Should I separate and let him go?

[NoIntimacy]

This is my first time even finding this forum or writing anything about my life in such a setting....but a lot of what I have read about others has given me strength so far so here is my story and I am hoping someone out there who has an open mind and heart can hear mine and respond to help me through my frustration and pain.

 

My husband and I have been married for almost sixteen years and have 4 children under age 14.....great kids. Right now he wants a new start and may either separate and try to be apart to see if things change or end it all together. The truth is it is about me not being interested in sex and/or sex with him. It has been an issue since the very beginning but we had moments where I was feeling better about it and didn't see it as such a "BAD" thing...and we have kids so something happened there:cool: Anyway since I don't know/have the confidence that I will ever be free of this problem, I feel like maybe he should move on and be with someone else.

 

I am having so many up and down emotions and crying privately so my kids don't see me this way since he shared with me on the 4th of July that he wants a fresh new start and may need to move away -- he said, "either it's going to work or it isn't". We have gone to counseling now for almost 18 months already and it's a slow process of getting to root of my childhood issues and I just think he is tired of waiting for me to come around. Part of me wants to let him go and the other part wants to get the help/read books/apply the tools I need....but I am exhausted and always think about how I married with not quite the right intentions.. Tonight he left to go be with some friends at 9pm and it's already 6am and he is not back....that is a first....I feel like he has made up in his mind that it's over and he wants to start looking around for a person who has a healthy sexual view and is in touch with her sexuality and maybe doesn't believe I can truly change. I want to continue counseling for myself and work on me and taking care of my children.....should I separate and let's see if the time apart heals?

[Ladyjane14]

Your husband is starved for sexual and emotional intimacy, and will NOT be back if he finds this fulfillment with someone else.

He will fall immediately head-over-heels in love with that person. By now, he's like a dry, no... dessicated sponge, waiting for moisture in the form of affection.

 

We've got quite a few threads in the marriage section dealing with lop-sided libido issues. Here's one of the recent ones:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123244

 

You say you're "exhausted", maybe so much so that you don't know if you're willing to try to save your marriage. But you need to understand that "not trying" is in actuality a de facto CHOICE to end the marriage.

 

The difference between men and women is more than 'outties' and 'innies'. Our brain function is different. And even though men are able to compartmentalize sexual issues in ways that defy female imagination, they can't do it when it comes to the bond they share with their partner. In order to be fulfilled emotionally by that bond, they NEED a passionate response from their partner. This affirms for them that they are loved.

 

It does no good to say you love somebody if they can't feel it. If a guy doesn't know, without a doubt in his mind, that he is LOVED... he may as well not be.

 

Honestly, I went through a similar experience as you. Probably ten years of my 25-year marriage, we fought about sex. I didn't understand why it was such a big frigging deal. I felt minimized as a person by his insistence that it was, as if 'getting off' was a bigger priority for him than my feelings.

 

But I was WRONG.

 

"Emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy go hand-in-hand for heterosexual, monogamous couples." I just posted that on another thread this morning actually.

 

The point is, you can't have one without the other. If you do, somebody isn't getting what they need in order to feel loved and cherished within the relationship. You say you've been doing alot of crying. I'll tell you... I cried for DAYS when I realized what I'd put my husband through for more than a decade. That's MY MAN, and I had let him walk through this world for YEARS feeling unloved and unwanted by the very woman who PROMISED to love and want him.

 

 

Now, you might ask why it's the woman who has to make the change when it's a 'high-libido man/low-libido woman' issue. And my answer to that would be... because she can.

 

He can't. He's got TWENTY times more testosterone, driving him like the low-buzz of white noise constantly in his ear. What's more, his sense of emotional intimacy with his mate is inextricably intertwined with good sexual intimacy. So, we're not talking about just 'putting out' or pity sex. His woman needs to love him in an active and passionate way or his emotional needs are not met.

 

It's your choice if you want to try to save your marriage or not. But as things stand right now, you'll have to make that choice soon. A non-choice will doom the marriage to divorce.

[sumdude]

LJ as usual your post cuts right to the core .... I can't imagine anything else to add. You rock..

