recently separated from wife.... ??

[Mike1966]

I appreciate and consider all opinions.

 

In response, Topper, I appreciate what you're say and, yes, right now my wife is not accepting any blame whatsoever. Did she have any faults during our marriage, yes. However, at this time, she's going to need to get past her current self-focus before she'll ever take a look at herself. Right now she's focusing on the hurts I've caused her.

 

As for a possible affair, anything is possible. I've read more stories and books on relationships this past 1 1/2 months than in my whole life. It seems for each relationship that exhibits signs of an affair......i.e. emotoinal shutdown, stops wearing wedding ring, increased internet time.....endless list.........50% of the time it's an affair, the other 50% the spouse just wants out to get some breathing room, to get their focus/understanding back.

 

The conversation last night with my wife, when she was crying and had no defenses left, clearly showed me by the words coming out of her mouth that another man is the absolute last thing on her mind right now and there is nothing happening, period. She's actually considering going to stay with her uncle to help someone open a design/decorating shop for 30 days. It is about 800 miles from where we live. Her uncle and his buddy are gay so no issues there, and, she's never been there before so she knows absolutely no one at all. Tough for me to think if she's seeing someone else that she would go there when at that point she wouldn't be able to see that person either.

 

I can tell you this, after 15 years of marriage to this woman, I know deep down she still loves me even though she said she didn't when she wanted to separate. I can see the hurt I've caused her for a number of reasons and am committed to changing myself to meet her needs which is what a true marriage is all about IMO. It isn't 50/50...........its 100/100, each spouse giving 100% to meet the others needs. Before my wife will be able to take a look at herself she's going to have to forgive the hurt I've caused, trust me again (which she's said), then maybe look at things she may have contributed to our demise............lack of communication maybe??

 

I struggle with thinking she wants someone else if she keeps emailing or talking to me and trying to get me to understand the hurt I've caused and the things I've done.............why would she even care if deep down she didn't want it to work? At the end of the day, even if there did happen to be someone else, I'll find out eventually and then i can decide when the time is right to move on. We've got two wonderful kids and I dearly love my wife so I'm going to be damn sure i've done everything I can to save my marriage. At the end of the day, if it doesn't end up working out, I want to be able to respect myself for trying absolutely as hard as I can to work this out.

 

I'm not ranting and I do deeply appreciate EVERYONE'S input. It's great to have prospective of people who hav been there. All situations are not the same even though some have many similarities, you can always extract some bit of helpful information from all situations.

 

Thanks.

[Mz. Pixie]

Ya know, I said all those same things to my exhusband when I was having an affair- need space, this is about me, not you- there is no other man etc.

 

All of that BS about we might get back together after divorce is just fog talk.

 

I've been reading relationship books for a long time- and visiting forums reading and giving advice- I'd say that in almost every circumstance I've read about when a wife leaves her husband- moves into an apt and is not interested in reconciling it's because she's got her eye on someone else or is involved with someone else.

 

And, the part where she got angry about your reaction to finding her with another man?? Typical- now she doesn't want to reconcile "BECAUSE YOU CAUGHT HER". That's fog talk too!

 

Please, please- hire a PI or borrow a friends car and find out what's really going on. I bet that this guy is still coming by her place, etc. I know that is not what you want to hear but it's possible that she is having an affair and in fact left you for this guy. It's also not about what he looks like etc- it's about what she's getting out of the affair that she's addicted to. If he's meeting her needs he could have two heads and she wouldn't care!

 

Have you been to marriage builders? Google it. There is alot of great advice there- you can read about people in your same situation.

[Mike1966]

I'm so emotionally distraught. I talk with my wife who I have a hard time believing could be so emotional but yet be in control enough with her defenses up to lie about there being someone else. The other night on the phone, she was in tears talking about the lack of my supporet for her desires over the years and that this whole situation absolutely wasn't about anyone as she didn't want another man, just the freedom from me to do what she wants, be creative without be squelching her ideas. Can't it just be about this and not an affair?

 

I've gone back and forth........................what about the other people on this board and others that have similar situations where the wife left just to have space and there was no affair? How can you tell the difference? Is there a chance, looking at my situation, that my wife merely wants space from stress and hurt I've caused? Does it have to be an affair?

 

I'm distraught and feel like hell today. I want to believe that if I invest the time in this and show my wife I love her unconditionally that this can work. She has said that it would take me changing and for her to trust me again for this to work, again, can't she feel this way and have it not be about another man? Is it ALWAYS about someone else in this type of situation?

 

I'd love to hear from woman or man having experienced this when there was no affair whatsoever. Does this happen? What about lysne on this board? She left her husband over hurt and is allowing him to try and earn her trust back?

[Mz. Pixie]

It can happen. But, women usually do not leave without an emotional safety net.

 

Out of all the people that I know- where the wife left the husband- only one time did it really end up being about trying to get the H to change. She left him got an apartment, but went to counseling with him and when she really saw change they ended up back together. He was very very controlling- checking the mileage on her car etc. Neither of them saw anyone else during the separation.

 

Did you wife have a cell phone? Have you checked the calls on there? Checked to see if there were text messages?

