see or books you read. You can't make a person want something. That is what he is trying to do. Trying to make her 'see the light' in his opinion. That is not going to work in the long run. IMO he needs to let her go so she can find out what she wants in her own time. He needs to also move onto greater and better things as well.

If he does that then it doesn't matter what she figures out she wants.

 

Sure, it'll be much harder on him to cope with what was lost if he continues, but at least he'll be able to look back and know that he put in the effort and it still didn't work.

 

How many look back and are just full of regret for 'Shoulda done this' and 'wish I'd tried that' thoughts.. Thinking that there was something else they could have tried.

[CaliGuy]

I agree, and I don't expect them to be. I do know this will take time and I have along way to go.

 

 

 

I agree 100% and yes she has mentioned this

 

 

 

your right I don't know about another man, and it does me no good to think about it. This is not about another man anyways.

 

 

 

Yes I agree, but I think that unsolicited hugs, sweet phonecalls, and such are pretty good signs that something is going on, and are definitely actions

 

 

 

your right I may have tunnel vision, okay I do have tunnel vision. I call it laser focus. It has helped me all my life to achieve success and obtain goals. if you allow 1% of doubt then you are out. The odds are also very good that we will reconcile. I like to think the glass is half full. I also don't want things to go back to normal, when we do reconcile it will be a new beginning, the old me is gone for good.

 

 

of course I have considered it, but it is not productive for me to focus on it. It has been considered and for now that is all the attention it deserves.

 

 

 

They are, I guess I haven't shown it in my posts, I come here to rant and rave but in front of her I don't do this. Yes we all have our slip ups but I pick myself up and get back on track. Thats what this board is for, so you can yell, scream, kick and cry, and hopefully get support along the way, so that you don't do this in front of your spouse

 

 

 

Well I appreciate it.

 

 

okay enough of the other man, why keep bringing it up, it is not healthy, If it is going on I can't stop it anyways so it is a waste of my energy to focus on it.

 

 

 

If space is what she wants space is what she gets. Just lovingly backing off yet being there for her as a friend. It has worked thus far and I will continue with this philosophy of space.

 

 

of course she is the one who left

 

that takes time,many spouses have left with no intention of ever reconciling, but in the end have a change of heart

 

baby steps. it will all come in due time

 

she is not really talking much, I am actually going off of her actions at this point. No she hasn't come out and said lets get back together, but I don't expect her too. from all my research and study, these are all signs leading up to that though.

 

 

which I have, but the more she contacts me the more I will reward the good behavior.

 

 

 

there we go with the other man again, no I am watching closely and observing but it has been a little more than just one scrap.

 

 

 

Im sorry if you think I am defensive, but have you ever dreamt of anything in your life, in the entrepreunerial world we call them dream stealers. And I get very defensive if any one tries to steal my dreams or the dreams of anyone else. Why do it, if you really care. If your son wanted to be the president, or an NBA star, would you tell him it won't happen and crush his dreams. Every success begins with a dream, and laser focus. From donald trump, to michael jordan. It does nobody any good to focus on what if it doesn't work, I am a pretty responsible person and will be just fine if the negative does happen, so It does me no good to focus on it.

 

 

well you have to be happy for the small successes, because thats where it starts, if you overlook them and lose hope you may quit before the big signs are there, this rings true for almost everything in life. Many people quit right on the bring of success, because they didn't notice the little signs.

 

Why, for all you know she may not be.

 

 

Im not upset, maybe a little bothered, and I apologize for any sarcasm. I hope you can understand that you telling me to consider the other man, and to realize that there is a good chance my marriage is over doesn't benefit my situation either.

 

respectfully,

confuzd

 

 

Confuzd:

 

I am not trying to smash your dreams nor am I trying to impede your progress. In fact, I am trying to do just the opposite. I WANT you to succeed.

 

All I hope to accomplish is to keep you on an even keel so that you don't jump at any little scrap of attention she gives you and blow the entire "stew" so to speak.

 

JMargel is right. You are being very insecure here. And to be frank and honest, you have a reason to be. (read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" for some great advice on how to get rid of a lot of a-typical male insecurities involving relationships.)

 

It's your wife who has decided that she may want to end the relationship. This is why I keep bringing up the OM because it is a VERY important problem with your relationship. If indeed the OM is still involved, even if not sexually, he can be impeding your wife's ability to make RATIONAL decisions on your relationship. Until he is 100% out of the picture, the OM is a very, VERY big roadblock. I know you'd rather not focus on the OM but you have to come to grips with the reality that if she is still in contact with him in any way, shape or form your relationship can not be repaired.

 

Baby steps, I agree. But your wife first has to get rid of any contact with the OM then dedicate herself to not only working on the relationship but slaying her own personal insecurities that contributed to the demise of the relationship. And I do think her insecurities, based on your comments, have caused a majority of your marriage issues.

 

Cheers.

[CaliGuy]

It is exactly about that battle.

 

His wife is not going to be willing to commit to their marriage after being detached for so long unless she knows things will be different.. That HE is different. That is going to take time to show her. He's been slipping up a little here and there. She doesn't know if the changes he made are going to stick or, if she does commit, that he'll just revert right back to the way he was.

 

She wants to be reassured in a way that he can't just give her. Only time can give her that.

 

I've read stories about couples who have divorced, married other people, divoced them and then married each other again. They've remained married for far longer than they had before. If that can happen, then there is still a chance (even if so slim that it needs to be viewed under a microscope) that this marriage can be saved.

 

If he does that then it doesn't matter what she figures out she wants.

 

Sure, it'll be much harder on him to cope with what was lost if he continues, but at least he'll be able to look back and know that he put in the effort and it still didn't work.

 

How many look back and are just full of regret for 'Shoulda done this' and 'wish I'd tried that' thoughts.. Thinking that there was something else they could have tried.

