physical or emotional intimacy?

[mockeryjones]

Perhaps you can go into why his wife needs to change her requirement for emotional needs?

 

i didn't say she needs to change her requirement for getting her emotional needs filled. i said that his filling of those emotional needs is not a gaurantee that he will get his own physical/intimacy needs met. essentially this strategy assumes reciprocity in that by catering to her needs, he should be able to expect to get his needs met. however reciprocity is only useful if discussed beforehand, otherwise it is introducing a covert contract into the relationship. if he intends to meet her emotional needs in order to get his physical needs met then he should be up front about that and establish an agreement for reciprocal behavior.

[Trialbyfire]

i didn't say she needs to change her requirement for getting her emotional needs filled. i said that his filling of those emotional needs is not a gaurantee that he will get his own physical/intimacy needs met. essentially this strategy assumes reciprocity in that by catering to her needs, he should be able to expect to get his needs met. however reciprocity is only useful if discussed beforehand, otherwise it is introducing a covert contract into the relationship. if he intends to meet her emotional needs in order to get his physical needs met then he should be up front about that and establish an agreement for reciprocal behavior.

I've yet to meet a woman who has natural appetites to not want to reciprocate when her emotional needs have been met. If she's hot for you, she'll be all over you.

 

This is once again a gender difference. I think men tend to be far more competitive than women. They fail to understand that when a woman gives, she expects that there will be reciprocation of need. A man sees this as capitulation and then goes for the throat. The kill, per se. Instead, a smart man will see it as the extended olive branch and meet her halfway. Instead, many men can't understand why she withdraws. End result, neither gets what they want.

[mockeryjones]

I've yet to meet a woman who has natural appetites to not want to reciprocate when her emotional needs have been met. If she's hot for you, she'll be all over you.

 

This is once again a gender difference. I think men tend to be far more competitive than women. They fail to understand that when a woman gives, she expects that there will be reciprocation of need. A man sees this as capitulation and then goes for the throat. The kill, per se. Instead, a smart man will see it as the extended olive branch and meet her halfway. Instead, many men can't understand why she withdraws. End result, neither gets what they want.

 

i don't think it has as much to do with being competitive as it does with trying to avoid being manipulative. if he states up front that he will attempt meet her needs with the expectation that she will reciprocate by meeting his needs then all the ground rules are set. if he just does it to meet her needs with the unvoiced expectation that she will meet his i see it as manipulative and ineffective.

[Lizzie60]

I would think that the physical aspect is more important... because the emotional is sometimes acquire for life while the physical aspect tends to diminish and might eventually destroy the relationship...

 

I see many MM who are seeking sex outside the M because it has either become routine or is simply lacking... while they are still very attached to their W.

 

If the physical aspect remains intact, then the emotional will go with it... IMO and that would be the 'perfect relationship'... probably the very rare ones that last a lifetime.

 

So, for me, I would think that the physical aspect is more important... let's say in a 80/20 ratio... but that's just me.

[Trialbyfire]

i don't think it has as much to do with being competitive as it does with trying to avoid being manipulative. if he states up front that he will attempt meet her needs with the expectation that she will reciprocate by meeting his needs then all the ground rules are set. if he just does it to meet her needs with the unvoiced expectation that she will meet his i see it as manipulative and ineffective.

When a relationship has gotten to the point where there's contention over basic requirements like this, a cold agreement like this will probably get neither what they want. Really, how do you suppose a man can meet an emotional need if it's obvious he's only acting?

[mockeryjones]

Really, how do you suppose a man can meet an emotional need if it's obvious he's only acting?

 

who said it would be only acting? if he makes a good faith effort is it acting or is it trying? why would anyone reach an agreement which they weer not willing to put a real effort into?

[Trialbyfire]

who said it would be only acting? if he makes a good faith effort is it acting or is it trying? why would anyone reach an agreement which they weer not willing to put a real effort into?

Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss the predecessor behaviours that caused the rift, then both parties amend the unhealthy patterns? If there's no due knowledge of what caused this fallout, all it takes is one party to falter a bit, before the house of cards comes crashing down again.

