will my wife ever come back to me

[confuzd]

Lysne your post is just amazing, I have to say through all my reading on love shack that this is probably the best advice I have ever seen written. I say this for many reasons.

You have not only told me what I have done wrong but you have told me why it is wrong, You have really let me into the female psyche. I am willing to bet your ex would give his right Arm, and leg to be able to read this.

You hit on every topic thoroughly, and explained why things are the way they are and what to do to make them better, and why these actions will make them better.

 

I actually printed off your comment and read it several times last night, I also shared it with a friend and said it was almost as if my wife was writing it herself.

 

I noticed that this was your very first post, and I am truly thankful that you took the time to sign up and post on my thread. I hope this was not a one time deal, your input and perspective is truly refreshing, and will be an asset to this website.

 

 

 

Hi Confuzd. I want to commend you for giving your relationship so much care, attention, and yes, love. It sounds as though you may have taken it for granted in the past, but now that you have realized the importance of it to you, you are willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild it and nurture it to its full potential. I am really impressed by your sincerity, and I am sure that your wife would be too if she could only understand how much you truly care (as evidenced by this thread).

Im glad you were able to pick up on the real me. I joke alot because that is my personality (my wife has told me that she loves my silliness), but I can be very serious as well, and yes I am very sincere about my love, and my changes.

 

You have taken responsibility for hurting your wife (you have only alluded to what you have done, but it seems that at the very least you slowly eroded her faith and perhaps some of her love for you through impatience, neglect, and maybe double standards regarding levels of commitment). This and a true commitment to changing are the keys to having that “fairytale” relationship you have discussed, and because you seems to have a clear and very mature perspective on your mistakes and faults, I believe you have every chance of winning her back and rebuilding a great relationship. However, you do seem to be unfortunately a bit “confuzd” about exactly how to go about doing that.

 

Well it was the basic stuff I guess, No beating, drinking, or verbal abuse, just lack of attention to detail, communication, acknowledgement or making her feel important, and truly loved. It's great to hear that someone beleives this will all work out, and yes I am still confuzd.

 

What you wife needs more than anything is to believe in your sincerity, your love, and your commitment to her. It is your job to help her believe that. She clearly loves you still, but after more than 9 years of getting half-hearted commitment on your part, more than anything she is afraid that you haven’t really changed and will revert to your old self as soon as you feel secure again that you will not lose her. She moved out because she wanted to find out whether you really care, and frankly, what you are willing to do to win her back (though she probably wouldn’t admit this to herself). Don’t listen to all the naysayers on this thread who are projecting their own experiences and saying that she just wants to manipulate you or control you. If she as kind-hearted, giving, and honest as you say she is (and she must be or you wouldn’t care so much), then that isn’t the reason. The only thing she wants – and desperately wants as far as I can see – is for you to prove commitment to changing your relationship for the better, so that she feels secure in your love for her and in your mutual future together.

it really makes sense, reading this

 

As a woman in your wife’s position, this is the most important thing I can tell you. The entire concept of “space” is a huge fallacy and the source of many of your problems in your efforts to rebuild your relationship. Your wife does NOT want space. What she really wants when she says that is does not want to deal with your neediness.

 

this just blew me away, but I know it's true, she gets upset if I stop trying, I thought that my trying was pushing her away, but it was that I wanted something in return that was doing all the shoving. That statement was a real eye opener. Truly insightful

 

She needs to know that you are strong enough and love her enough to give her 100% unconditional support, even if she doesn’t reciprocate. “Space” is just a way of saying that she is finished giving for now, and she needs to know whether you are capable of giving her what she needs without reciprocation for the time being. Because what she’s really afraid of is that you have become used to receiving her love and support, and it is really your own needs and fragility that are driving you to want her back, not true love for her. This is a crucial question in her mind right now.

 

you are so right.

 

You should not be “respecting” her space. You should not be “dating.” You should not be playing games with text messages and phone calls – pick up the phone and CALL HER. Often and without reservation. Do not be afraid of her reaction, and if you are afraid of it, be upfront about it and tell her. So call, but don’t call because you want to be reassured or because you need something from her. (She will give you that more often and more intensely than you can even imagine the minute her concerns are resolved and she feels totally safe.) Instead, let her know directly that you want to communicate for purpose of letting her know how much you care and miss her, and that you understand her position and you don’t need anything back from her right now. And don’t EVER fish for those things from her. Occasionally she might lose her temper a bit because you may trigger some resentment she has, but be patient and reassuring. That patience will make her confidence in you and her love for you grow. (Her guilt will probably result in opening up and positive feedback as well.)

Understood

 

You should not propose to be “dating” her. You should not be waiting until mid-August to ask if you can begin anew. For you, anew begins NOW because you love her and are confident that you can be everything that she needs. You need to communicate to her that as far as you are concerned, you are her loving husband right now and always, and you will be there for her every minute and every day until she believes you and is comfortable and safe enough to come home. There is no wait and see. YOU know how much you care and have changed, and you will dedicate yourself to helping her understand and believe that for as long as it takes. (Of course you should take her out on proper dates as you have proposed, but let her know that you consider yourself married to her because she is the only woman for you and you will not forsake those vows.)

okay, I realize that me trying to put a date on it was just another act of being "needy". I am following you 100%

 

Stop giving your wife mixed signals. She needs consistency from you, and you need that too. Don’t run hot and cold – just communicate to her the truth about how you feel (again holding back on your needs for now). This emotional honesty is the only thing that can a) get through to her, b) open her up, and c) set the foundation for a great relationship in the future based on meeting one another’s needs. Your wife is giving you every possible encouragement, frankly. That is what she really wants – a future in which you both meet one another’s needs. Even now, even though you probably don’t always see it, she never totally shuts you down, even when you are triggering some resentment or anger, because she doesn’t truly want to close the door on your. Far from it, it seems that she wants to encourage you to continue communicating, and to continue being the new, sensitive and understanding guy that you have become.