 

Here's what I think. Don't stick your head in the sand about this being a possibility. She has agreed not to talk to him right? Well just check up on her for yourself to see if she's following that or not. Just do that much. Check the cell phone bill and run by her place a couple of times when she doesn't have the kids, etc. Then you'll really have an answer about what's going on.

 

Most cheaters do not come clean until they are completely caught- I mean evidence! They will lie, lie, lie.

 

You need to find out the truth to protect yourself. Do not sign anything until you figure out what's really going on here.

 

I certainly will say I'm sorry if I end up being wrong, but I do not think I am.

I'm sorry.

[Mike1966]

Okay,

 

Say a prayer for me. I'm taking the step to hire a private investigator to find out hopefully for sure if there's someone else. Even if she is just establishing a relationship with someone I don't know of, or with the former "mutual" friend we have that I caught her alone with.................whether it's just friends for now, starting to get closer, or it has gone intimate.....................the not knowing is killing me and it's obvious I can't trust her.

 

My week with the kids starts tonight and I'm still staying in a different town than her so this evening and tomorrow evening are prime time for something to happen if it is going to. Unfortuately, the PI can't work tonight but can tomorrow night so we'll see what happens.

 

I almost hate myself for hiring a PI. Even if she was starting to see someone else, or was seeing someone else, I love my wife and might still try to work this out. I just want the truth and want to be able to confront her with it so we can make a decision. Right now she is content being separated but she could just be buying time then divorce me anyway. I'm going to have to pay alimony and support anyway so if there's no chance for our marriage I'd like to get it started (the alimony) so I can be done with it quicker. We had already worked out an agreement which I believe could be worse if a divorce ends up bitter, so I'll try to not blow my cool no matter what.

[Topper]

If you have not already done so. Talk to your own lawyer. That agreement you worked out seems to me to be one sided.

The only way she will ever come to terms with her own failings is to have some outside source present the evidence to her.

 

Here is something to think about. most woman can tell when their man is having an affair. They are just more in tune to the signs.

Most men will claim as you that there is no way my wife is having an affair. We as men are for the most part blind to what is really in front of us.

also woman are just so much better at manipulation then men can ever be.

rather then go to counseling she leave and puts the blame on you. your the bad guy she is the victim. In all these years did nothing to improve your situation? Did she suggest that the two of you get help?

even if she isn't seeing anyone she is emotional gone from you. You will get nothing but heartache if you try to win her back.

get a lawyer my friend.

[Mike1966]

Topper,

 

I agree with most of what you are saying. I may seek legal advice at this point but trust me, in my state, since my wife has not worked since we have been married, offering her 1/2 my salary 2 yrs then standard child support until 18 yrs old is actually in my favor. If it goes to a judge I may end up having to pay her alimony until she gets a college degree or something.

 

The reason I'm trying to save my marriage is that for 15 years we've actually been in love and had a pretty solid marriage. She would have agreed with that statement up until 2-3 months ago. I have no idea what the hell changed so fast...............yes, maybe someone else. Also, she's highly emotional...always has been, could be pre-menopause or even a mental thing or chemical imbalance, bi-polar, depressed?? It doesn't have to be another person all the time and I have read many instances where it wasn't............just a wife feed up with her husband and wanting him to change but believing he wouldn't.

[Mz. Pixie]

Say a prayer for me. I'm taking the step to hire a private investigator to find out hopefully for sure if there's someone else. Even if she is just establishing a relationship with someone I don't know of, or with the former "mutual" friend we have that I caught her alone with.................whether it's just friends for now, starting to get closer, or it has gone intimate.....................the not knowing is killing me and it's obvious I can't trust her.

 

 

I'm glad you decided to do this, just in case. If nothing is going on then you have nothing to worry about, but if it is then you'll have peace of mind knowing you're not crazy.

 

If nothing is going on you do not have to tell her you hired a PI.

 

Something is just not right about this whole thing- it smells fishy. I certainly hope it's not but it's smart for you to do this just in case.

[Darth Vader]

But, if something is going on, then you can show her the proof, then go for sole custody of the children! You'll pay less, and the children won't be around her and her loser boyfriends who may use drugs, abuse your wife and children, when I say abuse, I mean any and all kinds of abuse! It doesn't have to be this guy who she banging, it could be someone who you never met!

[Mike1966]

Yes,

 

At the very least, if it is proven she doesn't have anything going on I'll have some peace of mind and can continue just being separated for awhile. Talked to the wife tonight when picking up the kids and it didn't go well...............she was all "done up", looked like she was going out on a date which is what I told her......I know I shouldn't have but what the hell. Wearing perfume too which she never did, had a ring on in place of her wedding ring but she hasn't wore that for awhile anyway.

 

i stayed and talked with her about the separation for awhile and it wasn't terrible but we did argue some. I expect to get a call from her in a few days saying she wants to go ahead with the divorce. She says she hasn't even had any space. I told her the last few weeks she's called me as much as I've called her which is true, except for the last few days anyway. i admit the last couple of days i've initiated some contact with her.

 

i told her it seems deep down like she still loved me, she was pretty cold like yeah I kind of wish i had feelings for you but I don't really. Whatever.