 

 

That is why I say that Confuzd needs to keep a time line in his head of when he will reach the point that he has tried everything he can.

 

JMargel is right. Only his wife can make the decision to make the marriage work. Confuzd is 100% committed. It's just that his wife isn't. Until she is, he needs to realize he has very little control over the outcome.

[madgun68]

That is why I say that Confuzd needs to keep a time line in his head of when he will reach the point that he has tried everything he can.

 

JMargel is right. Only his wife can make the decision to make the marriage work. Confuzd is 100% committed. It's just that his wife isn't. Until she is, he needs to realize he has very little control over the outcome.

True. Even I think that, as of right now, chances are greater that the divorce will happen than it not.

 

Having said that, however, sometimes advice is conflicting. As an example, it is being suggested that he give her space and remain out of contact with her. The problem with that is that he NEEDS to show her that he isn't the same guy.. He can't do that if they're not in contact with one another.

 

What I really wonder though, is what is more important for her to commit to. The marriage itself or Confuzd. Seems to me there is a difference here. If she commits to work on their marriage, without fully thinking Confuzd is a changed man, every little thing that may go wrong is just going to drive home in her the fact that he didn't change and that it will be just like before.

 

However, if she commits to him first, seeing that he is a different Confuzd, she may just be more accepting that things that happen are lifes little bumps because she still knows that he isn't the same old guy, and these don't feel like the same old problems.

 

I am pulling for the best though..

[confuzd]

 

 

It's your wife who has decided that she may want to end the relationship. This is why I keep bringing up the OM because it is a VERY important problem with your relationship. If indeed the OM is still involved, even if not sexually, he can be impeding your wife's ability to make RATIONAL decisions on your relationship. Until he is 100% out of the picture, the OM is a very, VERY big roadblock. I know you'd rather not focus on the OM but you have to come to grips with the reality that if she is still in contact with him in any way, shape or form your relationship can not be repaired.

I think where we are missing each other is that I understand this, I actually understand all of it, but like you say there is nothing I can do about it. So why focus on it.

[confuzd]

That is why I say that Confuzd needs to keep a time line in his head of when he will reach the point that he has tried everything he can.

 

JMargel is right. Only his wife can make the decision to make the marriage work. Confuzd is 100% committed. It's just that his wife isn't. Until she is, he needs to realize he has very little control over the outcome.

I realize this, I really really do, I am not trying to control her, I am doing the only thing I can do at this point which is back off, stop being needy, and supporting her.

I know that making this marriage work is my wifes decision, If it weren't we wouild be together already.

 

I have to become the person she wants to be with, and has always wanted to be with, I have to be the man she wanted me to be, and she begged me to be.

 

I am doing everything you suggest, I guess the frustrating part is maybe you don't see it because I am not doing it to the extreme or to the extent you desire. But I am doing it.

 

Confuzd

[CaliGuy]

I realize this, I really really do, I am not trying to control her, I am doing the only thing I can do at this point which is back off, stop being needy, and supporting her.

I know that making this marriage work is my wifes decision, If it weren't we wouild be together already.

 

I have to become the person she wants to be with, and has always wanted to be with, I have to be the man she wanted me to be, and she begged me to be.

 

I am doing everything you suggest, I guess the frustrating part is maybe you don't see it because I am not doing it to the extreme or to the extent you desire. But I am doing it.

 

Confuzd

 

It's not me, my friend. It's you. It's what YOU desire. And you shouldn't push yourself to be who she wants you to be.

 

Those changes must come from within for them to have any lasting effect. They must be entirely self-motivated.

[Cobra_X30]

I hope so, I thought for a moment that alot of the comments that are made on these board actually may scare people in need of help away from posting their stories here in fear that their dreams will be crushed, i hope that is not the environment that has been created here

I agree, reality is what we perceive it to be, this could go into a long discussion of psychology but, everyone has their own reality.

as long as I can, that is the only answer I can give you, Im not sure what move your talking about.

 

No, honestly these are guys who have been burned in VERY similar situations... now that doesnt preclude things working for you... They just want to protect you from the pain they have experienced.

 

Now, I completely understand the fact that you want this to work... I respect that in a way you cant understand... because when my dad found out about my moms A, he walked. I respect his decision now... but it took time... the point is I have a distinct perspective on what your trying to do... and I really respect it.

 

I see it like this, You've shown her your commitment to change what two months? You have to put down more effort... more time, to prove that you wont break her heart. Yeah, she messed up and spent some time with another guy. Truth is though, the two of you broke up a while back... your both single, basically. You cant hold that against her at this point. So with that in mind you cant treat her like your married.

 

I think you need to show her that you have changed and that the change is permanent. Eventually, that is going to sink into her brain. Maybe, that wont happen until December... or later. The point is this, she wont make that determination on her own.

 

Your going to have to assist her in this. At some point your going to have to tell you "I love you more than anything in this world, I love you more than life. I want us to give this another try, and I will do everything within my power to make sure you do not regret it." At that point if she still holds any love for you, she should be willing to give you that last shot.

 

Dang this is a long post... at least for me.

 

Listen if you need romantic wording or things to say that will melt her heart I can help! More than anyone else here I can help!

[Yernasia Quorelios]

....and still 100% with you Confuzd. My summary of your situation so far:

• You've cleared the painful, emotional dependency bit and have emerged without bitterness or resentment
  
• You are ready to walk away, move on etc but have chosen not to
  
• You are 100% aware of the implications of any outcome - she may come back, she may not - you're betting she will come back
  
• You have decided that the best advice on LS regarding what's going in your wife's head comes from another female, one of the other members who seem to understand what's happening with the two of you. I am talking, of course, about the wonderful Lysne.