all I can say is you are so right

 

Stay that way and she will begin to trust you and love you more than you knew was possible. When the time comes, you probably won’t need to prompt her to understand what are the mistakes she has made in the relationship – she will be the one to bring it up, to shed tears over her own faults, and to commit herself to changing herself for the better too. If you lead, she will follow. She will also gain deep admiration and respect for you and your wisdom and compassion in this time. And you will become closer than you have ever been. Please don’t listen to the people on here that protest that you are setting yourself up to be a “doormat.” If you know that your wife is truly a good person, generous and compassionate, you can bring out the very best in her by bringing out the very best in yourself. You CAN achieve that fairytale relationship. Have courage and check your pride at the door.

 

Pride has just been checked at the door (I just hope someone doesn't run off with it). I must admit, I am not a follower, I have a tendency to do things my way even though it may not be the status quo, but when all you hear is your being a door mat, it does start to make you think "maybe their right" Thanks for the reassurance.

 

Here is what you can do to turn things around a bit. You have gotten off-track in recent weeks, I think. Start with the emotional honesty that I mentioned, and begin telling your wife how you really and truly envision your future together. Tell her what kind of man and father you want to be. Tell her your dreams about being together on the day your son graduates and the feeling of pride you imagine you will share. Tell her if you dream about having any other children with her, and how you feel inside when you think about her being pregnant with another child of yours. Tell her about your dream vacation as a family, and include whatever intimate details you really wish: holding hands together on a warm night on the beach, or cuddling together in a cabin while you can hear birds in the jungle. Tell her that you regret you never had a real wedding celebration, and detail some specific ideas of how you imagine putting on one in the near future. Tell her all the things that you never expressed to her in the past – specific times your remember that your heart was really full, or that she was so beautiful she took your breath away. Tell her how you knew she was the one, and any specific times since that really reaffirmed how you felt. Don’t make things up, don’t be cheesy – just be truthful and you will be amazed at how liberating it is. If she feels any pressure to reciprocate those feelings and you can sense that she isn’t ready, just be very gentle and tell her you know that when the times comes she will be ready to tell you how she feels too

I plan on doing this tonight

 

On the other side of things, you also need to make her feel safe and encourage her to tell you immediately and whenever she is feeling bad or depressed about something with regards to your past. This is much more often that you know. She probably gets obsessed with particular details or times that she felt deeply hurt but has never felt able to tell you. You need to understand that these are the things that built up to the point that she finally left, and believe me when I say that they will never go away until she feels free enough and secure enough to tell you. You must handle it, and take that pain and express true remorse for it. Probably many times. (There will be a day that she will also feel the full weight of remorse for things she has done to you, and you can also communicate your anger and hurt to her when she is ready. That will of course be equally important.) Encourage her to call you and get it out, no matter how angry or depressed she is. If she learns to open up, you will become exhausted dealing with it, I guarantee you – but it is essential to recovery. You must keep your cool, accept responsibility, and express true remorse.

 

will do

 

From this you will also find out what things trigger negative emotions for her. I sense from your post that going out with your friend that night to a bar, or letting her believe you could have, is a big trigger. I can’t tell you how many times I told my husband I had a “bad dream” about something, but what really happened was he did something and I got a rotten feeling that was triggered by past experiences and negative associations. “Going out on the town” is a pretty common one. If this is a big issue for her, you need to tell her you won’t go out to bars anymore with her and mean it. Period. Same for any other triggers you discover. Some people here will protest that you don’t need to sacrifice your whole life or individuality for a relationship, and that true – but you do when you need to reestablish love and trust in a relationship that is already broken because of those very things. In this particular example, I think the solution is pretty simple. You yourself get a bit crazy when you think of her going out with her friends and potentially getting with other guys – same for her. So simply offer to stop doing that kind of thing: mean it, be consistent, and don’t do it. (I don’t get the impression you really enjoy that kind of lifestyle without your wife anyway.) Call as necessary to back up your promise with proof. It’s amazing how these simple gestures can address fears, rebuild trust, and bring you closer together just by making small sacrifices for each other. Good relationship are not selfish, and to some extent they take responsibility for one another’s happiness whenever possible and reasonable.

I can do this too, my wife would always tell me. "it's not that you go out, I have no problem with you going out, it's that you don't make me comfortable, you don't take the time to reassure me that your not out there doing bad things" I never felt like I had too, I thought she was just trying to control me. I see things clearer now. Thanks.

 

A recurring issue in your posts is sex. This is a big one, and I think you need the woman’s perspective so that you understand what is happening when she pulls away or says “don’t push it”.

you have no idea how excited I got when I saw that you were gonna cover this topic for me

 

Women are VERY highly attuned to men’s advances or sexual desires, no matter how small or seemingly innocent. For you, sex is natural and an expression of passion and love if it’s with your partner. You want to have sex in order to express that as a form of communication, and to bring you both closer. You’re not wrong. However, women have a rather deep-seated fear that men will do anything to have sex, including SAYING anything to get it, which they may or may not mean. Therefore women who have multiple unresolved emotional issues with their partner often don’t want to make love until those issues are resolved, so that they know their partner truly cares for them and their needs. Otherwise, they just feel used. There are also fears and resentments mixed in there about men being able to have sex with anyone, therefore putting pressure on a wife to give it, and invalidating the meaning of it, all at the same time. So it can be a very vicious cycle.

again looking back this all just makes sense.

