Pre-marriage Money Isssues

[Wild Soul]

Hi everyone, I'm new here.

 

My fiancee is 49 (male) and I'm 37 (female.) We've been together almost 3 years. He's been married twice: once for 7 years, and once for 1 year. I've been married once for 6 months. My partner earns about $350,000/year, while I presently earn about $32,000.

 

We have a mature and spiritually-driven relationship. I've never had such an easy and loving relationship, and when stuff comes up we usually handle it quickly and directly. So we both give our best, and I'm looking for some input on how to handle our money issues before we get married.

 

Last Fall, we picked out a house together that he bought with his money. At that point, we got engaged, and then moved in together, along with his 19 year old son. The wedding is in August. Living together has been wonderful. He doesn't want me to pay towards the mortgage, nor major bills. I do buy food, and pay my own phone, etc.

 

I've been going through a nasty inheritance issue w/ my deceased mom's boyfriend, and realizing how important it is to handle money issues. Not wanting to experience this kind of pain again, especially one involving my fiancee's adult children, I brought up the topic of how we're going to handle our money. Now I see why people don't want to talk about this subject! It's hard!

 

We seem to disagree over the idea of community property, and now he thinks he wants a prenup. We both agree that whatever debts/property we have before marriage is separate. However, I agree with CA community property laws that what we earn during marriage is shared. My partner goes crazy at that idea. He wants the house and all equity it gains to be his, even though the mortgage payments will mostly come after we're married. He feels that his income is due solely to his own efforts, so anything he contributes is because he wants to, not because it's "community." He is very generous with paying for things while we're together, but in his mind, if he should die or we get divorced, I'm on my own. I don't want to feel that we're each building separate estates. I wan't to be a financial team, and even though I earn less, I think I'm a great partner and that my contributions are valuable.

 

Do you think one of us is being unreasonable? He's been divorced twice, earns more, and has 2 adult children, so he's understandably more cautious. But I don't want to be set up so that all my contributions, both financial and emotional, go to benefit him only if things don't work out, so that I'm out on the street with nothing. As far as a pre-nup goes, I'm a little bit open to the idea if it's truly a fair deal, though part of me thinks it's a horrible energy to bring into the marriage.

 

I welcome your input, especially if you can see any ground for compromise or negotiation. Thank you so very much!

[Tony T]

There's a good reason why a 49-year-old man has been married twice...once for ONLY seven years....the other for ONLY one year. The seven year one probably got stretched out that long because of the kids...isn't that special. I think you ought to delve into why these marriages failed...and get the "other" sides of the stories.

 

If this man loved you, it would be primary in his mind that you be taken care of in the event he passes. He should also be willing to set forth a formula for you to be taken care of in the event of divorce at various intervals of your marriage.

 

I'm totally on your side here and I think the way a person views finances is the way he views everything else in life. You may be madly in love with this guy and that's why you can't see just how selfish and selfcentered he is. That's also why you can't see that he doesn't care one bit about you...or his very first concern would be that you would be taken care of and your contributions would be reciprocated upon his passing or in the event of divorce (a more likely scenario).

 

Let him submit his prenumptual to you. Take it to your attorney and work up a compromise that takes into consideration your anticipated contributions to the marriage and give it back to him. If he wants to be businesslike, I see no problem with you doing this.

 

I see his side of this but that doesn't make it correct. If he's making all the house payments, he should certainly be willing to provide that in case something happens, it would be sold and you would be provided with sufficient funds to get a smaller home of your own.

 

Another solution is for him to purchase a life insurance policy on himself that would buy you the house upon his death and pass the money proceeds on to his children or other heirs.

 

A lot of people with money think the same way this guy thinks. It's pretty normal. At your ages, neither of you is probably looking for gigantic fireworks and it may be more of a companionate business arrangement anyway. But business agreements should be fair, equitable, and make both parties happy.

 

Don't give up on this until you're satisfied. I do understand his side as far as his desiring to keep what he puts into things. But that's not a marriage at all. Even in a business partnership, the partners share according to a preagreed formula.

 

If I were you, I would get professional financial and legal advice on this matter rather than picking up bits and pieces on an Internet forum. What you are getting yourself into is serious business.

[clia]

I have to say that I disagree..