A lot of male members would do well to listen to what Lysne and other females have to say. Probably worth mentioning here that one of the oft quoted reason for females dumping is that "he doesn't listen to me"; how women define "listening" in this context could fill volumes. This article that CaliGuy mentions is from the female perspective and very valuable to any male who really wants to listen.

Interesting article I just found on Yahoo that would definitely apply to your situation, Confuzd.

 

http://health.yahoo.com/experts/sexu...o-people-cheat

Men generally take the view that if their partner ends up with another man then she's an evil bitch who doesn't care about them and they become bitter. The guys who listen to advice such as that in the article and given by women like Lysne (who have learned to communicate effectively with men ) reach a level of understanding women that is quite amazing and they gain the peace that comes with understanding.

 

I think there are a lot of LS members (mainly, but not exclusively, male) who are not listening to Confuzd. When he receives advice he politely acknowledges it. When some of us feel he hasn't listened we repeat ourselves (sometimes repetitively ). Which of course is unnecessary as Confuzd can go over this thread and re-read the advice given as often as he likes.

 

Confuzd is definitely not angry or upset with any of the posters and appreciates that all of their advice is coming from a position of care and concern. That said, I can understand his frustration with the broken record type lack of acknowledgment that he is listening, evaluating and then rejecting or accepting advice; There is no question that the best placed person to listen and evaluate then reject or accept is the person in the situation.

 

You go Confuzd . I'm with you all the way and betting that the glass is half full and will become totally full in the fullness of time .

[confuzd]

No, honestly these are guys who have been burned in VERY similar situations... now that doesnt preclude things working for you... They just want to protect you from the pain they have experienced.

 

Now, I completely understand the fact that you want this to work... I respect that in a way you cant understand... because when my dad found out about my moms A, he walked. I respect his decision now... but it took time... the point is I have a distinct perspective on what your trying to do... and I really respect it.

 

I see it like this, You've shown her your commitment to change what two months? You have to put down more effort... more time, to prove that you wont break her heart. Yeah, she messed up and spent some time with another guy. Truth is though, the two of you broke up a while back... your both single, basically. You cant hold that against her at this point. So with that in mind you cant treat her like your married.

 

I think you need to show her that you have changed and that the change is permanent. Eventually, that is going to sink into her brain. Maybe, that wont happen until December... or later. The point is this, she wont make that determination on her own.

 

Your going to have to assist her in this. At some point your going to have to tell you "I love you more than anything in this world, I love you more than life. I want us to give this another try, and I will do everything within my power to make sure you do not regret it." At that point if she still holds any love for you, she should be willing to give you that last shot.

 

Dang this is a long post... at least for me.

 

Listen if you need romantic wording or things to say that will melt her heart I can help! More than anyone else here I can help!

 

Thanks,

I agree this will take time, at this point I still have enough energy to go the distance. Thanks for the offer on the words. I don't think I will be using them too much right now but will put them into effect later on as you mentioned when the time is right. I am pretty good with words myself but it is always nice to get some insight and some fresh ideas, so go ahead and give me what you got. I'd love to hear them.

[PWSX3]

I have to become the person she wants to be with, and has always wanted to be with, I have to be the man she wanted me to be, and she begged me to be.

 

Confuzd

 

I'm sorry but I didn't read this from the beginning but I did see this & I have to disagree. You don't want to become someone in order to please someone else, you have to be yourself but that doesn't mean being a a$$.....

 

Your W is in the drivers seat because just like you said if you were then you would be together, but you are in control of your life & that is the only person you do have control over.

 

If you want to change then change for yourself & hopefully that new person will be someone the W wants in her life. I really feel as people get older we all change, we get new hobbies, we get new friends, we do different things because some of them we can't do anymore because of age.

 

Because of these changes I really feel that we can separate & our spouses see us differently now then they did when we first got married.

 

If you truly want to get back together then start with little steps, don't expect it to happen overnight. You posted that she might want to go see a movie, maybe that is a start, maybe she is curious about this new person you say you are becoming.....

 

If things do start moving forward don't expect them to be like they were, you don't want that because it didn't work.

On more then one occasion when me & my W were getting back together she would say; that isn't like you, or that isn't something you would do but I told her that I am changing that I have told myself I did not want to be that old person ever again & that is wasn't for her but for me because no matter what happened to "us" I was going to be a different person because of our separation....

[confuzd]

....and still 100% with you Confuzd. My summary of your situation so far:

• You've cleared the painful, emotional dependency bit and have emerged without bitterness or resentment
  
• You are ready to walk away, move on etc but have chosen not to
  
• You are 100% aware of the implications of any outcome - she may come back, she may not - you're betting she will come back
  
• You have decided that the best advice on LS regarding what's going in your wife's head comes from another female, one of the other members who seem to understand what's happening with the two of you. I am talking, of course, about the wonderful Lysne.

A lot of male members would do well to listen to what Lysne and other females have to say. Probably worth mentioning here that one of the oft quoted reason for females dumping is that "he doesn't listen to me"; how women define "listening" in this context could fill volumes. This article that CaliGuy mentions is from the female perspective and very valuable to any male who really wants to listen.Men generally take the view that if their partner ends up with another man then she's an evil bitch who doesn't care about them and they become bitter. The guys who listen to advice such as that in the article and given by women like Lysne (who have learned to communicate effectively with men ) reach a level of understanding women that is quite amazing and they gain the peace that comes with understanding.

 

I think there are a lot of LS members (mainly, but not exclusively, male) who are not listening to Confuzd. When he receives advice he politely acknowledges it. When some of us feel he hasn't listened we repeat ourselves (sometimes repetitively ). Which of course is unnecessary as Confuzd can go over this thread and re-read the advice given as often as he likes.