 

The PI called me a few time tonight. The wife didn't waste anytime leaving her apartment as she was gone by the time he went by about 1/2 hour after I picked up our kids. We have an address where the guy friend is staying and he is on his way there. Then I told him to go by the house we're selling to see if she may be out there. I wish he'd have followed her earlier this evening as i think we'd have hit pay dirt if anything is going on. The town we live in isn't that big but probably big enough he won't find her if she is just out. As far as I know she doesn't have any girlfriends close enough to go out with or that are single and go out.

 

Darth - unfortuately, in my state an affair doesn't really seems to matter much when it comes to custody or money. It would be nice if it were true as I really would make sure things were more in my favor. Still burns me up I'll end up paying her a nice salary for a few years and she won't even have to work while i've worked my butt off for years to make good money, provide for our family and pay the bills.

 

I'll keep everyone posted. No matter how this turns out hopefully the information will be used to help someone else who may be going down this path.

[PWSX3]

I don't agree or disagree with the PI idea. I guess it might be because when my W moved out she said it was because she needed her space & that she wanted to be able to do things for herself so I didn't really believe it was because of another man so I didn't even go down that road. I say give her the separation (no contact) she has asked for & time will tell you if she is seeing someone.

 

I do feel you are spending to much time worrying about what she is doing. Right now she is doing what "SHE" has told you, she wants her space to do what she wants so she is going out.

When is the last time she went out with friends? When is the last time she was able to just let her hair down & you watched the kids?

I have friends that there wives stay home all day & then at night they are ready to go do something but the H is to tired so they just stay home.

 

After my W moved out I went out with my buddy, I bought some new cloths, lost weight, etc. & even went country dancing.

That is something I would never do when we were together because the W didn't want to so I never did.

I have learned that I can do things even if the W doesn't want to do them & maybe that is what your W is needing, wants to just find out who she is.

I wasn't dressing up to meet other woman, I was dressing up because it made "ME" feel good. I lost the weight because it made "ME" feel good.

 

I have said it before & I'll say it again; YOU need to give her the space she is asking for, I think you have pushed her to the edge so now it is up to you if you want to push her over or do you want her to look over the edge, say; no I don't want to go down that road & let her walk away from the edge. I know this is very hard to do. Our first month the W didn't want any contact so to show her I was going to change that is what I did, I didn't call or talk to her for anything, even if I ended up in the hospital I told my folks I would NOT call.

[Mike1966]

Point taken.

It seems like there is so much conflicting advice on what to do in these situations. Maybe being online so much isn't helping me. On the one hand I hear that when a woman needs space it's not what she really wants................on the other hand people say it is and to leave them alone.

 

Even though I have paid the PI retainer I will try to focus less on her. i suppose it takes a little of the stress off me since I dont' feel I have to know whats going on. Maybe that's not the right attitude but who knows whats right or wrong when it comes to this stuff. I'm going to let him work for me until the retainer is used..................if there is someone else i want to know so i can at the least confront it. Who knows, I might even be able to forgive but I don't think i could continue if it didn't stop.

[PWSX3]

Just like the TV add for pizza, you ask if you want thin or thick crust & you will get half the people saying one & the other saying the other half & then you will get some that want Mexican so what do you do????

 

You just need to start working on what you want, what you can do & that is it & then see how the rest plays out.

 

For those that have had bad divorces will tell you to dump her, for those such as myself that is still working on there relationship will tell you to keep trying, BUT GIVE HER THE SPACE SHE WANTS!!! & then there is anything & everything in between....

 

Each day you will feel this way, then it turns around & you feel like that. Up, down, to the right, to the left. It is very confusing & you never know if you are doing the correct thing or not.

 

It is still all fresh & you have so many questions going through your head so just think what the W is doing?

 

You are human & you want things fixed now, you don't want to wait, but time does help, with time you will start to think, look more into the relationship & things will start to become more clear....

[Mike1966]

LOL, PWSX3.....

 

Mexican pizza...............that's about what I feel like right now!

 

Your post has possibly spoken to me more than any so far. As for the PI, he said my wife came back to her apt about 8:30pm last night, then left again about 9am. As I sat on the computer last night, she calls the kids to tell them about the videos she's rented...............man did I feel like a heal. I'm still not disappointed about the PI and will let him try to find something if there is anything to be found.

 

It's a roller coaster emotionally. As I lay in bed last night going to sleep, I started thinking about my wife. I wasn't upset, just again trying to figure her out. One thing I'll say is that she's unique, I've never met anyone like her. She's a little immature and reacts emotionally to things, but that's actually one of the things I love about her. Also, she's very confident and independent, hard-working, always has been. When I read the earlier post about a woman needing the support of someone before leaving their spouse....an emotional safety net........just doesn't sound like my wife.

 

Her sister is that way and we've seen it first-hand her whole life. She'd be with a guy for many years, then, when it didn't work she would not leave until there was someone else to go to. My wife never seems to have been like that. Yes, I may be surprised. However, I can read her pretty well and in our conversations where her emotions were present and I felt her defenses were down, she was pretty passionate about the space thing and about the hurts I've caused her..................lack of leadership in the home, selfishness, lack of initmacy, lack of support for her ideas and goals. Could be she's just fed up with thinking I'll change and now thinks I can't.