 

This is my suggestion for what to do about it: once you start to see some results with your wife, and you feel that she is receptive to you, I would be very frank and explain how much emotional value it has for you when you make love with her. Tell her that men who really love their partners view and experience sex as a form of powerful communication that solidifies the couple’s bond. (As a woman, I did not understand or even suspect this for the longest time.) Do not tell her this unless you are sure that she is able and ready to listen to you and understand what you are saying! Otherwise you will provoke a very negative reaction based on her interpretation (and fear) that you will just say anything to get into her pants. Timing is key.

Okay, I will wait til I feel the time is right

 

Apologies for the biblical length of this post, Confuzd. I wish you luck. I can tell you that if your case is as I believe it is, that you can make things work and much faster than you think. My husband committed a serious breach of trust and hurt me very deeply; I did not just move out of the house, I moved overseas. I did not think I would ever reconsider, and I didn’t give my husband much hope. However, my husband somehow figured out what to do to communicate his true remorse, love, commitment, and changed attitudes to me. It is a major struggle sometimes for me to believe and trust him after that much pain – at the moment I’m staying overseas until I feel completely secure enough to go back. But he never stops supporting, communicating, caring, or finding ways to show me how committed he is. As much anger and sometimes even hate as I have expressed, his ongoing patience and support have slowly, slowly begun to rebuild my faith in him and my belief that he truly wants to commit to doing anything to make this relationship not just function but thrive. He respects my need for time, my need for proof, and my decision to get away but he never gives me “space,” which if I am honest, is exactly what I needed.

 

Don't apologize I wish it was longer, Im glad that your husband is doing all the right things,

 

I have one question for you.

 

When will you know? When will you feel safe enough to go back? and why do you even want to?

 

thanks again wonderful post

[confuzd]

Alright so I was clearly upset a few days ago, and had a setback. I was having a down day, and made some dumb moves.

 

I was not being understanding to the whole situation and was thinking about my needs.

 

It's weird to hear that I am needy, and clingy because that is so far outside of my personality its not even funny.

I never would've thought that wanting some common courtesy like a "goodmorning to you too" was considered needy and clingy. At times like this the fact that you need anything is considered needy I guess. I just have to come to grips with that and quick.

 

I let yesterday go by the way I initially said, however I did text her around 4pm to tell her to drive home safe because the roads were flooded. she texted back "thanks for caring, I hope you had a good day" This was before I read lysne post.

 

That was all the contact we had, the whole day. After reading the lysne's post and really studying it, I got this deep pit in my stomach like I was messing up.

 

So this morning my wife drops off my son and leaves, I never see her. I text her a little later and say "you don't have to text me back, I just want you to know that I truly love you, and not a minute goes by that I don't think of you" She does text me back though and says "I think about you too, I just don't know what to do" then I text her back and say "last night I turned off the t.v, and the light and I really thought about alot"

she texts back "what about" I don't reply quick enough for her and she calls. I tell her that I would like just 20 mins of her time to tell her. she asks why It needs to be in person, and I tell her because it is more personal that way. She agreed.

 

Tonight I will follow lysne advice to the T. I will tell her that I don't need anything from her, and that I just want to give unconditionally the way she did our whole relationship, Etc.

 

I'm pretty hopeful, My wife has no idea what I'm going to tell her she probably thinks I'm going to tell her I have had enough and am moving on. Tonight I am going to get it all out in the open and I will not require one bit of comfort, understanding, or anything from her

 

talk to ya later.

[frd150]

Hey confuzed,

 

Wow. I just read through all that (you know what i mean) twice and i plan to do it again.

 

Thanks for breaking it down like you did. Thanks to you lynse.

 

I am following this very closley.

[lysne]

Not a problem, I'm glad to help. I will answer your questions about my own situation and when/how I will decide go back a little later on, because I need to think about that a little bit myself, and because I think a careful answer could help with your situation too.

 

In the meantime however, I just wanted to send you off to your meeting with your wife with an important warning. As you mentioned, you have had some setbacks recently that will have made your wife a bit wary and guarded in terms of being receptive to you saying all the "right" things to her. By coming to her with this change of heart, she may think that you are just feeding her lines you got from somewhere, which could trigger something and make her sad or even upset. Ie, what, NOW you care? Sometimes when we have been longing for something for so long, when it happens we are skeptical that it's true and a defense mechanism kicks in where anger or anxiety protect against further hurt or disappointment.

 

If this happens, don't panic, and don't be deterred. Just acknowledge that you understand that it will be hard for her to believe you and accept this from you after so many years of disappointment. Tell her you know it will take time and proof for her to believe you, but you have all the time in the world to show her because you are committed to giving it to her now and always. And then you have to follow through. Never forget you are playing for the long term and this is what she needs.

 

For me, I got pissed off many times that my husband started telling me of his unconditional commitment, love, and concern for my needs. It was out of hurt for previous wrongs, and also fear that I could start to believe him and then what if I were hurt again later? I think it was also a bit of a test -- ie, yes, you love me now, but what if I'm angry -- then will you still love me? So you have to be prepared for this from your wife at any time. Even if it goes well tonight, she could sleep on all the things you've said and wake up feeling that way tomorrow. Root out the anxiety as it starts by being in constant (non-needy) contact with her.

 

If she does get cranky, depressed, or angry, this is a very good opportunity for you to prove you mean what you say. Gently press her to tell you exactly why she's feeling bad, ask probing questions, and don't give up until she really tells you. She doesn't believe that you can handle it, even though she needs to know that you can. Show her you can. This is actually a VERY healthy process, which you need to encourage. Don't get discouraged yourself because it has a lot of important implications. If she begins to openly tell you when and why she's upset (especially when it is paradoxically CAUSED by your sweetness and attentiveness), then she will know that it's ok to be open and vulnerable with you and you will not emotionally abandon her. At the same time, YOU will feel like a stronger and better person yourself for being able to control your reflexes and to act so unselfishly. I think you find that your own confidence and sense of self grow too.

