My mother's situation

[PandorasBox]

I decided to post this here because its about being a christain and forgiveness.

 

About 2 years ago, my mothers sister said something to her that hurt my mothers feelings pretty bad. I talked to my mother and my mothers sister (my aunt) about it. So I got both versions. I have a tendency to lean towards my aunts version. The reason being, I agree with her in the fact that my mother has a tendency to take things people say the wrong way, and I really think what my aunt said was not meant to make my mother mad or hurt her feelings, and I do feel she took it the wrong way. She refused to talk to my aunt or even hear her side, which to me is wrong. She turned hear nose up like she was a goody goody and that she was 100 percent right in feeling the way she did even though she didn't have all the facts.

 

Anyway, my mother is a christain lady and attends church and bible study. She said she talked with some of the ladies at the church about it, and they sided with her in the fact, they feel what my aunt said was wrong as well. Of course they are only getting my mothers side too.

 

My mother has said she will not forgive my aunt for her comment. The comment was not even that bad of a thing actually, but I guess my mother felt it was. My question is, since she is a christain lady, looks to me like she would forgive her sister even though it may have hurt her. Yet she says she wont. I asked her if the ladies at church/bible study group, if they have told her she needed to forgive. She told me they told her they didn't blame her if she didn't forgive. I'm sorry, I don't get that. Church ladies would tell someone something like that? Looks like they would encourage her to forgive.

 

Anyway, what I don't get is, she has forgiven people in the past for saying things and doing things far worse than this. She even forgave an ex b/f of hers years and years ago (before she met my dad of course) for abusing her. But she can't forgive her sister? They had always had a really good relationship too.

 

So my question is, shouldn't she forgive her, if she is such a christain? Would christain church ladies not encourage her to forgive?

[Moose]

In short......yes she should forgive.

 

And no, Christians, (men or women) would, (should) not side with an unforgiving Spirit.

[JackJack]

She refused to talk to my aunt or even hear her side, which to me is wrong. She turned hear nose up like she was a goody goody and that she was 100 percent right in feeling the way she did even though she didn't have all the facts.

 

*She doesn't sound much like a christain lady. I mean, she can't even listen to what someone has to say, thats pretty bad and un christain like. Sounds like your mother is more focused on wanting to be right on something than mending fences and being happy with her sister again.

 

 

I'm sorry, I don't get that. Church ladies would tell someone something like that? Looks like they would encourage her to forgive.

 

*Whose to say, that haven't told her she should forgive? Maybe she is just telling people that, to validate how she feels on the matter. And if by chance these ladies at her church are not encouraging her to forgive, then they don't sound like the best church group to hang out with.

 

 

She even forgave an ex b/f of hers years and years ago (before she met my dad of course) for abusing her. But she can't forgive her sister?

 

*Perhaps, it hits more close to home for your mother because maybe, even though your aunt hurt your mother with what she said, maybe what she said, to your mother, your mother knew was right and didn't want to face it?? Therefore it is harder for her to forgive.

[quankanne]

sounds like your mom might have other issues with your aunt, but is using this particular incident to justify her very un-Christian response. And sharing only her side of the "story" with her church cronies knowing that they would respond a certain way just reinforces her decision to behave that way.

 

it is scandalous to see that kind of behavior in someone who should know better, even if they are truly justified in their hurt. Gently remind your mother that Jesus wants us to love one another just as we love God, and that in putting impediments in her relationship with your aunt and not considering forgiveness is something that the Devil encourages. That should put her tail into gear!

[PandorasBox]

Thanks Moose, Jack and quank, I agree with you all.

 

I will be glad when/if they put this to rest and my mother forgives her, and they can go on with things. Makes family functions and get togethers kind of uncomfortable.

 

I love my mother and aunt alot and hate to see this happening. My mother however, has always been one to play the victim role and pump things up more than what they truly are. I hate to say that, but its true. And Jack, you're correct, my mother is always concerned about wanting to be right. Doesn't matter if she has all the facts or not, she just wants to be right about things, bad or good.

 

quank, you may be right that my mother has other issues with my aunt, but I'm not sure what they are. My mother really loves to go around saying she thinks my aunt is jealous of her. But she says that about alot of people, she thinks they are jealous of her. If someone tells my mother something she doesn't care to hear, its automatic she will say, "Well, I think so and so is jealous of me and thats why they said those things."

 

I simply do not get that at all, and it blows my mind. But she truly believes people are jealous of her if they make a comment about something that she doesn't care to hear. I have kind of watched a pattern with her over the past year or so. But my mother likes to surround herself with people who sugarcoat things or tell her what she likes to hear. If someone tells her the truth about something even though it may hurt her feelings or make her mad, even if she knows it to be true what someone else is saying, she'll drop them and say they are jealous:confused:. Even her own family, which seems to be obvious with her sister. Why? I don't understand. Not christain like to me.

 

I think I'm going to tell my mother next time she has bible study with these church ladies I would like to go with her. I may even bring up the subject of forgiveness and see what the ladies have to say. Not sure if that is a good idea, but might be worth a shot.