[dgiirl]

The truth is it is about me not being interested in sex and/or sex with him. It has been an issue since the very beginning but we had moments where I was feeling better about it and didn't see it as such a "BAD" thing...and we have kids so something happened there:cool: Anyway since I don't know/have the confidence that I will ever be free of this problem, I feel like maybe he should move on and be with someone else.

 

You said there were moments when you were feeling better about sex. I would try and explore those times more and try to think of how you were feeling at the time and what was going on in your life? Was there less stress in your life? Were you feeling more confident about yourself? Did you feel more loved by your husband? Do you WANT to have more interest in sex? Have you seen a doctor about this?

[Gunny376]

Your husband is starved for sexual and emotional intimacy, and will NOT be back if he finds this fulfillment with someone else.

He will fall immediately head-over-heels in love with that person. By now, he's like a dry, no... dessicated sponge, waiting for moisture in the form of affection.

 

We've got quite a few threads in the marriage section dealing with lop-sided libido issues. Here's one of the recent ones:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123244

 

You say you're "exhausted", maybe so much so that you don't know if you're willing to try to save your marriage. But you need to understand that "not trying" is in actuality a de facto CHOICE to end the marriage.

 

The difference between men and women is more than 'outties' and 'innies'. Our brain function is different. And even though men are able to compartmentalize sexual issues in ways that defy female imagination, they can't do it when it comes to the bond they share with their partner. In order to be fulfilled emotionally by that bond, they NEED a passionate response from their partner. This affirms for them that they are loved.

 

It does no good to say you love somebody if they can't feel it. If a guy doesn't know, without a doubt in his mind, that he is LOVED... he may as well not be.

 

Honestly, I went through a similar experience as you. Probably ten years of my 25-year marriage, we fought about sex. I didn't understand why it was such a big frigging deal. I felt minimized as a person by his insistence that it was, as if 'getting off' was a bigger priority for him than my feelings.

 

But I was WRONG.

 

"Emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy go hand-in-hand for heterosexual, monogamous couples." I just posted that on another thread this morning actually.

 

The point is, you can't have one without the other. If you do, somebody isn't getting what they need in order to feel loved and cherished within the relationship. You say you've been doing alot of crying. I'll tell you... I cried for DAYS when I realized what I'd put my husband through for more than a decade. That's MY MAN, and I had let him walk through this world for YEARS feeling unloved and unwanted by the very woman who PROMISED to love and want him.

 

 

Now, you might ask why it's the woman who has to make the change when it's a 'high-libido man/low-libido woman' issue. And my answer to that would be... because she can.

 

He can't. He's got TWENTY times more testosterone, driving him like the low-buzz of white noise constantly in his ear. What's more, his sense of emotional intimacy with his mate is inextricably intertwined with good sexual intimacy. So, we're not talking about just 'putting out' or pity sex. His woman needs to love him in an active and passionate way or his emotional needs are not met.

 

It's your choice if you want to try to save your marriage or not. But as things stand right now, you'll have to make that choice soon. A non-choice will doom the marriage to divorce.

 

GOLLY!!!!! GEE WHITAKERS MR. WILSON!!!!!! :eek: YOU MEAN THERE'S ACTUALLY A WOMAN ON THE PLANET THAT FINALLY MADE THE CONNECTION AND HAS A CLUE! :eek: WOW!!!!! WHO WOULD HAVE EVER GUESSED!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek:

:laugh:

[NoIntimacy]

I hear what you are saying and it sounds to me that if, whether hard or not, I am not willing to change it is the best thing to just let him go and start a new life without someone that is completely excited about sex & intimacy. He told me recently that, "I'm not saying that we're separating or getting a divorce, it just may be a good idea to separate for a while to see if the time apart will help. You make more money and can take care of the kids and provide for them. I'll try to get more business going and get my own place and start making sure I can contribute (financially) for the kids." LadyJane, it's not that I don't WANT to change it's maybe that I AM AFRAID to give myself in that way....alot of painful violations happened to me as a child and I know that some people say...Yeah that was in the past, pick up the pieces and move forward -- grow up!!. Well I am still crying and still hurting but certainly don't minimize his hurt -- I need to make an appointment quick and take steps forward to either let him go or work things out...I know it is my choice and decision but talking it out helps in a small way and having listener respond back...I have to decide/act/change.