 

Take care Confuzd, I know you'll do fine!

 

(PS - So does your wife deep down. That's why she still hangs on!)

[Yernasia Quorelios]

Lysne your post is just amazing, I have to say through all my reading on love shack that this is probably the best advice I have ever seen written.

Agreed...awesome post and follow ups. Anybody who is wondering what their ex (male or female) is up to when they seem to keep finding excuses for staying in touch should read and study Lysne posts - even those in complicated situations such as where third parties are involved .

 

One tiny bit of concern I have with the posts is that there is an element of walking on eggshells in the advice which I'm not sure is healthy. I guess this is where counselors earn their crust by helping couples to navigate through dealing with conflict and trust issues. That is, of course, when both parties want to resolve things . I never cease to be amazed that no matter how often we as human beings experience and recover from emotional trauma we believe that next time it happens we won't be able to handle it .

[lysne]

Agreed...awesome post and follow ups. Anybody who is wondering what their ex (male or female) is up to when they seem to keep finding excuses for staying in touch should read and study Lysne posts - even those in complicated situations such as where third parties are involved .

 

Yes, I think that you need to be sure that your ex or SO is coming from the same place that I am, however, for this to be applicable. In my case I really love my husband and what I want deep down more than anything is to get back with him. (Although until I started to feel better, thanks to his efforts, I didn't admit this to friends or even to myself.) We would be together if there hadn't been a serious violation of our vows; equally, I can see that Confuzd and his wife would be together if he hadn't disregarded her feelings for so long. If your SO left you because he/she "just wasn't that into you" then this advice is not for you. I can only provide the perspective of a woman that felt driven out of a committed relationship by bad behavior. At the same time though, I think a lot of what I have to say is fairly applicable to improving ANY relationship just through a policy of always giving your partner what they really need without reservation - usually love, intimacy, and security.

 

 

One tiny bit of concern I have with the posts is that there is an element of walking on eggshells in the advice which I'm not sure is healthy. I guess this is where counselors earn their crust by helping couples to navigate through dealing with conflict and trust issues. That is, of course, when both parties want to resolve things . I never cease to be amazed that no matter how often we as human beings experience and recover from emotional trauma we believe that next time it happens we won't be able to handle it .

 

I can see where you got that concern. At the same time, I think that if you go back and read my original post, what I am really advocating is fairly radical courage. Walking on eggshells is exactly what won't work to bring your partner back. If you know that your partner does in fact really love you, just forget about notions of your personal "dignity" and go get her back. Invade her "space" by providing her with what she needs NOW rather than at some mutually-agreed on point in the future where you "try again". You will never get to that point if you sit around plaintively wondering and waiting. People that love someone don't just passively let them go - your partner wants to know if you love her. Be emotionally honest: more honest than perhaps you've EVER been about how you feel about her. Tell her what you are telling perfect strangers here on a message board, because that's what she needs to know. Be brave enough to tell her at all costs, even in the face of temporary rejection (which probably means more than once if she doesn't believe you really love her due to past behaviors!).

 

The only things that I have advised caution on revolve around trying to get your needs met by her during this time, whether emotional or physical. If she left you even though she loved you, it's because you fell rather short of meeting her needs, which in her mind put the extent of your love for her into doubt. And the simple fact is that she doesn't want to address your needs right now - not because she's inherently selfish - but because she needs to find out whether you really love her or whether you just want her back so she can go on providing emotionally for you with dubious returns. That's why saying "I'm miserable without you" doesn't work. Saying "I love you, I KNOW I can and will make you happy, and I'm staying right here until you give me that chance" does work. Proving this to your SO is something that only you can do. A counselor, in my view, is useful insofar as actually attending just helps to prove your commitment to changing the relationship. However, a counselor can't actually do the heavy lifting when it comes to giving your partner love and security. Only you can do that.

[confuzd]

Man this thread is becoming a plethora of knowledge they should probably format this into a text book and teach it in school " the do's and don'ts of relationships from real world trial and error"

 

So I had my big moment last night.

 

At first she called to see if I was on the way home, I told her I was. She sounded very rushed, she just got out of the gym, had to get gas, pick up my son, then meet with me, and then go home and get her dinner ready.

 

I asked her if she would like me to grab dinner on the way home so that she didn't have to cook when she got home, she liked that idea.

 

So I go to get the food, and apparently I get the wrong stuff. I never ordered from this restaurant before, but she has. I order three plates of food, and in return got a pie and a side of rice. Why I didn't catch this is still a mystery to me.

 

So Anyways my wife says Oh no we got to go and return this (she can be very fiesty) She was upset that they gave me the wrong food. Normally in these situations, I try to tell her it's not a big deal, and just come up with another idea for dinner, this would make her feel like I was not supporting her. So this time I was ready to hang these restaurant employees by their toes, just to show my wife that I was frustrated right along with her (which I really wasn't, to me it was still no big deal) So in the end we get our correct order, plus we keep the pie and rice, and they throw an extra baked potato on top of it. Man my wife is good.

 

So the three of us eat dinner, as we all talk and joke, we make comments about eating the rice with the pie for dinner and such. Then she asks if Im ready to talk, and I say yes.

 

So we go up stairs and kind of sit across the bed, And I begin telling her everything.