 

Confuzd is definitely not angry or upset with any of the posters and appreciates that all of their advice is coming from a position of care and concern. That said, I can understand his frustration with the broken record type lack of acknowledgment that he is listening, evaluating and then rejecting or accepting advice; There is no question that the best placed person to listen and evaluate then reject or accept is the person in the situation.

 

You go Confuzd . I'm with you all the way and betting that the glass is half full and will become totally full in the fullness of time .

 

Thanks YQ,

 

You totally understand me, This must be the way my wife felt for almost nine years when she thought I never understood her, I see how frustrating it is. I also realize how good it feels to know that someone understands you. I will do all I can to show my wife I understand her. I guess even through all ths I am learning lessons. I just learned the value of understanding. Thanks for helping me see that YQ, and to all

 

Confuzd

[confuzd]

UPDATE:

 

Well my wife called after she got off work, and was sweet as pie crust. I returned the favor and spoke very sweet as well. She said she did not feel like a movie but wanted to just hang out at the house. I said that would be fine.

 

So she came over and we started watching a movie, We did not really watch most of it she was talking the whole time (in the past I would've gotten frustrated and reminded her that I was trying to pay attention to the movie) but I could not have cared less about the movie, and she noticed it. I did not cuddle with her or try to kiss or anything. It was just very comfortable conversation, laughing, joking etc. She felt totally unpressured and comfortable (I assume, and hope).

 

The bad part was that she her stomach started cramping and she had an unexpected visit from her favorite Aunt Flow. She was unprepared for the unannounced visit and had to go home, She apologized all the way out the door, and I just kept saying not to worry about it, we can hang out another time.

 

She said how about tomorrow if your not busy, I said that could work. Then she left with a simple hug.

 

She called me on her way home as well just to apologize some more about having to leave, and just to talk about whatever.

 

I ended the conversation first and told her to have a good night.

 

I was not needy, and carried myself very well in front of her. I will admit though it is hard to resist urges when faced with that pressure.

 

There was more talk about her possibly going on the cruise next month.

 

She is worried that if she goes on the cruise with me that I will think that all is okay, and that we are together again.

 

She also said the one thing holding her back is the fact that she is not sure If I can ever forgive her for what she has done, and that i will always hold this over her.

 

I reassured her that I can forgive her but it will take time, I said eventually there will be work on both our parts. She agreed

 

She asked if I thought that her going on a cruise was a good idea, I said I did. I said that the reason for going on the cruise is not to rekindle any love, if it happens great but that is not the reason. I want it to be stress free, just two friends having a great time. I told her that I wasn't even going to let her have sex with me no matter how hard she tried. She just laughed. I basically explained that the point of the cruise was to have fun, relax, escape and nothing more. She liked that idea it seems.

 

we may hang out tonight since it was cut short last night, I will continue to be cool, and will handle this as if I was dating a new woman, no expectations.

[confuzd]

I'm sorry but I didn't read this from the beginning but I did see this & I have to disagree. You don't want to become someone in order to please someone else, you have to be yourself but that doesn't mean being a a$$.....

 

your right, I look back and I don't like the person I was, it is definitely for me.

 

Your W is in the drivers seat because just like you said if you were then you would be together, but you are in control of your life & that is the only person you do have control over.

 

If you want to change then change for yourself & hopefully that new person will be someone the W wants in her life. I really feel as people get older we all change, we get new hobbies, we get new friends, we do different things because some of them we can't do anymore because of age.

Yeah my wife was upset about the motorcyle at first, she ranted and raved until I told her I already bought it. She then started telling me how much she disagreed etc. Just yesterday she actually started asking what color it was and all that. I guess she realized Im gonna do what I want to do when it comes to certain things, and am truly doing things to make myself happy.

 

She actually said that me getting a bike is going to make her worry, and that she doesnt deserve to worry anymore, she said that it seems like I should be focusing on her and not on getting a bike (this was all a few days ago before she started to accept it).

 

I acknowledged her concerned and explained the reasoning for me purchasing the bike, which by the way will be here next week just in time for memorial day weekend. I reassured her that nothing is more on the forefront of my mind than me and her. She said she is worried about my safety (which I believe) but I also think she is worried about me moving on with my life and having fun with out her. She also knows that motorcycles attract alot of attention from women, which is not my puprose. (really it isnt) I did reassure her and did my best to make her feel comfortable and understood.

 

Because of these changes I really feel that we can separate & our spouses see us differently now then they did when we first got married.

 

If you truly want to get back together then start with little steps, don't expect it to happen overnight. You posted that she might want to go see a movie, maybe that is a start, maybe she is curious about this new person you say you are becoming.....

 

Great, I want her to be as curious as she can be, at least it shows she is interested. I definitely know this will not happen overnight, I guess I don't really want it to be. You are right, the time is needed for changes to be made, as hard as it may be at times I do understand that it is best for both of us.

 

If things do start moving forward don't expect them to be like they were, you don't want that because it didn't work.

 

exactly

 

On more then one occasion when me & my W were getting back together she would say; that isn't like you, or that isn't something you would do but I told her that I am changing that I have told myself I did not want to be that old person ever again & that is wasn't for her but for me because no matter what happened to "us" I was going to be a different person because of our separation....

I have had the very same conversation with my wife, thanks for the insight.

By the way I have seen your name referrenced many times as a post to read, and I apologize for not reading it yet but I will do so, If I am not mistaken you are back with your woman correct?

 

regardless your advice is right on.

[PWSX3]

UPDATE:

we may hang out tonight since it was cut short last night, I will continue to be cool, and will handle this as if I was dating a new woman, no expectations.

You have to look at it as you are dating a new woman & she has to also look at it as dating a new man.

 

When my W moved out I saw that as the end of a chapter in my/our book of life, whatever happened after that was a new chapter & a new beginning.

 

I feel even though maybe your W blames you for everything or the reason she moved out was because of you that she will have to make changes as well. Once you start looking at yourself & you start making changes then that other person will also look different in your eyes.