[quankanne]

I don't understand. Not christian like to me.

 

some of the additional stuff you've posted about her personality makes it clearer about why she is the way she is.

 

I think that people sometimes would rather stay mired in their beliefs (whether it's prejudice, anger, hurt, etc) than allow themselves the possibility of improving themselves because they feel this is their whole identity, and to change those beliefs is to lose themselves, rather than improve. Or, in your mom's case, it's much more comfortable to say "X is jealous of me" and put the burden on X for his/her behavior, rather than to really dig down deep to find out why she feels this way, and if there's a way to improve or change that response. Because change can be scary, especially when it means coming to terms that you're not as good or nice or beautiful or wonderful as you've made yourself out to be.

[PandorasBox]

I don't understand. Not christian like to me.

 

some of the additional stuff you've posted about her personality makes it clearer about why she is the way she is.

 

I think that people sometimes would rather stay mired in their beliefs (whether it's prejudice, anger, hurt, etc) than allow themselves the possibility of improving themselves because they feel this is their whole identity, and to change those beliefs is to lose themselves, rather than improve. Or, in your mom's case, it's much more comfortable to say "X is jealous of me" and put the burden on X for his/her behavior, rather than to really dig down deep to find out why she feels this way, and if there's a way to improve or change that response. Because change can be scary, especially when it means coming to terms that you're not as good or nice or beautiful or wonderful as you've made yourself out to be.

 

 

Thanks quank. Do you think its ok for me to tell her I would like to go with her to her bible study church group and see what they have to say? I mean, its going to have to be up to her to forgive, but I can't see why someone would want to hold onto hurt and not forgive someone, maybe its a power/control thing too.

[quankanne]

by all means, but be covert about it: Say something like, "Ma, I'm really interested in meeting some of your friends and joining in your Scripture study," then see if they start up with the people-bashing. Hee hee, then you can sweetly add your two cents about how everytime they do stuff like that, They Make the Baby Jesus Cry.

 

... or is that just a Catholic guilt-inducing method? :laugh:

 

or you could even steer that day's lesson toward the need for forgiveness of others and of self – about how it can be hard, but it's something that as Christians we are called to do if we are to truly follow in Jesus' footsteps. I don't remember the chapter or verse, but there's a part in the New Testament where Jesus gives Peter the keys to the kingdom and tells him "whatever you hold bound on earth, is bound in heaven; and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven." I believe he's talking about forgiveness of sins here ... and forgiveness in general.

[EnigmasMuse]

In short......yes she should forgive.

 

And no, Christians, (men or women) would, (should) not side with an unforgiving Spirit.

 

 

I agree with Moose. Not to sound mean or harsh, but your mother sounds kind of selfish. I was always taught to listen and hear out what others have to say, and for her to not even talk to or hear what her sister has to say, is childish, and pretty vain really. She comes across as being to good to listen to what soemone else has to say, and that she thinks she is better than others. I agree too, that these women in her church should help her to forgive. Does she feel forgiveness is a sign of weakness? Because to me, NOT forgiving is a sign of weakness. Pray that your mother really sees the light on this matter, because its obvious she is seeing only what she wants.

[Sweet Chestnut]

I think that many people who are not willing to admit theire own mistakes, and who do not want to recognise they did wrong often use the word "jealous" abusivly, as if it could excuse everything and anything they could ever do or say.

I have actually soem expl about it.

The fact remain that often people saying that soemone else is jealous are people who are feeling jealous themselves, of the eprosn they are accusing of being jealous of them, and who will deny it solely, with lots of arrogance in theire ways and tone.

I think your mum is too arrogant toa dmit her own wrong, and it si a sin.

Say it to her.

The best way to proceede here will be to go to church and have a tlak with the priest there and have him tlak oyur mum to senses.

I dont understand how she can still anger on her sister after 2 years for so little! And not feeling any remorse for doing so!

It is typical of people who dont want to accept their wrong doing, they will rather make matter worse and accuse the person wrongly of many things than estalish a bridge and repent and make peace.

I do not understand that mentality, and for a christian it is even worse, she should found in God and in her Faith the courage to coem over her worse pride.

She commit the sin of pride and you should tell her that.

maybe have her watch " the Passion of Christ" to remind her what her religion is about. And how little is asked from her to be a good sister again.

I will also uggest you to meet with her ladies from church and confront them with their saying and ask them if they really belive in Christ since they advised your mum to do the opposit than what Christ advise all christians to do: To forgive.

Some people think so high of themselves, that they dont even face the wrong they are doing and will rather ahve someone else carry the burden for them.. by calling others jealous, or reproaching them for doing things those person never did, bt that they did to them..

There is many people like that around, and htey make themself pretty convincing, like if htey beleived themself this to be the truth!

But i think that inside they know perfectly they are lying, and it hurt them too much to admit it, as it will give them an image of themselves they are not at all ready to accept as being true.

Just as quankanne said above.

The worse is that the more they are proved wrong, the more they do wrong, and the worse they get, just to wash their hands away from the truth, blinding themselves and others in the process.