 

Maybe the PI will turn up something, maybe he won't. We'll wait and see. One other thing, this may not matter to some but she read's her Bible faithfully everyday and has a solid realtionship with God. Very hard for me to think she can do this while being involved romantically with someone other than her husband when it goes against everything the Bible teaches. I know, still doesn't mean it can happen but I believe may show that the furthest thing from my wife's mind is another man, that's what she's always said thru this anyway.

 

I do love her which makes it double-tough to do the "space" thing with no assurance from her that there is any future to look forward to. I'm going to do the best I can next week to not contact her. We close on the house we've sold in 13 days so I believe at that point there will be less reason to stay in contact. There are many things we need to discuss at this point about my final move (her stuff is all gone), financial issues that change................I'll probably try to stick to email as lately it's pained me to hear the sound of her voice.

 

One other thing I'll mention. Some may disagree with this, but, I've considered seeing my family Doc about possibly giving me something to take that will help me deal with things better? Maybe this is a cop-out, but, the last thing i want is for this to affect my job and I seem to have so many up/down/right/left days. So far I've done okay..............my schedule is pretty much up to me as long as the job gets done and it's been getting done. Anyway, opinions please?

 

Thanks for the advice and support.

[confuzd]

My man Mike,

 

Long time buddy, as you know my life took a sharp spiral downward and I have been unable to read any other thread on this board but my own. I just got caught up and wanted to offer some advice.

 

I think I have been a few steps ahead of you on everything and it seems like your wifes actions are almost identical to what my wife was feeling and doing.

 

I don't say that to scare you, because I do see differences.

 

The question you have to ask yourself is what if she is cheating, what then.

 

I thought that it would be over, I would tell her to go to hell, and I would move on.

 

I can tell you from experience it is not that easy. It sounds like your feelings for your wife are as strong as mine are, so I fear that you will not be able to let go yourself, and am not necessarily saying that you should.

 

My wife cheated, and deep down I suspected it. But did not want to believe it.

 

I still love her and would be willing to make it work, in order to do that I have to step outside of the box that society has created.

 

I have to view this on a large scale, which I call my life.

 

I still insist on saying that my wife is not the cheating kind, but I guess anyone can be if they are no longer themselves.

 

I still insist on saying my wife has a good heart, it just has been totally distorted by our marriage.

 

I am going to give my wife time, but I am no longer waiting around on her to decide, If I find someone else in the meantime then so be it.

 

I still love my wife deeply but, I know it won't work until she is ready.

 

I recommend going to the divorcebusting.com website and read some of the success stories.

 

Marriages can survive even after an affair. sometimes it takes a year or longer but it can happen.

 

Maybe this is what my wife needed to do to figure out her life, if she doesnt learn her lesson then she is only going to further hurt herself.

 

Most men cant bare the fact of another man enjoying their wife, I can't either. I have to put it all in perspective in order to maintain any kind of sanity.

 

It is just sex, she had it before she met me, and if we do get together and have the happy marriage we have always wanted when I am old and gray this will just be a memory of the trials we had to go through. this is a short period of time for the rest of our lives.

 

Not everyone thinks like me, and I can't beleive I am thinking this way either, I used to have an attitude more similiar to topper.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am hurting like hell, but like I said I am no longer waiting around.

 

You have to be honest with yourself and decide on what you will put up with.

 

I still believe your wife loves you, even if she cheats on you it may not necessarily mean she doesn't love you.

 

She says she needs time, what if that does mean she needs time to see if she will find happiness with another man, will you be willing to let her take that time, and come back to you once she realizes you are the only man for her.

 

Im not saying it is right, and society clearly says it is wrong, but it is your choice, your life, and you are the only one that is going to live with the decisions you make.

[madgun68]

Mike,

 

If all of this is having a negative impact on your life (not just work) and you're finding it hard to cope with everything, there's nothing wrong with going to your doctor for help. Let him know how everything has been, and he'll be able to make the call about something that can possibly help.

 

Be sure that if you are given anything, that you read up on it. Sometimes antidepressants can actually make you feel worse for a bit before the really start to do their thing. Make sure you know what to expect.

[Mike1966]

I need to make a statement about my thread.

 

First, thanks for the support I've found here along with the helpful information. It's been very useful.

 

I will say however, to those experiencing separation, as much as there are many similarities in situations no two are exactly alike. I believe at times I have become paranoid about a possible affair for my wife due to the back and forthness of those that have experienced it.

 

I can tell you that the last two nights would have been prime time for my wife to do something and she ends up playing with our dogs, having a pizza by herself and renting a movie she thought we would have enjoyed together.

 

We spoke again by phone today, the more I talk to her, again I'll say the last thing her "space" from me has to do with is someone else. Not emotional, not physical. I'm not saying it couldnt' ever happen in the future but it sure isn't right now.

 

All she feels like I've been trying to do since we separated is trying to win her back. She's probably right. I read advice that says space doesn't mean space, it means you need to be "the guy", then I read to stop contacting her, calling....whatever. I can say for certainty in my wifes case space means letting her have some time alone to relax without talking to me much.