 

I think it perfectly reasonable that a man who makes 10X what you make might want to protect his estate. I also think it perfectly reasonable that he might want most of his estate to go to his children. I would, however, think that if he cared about you one iota that he would provide for (at least somewhat) in his will. My following comments, thus, are geared toward the divorce situation.

 

However, I agree with CA community property laws that what we earn during marriage is shared.

 

Very easy for you to say when he is the one making all the dough.

 

He wants the house and all equity it gains to be his, even though the mortgage payments will mostly come after we're married.

 

I thought you weren't paying toward the mortgage? Why on earth should you end up with half of what I'm sure is a very nice house when you didn't put anything toward it? Are the two of you planning to have any children? If so, that is a different situation to me, since you will likely take time off raising them, etc., but if you are not raising children...hmm... you will make out like a bandit if the two of you get divorced, and he is very well aware of that.

 

He feels that his income is due solely to his own efforts, so anything he contributes is because he wants to, not because it's "community."

 

Is his income right now not due to his efforts? He is 49 years old and been working most of his life, I'm guessing. He's also been divorced twice and probably lost a great deal of money then. IMO, he is being smart and looking out for himself. If the two of you stay together forever, you don't need to worry about this one bit.

 

I wan't to be a financial team, and even though I earn less, I think I'm a great partner and that my contributions are valuable.

 

Of course you are contributing valuable things, other than money, but when all is said and done, a divorce settlement is focused on money and possessions, not love and care and emotional support. He will likely be giving you love and care and emotional support as well during the course of your marriage.

 

Do you think one of us is being unreasonable?

 

I think you are. I don't feel that you are getting a bad deal, here. (Unless he excludes you from his will, which I think is not acceptable.) You get to live in a beautiful house you likely could not afford on your own, you say he pays for everything...

 

How are your financial contributions contributing him? It sounds like he is paying for your living expenses...so open up a bank account, deposit your paycheck in it each week, and you won't have to worry about ending up on the street should things go awry.

 

I think you need to talk to him about (1) what happens if he dies--do you lose the house? Where will you live? He can set up his will so you can live in the house until your death, and then it transfers to his children. Hell, he can set up his will to do anything.

 

As far as the prenup, I'm sure the two of you can sit down together and come up with a compromise. I'd be shocked if he didn't ask you to sign something. Perhaps you could start paying half the mortgage on the house? Why *do* you want access to his money so badly? If you love him and don't think you are going to get divorced, why worry about the pre-nup? If the marriage does end, you are no worse off than you are now (probably better, in fact, since you aren't paying any living expenses.)

 

I do agree with Tony that you should probably start talking to a lawyer about this to get some legal advice.

[ThisGirlNameKD]

I agree with both Clia and Tony. This man has been married twice and his last marriage only lasted for one year. You've been married and yours only lasted for 6 months. Now, I don't know how soon after the divorces the both of you have gotten involved, but that's an issue that both of you need to sit down and discuss. Perhaps on his end it could have been because of his views on handling finances.

 

It seems that you are too concern with the financial situation, when in fact you are in a good financial situation. You work yourself so you don't have to depend on him for money. Just as Clia said, take the money, open up a bank account and save your own money that way you will be taken care of financially in the event that something goes wrong. That's just being financially responsible. By you coming at him with this it seems like you're more so concern about marrying his money than marrying him. But once again as the others have suggested, get this situation straightened out before you get married.

[Wild Soul]

Thanks for replying. Yes, the reason for past marriages failing is important to look at. Brief background:

 

Him: First marriage started in 1975-and ended in 1982. He has told me that they grew apart, and didn't get along. He willingly paid child/spousal support, more than the court ordered. He doesn't talk to the first wife except when necessary about the kids, which is very seldom. I met her. She seems like a good person. Second marriage started in 1995, ended in 1996. Both had kids. She was very wealthy, and made him sign a prenup. They moved into her house. Apparently, she treated his kids badly compared with her own, and it was really awful for them. They were trying to blend families, which is notoriously hard. Four years passed before he met me.

 

Me: In 1994, I met someone out clubbing and we had an immediate overwhelming attraction. We dated only a couple months before getting married. It turned out that he was bisexual with what turned into a really bad speed addiction. I ended it after six months because it was unfixable. I got my act together, and met him 5 years later.