In a desperate attempts to keep things as they were, and to dont chnage their way, as this will crave for them to repent and acknowledge they were wrong and they did wrong.

Talk to your mum about repentance and forgivness and sin of pride, and to be blinded by it.

 

Good luck with you, and dont forget to talk to the priest, your aunt has suffer for too long, and your mum been proud long enough

[PandorasBox]

... or is that just a Catholic guilt-inducing method?

 

Well we aren't Catholic so not sure.

 

 

 

 

Pray that your mother really sees the light on this matter, because its obvious she is seeing only what she wants.

 

EM, I do, and I agree she sees and hears what she wants.

 

 

The fact remain that often people saying that soemone else is jealous are people who are feeling jealous themselves, of the eprosn they are accusing of being jealous of them, and who will deny it solely, with lots of arrogance in theire ways and tone.

 

It is typical of people who dont want to accept their wrong doing, they will rather make matter worse and accuse the person wrongly of many things than estalish a bridge and repent and make peace.

 

Thanks Sweet Chestnut, thats probably true.

 

I will keep you all updated on things. I will mention going with her to her church group bible study too.

[PandorasBox]

Here is an update on this situation.

 

I went with my mother to one of her bible study groups. The same ladies, who I had mentioned before. Things were going well, they were discussing different bible verses etc. I casually brought up the subject of forgiveness and maybe looking into some bible verses on that. They thought it was a good idea.

 

It just kind of went from there, and we began discussing forgiveness and how important it is to do that, and to find peace with things and others. I decided I wanted to discuss that I knew of someone who wouldn't forgive another. of course it was my mother who I was speaking of and she was sitting beside me. I expressed to her my concern and wanted to let her know I loved her and her sister alot. I didn't like to see this kind of thing going on between them. One of the ladies started to ask me some questions. They said they had already heard from my mother and that it was somethig they discussed one day not long ago.

 

I proceeded to tell my aunt's side of the story, since I know both sides, hers and my mothers. And since the ladies asked, and had only heard my mothers side. After I told them my aunts side, things came to a head and they began to tell my mother how they did feel it was important to forgive her sister. So it really can make a difference how things are viewed once people have the whole story, and not just one side. When my mother gave the story, they only went on what she said, now they know the other side, it seems things changed.

 

My mother was mad and walked out of the room. This was yesterday afternoon we had the bible study. She wont talk to me now. I calld her several times left messages, I told her I was sorry I didn't mean to hurt her feelings or make her mad. I told her I only wanted all this mess with her and her sister to end.

 

I feel really bad. Maybe I should, I don't know. Shes really good at making people feel like crap though, wheather they did something or not. I'm worried about her. She wont forgive, she thinks shes always right about things, she thinks others are jealous of her if they tell her something she doesn't want to hear. She only tells her side of things, she pumps things up more than what they really are. Is she just in denial about things in general, or could there be something really wrong with her, like some kind of mental thing? I don't know what to think about it anymore, and now shes mad at me too.

[EnigmasMuse]

IMO, I think you going with ehr to the bible study was good and so was talking to the other ladies about it with your mom there.

 

If you mother didn't have something to feel bad about, then she wouldn't have gotten up and walked out. She told her side to these ladies she knew (which happens when only one person is there to tell their side) and its more than likely they did NOT tell her to not forgive her sister, especially once they told her she needed to after you told the other side. She probably only said that to make her situation look more pityful, and for others to side with her so she would feel justified.

 

I can't say if she has a mental thing going on or if shes just in denial about things because I don't know for sure. hopefully someone else can answer that for you. I can honestly say though she doesn't seem to have a problem with hurting her family. She wont listen to her sister and now she wont listen to you and is mad at you. Seems she does have a problem with the truth. I hope your mother comes around though. Pretty soon she is going to run everyone off and she wont have no one. Maybe these ladies can help become more christain like, by learning to accept the truth about things sometimes without shutting others out.

[quankanne]

it's good that you were able to get another side of the story presented at the Bible study, though I imagine your mother will chose to be unforgiving than to see this as way to change her uncharitable heart. And at some point you're going to have to stand up for what you did (bringing up the issue of forgivness and wanting to help her and your aunt to reconcile), and stand up proudly. Because I don't think she's going ever consider an apology good enough for what she sees as "loss of face" as delivered by her child.

 

pray for her, and ask the members of her church group pray for her, too: because really, only God can bring change to a hardened heart like hers.

 

meanwhile continue to let her know that you love her, and ignore any hurtful stuff she may pull – you're looking at the big picture, and she's not.

 

is it some kind of mental thing? it's pride and vanity, plain and simple ...

[PandorasBox]

Thanks EM and quank.

 

quank I'll continue to let her know I love her and care, and I'll try to ignore anything she may do or say that is hurtful. Hopefully she will one day see the light, and be able to forgive.

 

 

is it some kind of mental thing? it's pride and vanity, plain and simple

 

I agree with this. Its sad too, that she is like this, not sure where it came from. I don't ever remember her being like this before all this happened. Thanks again to all.