 

Anyway, not pissing on the group here as it's been wonderful. At the same time, realize most everyone here shares experiences based on what has happened to them or what they've seen patterns of. ...........which is good, however, it isn't one size fits all.

 

In my case, I can tell you that my wife is a very unique woman..........more independent, likes doing things alone sometimes just because she wants to. Also, she is not typical and traditional like some women. What I'm saying is that I guess I know deep down she is the last person that does something a certain way because she just "fits the mold"..................they broke the mold when they made her.

 

As confuzed mentioned, what would happen if she did have an affair? I can tell you this, if she wanted to get victory over the reason she did it, still loved me and would seek help i would choose to work on restoring our marriage. I haven't spent the last 15 years of my life devoted to her and our kids to throw it all away on a foolish decision.

 

I'll keep everyone abreast of things and appreciate all the input. I've had more peace right now than I have in a long time. One other positive note today, the guy friend who I once suspected has gone from a remote possibility to a "no way it's not happening". Had another incident with him today, my wife and I talked about it and both believe he has some serious issues. We also agreed that her being friends with him and the whole "apartment incident" was totally in appropriate. A final caveat..........my wife switched emails today and advised her friends family of a new address which she's done a few times in the last month. Well, for the first time, this joker wasn't included on the list of recipients which made me feel pretty dang good.

 

I'll keep you updated. Thanks again.

[Mz. Pixie]

Maybe the PI will turn up something, maybe he won't. We'll wait and see. One other thing, this may not matter to some but she read's her Bible faithfully everyday and has a solid realtionship with God. Very hard for me to think she can do this while being involved romantically with someone other than her husband when it goes against everything the Bible teaches.

 

Yeah, well just to tell you- I went to church faithfully and taught Sunday School classes etc over my 13 year marriage. I knew adultery was wrong- and up until 6 months before it happened I would have sworn I would NEVER have done anything like that. And afterwards, now that I've been out of the affair a long time- I can see how crazy the whole thing was. I've ruined my Christian witness with the people I knew before- but such is the life of an addict. And at the time you're in a affair, you are an addict. You're addicted to the rush you're getting from having all of those needs met.

 

I'm not saying your wife is like me at all though.

 

I have seen, however, perfect marriages in the church be not all that perfect and deacons leave their wives for their wives best friend. I've seen preachers lose their ministry over an affair, not to mention their wives and families. It happens in the church just like in the world, because we're all human and not perfect. People who are in church or religious even can find scripture which they think will justify what they are doing, I've seen it happen.

 

I'm not saying anything's happening and I'm glad the PI didn't find anything yet. Have you checked the cell phone records???

 

I'm seriously pulling for you- and I hope everything I've said turns out to be wrong.

[Mike1966]

Thanks Mz Pixie.

 

I'm sure not saying that my wife couldn't fool me or that it could NEVER happen. You're right though, all people are different and there's no "for sure" anytime. Right now, with our conversations, she's very interested in me understanding her and, weird thing is, though she wants her space, she also wants to talk with me, and has always been honest with me even if it hurt my feelings. The things she's been doing are for herself because she seems to want a little freedom from stress...............in her words, the last thing she would want is to even think about is another relationship. Plus, there are issues here I won't discuss where I know she literally couldn't have had sex with someone else in the last few months. Doesn't mean it couldn't be emotional or other things, I know, I just don't buy it for now.

 

PI found nothing over the weekend. She went shopping in a town an hour or so from us, which I know she enjoys. Came home, had some family friends of ours over that evening to show them her decorating which she is really into..........nothing out of the ordinary.

 

I had the opportunity to check her cell phone personally within the last two weeks when she didn't know it. I scrolled through all the calls and knew all of the names. The phone numbers without names, there were only maybe 10 of them over a 1 1/2 month period and they were mostly different. She doesn't text message at all and doesn't want our kids to so that's not a factor.

 

Another thing, the guy friend, when my wife called me over the weekend (I didn't call her and am not going to for awhile), she's starting to think he has some issues she wasn't aware of when we were getting to know him earlier. Has marriage problems for sure, but also kind of a "woe is me" syndrome and a little spineless which my wife totally doesn't respect. Anyway, he's pretty much out of the picture as her friend and I was pleased to hear she was spending time with a couple of girlfriends (who are married) which is a great outlet for her.

 

She did tell me the whole time we've been split up she just thinks I've been trying to win her back and I could tell she doesn't appreciate it. She encouraged me to start doing things for me, working out like I used to love, getting busy with my own things and not worrying about our relationship right now. I did ask her if she really loved me when we first started dating all those years ago. She said definitely and that I was more confident then, did my own thing, more independent.

 

Just seems a little weird since marriage is about a team and not being independent. I was usually the one that wanted more time to himself during our marriage but she wanted me with her most of the time. I eventually adapted to that and maybe became a little co-dependent, I'm not sure.