 

First I take a minute or two to gather my thoughts and my wife is just staring patiently waiting. I then tell her that I understand. I understand how she is feeling at this time, that she has given through out our whole relationship and is now all spent. I tell her like lysne said that it is my turn to give and I will do so for as long as it takes. I tell her that I love her and that my previous behavior of not talking to her and giving her space did not seem natural, due to the fact that I loved her so much.

 

I told her that she doesn't have to give me a thing, she doesn't have to text when I do, call if I call, hug me, kiss me, nothing. I told her that when she finally does these things that it will be because she wants too not because she feel obligated. I talked to her about sex and how I am not trying to get my rocks off but that I want to feel that connection, I told her not to take anything I do as an attempt to have sex with you. That is the last thing on my mind.

 

I told her my feelings when we first met in basic training, and how I felt when we courted during tech school. I told her of my dreams of the future, taking a vacation in paris (she has always wanted to go) holding hands looking at the eiffel tower as passers were conversating in french.

 

I told her that I will never give up and that I am here through thick and thin, for better or for worse. I tell her that not a day goes by when she is not racing through my mind. I told her that I have always loved her, and that love her more each day.

 

I told her that I understand she probably doesn't beleive what Im saying, and that it is okay. I will prove it to her through my actions. I acknowledged that it may even maker her a little upset, and that I totally understood.

 

That is about all I can recall, Im sure there was more but that was pretty much the bulk of it.

 

The whole time she had this kind of interested yet guarded look, as if she wanted this info to get to her but she was not about to show it. So I gave her a nice long hug, she was about to put her arms around me but I put them to her chest and just hugged/held her (as if I owned her Lysne) and kissed her forehead and cheek. I could tell she was pleased with the whole interaction.

 

Thanks for the advice you may have been an angel sent to save my marriage, still waiting on your answer to my question about when you will go back to the man you love.

 

Later.

[Woggle]

She has you wrapped around her finger and she knows it. Despite what some women on here say kissing her ass will not win her back. She does not respect you and in order for a woman to be attracted she has to respect a man. Show some independence and some backbone to win her back. You still don't seem to realize what you have done wrong and if a man doesn't know what he did wrong chances are he did nothing.

[confuzd]

I pondered whether i should even bother responding to this but what the hell. I have a few free minutes.

 

She has you wrapped around her finger and she knows it.

Cool,

 

Despite what some women on here say kissing her ass will not win her back.

 

Not kissing any ass, although I wouldn't mind if I got the chance (if you know what I mean). I don't think anyone ever recommended kissing ass either.

 

She does not respect you and in order for a woman to be attracted she has to respect a man.

 

Actually my wife is very attracted to me, and this has nothing to do with attraction. She has shown me alot of respect (given the circumstances, and my lack of respect for her), those blanket statements don't apply to every situation.

 

Show some independence and some backbone to win her back.

 

I'm sorry If I give off the impression of a spineless male organism, wasting away in my own sorrow, the real picture is far from that (although in the beginning my life may have more closely resembled the forementioned description). I choose not to post about other areas of my life in detail, just the matter at hand. I do have a life, friends, career, fun.

 

You still don't seem to realize what you have done wrong and if a man doesn't know what he did wrong chances are he did nothing.

I am very clear on what I've done wrong, which is why I am willing to make things right.

 

I think it takes alot more spine to stick it out. Beleive me it would be much easier and more (spineless) to tell her to go F%$# herself and go out in the world and spread my seed.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[frd150]

She has you wrapped around her finger and she knows it. Despite what some women on here say kissing her ass will not win her back. She does not respect you and in order for a woman to be attracted she has to respect a man. Show some independence and some backbone to win her back. You still don't seem to realize what you have done wrong and if a man doesn't know what he did wrong chances are he did nothing.

 

I have to ask if this is not what caused the demise of the relationship in the first place?

 

Is there not a difference between ass kissing and showing love and affection?

 

He neglected her while they were together and look where he is now. Would a different approach not be appropriate.

 

Can respect not be givien out of acts of love?

 

 

I'm just curious.

[lysne]

So this time I was ready to hang these restaurant employees by their toes, just to show my wife that I was frustrated right along with her (which I really wasn't, to me it was still no big deal)

 

Classic! You're nothing if not a quick study, Confuzd.

 

You did a great job and I think you'll see positive results soon. I hope you will keep us posted.

 

Now to answer your questions. First I should say that whatever I have posted I definitely didn't just work out on my own - those really do come from trial and error, mostly on my husband's part. I was in way too dark of a place for most of that time to analyze; now that I have started to emerge, I have been able to take a step back and see what was going on in terms of what really helped me and what I really needed. I'm not entirely sure how my husband wised up to the things that I needed to see and hear from him, but for the most part I think he just did what "felt" right to him (he has roots in a less "logic"-based, individualistic culture, which probably helped) along with following the counsel of his therapist who is apparently good.

 

I will go back to my husband when two things happen. The first is that I become completely satisfied that the path our relationship is on now will be a way of life for us going forward, not just a temporary cure for what ails us. The second is related: when I have wholly forgiven him and made my peace with his mistakes. The success of this relationship now depends on me - I have to commit myself to providing for all of his needs too. That means radical openness, support, love, and security just the same as has been provided for me. Those positive and selfless interactions have started to make for an upward positive spiral in our relationship. Because I have felt secure, I have more recently been able to confront the things that I did wrong in our relationship too, and there were plenty. In the future, I can't make the same mistakes either. If there is a fight, misunderstanding, or other grievance on his part, I have to have the same confidence and love for him to give him unconditional care and support. There is just no room in life for withdrawing into ourselves and nursing our wounds privately, because barriers will mount, guards will be posted at the gates, and the whole thing could be back on life support before you realize what's happening. Those patterns have to change permanently.