[confuzd]

I texted my wife today at abou 4pm just to ask if her stomach was feeling better, she texted back and said that it wasn't, so I said I was sorry to hear that and asked if she needed anything, she said no thanks, I then asked if she was just gonna stay in tonight, she said I don't know why do you have plans, I said yeah I was planning on hanging out you, she texted back that she was feeling depressed as alway and needed to be alone (she has my son with her). I said I understand and that i hope she feels better.

 

Well an hour after that she calls me three times, and I didn't answer because I didn't hear the phone. When I called her back she was a little bothered that I didn't answer, that used to be a problem with her that I would sometimes not answer her if she called, she felt like she was not important enough and I was just ignoring her calls.

 

I apologized and then we talked a bit, she had alot on her mind and was clearly depressed. She was talking about how she will cry at the drop of a hat, and I started laughing and said that I kind of felt the same way, and that I needed to get a grip something must be wrong with me. She said why do you say that, its good to show emotion, thats something you have never done before.

 

I asked "oh really do you like an emotional man" she said " to a degree, it shows that you are a human, you never used to show emotion, there is nothing wrong with that,if it is appropriate, I don't want a man to cry all the time but it can be attractive when a man can cry" I said "well I guess your right, I have been feeling kinda emotional lately"

 

Then the conversation turned to what she first found attractive about me, and she said that she was always attracted, to my confidence, my independence, and the way I carried myself. I said "it seems as if the things you loved about me are the very things that you despise" She then said "yeah, because you didn't treat me right, If you had treated me right I would not have considered these traits to be negative" she said "you would treat me as if you didn't need me, that everything I did was not good enough, and that you were better than me"

 

I acknowledged her feeling, and apologized. I explained that I always thought very highly of her and that I always felt she had so much more potential and that she was worth so much more than she gave herself credit for, I was too stupid to realize that to her that meant that she was not good enough, although that is not what I meant.

 

She vented alot about my past mistakes, and I acknowledged everything she said, I also told her that she hurt me as well, and that she needs to realize that also.

 

She then talked about her relationship with her supervisor (female). She said that she was very nice, funny, and understanding. She has not had goodluck with supervisors. Her supervisor is being transferred to another dept in the Dental Clinic that she works in and will no longer be her supervisor. She told me that they went to lunch together and that she was very understanding and good to talk too.

 

I asked if she knew of our situation, and she said yes she knows that we are separated that's about it. I asked what advice she offered. My wife told me that she offered some good advice. Her supervisor told her that she needs to make sure she is making the right decision, and that she should not move on until she feels that she did everything she could to make it work. Her supervisor said that her daugher questions her today about her father that she never knew, and told my wife that there will come a day when she will have to answer my son's questions and that she will not want that day to come and know that she did not do all she could to save our marriage.

 

I told her that I totally understood, and I gave her my experience as a child and that I still hold resentment towards my mother for giving up. My mother divorced my father, then my step father, and she then raised me and my brother til I was 12 then we were sent to live with my emotionally unavailable, alcoholic father, and his dysfunctional girlfriend and her three kids for the rest of our childhood. I still hold resentment to this day towards my mother. I vowed never to do that to my son, and I make it a priority to let him know that he is my world and has a father who is there for him always.

 

I then told her that there are certain situations where it is better that the child not be in the same household with both parents, but that most times that is not the case. I told her I understood that she was hurting for so long and went in to self preservation mode, and had to look out for herself, and that I didn't blame her.

 

I said that she shouldn't remain married just for our son's sake, I said but I don't think that's the case because I still love you, and I believe you still love me too.

 

We then took the conversation to a much lighter note, and I also asked if she would be willing to go to a good marriage counselor outside of the military, she said yes she would.

 

So that was that, Thank god that she has some influential people in her life also telling her to work on her marriage.

 

So now begins my search to start interviewing marriage counselors, I will find one that is pro marriage, and is goal oriented.

 

Confuzd.

[CaliGuy]

We then took the conversation to a much lighter note, and I also asked if she would be willing to go to a good marriage counselor outside of the military, she said yes she would.

 

Good job. That's a huge step for you and for her. Going to a marriage counselor will definitely help a lot.

 

Cheers.

[CaliGuy]

So what's the update, Confuzd?

[confuzd]

I have been doing good but a few days ago something just got to me and I let some negativity slip in, and boy did it get in, I was thinking about her seeing this other man, and I just bothered the shi@ out of me. My whole goal was to be patient, and if it was still going on to just let it die out. but I just had to know so I drove by her place and her car wasn't there I just automatically assumed she was with the other man (which she may have been) and I left her a message on the answering machine. I am disappointed in myself for this, it is really hard to even take my own advice when you let your mind sway from your goals, and starting thinking negatively. this is the messae I left.

 

 

"I just wanted to call and tell you that I love you, and that all the changes that I have made were sincere and were for me. I said it is obvious to me that being with this guy is worth more to you than your family and career, I guess he is that important to you, Im not gonna try to stop you, I really hope you enjoy the rest of your night with him, you have obviously made your decision."

 

That was it. at 530 am I get a call she called me 9 times and I ignored every call. she left two messages, .

 

the first one said "I don't know what kind of message you left me, but I don't know what you are talking about, You are just driving yourself crazy, this is the reason why we won't work out because you will never be able to let it go, I don't know what you are talking about"

 

the second message was "how can you call me and leave a crazy message like that and then not answer your phone, that's why I didn't call you back when I got the message because I would've been so irate I probably would've come over to your house and yelled at you."

 

I finally answered her call and she told me that her friend was deploying to iraq, and that she invited her to have some drinks, I don't really beleive it but that's not the point. I just accept it, when a spouse is in this state of mind they will say anything and I take it with a grain of salt.