[mockeryjones]

Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss the predecessor behaviours that caused the rift, then both parties amend the unhealthy patterns?

 

that is how most people come to agreements is it not? and that is very different than just trying to meet her emotional needs and expecting that she will reciprocate no?

[Trialbyfire]

that is how most people come to agreements is it not? and that is very different than just trying to meet her emotional needs and expecting that she will reciprocate no?

That is how people mend faltering relationships but it's not the standard way to reach agreements in the general sense.

[Ladyjane14]

....reciprocity is only useful if discussed beforehand, otherwise it is introducing a covert contract into the relationship. if he intends to meet her emotional needs in order to get his physical needs met then he should be up front about that and establish an agreement for reciprocal behavior.

 

There's a word to describe women who barter for what they want using sex..... and I very much doubt that most men would like that word applied to their wife.

 

Meeting your partner's ENs shouldn't be a transaction. You meet your wife's needs because you love her, and because you want to make her feel appreciated and happy. You meet your husband's needs because you love him... and you want to make him feel appreciated and happy. Simple. If we're talking about an otherwise loving relationship, we're talking about differences in understanding and perspective... not overt malice.

 

Spouses are too often just basically inconsiderate of one another over the course of time. Resentments get built up, and then they have to be dealt with. Allowing a woman to believe that you prioritize the use of her body more than 'who she is'... well, that's gonna cause some mighty BIG resentments.

[mockeryjones]

There's a word to describe women who barter for what they want using sex..... and I very much doubt that most men would like that word applied to their wife.

 

no offense lady jane, but agreeing to meet each others needs for the betterment of the relationship does not equate to whoring. being up front about the problems you are tyring to solve through changing behavior doesn't equate to paying for sex either.

 

Meeting your partner's ENs shouldn't be a transaction. You meet your wife's needs because you love her, and because you want to make her feel appreciated and happy. You meet your husband's needs because you love him... and you want to make him feel appreciated and happy. Simple. If we're talking about an otherwise loving relationship, we're talking about differences in understanding and perspective... not overt malice.

 

 

except that in real life most relationships don't work that way. past baggage, cultural expectations, even fluxations in nuerochemicals can through a wrench into being able to meet other peopl's needs. moreover you have laid out a relationship the way it should be, not the way relationships actually are.

 

i find it interesting that you equate stating the problem and mutually agreeing to changes in both parties behavior with the intent of solving specific issues the same thing as either whoring or malice.

 

going back to the original point of my pontificating. meeting a woman's emotional needs with the unvoiced expectation of reciprocity is manipulative in the extreme. it also sets the person who does it up for inevitable dissapointment when the effort that they have put into it is not reciprocated to the degree that they expected. the only way for the OP to get his needs met is to clearly state his needs and to agree to work on on meeting her clearly expressed needs. nothing else can really work in the long run. all other paths rely on the other partner being a mind reader.

 

 

Spouses are too often just basically inconsiderate of one another over the course of time. Resentments get built up, and then they have to be dealt with. Allowing a woman to believe that you prioritize the use of her body more than 'who she is'... well, that's gonna cause some mighty BIG resentments.

 

and meeting the women's needs with the expectation that she will change to meet yours will not when she does not fufill your expectations? once again all i am saying is that it is important not to introduce covert contracts into the situation. it's not unromantic or mercenary for both parties to agree to change to better the relationship for both parties, however if only one person is clued into the deal you are asking for disaster, resentment, and ultimately dissapointment in the realtionship.

 

 

*btw i know my spelling is crap today, multi tasking to the extreme*

[Ladyjane14]

Have it your way, of course Mr. Jones. Whatever works best for you.

 

All I know is that what I've described has worked for me and my husband. Our relationship is better than ever, we're both happy, and the problems that we had for about a decade of our marriage have evaporated.

Maybe that's just us though. I, for one, do NOT barter for love or sex. And during those tough years any attempts on his part to do so just resulted in pushing me further away and building up more resentments.