 

Thanks to new patterns of honesty, care, and support my husband I have been building 'capital' between us in our relationship, and I have been able to draw on that for the strength to quell my doubts and resentments for what has happened. When I know that I am ready to do MY part without reservation and without fear, I will go back.

[confuzd]

thinks for the reply again Lysne, you are doing great things on this website. I still am a little confused.

From what you said your husband has been doing the right things, so my question still is

 

What will make you feel like your relationship will be on the right track (that hasn't already happened), and if it is just more time, then how much time.

[confuzd]

Well last friday the day after my hear to heart, My wife asked me out on a date. I didn't get overly excited but just casually accepted her offer. She didn't really say lets go on a date but more like let go to a movie with our son. I guess I will take what I can get.

 

Before the Movie we go out for sushi, The food was great, wife was beautiful, and we eventually get into relationship talk, she was leading the conversation. She was just asking for explanations to things that i did, that hurt her in the past, and I explained her my frame of mind at the time, and I apologized and told her I realize it was wrong. She said she feels as if I may only want her back because I am a person who doesn't like to lose. I told her that was not the case and that I loved her. I told her that If I didn't love her then I would not be losing anything. I would never want to win something I didn't want, I told her that I still have a nice house, a nice car, and money to spend, the only thing Im losing is her. So being that I'm in a position where I could comfortably move on and be a catch to another woman, I must love her if Im willing to wait for her. I told her that I have always loved her but the way I showed it was wrong, I tried to buy her things, do things for her, take her places. But what I should've done was listen to her, understand her, and be with her the way she wanted to be had. She just kind of listened and had a look of understanding and comfort.

 

the rest of the conversation was great. we then proceeded to the movies, we were going to watch the simpsons but it was sold out so we ended up watching Evan All Mighty. This was the perfect movie for us. The whole theme of the movie is about coming closer together as a family with a religious undertone, all of which easily struck a chord with my wife. It was hilarious me and my wife laughed more then we ever had at a movie. The whole time I was holding her hand and caressing her fingers and palm. Everytime she would finish laughing she would put her hand back in my lap.

 

It's funny how much I appreciate the little things now. After the movie went for Ice Cream, there was some holding and touching. At one point she was facing me and I was facing her looking at the Ice cream selections on the wall, with out looking away from the menu, I said I love this woman standing in from of me, I could see her looking at me as I said it. Then I said I love this woman to death. She just kind of looked at me as if she was trying to judge my sincerity.

 

So we ate the ice cream and went home had converstion and went home. I told her she was great company and she said I was too. It was a great night.

 

The next day she calls me but I could not answer because I was taking a motorcyle riding course. (being unpredicable, and doing things that make me happy) I called her back and told her I was taking the course, she was surprised and asked If I was getting a motorcycle, I said maybe and that I would love to take her for a ride if I do, she just said she was scared, I told her all she has to do is look cute and hold on. She then said she wanted to know if I wanted to go have pizza with her and our son and I told her I couldn't. That night I sent her a text saying that I was thankful for having her in my life.

 

Well today I took the second part of the course, It was a blast, My wife called just to ask If I was going to ride in the weather since it was bad. I texted her a few times about nothing, just normal stuff I would've texted a buddy, and she replied each time.

 

After the course I gave her a call and we talked for a few minutes I read that you should always try to find something that your wife has done that you want her to do more of and compliment her on it. This acutally works for anyone for that matter. So i said " I want to thank you for being so sweet lately" She said "what do you mean" I said "you have been sweet lately, and a pleasure to be around" she said "but I didn't do anything" I said "well I have noticed and just wanted you to know I appreciate it" she said "thanks" That was the last I talked to her today It was about a total of 5 minutes of conversation the whole day, but it was good quality conversation.

 

That's it for now. thanks for all the support

[Mike1966]

Thanks for the update, confuzed...........I'd give anything to be in your shoes right now !!

 

It's definitely a journey but it really looks as if your wife is starting to understand that you really do "love" her, and are not just trying to win her back. She at least seems to have let her guard down enough to show her feelings for you which is something i'd die for right now.

 

I'll be anxious to keep following your story! Keep up the good work!

[confuzd]

I guess it could be alot worse, but It could also be alot better, sometimes things just seem so hopeless.

 

My wife dropped my son off on sunday this is my week to have him. Me and the wife haven't been talking that much lately, I send maybe one text a day and she usually calls after she gets off work, and that's about it.

 

Well last sunday I put my son to bed, and about a half hour later he comes in my room crying, I ask him what is wrong and he says that he wants us to be a family again, he wants both of us together. This obviously crushed me, and all I could say was that I want that too. I told him to pray for the things that he wants.

 

The next day (yesterday) when my wife picks him up from camp to drop him off at my house, he tells her that he was crying, she says why? and he tells her because he was sad and wanted us to be a family again. All my wife says is "I'm sorry". Man what kind of stuff is that. I guess it would've just been nice if she would've said, "hopefully we will" or "maybe one day" or something along those lines, but all she said was I'm sorry.

 

Oh well, I have no idea what the future holds. I called my wife yesterday, just to chat,since she called me earlier, I asked if she felt like talking, she had just got out the shower and was wrapping up her hair. she politely said no. and said she was sorry.

 

Of course fifty million things run through my head, "why don't you want to talk", "who is at your place" etc. I don't beleive any of that is true but the mind can be your worst enemy sometimes.

 

I just said that's cool don't apologize, I'll just talk to you some other time, have a good night.

 

AAAARGH, patience patience patience.

[Mike1966]

Hang in there.

 

The more I go through this the more I realize I can't depend on what my wife says because one it it will be one way, then the next completely different. Even when she said she wanted a divorce and now says she just doesn't know.