 

I was very emotionless the whole conversation, and she asked if I was trying to say it was over, and that I didn't realize just how close I was to her wanting to reconcile. I told her that it has never been over for me.

 

the conversation just kind of ended with her saying that I jumped to conclusions and was wrong for spying (which I was).

 

that night I texted her,

 

"It has never been over for me, like I said before you are worth the pain, we all have a breaking point and I don't want to reach mine, you deserve undying love and that is what Im giving you, it just gets hard and dismal at times especially when walking this path alone in the dark, I don't know where I am getting the strength must be god, I think him for keeping me strong and reminding me how special you are"

 

I sent that text and then she calls immediately, she was noticably sad and was not saying much, she kept asking me what I was thinking, I just said I felt like god was testing my strength and patience. I told her I didn't want to hurt anymore, "she quickly said what are you trying to say" she seems to get bothered if I act as if I am giving up on her. I said I am just saying I am tired of being hurt there is no other meaning that. she said "I don't want to hurt either, do you think this is easy for me" I said "no, I don't want you to hurt either, I don't want our son to hurt anymore, I don't want anyone to hurt anymore, and we don't have too" She just stayed quiet then asked again what I was thinking, I asked if she still wanted to go to counseling she said "when" I said "we can do it on a weekend "and she said she would rather do it on a weekday. there was a little more silence and she said she was gonna get off.

 

she called at about 830pm the same night she asked where our son was, and I said right here and I handed him the phone, after she got through talking to him she said to me why did you just throw him the phone, I said I didn't I just thought you called to say goodnight to him, she said yeah but it was rude how you just threw him the phone, I said "sorry I didn't mean it to be" she just said alright and got off the phone,

 

about fifteen minutes later, I call to apologize for my rudeness, and she didn't answer because she was on the other line (her phone makes a weird chirp when she is on the other line) So I called two more times and she doesnt pick up.

 

about 30 minutes later she calls and says she was on the phone with her dad.

 

a little bit of history, my wife has alot of resentment towards her dad and a lot of her depression stems from his absence in her life. She has not spoken to her dad in a long time and said she wrote him off a while back.

 

I asked why she called and she said "it was long overdue" I asked if everything was okay and she said "yeah", she said she was talking about her current situation, so I asked what he said.

 

I did not like the answer but oh well, he told her that she should've left me along time ago, this coming from a deadbeat father.

 

her father doesn't really know me or the person I am, all he know is what that I have hurt his daughter so expectedly this is the advice of a father.

 

I asked if she wanted to leave me now, she said "I didn't say that" I said "it sucks that no one is on my side" she said "what do you expect a father to say" I told her I understood. I then apologized if I was rude earlier and she said "no problem" the conversation went on a little longer and it was good

 

Ithe next day I texted a nice text "thank you for being understanding of me, I know I make mistakes but you have not written me off, this shows how strong you are, and that you have a great mind" I have read the five love languages, and words of affirmation , and quality time are my wifes primary languages.

 

she immediately called me after getting the text and we talked a bit while she was on her lunch break, I gave her some very nice compliments, and she appreciated them. after the backslides I have to always get back on track.

 

yesterday night we had some really good conversation, she calle about 6 to talk to my son and after we started making nice friendly conversation, it slowly turned in to recalling times we spent when we first met.

 

She asked If I remembered certain times when we were in technical school together, I remembered each event vividly.

 

I told her the things I love about her and how she is more beautiful now then she was when we first met (which she is, it is really truly amazing) I told her how I missed her but not in a needy way.

 

all in all the conversation went well.

 

she called my son later that night again to say goodnight, before she got off she told him to tell me goodnight, (she used to not do that, she wouldn't even acknowledge me)

 

just hanging in there, not calling her, staying busy.

 

 

UPDATE:

god brings people in our life for a reason, today I had an appt with a dentist who wants to join the Air Force, and she tells me of her pending divorce with her husband, I ask when it will be final and she tells me she doesn't know so of course I get interested and ask if she wants the divorce,

 

she says no she wants to save her marriage, so we start to conversate, and I offer some advice to her and she offers advice as well, she tells me of some organizations she is involved in that are focused on saving marriages. she tell me of one of her friends whose wife left for three years then came back, and the founder of the organization who left his wife remarried and then for no apparent reason returned to his family. It was very encouraging (don't know if I will be willing to wait three years, hell I don't know if I will be able to wait six months).

 

I also read a great story of a man in situation similar to mine but even worse, reunited with a wife that left him and are now stronger than ever. let me know if you want the link I can provide it.

 

anyways, from what I have read my situation is very common (that doesn't make it hurt less) and actually the signs I am getting are happening alot quicker than in many other situations, they didn't start getting these signs until about 6 months outs.

 

Im just trying to stay strong, do my own thing and be there for my wife with love, I do believe one day she will wake up and see that I was the only solid thing in her life through out a time when she was in a worldwind.

 

this is what most spouses say when they come back.

 

So for now just trying to keep hope alive, praying more, and getting a life.

[frd150]

Hey Confuzed,

 

I also read the book after recomendations from several people. The quality time part also applies to my ex. I actually had tears in my eyes as I was reading it. I gave a copy to her but I doubt she even took the time.

 

Ive also read the books caliguy recomended. They were also helpful in helping me understand things better.

 

Keep fighting the good fight

[confuzd]

Hey Confuzed,

 

I also read the book after recomendations from several people. The quality time part also applies to my ex. I actually had tears in my eyes as I was reading it. I gave a copy to her but I doubt she even took the time.

sorry to hear that you have been going at this longer than I, stay strong.