[Ladyjane14]

...it's not that I don't WANT to change it's maybe that I AM AFRAID to give myself in that way....alot of painful violations happened to me as a child and I know that some people say...Yeah that was in the past, pick up the pieces and move forward....

 

I'm sorry to hear that you were victimized as a child. That's something that shouldn't happen to ANY kid.

 

The way I see it though... you're still allowing that person to victimize you here so many years removed from what happened. Your husband isn't the one who did such an evil thing to you, yet he pays for someone else's sin. Your kids pay, because the marriage is the foundation upon which the family rests. And YOU pay because you're not living the life that was meant to be yours.

 

I can tell you, to the best of my ability, how to role up your sleeves, wade in, and defeat the lop-sided libido issue. But I can't tell you how to fight the demons you allow to live inside your head, and I can't give you the courage to try to save your marriage. Only YOU can do that.

 

But here's food for thought.... if you and your husband have been to MC for eighteen months and haven't accomplished any of your goals... it's probably time to seek a new counselor. Sometimes a change in treatment plan can re-energize the process.

[NoIntimacy]

You said there were moments when you were feeling better about sex. I would try and explore those times more and try to think of how you were feeling at the time and what was going on in your life? Was there less stress in your life? Were you feeling more confident about yourself? Did you feel more loved by your husband? Do you WANT to have more interest in sex? Have you seen a doctor about this?

 

I am trying to explore those times more and how I was feeling at that point. These were alot of the things I was feeling...Number1 I wasn't stressed and I was feeling truly loved and appreciated by my husband but he wasn't stressing and pressing the issue as much about the lack of intimacy. YES YES YES I truly do want to have more interest in sex --- it is a great thing and when we are together most of the time I don't see it as a chore or burdened.....but rather I truly enjoy it. The other thing is that we were communicating alot better on how eachother felt and that was awesome but now it seems that we haven't really talked to eachother and he's just TIRED of "waiting for me to come around". I want to free him this and let him go but my heart is truly torn. Seeing a doctor about this and hearing LadyJane state that we should maybe get a new counselor is the direction I am going to look into on Monday morning.

 

Thanks for everything -- if you're out there an you are struggling with intimacy give me any suggestions or comments you have.

[NoIntimacy]

LadyJane, believe me I know that it is my decision to make and I am not asking anyone on this site to tell me what to do...I'm only asking for feedback/suggestions/or to hear from someone that may be in my shoes or can give me solid advice and honest input. I don't want to be told I'm right when I'm not and I don't want to make excuses for my situation....I realize he is not responsible, but when he got frustrated before he victimized that same way and sometimes that really angers and puts him in that place. All I can say right now is that it would be nice if you can tell me (to the best of your ability) "... how to role up your sleeves, wade in, and defeat the lop-sided libido issue"....bring it on...tell me...even if it's a website or a book or tape that I should listening. Last week I did call a doctor and since it was the holiday I think the office may have been closed so I will pursue that as well on Monday. Thanks for everything

[Ladyjane14]

.... but when he got frustrated before he victimized that same way and sometimes that really angers and puts him in that place.

 

I'm not understanding this part of your post. Is there abusive behavior in your home? Has your husband mistreated you?

 

Because if he has... all bets are off. I would NEVER encourage a woman to stay with a bad man. Judge his character by his actions, not necessarily his words. We can't always determine a good man from a bad one based on his language alone. A frustrated man will say alot of bad things. A frustrated man is an angry man... and an angry man spouts off alot of chaff mixed in with his wheat.

 

Assuming we're talking about an otherwise good guy...

 

Male brain function, as I said earlier, works differently than that of the female when processing emotional information. We all arrive to the same place more or less in emotional terms, but by virtue of the way a man's brain is "hard-wired"... his route is more circuitous.

 

This is explained fairly well in an article I read a couple of years ago. If you type into your browser, "big boys don't cry, readers digest", you can read that article online. Don't skip through it. It's important that you really KNOW that men cannot be defined by female standards in emotional terms. This new information has to be cemented into your database, know what I mean?