 

One thing she did mention again is my temper. I haven't thought it was much of a factor as I don't really blow up that often but in reality if I blow up at all I suppose it's a problem. Kind of neat, I was looking through the new Sunday School classes at church yesterday and one was on Anger Management and control.................God serves it up to you just when you need it! LOL! Right now, if i was to summarize the things I need to get victory over for myself and for my marriage relationship they would be:

 

- Selfishness - putting God, my wife and my kids ahead of me daily

- Leadership - making good family decisions no matter what

- Finances - being sure to spend money wisely and counsel my wife to do the same....follow through

- Anger/Temper - nothing wrong with Anger, but I shouldn't let anger drive me to go nuts and lose my cool

- Intimacy - selflessly see that the needs of my wife are met whether or not its what I want

- Listening - become a better listener and don't try to fix everything

- Support - be a better supporter of my wifes ideas/dreams........allow her the opportunity to succeed or fail

 

Well, for now I can tell you this, the last thing I'm going to worry about EVER AGAIN, hopefully, is an affair. I can't control it even if it is happening and it will drive me emotionally insane if I keep thinking about it. For my wife, I can tell that SPACE to her means exactly that, SPACE, and she doesn't want me bothering her. She knows that I love her and if she wants to talk to me she won't hesitate calling.

 

I can tell she does still enjoy talking with me but she just doesn't want to talk about "us" right now. So, I'll play along for awhile. I do email her about bills, kids, my move into the house...........just stuff we have to coordinate on to live and manage two households but that will be it for awhile. In our case, I think me not contacting her is what she needs. Even while she says she doesn't love me she has called off and on this whole time to talk about things she really wouldn't need to talk to me about, make sense??

 

When I move into my new place in a couple of weeks I'm going to further the space effort every other week when I don't have my kids by hitting the gym, getting back into shooting trap and skeet which I love and trying to get out in the evening some with some friends of mine...........they're single and I'll have to be sure I don't do something stupid but I don't drink much so at least I'll have a clear head.

 

Anyway, thanks for the continued support here.

[Mz. Pixie]

I can tell she does still enjoy talking with me but she just doesn't want to talk about "us" right now. So, I'll play along for awhile. I do email her about bills, kids, my move into the house...........just stuff we have to coordinate on to live and manage two households but that will be it for awhile. In our case, I think me not contacting her is what she needs. Even while she says she doesn't love me she has called off and on this whole time to talk about things she really wouldn't need to talk to me about, make sense??

 

 

Yes, this make sense and I'll tell you why?? Because she's getting part of her needs met from you. My exhusband was my best friend, and if he would have agreed to be "friends" with me, that's what we would have been. That didn't mean that I wanted to stay married to him though. It's just that he met some of my needs, and the OM met the other ones.

 

Pretty selfish huh?

 

At this point, I certainly hope you're right about everything that's going on, and that there is no OM.

 

I just felt bad for you because you sound like a nice guy- and you're supporting her financially- and I didn't want to see you getting played.

 

I'm going to ask Lady Jane and Gunny to weigh in on this thread, because they are pretty good too.

[Ladyjane14]

Hey Pix!

 

I've been crazy busy the past few days, so let me read up here on Mike's thread... and I'll get back later tonight or early in the morning.

:bunny:

 

 

p.s.

...In our case, I think me not contacting her is what she needs.

 

I don't want to make comment before I know what's going on... but if you're thinking about limiting contact, you'll find a good article by punching into your browser, "The Healing Library No Contact with your Wayward Spouse".

 

This would describe "contact on YOUR terms" rather than a more stringent form of NC.

[Gunny376]

First off you come across to be a dedicated husband and father who's hard working and who has his priorties lined up in a row pretty well.

 

In your thread, some common issues come up, but nothing too serious, what with some counseling, reading, learning, and growing that can't be overcome. Wheather its too late for your marriage? I don't know, but they're all things that become on a personal level.

 

From what you've posted ~ its kind of hard to call the ball on this one ~ that and we're only getting yourside of the story. But there are a couple of different combinations of things that could be going on in with your marriage.

 

The biggest is that you've ,got yourself a walk-a-wife who's living a big time fantasy as to how things are going to be once you've separated/divorce. Basically she wants to be rid of you as a husband, and wants you to continue to foot the bill and provide for her in the lifestyle for which she's become accustomed to ~ just without you in the picture 24/7 ~ but there coming running when she needs you, and out of the way when she doesn't.

 

In short she's playing you for a fool! Not only that? She's using and abusing you!

 

This woman has fior whatever reason fallen out of love with you, and she's just not feeling it for you anymore. And, unless you take certain steps, you've got zero chances of getting her back.

 

She may not be having an affair, she may not want one. But your going to wake up one day like ilmw over on the divorce/sepeartion thread (you need to read his thread BTW) and find out that there's another man in the picture ~ if she's not already got her eye on one or two on the horizon.

 

This little gal is setting up ~ and she's playing her moves six or seven moves ahead of yours. She's got you right where she wants you ~ and if you think things are bad now? Keep going down the path your going. She'll be sitting pretty, and you'll be living in a little two bedroom house with exclusive rights to pay for all that.

 

She knows there's no freaking way she can continue the lifestyle of the last 15 years working part time. Not even if she works three part time jobs, not even she worked two full time jobs.