 

Keep fighting the good fight

indeed

 

UPDATE:

things have been pretty uneventful, we have been talking on the phone almost everyday, she initiates. the conversations have been going well, I have even starting flirting a little bit, and it has not been met with any rejection. She came over today to pick up my son it is her week with her, and she looked so damn gorgeous, I could not control myself. I grabbed her and gave her a hug and told her how nice she looked. We went downstairs and she asked to see my bike,

 

I just got it yesterday, so I took her in the garage, and she looked and just kind of shook her head, I told her to get on and she got on, (man she looked sexy on that thing) then I got on and she got on behind me and just grabbed me real tight and was like "this is how I would be holding on" I had no qualms with that whatsoever, although it might be hard to ride with her holding on so tight.

 

She got off and we were in the garage together and I pulled her over to me and kissed her, she was a little hesitant but it was nice, I just held her against my body and kind of fell into her eyes.

 

we left the garage and hung out in the kitchen, just shooting the breeze, I held her some more and gave her some more kisses, she was embarrassed at how I was so into her. She made many comments about me and my bike, as if she did not want me riding, she also said that she was not going to put up with me going out on my bike all the time.

 

Sounds like future talk to me, I told her that i am just passing the time, and that when we get back together my attention will be totally on her. I walked her out to the door, and I hugged her some more, and again on the front porch, she was driving me crazy, I've never seen a pair of jeans fit a behind that nice ever in my life. I told her that her jeans looked really good on her she smiled and said thanks.

 

after I finished flirting, I told my son to go upstairs real quick, while we were alone I got serious and told her how I felt, and that I truly loved her. She looked at me and said do you really, and I said yes I do, she just shook her head and I said whats wrong, she replied that she didn't feel that anyone would treat her the way she wanted to be treated and that maybe she asks for too much.

 

I told her that she didn't want too much, and that she wants what every woman wants, but that most men let their ego's get in the way. I told her that I was no different, I said that we live in a society where men are ridiculed by their friends if they seem to be catering to a woman, I told her the days of me caring about that and letting my ego get in the way are over.

 

I said that I want to give her everything she wants, and that I know in return she will give me everything I want, she said that she wasn't sure I was telling the truth. I kissed her again a few more times very nice and passionate, but no tongue.

 

she told me to be safe on my bike, I said okay, and she said I am serious be careful. Then she left.

 

Now I can't get her out of my head, she honestly is the most beautiful woman to me, and I was a fool to ever take her for granted.

 

I sense that things may not be going so well with other man. I'll try not to focus on that and stay the course. I did ask her though that it seems as if she is giving up on me, even though it didn't seem like that at all to me, and she said no she isn't giving up on me.

 

I don't know what more I can ask for at this moment, (except that I love you and want to come home) I have to be thankful for the progress, and be patient so she can make the choice on her own.

 

She also mentioned how I took her picture down, It has been down for months, so why now is she bothered by it. Weird.

 

she seems to be getting more bothered by my actions, such as going out, taking her picture down, etc.

 

Oh well I will stay focused and continue down the path I am on.

 

take it easy

confuzd.

[confuzd]

Yesterday was a good day i guess aside from her blow up,

 

I called about noon to talk to my son, and they were both at the mall taking some pictures, they were getting some black and white ones done, I said I bet they will look nice just not as nice as they would with me in them, She said nope they would look better with you in them.

 

then she mentioned something about my text to her last night, (I forgot to mention, I went out last night, got a little tipsy and sent her a love dovey text, yeah I was not in my right mind) so she asked why I texted her at 245 am, and I said I was just drunk dialing and that I apologized.

 

she said you sure are going to the club alot, she said you don't see me going out all the time, I said that's because you have other stuff to occupy your time (big mistake). She got a little bothered and just said she was gonna get off.

 

I call her back to apologize 10 mins later and she was cool again she acted like the comment didn't even bother her, and we start to joke about some other stuff, Then I ask her to drop off a $400 check for her car payment that I still pay.

 

This is where the **** hit the fan, She claimed she didn't know it was due the first, and that I don't consult with her, I always do this to her and what does she expect me to do, she doesnt have enough money for that, and on and on and on. I said I understand but money is tight for me too, and I thought you knew your car payment was due on the first since you paid me last month on the first (I was not being a smartass). She just was very heated, and said why do I even expect you to care about me.

 

did you even consider my finances, you are not broke you just bought a motorcycle, she went on and on for a bit about the motorcycle as well. I then had enough and told her that it was messed up the way she was treating me, I said "all I have been doing is showing you that I care, one day you will realize that I did care, don't worry about the payment just give it to me on the fifteenth I will work something out," she said "you don't have too" I said "I know I don't but I do it because I care something you cant seem to understand, I don't have to do anything for you but I do, If I didn't care I would not even be having this discussion with you, you can say all this hurtful stuff to me, after all I've done thats really messed up" she then said "I'm sorry I'm just really stressed right now" I said "don't worry about it, I understand your stressed, I try not to take it personal because I know your going through alot but it still hurts" she said "Im sorry" then I told her to relax and I got off the phone.

 

she calls back 15 mins later, and says "I am really sorry, I had no right to talk to you that way, I do see that you are trying to help me and I really appreciate it" I said "Im glad you see it, and I understand you are going through alot" she apologized some more then started talking about the pictures she took and how I would really like them.

 

I ended the converstion short again, 15 mins later she calls me again from her house phone. The funny thing here is that I was never given her house phone up until a few days ago, and now that she seems to be more interested in me and my activites I all of the sudden am given her house number. I think that previously she didn't want me to be able to know if she was home or not, but now she seems not to care. Im sort of thinking the other guy must've lost his sheen and perfectness or has had enough.

 

the comment she made the other day about noone ever treating her the way she wants, kind of hints to that.

 

anyways I talk to her again for a bit and the conversation goes very well. and I end it again. My son calls that night to say goodnight, I think my wife told him to call because he never decides to call on his own (spongebob is way too important to him) but then I talked to her and she was very down.