 

As women, we have to adopt certain things on faith. We will never know what it is to be a man. We'll never be men. Our only way of experiencing manhood is through the eyes of our mate. And unfortunately, he oftentimes lacks the tools to help us do that effectively. It's like describing a color to a blind person, I suppose. So, all we can do is to learn as much as we can... and then extend our reach beyond our own knowledge in a state of active trust.

 

Men are their own worst enemy in this. He might give you his heart-felt emotions in a quiet moment, then he will inevitably undo all his good work in a fit of frustration. So, he might tell you how beautiful you are to him and how he feels closer to you when making love...but he's ALSO told you that if you aren't interested in him sexually, "by God, he'll find someone who is".

 

You're left scratching your head at that point trying to figure out WHICH of those two statements is the "wheat" and which is the "chaff". Because rationally, it doesn't make sense that he wants to be sexual with you because you're special to him and also that he just wants to have sex with just ANYONE. These two statements can't coincide.

 

Which leads us to compartmentalization. In his brain, there's 'sex for fun and exercise' and there's 'sex for showing your feelings'. So yeah... a man is capable of using a woman as an 'entertainment unit' ,

and they inadvertently reinforce our beliefs from girlhood that THAT is their main goal. But just because he's capable of it, doesn't mean there's not validity to the other kind of sex, the one for sharing emotions.

 

This is where a low-libido woman has to take a "leap of faith". She has to CHOOSE to believe her man has the best of intentions where she's concerned, even when his mouth runs ahead of him and he coughs up all that "chaff".

 

Love and Trust are more than just nouns. They're VERBS. We can choose to 'love' actively. We can choose to 'trust' actively. We can show our partner our love by making him a sandwich, ironing his shirt, or... taking him to bed. These are all loving actions which make our partner feel loved and cared for.

 

Active 'trust' is trickier though. We've each got a "stinking thinker" mumbling in our ear, telling us we're going to get hurt, telling us we're a fool for trusting a person who has hurt us with their words previously. Our "stinking thinker" is there to protect us and warn us, and that's a good thing. BUT.... she doesn't want to take emotional risks. So, sometimes we have to tell her to shut up and let us handle things.

 

It's risky to open yourself up to another person. It means you can get hurt. But without taking that emotional risk, you can never be truly close to another person. The risk is necessary, because the alternative is spending our lives ALONE with no one to trust but ourselves. When you put things in perspective, what could be a sadder outcome than that? If you're talking about a GOOD man, and not a bad one... the risk is minimal in comparison to the gain.

 

So, you choose to trust in an active way. If your man tells you that you are beautiful and sexy to him... BELIEVE him. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Tie goes to the runner.

 

If you're like me, years have gone by, and children have been born, and I KNOW that I don't look exactly like the girl he first met. But all I can do is Thank God for my husband's poor eyesight ... and TRUST (a verb) that he knows what he wants. Gravity's depredations may have gotten the better of what was formerly a pretty good thing... but in his eyes, that's still what he sees. He sees the whole ME.

I have to choose to trust that.

 

You can look for THE BEST in the ones you love, or you can look for THE WORST. What you look for is what you'll find, right? I choose to see his motives as pure and loving, not self-serving or Machiavellian. And I choose to see his mistakes as just that, human imperfections where he's 'dropped the ball' but where I know he's going to pick himself up, dust himself off, and get back into the game.

 

So yeah... men give us a mixed message. They show their duality in their compartmentalization of sexual matters. BUT... when it comes to our own husbands, we can choose to take a 'leap of faith' and actively trust that the "compartment" where we reside within him... IS special and unique.

 

 

 

Now, I'm really concerned about the fact that you and your husband have been working in MC for eighteen months and you haven't even seen a medical doctor yet. If you 'walk a mile in your husband's shoes', I think you can see how he might believe that this is NEVER going to be resolved. From his perspective, it must look like he's so unimportant that his agenda isn't worthy of consideration.