 

Confuzed - I know you know this even likely more than I at this point, but, for your own healing through this, keep focusing on you being okay through this whether you get back together or not. It is emotionally draining going back and forth........believe me, because that's what I'm experiencing right now.

 

I know that I will continue to love and support my wife through our separation even if it ends in divorce. Right now, I don't feel love for her but I am committed and know that would come quickly if we forgive and choose to reconcile. I don't want to end up without her but internally am preparing myself in case it happens and know that it won't be the end of the world, that I have great kids and many things to be thankful for, my health......etc.

 

I think possibly more space and less contact may be beneficial but I'm no counselor so maybe some of the others who have been through this more can help. Unfortunately in my case until my wife and I close on our house and each get relocated into a place we are having to talk more than I'd like.

 

Best of luck and keep updating.

[lysne]

What will make you feel like your relationship will be on the right track (that hasn't already happened), and if it is just more time, then how much time.

 

Well, I'm human, he's human. Not everything goes so well all the time. Sometimes it feels like one step back for every two steps forward. Sometimes I have very serious doubts and second thoughts. Sometimes there are conversations that go downhill, and sometimes things go fine but a war kicks up in my brain. I know all about that.

 

At the end of the day, it's a matter of time. I honestly don't know how much. As much as it takes to get over it and to believe that things will change. There are days that I think I'm about ready to pack my bags and go home, and then I'll wake up the next day mad again. Women, eh? Sorry I can't be much help on this point. I will say that I do sort of have an internal deadline in mind, ie, by this date go home or end it for good. It's in a couple of months. Can't say for sure whether I'll even adhere to it; I wish I knew myself as I'm tired of being in limbo.

 

It's a big rollercoaster, and I see from your last post that you and your wife are on it too. It's not much fun. All I can say is that you're clearly a good guy and you're getting the important things right. From what you've written I do believe that in the end your wife will go back to you. Just be prepared for it to take some time, and be prepared for the downs as well as the ups. Take care.

[lysne]

Right now, I don't feel love for her but I am committed and know that would come quickly if we forgive and choose to reconcile...

 

I think possibly more space and less contact may be beneficial but I'm no counselor so maybe some of the others who have been through this more can help.

 

Mike, I certainly don't blame you for how you feel. Your wife hasn't given you much love either, probably for several years. But you should know that she can sense your fairly blasé attitude about the future (ie, life will go on if we divorce, I will remarry in a couple of years, etc.), and that you don't in fact feel love for her right now.

 

Now, if you don't, you don't. There might not be much you can do about that without her help. But she has a keen sixth sense about you, and she can sniff out any small contradiction between words and actions. Toxic doubt will spring up and her decision will be cemented sooner or later.

 

I hope you will please excuse this totally unqualified detour into armchair psychology, Mike, but I sort of get the impression that you always talk a good talk. You're a nice guy, religious, devoted, you work hard to support your family. You're very well-meaning, and as you have pointed out, you certainly have bent over backwards to help your wife in terms of the logistics of separation. Your wife is aware of these very positive attributes; at the same time, she still isn't seeing 'action' from you in terms of what she needs emotionally. What those needs are, in fact, you don't seem to really know.

 

It doesn't appear that you have ever really listened to what it is that your wife needs and wants from you. Even now you're not really listening. It may be that your wife is no good at communicating that to you, which means that if you want to save this marriage, you have to do the hard work of digging out what it is she's truly missing. With the exception of days that she's just really angry or tired of you (and there will be some), it's really not about space or contact. It's about finding out what she wants from you, and once you know that, you will know when, how much, and what kind of space or contact to give her.

 

It could be that you just don't feel that connection anymore, and you're tired of making effort for so little return. But that's what your wife wants to know - whether you will keep trying and figure out how to love her the way that she wants. If you wait to do this until after "reconciliation," there probably won't be one. Just my $.02.

[confuzd]

Well, I'm human, he's human. Not everything goes so well all the time. Sometimes it feels like one step back for every two steps forward. Sometimes I have very serious doubts and second thoughts. Sometimes there are conversations that go downhill, and sometimes things go fine but a war kicks up in my brain. I know all about that.

 

At the end of the day, it's a matter of time. I honestly don't know how much. As much as it takes to get over it and to believe that things will change. There are days that I think I'm about ready to pack my bags and go home, and then I'll wake up the next day mad again. Women, eh? Sorry I can't be much help on this point. I will say that I do sort of have an internal deadline in mind, ie, by this date go home or end it for good. It's in a couple of months. Can't say for sure whether I'll even adhere to it; I wish I knew myself as I'm tired of being in limbo.

quote]

 

This is actually a great help, from what I gather it seems as if you are saying that your husband may be lacking consistency, which is causing you to fluctuate from going back - to being unsure if things will be different.

If he were to be more consistent with his understanding, and whatever changes he needs to show you, you would probably be more convinced of what decision you need to make.

So I take it that consistency is key on my part, and I will do my best not to take two steps back for every one I make forward. I also feel my wife has an internal deadline, I think it is six months because that's how long she got her lease for, when she could've gotten a better deal if she went a year.

A big milestone for me is our upcoming cruise in September, I'm not sure if she will go with me, but it has already been paid for. If I can stay consistent and if she can let her wall down enough to go on that cruise with me, I think it will be a huge step towards us growing closer again. Thanks again for your advice Lysne, you too Mike.

[confuzd]

I hope you will please excuse this totally unqualified detour into armchair psychology,

 

I love the way you write, lol

[lysne]

This is actually a great help, from what I gather it seems as if you are saying that your husband may be lacking consistency, which is causing you to fluctuate from going back - to being unsure if things will be different.