 

Her moods fluctuate greatly this mornign she was chipper, then she was irate, then she was depressed. I just made some small talk and ended the call again.

 

then I texted her that night because Iwanted to cheer her up "I care about you deeply and I hate to see you sad, you are a special woman, I can't express that enough im here for you always, I will be your rock"

 

she texted back, "thanks 4 carin its just hard for me 2 accept"

 

I text back " yeah I know I just hope you want to accept it"

 

she replied "I do"

I replied "good because I cant stop caring about you, I will always care about you"

 

she replied "its just hard for me to believe"

 

I said "I understand, I would feel the same way if I were you, I love you for who you are not who you or anyone thinks you should be"

 

that was the last of those types of texts,

later I text her to turn the channel because a performer was perfoming that she liked, she commented back and we had some fun light conversation about the show.

 

pretty emotional day, something is definitely churning in her head, just not quite sure what yet.

 

til next time.

 

confuzd.

[Mike1966]

Hey confuzed,

 

I just took some time to catch up on your thread, you're hangin' tough, my friend. The time I've taken away from the forum has been good and my prospective now is likely more as yours is.

Be patient, be the man you know you are and you know your wife will come back to......................at the same time, be emotionally tough enough to realize that the big things in life are out of our control and that your wife has her own choices to make on whether or not it works.

 

I'm proud of you the way you've hung in there and no matter what the outcome with you and your wife, you can look back and be proud of yourself. I hope I can say the same for me whether or not my wife and I stay married.

 

Keep me posted.

[jmargel]

It is exactly about that battle.

 

His wife is not going to be willing to commit to their marriage after being detached for so long unless she knows things will be different.. That HE is different. That is going to take time to show her. He's been slipping up a little here and there. She doesn't know if the changes he made are going to stick or, if she does commit, that he'll just revert right back to the way he was.

 

She wants to be reassured in a way that he can't just give her. Only time can give her that.

 

I've read stories about couples who have divorced, married other people, divoced them and then married each other again. They've remained married for far longer than they had before. If that can happen, then there is still a chance (even if so slim that it needs to be viewed under a microscope) that this marriage can be saved.

 

If he does that then it doesn't matter what she figures out she wants.

 

Sure, it'll be much harder on him to cope with what was lost if he continues, but at least he'll be able to look back and know that he put in the effort and it still didn't work.

 

How many look back and are just full of regret for 'Shoulda done this' and 'wish I'd tried that' thoughts.. Thinking that there was something else they could have tried.

 

I've been on vacation last week so I didn't get a chance to respond to any posts.

 

His wife is not going to be willing to commit to their marriage after being detached for so long unless she knows things will be different.. That HE is different. That is going to take time to show her. He's been slipping up a little here and there. She doesn't know if the changes he made are going to stick or, if she does commit, that he'll just revert right back to the way he was.

 

What BS. This is *not* about him changing, it's about her cheating. As she cheated on him she continued to lay blanket statements on him, it's a very well known tactic that cheaters use. They use it to defuse from facing the consequences of their actions and also try to justify it in their messed up heads on why it's ok to cheat.

 

She is the one who should be PROVING to him that she is trustworthy. She continues to play this game with him and he is allowing it. A couple of others, along with myself have pointed it out to him on her tactics and why she is doing this. He refuses to see the truth and continues to allow himself to be blinded by her games.

 

I've read stories about couples who have divorced, married other people, divoced them and then married each other again. They've remained married for far longer than they had before. If that can happen, then there is still a chance (even if so slim that it needs to be viewed under a microscope) that this marriage can be saved.

 

The percentage that a couple has once they remarried each other a second time is extremely low. Too much taint, betrayal, resentment and issues come into play.

 

Sure, it'll be much harder on him to cope with what was lost if he continues, but at least he'll be able to look back and know that he put in the effort and it still didn't work.

 

How many look back and are just full of regret for 'Shoulda done this' and 'wish I'd tried that' thoughts.. Thinking that there was something else they could have tried.

 

And there once was a very wise man by the name of Albert Einstein who said 'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results'. That's what he is doing and that is what he is getting. The run-around. However his lack of making the decision to move ahead with his life will eventually catch upto him when his wife gets tired of stringing him along and then just ditches him. He will then come on here and ask why did she do this when he *thought* things were getting better.

 

And it's because of her attitude, immaturity and selfishness. It is also about his lack of respect towards himself and when you tolerate such abuse that is what you will continue to get. Women love confidence, that's one of the things they adore about us males. He's not showing any of it, he's rolling over and piddling. Confidence is standing upto someone without the use of fear. Stand up for yourself already man!

 

As long as you continue to chase her she will keep pulling that string. It's time for her to face the consequences of her cheating. She's just given you reasons and excuses on why she's done it. IMO I still think she is testing the waters with that guy or another man.

 

PS. I just read your post about the car payment. Once again you fold under pressure and you end up apologizing for something that wasn't your fault. You coddle her and treat her like your teenage daughter. She KNEW that she had that payment due, she was just expecting you to pay the $400. You should have demanded that money the next day! Not waiting for when she's ready to pay for it. I bet she had no problem finding money to go out and to party it up, huh?

 

Things are not going to change in the long-term because she will not goto counseling and willing to commit to getting this marriage to work. She continues to dance around the situation and the issues that are at hand. Do you honestly see yourself with her in 5 to 10 years? You honestly think once you emotionally drain yourself just to get her to move back in with you that she will stay forever? Relationships are not about this, you are trying to win her over but somewhere I believe you know deep in your heart that this is not going to work out unless major turnarounds happen.

 

IMO you should tell her to get counseling and to get her attitude straightened out and only then will you consider continuing the marriage with her. Just walk away. Trust me, if she wants to be with you she will 'see the light' and start making these changes on her own.