 

A woman can be completely healthy and still suffer from low-libido, particularly when there are emotional factors such as previous abuse. Still though, it's important to rule out physical causes. So see your doctor and make it plain that this is a PROBLEM in your life and in your marriage. Make sure they check any meds you're taking for sexual side effects and have them run your thyroid too while they're doing your blood work.

 

 

 

In the meantime, you can't wait for physical urges to be your singular motivation. A woman's brain is her most important sexual organ, particularly in cases of low-libido. You defeat this problem with your mind. You actively change your previous hypnosis, throwing out the old mindset that has damaged your marriage... and you open yourself to a new way of thinking. It's going to take time to absorb new perceptions as your truth.. but you don't have to wait to get started.

 

One thing you can do immediately is to make a decision to accommodate your husband whenever possible. IOW, unless there's a legitimate REASON not to... you say 'yes' to sex. But that's not enough. You bring your enthusiasm to bed with you.

 

We have ALOT of guys in here bitching from time to time about how their wives' don't "initiate". In response to that, I would just say... low-libido women aren't THINKING about sex. The physical urge isn't there so the thought doesn't occur to us. It's important for a man with a low-libido partner to take charge. Afterall, he's the guy who wants more sex. If she's willing to accommodate his desires with "enthusiasm"... getting off his butt and ASKING her for sex is meeting halfway, IMO.

 

Anyway, the key word in all this is "enthusiasm". And it's not as hard to achieve as you might think. Saying 'yes' to sex, is kind of like opening the door to opportunity. It's an opportunity to improve the emotional intimacy of your relationship EVERY TIME you engage in it. It's an opportunity to perfect your technique for giving and receiving active love.

 

Orgasms are nice. But "making love" isn't really about orgasms. Heck, your husband doesn't need you to have an orgasm. You don't need him for it either. But you do need each other if you're going to "make love" together. Think about it. And if you do, you'll realize that his sexual desire for you is an emotional one.

 

What women who are caught in an "old hypnosis" don't realize is that participating enthusiastically as our husband's bedmates ALSO has the potential to emotionally fulfill us as well. IOW, once your old mindset has been discarded and you develop a healthier one... YOU get the same thing out of it that he does. Emotional fulfillment, intimacy, reassurance of love and devotion, and yes... "orgasms and exercise". These things are all yours for the taking. All you have to do is say 'yes' and take them.

 

When it comes to emotional fulfillment, men and women might take different routes, but essentially we all want the same things. Our emotions might take different pathways through the brain... but we all arrive to the same destination, the same feelings.

[PWSX3]

LadyJane that was some REALLY GOOD READING right there!!! (thumbs up, thumbs up)

 

You are correct us guys have sex on our minds all day all night, don't know why but it is there.

I just started a new job with people I have never worked with before & it is funny how the guys always seem to say things to each other that have a sexual content to them even though we don't even know each other that well. We are all the same if you ask me......

 

Nointimacy, I guess a question you need to ask yourself is; do I want my marriage to work? Do "you" want to be the one that has to be the leader?

 

I just went threw a separation & I would say that is your LAST resort. If there is anyway to work things out together under the same roof that is the way to go. I'm not so sure I believe that saying; if it was meant to be then it will come back. I lean towards you have to work for what you want & a marriage takes work.

 

He has already suggested that he is wanting to look around & so like LJ said; he will jump at the first piece of a$$ that will give him that attention he is looking for even if its someone he isn't really attracted to.

 

If you have been going to MC then you know the first thing they tell you, go on dates, look at what got you both together at the beginning.

 

You also said there are a lot of things that happened to you in your childhood, maybe seeing a counselor on your own would be something to think about.

I feel you have to start within & you have to be happy with yourself or you can never be happy with someone else.

 

I think LJ & others here have really given you some good things to think about & you are doing the right thing & looking at your options.

You know things aren't going well in the neighborhood & you are really looking at ways to make that neighborhood a better one & that is a good thing.

[NoIntimacy]

LadyJane:

You have truly been a help in all this and I was just in tears reading everything you wrote today. I wanted to explain that there is not abuse in my marriage, I was only trying to explain that early in the marriage when I said "No" he decided "Yes" and I basically laid there feeling raped again ...pretty much.