If he were to be more consistent with his understanding, and whatever changes he needs to show you, you would probably be more convinced of what decision you need to make.

 

Yes, that's right. For the most part he does well, but even small slip-ups can re-ignite my suspicions or fears. If he becomes a little needy then (and I just can't help it) it raises the feeling that he's just become used to me and wants me back to take care of him. In my mind I'm thinking that if I just wait long enough, he'll find someone else to do it and that will be that. Another example: if, under interrogation, he says anything by way of explanation that could be remotely construed as an excuse for what he did, then the fallout is big. Feeling that he takes full responsibility and is really sorry, all the time, every day, are big big factors.

 

Conversely, many (most) times he really makes me feel understood, safe, and we are able to reach some mutual understandings. At which point he has been known occasionally to start getting comfortable, and has even been known to act to my very sensitive mind almost jovial. Upon which a reaction kicks in on my part, unbidden, which goes something like, "What are YOU so happy about, as*hole?" Then I wonder if I've made it too easy for him and whether he's learned his lesson. You will note that in terms of the marriage I'm about as secure as Al-Anbar Province right now which, outside of being just sad, goes a long way in explaining why consistent reassurance and effort are needed.

 

My situation, infidelity, is probably more extreme than yours. However, when reading through your thread I recognized so many of the same dynamics in your interactions with your wife, and even a lot of the same exchanges, verbatim. So hopefully by letting you in on my thought process (however cringe-worthy as posted in the broad light of day) it will help give some insight on what to do to combat such feelings from your wife. It helps me understand what on earth I'm doing too!

[Mike1966]

lysne....

 

You have a lot of wisdom for both confuzed and I regarding how to really relate our spouses. I don't want to hijack this thread but want to tell you that in my situation I totally understand what you are saying about a blaze attitude. Though I conveyed it in my post, I just want to tell you that's far from how I treat my wife. I've just been trying to understand her which has been difficult. Only in the past few days have i had the opportunity to hold her or touch her without her pulling away. One time it was because she was very upset and crying about everything, other times I have just felt led to show her a little affection..........she pretty much seems indifferent to it.

 

confuzed.............I'm far from saying have a "I don't care" attitude with your wife. You, as well as I, need to be loving and supportive no matter what is said. At the end of the day, for me anyway, I want to know I've done everything to save my relationship and I know you want to do the same thing.

 

lysne..........your post directed to me.............how do I really figure out what my wife wants?? In my case, there is a lack of trust over past decisions with finances..............it has been due to both of us but I take responsibility for it and have since our separation. It has been stated that there is a lack of intimacy on my part though I somewhat disagree I have agreed nontheless. She said last week she needed to do this to prove to me that she could.............I told her I thought she was more than capable of living on her own but am supporting what she wants.

 

confuzed............sorry, my friend, again, I certainly don't mean to hijack your thread but in many ways our situations are the same so I hope you can benefit from some of my Q & A with lysne...........I wish I could take her with me when meeting with my wife so I would have the woman's prospective .

 

Peace,

[lysne]

Hi Mike. If your wife is indifferent to physical affection, it's probably because she has her defenses way up. It seems she's been thinking about divorce for a long time, which means she has been building up an emotional wall around herself for a long time. Sure she's very upset, but inside she's preparing herself for what she sees as (but hopes inside is not) inevitable. As you said before, don't believe what she says right now, and only half of what she does. So true.

 

I think that you and your wife have had very poor emotional communication for a long time, and it will be essential to change that. She is telling you she's unhappy about the finances - but what is she really saying? I doubt she's really divorcing you over accumulating some debt, there has to be a deeper reason. Maybe in truth she's hurt that you didn't tell her what was going on with them, or that you didn't respect her abilities when she thought she could help, or maybe she just generally feels that the financial problems are symptomatic of not really being a team. Women really like to feel that their marriage is a true partnership, and maybe by being "controlling" for so long, you took that sense of value and worth as a respected partner away from her. These are the things that you have to find out, and you can only do it by asking probing questions and conveying to her that you truly want to understand her feelings.

 

Since you said she has a lot of specific grievances built up and catalogued away in her brain, you can start there. Ask her about specific instances that she felt unhappy or hurt, and try to find out the larger problems underneath the symptoms. Encourage her to open up; say that you surely haven't been able to read her mind all this time, but you truly want to understand where you have gone wrong or misunderstood one another. If you don't get to the bottom of WHY she wants to divorce you then all else matters not. When she does start to open up, don't feel pressured to agree with her (such as you did regarding intimacy). It's not about humoring her, it's about expressing understanding and letting her know that you didn't hurt her on purpose. Sometimes you will have a wildly different take on what happened, which is okay. All you have to do is show that you can understand why she felt the way she did, you're sorry if she felt hurt (even if you didn't actually do anything wrong!), and if appropriate, let her know your perspective so she can better understand you too.

 

That's a good place to start. Does your wife keep a journal? If she writes, she might be more comfortable at first writing down how she really feels to you than saying it. In that case you could ask her to write you a letter saying why she feels emotionally distanced from you. From there you can start to open up the lines of communication. Good luck Mike! Keep us posted and next time I will check back on your other thread.

[Cobra_X30]

Confuzd,

 

When you first posted I didnt recognize any of the similarities, but now reading allot of your story, you remind me of my father. I feel for what you are going through, and I think you are a strong person. Strong not in the way of something hard and brittle, but in the way of something that can flex and bend when required. I was in your sons position once. Did you ever cheat on your wife?

[Yernasia Quorelios]

I can see where you got that concern. At the same time, I think that if you go back and read my original post, what I am really advocating is fairly radical courage. Walking on eggshells is exactly what won't work to bring your partner back.

Understood and I particularly like the advocation of radical courage .