[sanjay5410]

I have gone thru all ur posts!

 

Lady jane i agree with u, when this problem surfaced I thought it was due to lack of physical initmacy and I started to try harder and harder, Frankly speakig I lost all about emotional intimacy.

 

We use to have rocking time in bed earlier but suddenly everything vanished

 

The only time i admired my wife was in bed, I use to wait till we use to get in bed to tell her I LOVE U.

 

The moment I entered a store I headed towards the lingerie department, would persuade my wife to buy more lingeries.

 

The result was she went into her shell.

 

Now I realised that I put her into the shell, Well she is also to be blamed cause she nevel spoke about this and just took in on her own.

 

The result today I am here

 

So I think that a woman has to be won emotinally first than only she will respond to your physical needs.

 

If she knows that u are there for her emotinally she will connect to you.

 

I have to start it all over again so will try and as said even if after six months see no change in my wife than I will have to quits!!!

[Ladyjane14]

I have to start it all over again so will try and as said even if after six months see no change in my wife than I will have to quits!!!

 

It's good that you're going to try, but you still have to talk to her about all this. Hopefully, you'll read those books I told you about as well.

 

People have a sort of inner monologue going on when they're not getting what they need. They're trying to figure out why. And oftentimes, they truly believe the reason they've thought up within their own mind is the real and true reason. Just as often... it's not.

 

There's a certain amount of "hypnosis" to be defeated on both sides of the lop-sided libido issue because there's social training to be overcome as well, whereby media and tradition have convinced us that the opposite sex is 'just so'. IOW, both men and women believe they know certain things about the opposite sex as a whole, but those things aren't always true, and sometimes they feed into our worst fears and insecurities about one another.

 

For example, women as a whole, don't consider men to be a "paycheck" or "mealticket". And men as a whole, don't consider women to be to be merely good for sex and cooking. But... when it seems that way to us, we set these false notions in concrete and have a tough time seeing a better truth.

 

You have to BOTH un-hypnotize yourselves, and find the BEST in each other. Your inner monologue has to change and so does hers, so that it's main message is...

"I-love-my spouse-I-love-my-spouse".

 

It's important that your wife understand that she is the reason you want to have sex. Hey, if it was just about having an orgasm, you can do that for yourself, right? That's not what you're looking for. Rather, it's more about sharing an active expression of what's in your heart for her. And how her passionate participation is what reassures you that your feelings are reciprocated, so that you feel the love she claims to have for you.

 

So talk to her, share what's in your heart, and.... "make love" to your wife. Don't just "have sex" with her. Until she's much more secure and your emotional intimacy is fully restored, be particularly attentive to her preferences in lovemaking techniques. Don't push for things she's uncomfortable with.

 

Once she knows that you are prioritizing her on the same level as you do yourself, and that your consistent motivation is to please her and increase her happiness, she'll be more assured of your true love. She'll be able to feel it again similar to how you are reassured by physical expressions of love.

 

There's no quick fix here though. She has to eventually make a "leap of faith" in both emotional trust and the heartfelt desire to increase your happiness by fulfilling your needs. That needs to come from within. She's got to choose it for herself.

 

I wish I could explain how you can help a woman make that choice, but I just don't have words for it. My own "inner monologue" has changed though... so I look at things differently. My guiding principle these days is this.... "I will prioritize my partner's needs as if they were my own". And then I try to figure out what his needs are.

 

This isn't something that I expect "payment" for. It's a gift because I love my husband and because I want him to have the happiest life possible. There's no "transaction" here. And because I view it so, I notice and appreciate the "gifts" he gives to me. I no longer support a negative "inner monologue", rather I apply a better view of him. Reciprocity becomes authentic when it comes from within.

 

You can find what you're looking for in other people most of the time, Sanjay. If you're looking for selfishness... you'll find it, even in otherwise good people. But if you're looking for generosity and examples of caring, you can find that too. This is how you defeat your own "hypnosis".