At 5:00am this morning a lot of stuff came out as he has been staying out late and not coming home -- saying that he is "giving me space" "time will tell" kinda thing. He was talking to another "lady friend" who called his cell phone a little after he returned home (~3:45am) and I answered. I didn't argue or act wild and crazy but I felt like she shouldn't be calling a married man and especially that early in the morning. I looked through some recent calls he placed and scrolled to some of hte received and started getting a sick feeling about two of the ladies on the list. I went into his myspace and noticed one of them is a "friend".

Maybe that is all wrong, maybe I don't even have a right to be angry or feel anything and after how I've treated him so I don't know what to feel. He told me that pretty much this morning..."what right do you have to even be concerned - I've made one decision and it is to not focus on fixing you or this issue anymore - that is your job if you want to do the work. YOu need to decide, take action on that decision and change will follow. I'm just going to sit back and wait."

Boy was I high stressed and panicing like...."man I need to find a sex therapist, I need to see a doctor to check for any chemical imbalances, I need to get to the point where I FINALLY do CHANGE and he FINALLY does see it and experience the freedom and intimacy in our marriage that he deserves. I am hoping to find one in Seattle Washington or Portland Oregon or SPokane Washington, but so far no luck -- the thing is, though, I'm not going to give up on my marriage --- I LOVE HIM but honestly do feel like I LOVE ME...so I need to work on ALOT.

 

PWSX3 - The answer to your question is YES -- I really want it to work but in order to be a loving "leader" with passion I definitely to get within myself and find the real me underneath all that pain and so I'm going in the direction thanks to all the responses...hopefully this week I find a sex therapist or something close to my area.

 

Have anything more to add -- go right ahead...it's encouraging and supportive -- I truly need it.

[Ladyjane14]

....he has been staying out late and not coming home -- saying that he is "giving me space" "time will tell" kinda thing. He was talking to another "lady friend" who called his cell phone a little after he returned home (~3:45am) and I answered. I didn't argue or act wild and crazy but I felt like she shouldn't be calling a married man and especially that early in the morning. I looked through some recent calls he placed and scrolled to some of hte received and started getting a sick feeling about two of the ladies on the list. I went into his myspace and noticed one of them is a "friend".

Maybe that is all wrong, maybe I don't even have a right to be angry or feel anything and after how I've treated him so I don't know what to feel. He told me that pretty much this morning..."what right do you have to even be concerned - I've made one decision and it is to not focus on fixing you or this issue anymore - that is your job if you want to do the work. YOu need to decide, take action on that decision and change will follow. I'm just going to sit back and wait."

 

That's not good.

At the minimum, it sounds like he's "shopping". At the maximum... he could've already made a "purchase" or two.

 

In this mindset, a man is difficult to reason with. His anger and frustration have reached the boiling point and he's become steeped in his own indignation. He's telling himself things like, "Well, if she doesn't care to have sex, why should she care if I have it with someone else", and "Love and cherish are vows too, why honor a vow of faithfulness if 'love and cherish' are already broken?", and "Life is too short. This frigid woman is NOT going to be the last woman I make love to".

 

It's kind of a process where they rationalize their way out of the fidelity trap. And truthfully, their points do have enough merit to at least sound good on paper. ...If you don't want him, why would you care if someone else does? Why should he waste his life trying to please someone who doesn't care if he's happy?

You gotta admit, these kind of thoughts can turn a man on his head.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right though. And if you're game to finally give it your best shot... you're gonna need his help. You can't practice "making love" without his presence and encouragement. You can't make that "leap of faith" if he's not going to be there to catch you.

 

Keep talking to him. Listen while he's talking to you. Separate out the wheat from the chaff. Bear in mind, he's got a full head of steam, an ax to grind, and he's probably got his eye on another woman or two. He's NOT likely to be fully amenable to bringing his 100% back to the table. There's going to be LOTS of "chaff" mixed in with the "wheat".

 

Try to listen, rephrase, and repeat the things he says to you. That'll help you sort through and find the pertinent information.

 

In the end... you are STILL his wife. And despite whatever problems you've had together, he still needs to respect that. If he's become bent on infidelity as the only viable solution, you'll either have to stand your ground and show him the door or get used to sharing your man with other women.