 

She's going to lawyer up and go for every dime she can squeeze out of you! That's not me talking ~ that's her talking! She's already told you! You're just not listening!

 

Go for joint custody ~ and she gets nothing! No alimony. no child support ~ zilch ~ nothing. Anything the children want ~ need, you can pony up for it!

 

Of course you should take on as many of the bills as you can, get the paid off, (except for those items which she has and there's still an outstanding balance on ~ i.e. her car, etc)

 

She can't keep the lights on, pay the rent? Tough! That thar's what you call Reality and Life! Deal with it.

 

She had a nice house!

 

She had a car!

 

She had everything that she wanted and needed, and you working like a Hebrew slave to pay for it! And she expects you to contine doing so! Ain't no freaking way!

 

And, she just up and walks away?

 

Mike ~ she's told you she wants out of the marriage. And, she's playing you dangling a carrots on a string, to keep you engaged just enough to stay in the game where she can get what she wants and needs out of you when it comes time and suits her fancy.

 

I hate to be one to break the news to you? But your wife isn't going ~ she's gone! Its over, and the sooner you get that in your head the better.

 

I'd be telling this little gal!

 

"You want out!" You've got it! End of disccussion! Don't call me about YOUR PROBLEMS!!!! As far as the divorce, the finances ~ here's my attorny's phone number ~ Have a nice life!

 

The only thing that's going to work here, is if you cut her off mentally, emotionally, financially, and let Mr. Reality grab a hold of her, and wear that azz out a little bit. When the "fog" lifts and she has one of those "Oh My God ~ what have I done?!!!" moments ~ then and only then she might wake up! If she doesn't? In the long run ~ you'll be better off without her!

 

First.........here is the divorce scenario we will present to OUR attorney sometime this week....we have two kids, ages 13 & 14

• she gets 50% of my net pay for 2 years starting next month
  
• she gets 28% of my net pay for years 3&4 (until my oldest daughter turns 18
  
• she gets 14% of my net pay for year 5
  
• if my wife has a live-in or marries during the first 2 years, it reduces to child support only
  
• if my wife wants to work during the first two years she can keep her paycheck..........I really don't care
  
• I get the kids one week, she gets them the next......joint custody
  
• Thus ends my financial support

 

Wrong!!!! This is the beginning of your worse nightmare! The courts typically look at it as though if it ain't broke ~ why fix it? Let the lawyers get involved and you could be on the hook for years, while she' living the life of Rilely!

 

Why would want to handicap your personal happiness with someone else? Who died and made her the princess?

 

The princess is putting it all on you! She's got it in your brain housing group ~ that its all you and none of her. She's not happy, and its all your fault that she's not happy because you're ____________ and you're not__________________. Let me freaking guess ~ you've got to change ~ right? But she can't tell you how and in what ways? Everything you do is wrong ~ everything you don't do is wrong? Even the way you touch her on her shoudler and try to embrace her! Everything you say is wrong ~ everything you don't say is wrong.

 

Its OK for her to lie, have a man over at her place ~ would it be alright for you to have had a woman alone at your house after you lied to her about your plans? Granted you might not have been the perfect housing ~ but it sounds like you gave it your best effort!

 

You did your best with what you had at the time, with what you had to work with. You did the best you could at the time ~ and you were trying to learn how to do better!

 

Where did you get it in your head that this is the best that you deserve in life? When did you get it in your head that its suppose to be Mike giving, giving, and giving and Mike's wife taking, taking, and taking!

 

Go up to the divorce/thread! Read the thread by

 

ilmw

Crying Canut

Deperate Dad

Wolfe

 

Its never enough for some women ~ you could cry them a river or tears, hang on a lover's cross, cry tears of blood ~ and it will never be enough ~ and it will always be your fault.

 

And yea Mike every divorce is different, yet their all the same!

[Ladyjane14]

At the age of 38, I might have divorced my husband too. I had a whole laundry list of reasons why, just like your wife does. I felt that he was too angry, too negative, and only interested in SEX. Sound familiar???

 

The ONLY reason that I didn't divorce him at that time is because I don't possess the same sense of fantasy that your wife apparently does. I knew fully well that the guy I'd be dealing with in divorce court would make Gunny's post #97 look like 'a day at the beach'.

 

My husband would NOT have given me half his salary or let me sell off the family furniture. He would NOT have been interested in being demoted to the status of 'benign little friend'. He would NOT have lived his life on tenterhooks waiting for me to pull my head out of my hindquarters.

 

He would have shown me THE REALITY of my decision. He'd have retained a good attorney. He'd have given me the minimum monies required by the court. And he'd have prevented me from leaving the area with the kids. What's more... he'd have replaced my ass within two months time, I guarantee you.

 

Now, that's not because he's some horrible a*hole and it's not because he's some knuckle-dragging "alpha-male". He's really quite a sweetie, but then again... I'm partial.

 

It's because we don't, and never have, had a history of playing games with one another. Fact is, in a divorce scenario, if he initiated it... I'd have made all that stuff I just now told you about him look absolutely TAME. I'd have become the "alpha-bitch" he only heretofore has suspected me of being.