 

It's not that I'm greedy or trying to get something from him, but rather that I need to know that I'm not going to be in a bad situation if he dies or we get divorced. Both my parents (divorced) recently died suddenly of cancer, in their mid 50's. I'm dealing with the consequences of their mistakes right now. My mom's boyfriend is living in the house my mom bought, with his new wife, and is spending our estate money any way he wants, thanks to a trust that he wrote 2 days before she died. I'm having to spend every cent I can scrape out of my budget for a lawyer, just to try to stop this situation. So I'm hyper-aware of not wanting to create a similar situation for my partner, his kids, and myself.

 

Tony, I like your idea of a life insurance policy. That would provide the emergency money necessary if my partner died. Still, like Clia sais, it doesn't seem right that I wouldn't be included in his will. If I die, all my stuff would go to him since I don't have children. I would definitely want his children to inherit a large portion of my estate as well.

 

If he wants to do a prenup, then he's going to have to get something from his lawyer soon, so that I can take it to mine for review. I don't want to be pressured to sign something AFTER the wedding invitations are sent and so forth. Do you think I should suggest that he has it done by a certain date? The wedding is August 31st. Does that seem like a good idea or is it too much like a mandate?

 

Thanks.

[HokeyReligions]

You got some great advice and it seems like you are on the right path.

 

I do think that you two should select dates for the progress of the prenup. You each might want to start by writing down everything you expect and want to happen in the event of separation by divorce or death. Do this separately - not together, and be honest. Then give each other a copy so that the lawyers have something to work with. Depending on how busy the lawyers are, it may take a month or two to review and refine the prenup so that it meets both of your requirements.

 

Make an agreement before you do anything that you will not let what the other one says upset you and that you both understand you are doing the mature thing and know that it can cause emotions to run high. Try not to feel hurt or hurt the other because of what others say.

 

It is very difficult when one partner makes so much more than the other. It shouldn't be a big factor - but it is.

 

We are going thru something with my in-laws right now, that is horrible. I have basically told everyone that I want nothing, but they want their son to have something -- but what he gets is dependent on our marriage - and there are other siblings who want everything and it's a big mess -- and the in-laws aren't even dead yet!

 

Good Luck

[Angel]

I think all of the advice given is very good. But don't short change yourself either. He is getting the benefit of being with a younger woman----to men, that is worth it's weight in gold. Men marry for physical attraction (at least that's first on their list) and women marry for security (that's first on their list). He's getting what he wants----MAKE SURE YOU DO TOO, and don't feel guilty about it, I am sure he doesn't. You don't have to be greedy, but make sure you're taken care of. That's what I would advise my daughter. I am sorry about the loss of your parents. Talk to older women about this----you'll get good advice!

[Baubles]

Strange, your post related to my situation w/ my now ex-boyfriend-only opposite. he makes 440,000 plus bonuses while I am at 50 and will never make that kind of money. I was the opposite of you, I was very used to being self-sufficient and found that amount of income staggering and HIS if we married. Kinda ludicrous now but I felt weird with him even buying me a fancy meal- when my tastes are more budget-restrictive. My boyfriend though made it clear though if we married it was no longer about his money and my money, but "ours". I had a harder time w/ "our" money than he. Still, I would have signed a pre-nup if asked (if we had gotten that far) and told him so and not thought twice about it. Sure I could be a loving partner, but did I think I would deserve half of his earnings....no. I always felt if we had children then a pre-nup should be voided- it's different then. I cannot imagine marrying to need to be taken care of- if you're marrying for financial security- then perhaps that is a problem if he wants a pre-nup.. Otherwise, if you have no children and work...

 

Good luck! Perhaps you could agree to a pre-nup that applies only to the first 3-5 yrs of marriage, after that it's void as a compromise? By then, he should feel more secure.

Just my thought.

[amorsiempre]

well honey my view is that (although my boyfriend disagrees) if you marry.. you think of it as forever. why go in saying, ohhhh well if we break up well have a prenup so what is mine stays mine. i dont care how much he makes or how much you make. its a partnership and it should stop being his or your money and turn into 'our' money....

 

am i making sence?