 

If the goal is a return to emotional intimacy within the marriage, it cannot be served with the introduction of superfluous people. Nix the OWs or you don't have a shot at marital recovery.

[NoIntimacy]

And if you're game to finally give it your best shot... you're gonna need his help. You can't practice "making love" without his presence and encouragement. You can't make that "leap of faith" if he's not going to be there to catch you.

 

I had already decided to give it my best shot and try to work things out. I have made some contacts regarding sex therapist today and should be scheduling an appointment by the end of the week...

 

Last night we had a very very very intimate time together after sharing our hearts with eachother and listening to one another's view on the struggles. It was a very special time just being open and honest and putting aside all the frustration and anger that was building up. We just re-committed to keep the vows we made and to pursue the heart of eachother daily and not just here and there. I told him that "it is my sole intent to move from being irritable to irresistible" when it comes us being intimate together. All I had on my mind today was HIM and making HIM happy....meeting his emotional and sexual needs and not forgetting about taking care of myself in the midst of that.

 

I don't think without the forum I would have moved into that direction as quickly but I'm thankful to God that I found the site when I did and that I ACTED on the response and suggestions immediately to put them to work and let them work for me... so thank you LadyJ.

[PWSX3]

I know you were talking earlier about reading books, etc. & a book that I read and helped me see things different was; His Needs, Her Needs.

 

I feel all the books are similar, but they tell you in a different way sometimes that you understand & that is what that book did for me. Our MC had been telling me those same things, but until I sat down & read them they weren't sticking with me.

Another one that I enjoyed was; The Five Love Languages.

 

It is good to hear you sat down & talked, sometimes that is all it takes to get both parties on the same page.

 

Just an FYI, don't think that just because you sat down & talked things will be better now (been there done that) keep moving forward. You just got to the starting line of the race & you still have a LONG WAYS to go!!!!!

[Ladyjane14]

This is GREAT news.

I was hoping when you didn't post right back that it was because you had bigger fish to fry!

 

I see, PWSX3 has beat me to the punch... making the exact same recommendations that I would make, right down to the book titles. I just want to give him some back-up on what he's telling you about 'being at the starting line with a long way to go'.

 

Picture 'complacency' as a bunch of hidden potholes in the ground. You can't see them unless you're LOOKING for them, so if you go diddy-bopping on your merry way without any sort of vigilance, one or both of you is gonna drop right on through.

 

It's scary to know they're there. But you can't let their presence intimidate you. Because once you know these things are surrounding you... they're easily avoided.

 

There are a couple of tools I use to expose them. The first of which is this:

 

"Prioritize Your Partner's Needs as if They Were Your Own".

This is my guiding principle. I'm here to add to my man's life, not subtract from it. So, if his "needs" are reasonable, then they're just as important as anything I, myself, might need.

(And when I say "reasonable", most things are. But say for example, my husband expresses the "need" to have a threesome or something absurd like that. Hmmm... THAT's not happenin'.)

 

"Face the Conflict."

I used to be a big-time conflict avoider. If my husband pissed me off, I used to just call him and a*hole under my breath and then go lick my wounds.

These days, I might take some time to assess the situation and really LOOK to see if he had a good point or not. It's kind of like a 'cooling off' period, where I check my attitude at the door and analyze the situation from both angles. Sometimes it'll take me a couple of days even. But, if the end of that time I decide he was being unfair with me, I go and hash it out with him. And if it turns our that I was the one who was wrong... I go and tell him so.

You can't let your partner hurt you. That's not in the best interest of the relationship or even in his best interest. It's not active love because it damages the emotional intimacy that he needs as much as you do.

So, if you catch him "subtracting rather than adding" to your life... you've got to call him on it.

 

"Be Considerate"

My husband always accused me of being nicer to other people than I was to him, more considerate of hurting their feelings, etc.

And I fought that viewpoint with everything I had. My stinking-thinker used to tell me that it was only because all these other people were nice to ME, and my husband wasn't.

But this is just like what I told you about "conflict avoidance". Once I did a really honest assessment, my stinking-thinker's argument couldn't hold water. Because at the end of the day... I am RESPONSIBLE for my own choices, and if I'm not CHOOSING to be considerate in every interaction with my husband, then I'm not the driving force of my own life. I'm being reactive instead of active in my life.

 

 

 

There are lots of possibilities when it comes to developing a better way of 'doing business' within your marriage. As you identify what works for you... stay true to it. In so doing, you'll shine a light on all those hidden complacency potholes.

 

Frankly, I don't worry if my husband is living by my new rules. Personal responsibility requires ME to live by them, but I don't enforce anything on him. That fact notwithstanding though, the dynamics of the relationship have become reciprocal.

 

I suppose it's kind of like the contagion of a smile... When you smile at people, they tend to smile back.

[JamesM]

NI, I understand where you are coming from. I do not have much more advice to add than what has been said. LJ has been an extreme help to me, because you see, I am married to a woman like you.

 

If you go back to my first post, you will see some similarities to your past. My wife is a product of sexual,physical and emotional abuse at the hands of her father. She has been in much counseling over the years. But yes, she has resolved much of the issues, but we still have a little sex marriage. We have been married for seventeen years, four kids, and I am very much in love with her. But she does not understand that sex is more than that. To her sex has been enjoyable in the past but no longer is. She will do it once in awhile and even get some enjoyment from it, but it is mostly from her knowing that I want it. Sex has been tainted forever I am afraid, since as a child it was forced upon her. Why it is now an issue again, I don't know, but I am trying to trigger that passion in her again.

 

It has not always been like this. She has had many enjoyable times. She has had orgasms. And she has initiated it many times. Yet she never seems to realize that for me it is as LJ says, it is a validation that she loves me. She can cook, clean, and do little special things (as she sees them), but when she rarely has interest in sex, then I wonder if as a man I lost it. Can I no longer turn on a woman? And most importantly, can I no longer turn on her? Why? Could another man if he had a chance? Does she wish another man had a chance? Yes, I know she was abused. Yes, I know this has affected her, but yes, it is in the past, And we have moved beyond this many times...or so I think.

 

My challenge to you is to make every move possible to take this as your wakeup call. Is this man the most important man in your life? As LJ said, and as a man I can agree, he will be back to YOU...at a moment's notice. I can guarantee it...provided you make some changes today. It is NOT about sex, it is about sex with YOU. He wants an affirmation of his manhood, his love for you , and most importantly, your love for him. And this is done in his mind through sex. So when you have trouble wanting sex, he sees it as you having trouble truly surrendering your body to him out of love and respect to him. There is nothing in the world like the look of love that a woman gets when she looks at her husband with that "I adore you, I respect you, I love you, and I will surrender myself to you" face that can only be had when two people give of themselves completely through sex.

 

I am not being melodramatic. I am probably speaking for your husband right now. Very few men can elaborate those feelings because it just doesn't seem manly. If he cannot even turn on his own wife, what kind of man is he? Why should a man have to work for it so much? Should she not want him?

 

Now it sounds as if he feels he has been rejected so much over these many years (and he has been patient), that he feels hopeless and desperate. He sees no possibility for change. He would love to see something that gives him hope, yet there is now this feeling that nothing will ever change no matter what you say.

 

I think that today you have a chance yet to show him that he is the love of your life and you are going to do everything possible to show him that "I adore you, I respect you, I love you, and I will surrender myself to you" face. Tell him to be patient. Tell him you have received his message. And tell him for the sake of the family to give you another chance. He may do just that.

 

I know that you can. It will take hard work and be emotionally draining, but isn't he worth it?

 

BTW, you may have been sent to this Board to help some of us who are trying to understand why OUR wives no longer want sex with us. Feel free to give opinions on those threads as well.

[NoIntimacy]

In this many years of marriage I can certainly agree that just the "one talk/sitting down/getting on the same" is just at the starting and yes the long road ahead is truly right. What is important though is getting on the same page and applying the tools and communication style that KEEPS you BOTH on the same page for the long haul. It is a start but knowing what it takes to keep you moving along is important.....WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER and that's been the greatest to accept and agree upon.

 

THanks again