 

We love each other. And passionately too. Passionately enough to fight about it... and sometimes to fight FOR it.

 

Your wife has done NOTHING to promote reconciliation. She's given you occasional hopeful, yet noncommittal words, but no actions. In fact, when you look singularly at her actions, they are self-promoting, based in fantasy, and consistently divisive.

Words + Actions = The Truth

 

Words - Actions = Bullsh*t

 

 

 

Now, you are OBVIOUSLY feeling pretty bad about the mistakes you made during the marriage. It wouldn't take you long reading threads in the Separation/Divorce forum from guys just like you... before you realized how common that reaction is in men. They feel GUILTY for their mistakes, and most commonly their mistakes are the same as yours... not thinking twice before they let their mouths get ahead of them in anger, taking their wives for granted in terms of household chores, mismatched libidos, etc. etc.

 

Hindsight's 20/20 though, man. You've read some books, sought out better information, and now you see your errors in a clearer way than you did before and you've pulled on your hair shirt. And that's not a bad thing in some ways. Should you reach the reconciliation phase in your marriage, it'll serve you well. And should you move on to another relationship with someone else, it will serve you well there too.

 

But... there are TWO people in this now defunct marriage. And I want to tell you from the woman's perspective, post-recovery... that you aren't the only one at fault in this.

 

You are a MAN. That's your perspective. You're always going to be a man, and you'll NEVER feel what it is to be a woman. Your brain function is slightly different, the "hard-wiring" of you brain, if you will. You see things through a male filter or lens.

 

Of course, the same thing is true of your wife. She perceives her reality through the female lens.

 

AND I SAY UNTO YOU... she has applied "the female lens" to YOU. Your motives, your words, your actions... all perceived as if they had come from another female. She hasn't the nuance of understanding to recognize her wrong in that. But really... it's like getting a dog and treating him like a cat. It ain't gonna work 'cause NOBODY's going to be happy with the outcome.

 

Now, you haven't done THAT to her. You've allowed her to be a woman. You've spoken of her as "unique" and appreciated her "individuality". You've loved her for her foolishness, and loved her for her "strength". Very nice, btw.

But here she is, in her blindness, expecting you to "be a woman". That's NOT who you are.

 

Now, I'm NOT saying that your mistakes weren't important, but I do think you need to put them into context. It's not at all unusual for guys who are holding down a job, rushing on the weekends to get the household chores done, raising kids, and living an otherwise HECTIC life, to get a little lean in the romance department. It doesn't make them Neanderthals if they wanted a little sex with their wife and didn't do 'Champagne and Roses' beforehand. Your wife could have TOLD you what she wanted sexually. Honestly, it doesn't sound to me like you're the kind of guy who wouldn't have tried to accommodate her.

 

And if her desire for separation was genuinely a matter of "getting your attention" in terms of anger or neglect or finance issues on your part... well, she's got it NOW doesn't she???

But what is she doing with it?

 

A few years ago, my husband and I had a crisis in our marriage. We'd been married well over 20 years by then. We'd been at odds for roughly ten of those years over issues similar to yours. And during this crisis, I demanded a divorce. I was DONE. He'd been involved in some bad behavior and it was the very last straw for me.

 

On the day I confronted him... I suggested that we get some "space" from one another. I deliberately allowed him to believe that if he were to consent to giving me this "space" we might reassess the situation later. BUT.... in all honesty, in all candor... that was a feint. I'd have said ANYTHING to get him to leave. I'd have strung him along for as long as possible. And I'd have done it because I was just tired of fighting and I wanted him as CALM AND COLLECTED as possible while I extricated myself from the marriage.

 

That might sound cold-blooded to you. But that's not what you're thinking while you're doing it. You're only thinking about the EASIEST route to the exit.

The relationship is adversarial at that point. Your former spouse is your opponent, blocking your path out of the marriage.

 

Honestly... I don't know WHY you guys keep falling for the "I need space" gambit. To my mind, it's just code for "I don't want you going ballistic while I dump you". Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

 

Your wife seems a bit of a "Princess" to me. You haven't mentioned that she's ever had lean times, ever gone without, ever stood between the 'wolf at the door' and her 'poor huddled family'. Her expectations are unrealistic. Men don't support your ass in perpetuity AFTER you've dumped them.

It just doesn't happen.

 

She seems to hit you with a brand new scheme on a weekly basis. She's going to "move to the city" or "go to college". She might let you "buy her a little house" or "get released early from her apartment lease".

SHE'S CLUELESS as to the REALITY of a life without YOU in it, paying her bills and holding her hand. But... that's what divorce IS. (!!!!)

 

I have to say, same as MzPixie... I'm not convinced that there wasn't something going on that was inappropriate and which became the impetus for her decision to separate. I find it weird that she went to all the trouble to change her email addy rather than just tell the guy to buzz off or ignore him or whatever. It's fishy.

 

But be that as it may, it's where you are TODAY that's important. And to be frank, I think you're being a bit of a pushover in all this. Heck, I wouldn't mind divorcing you myself! .... particularly if you'll find me "unique and special" all the while giving me half your paycheck and you live with your folks.

 

I'm kidding, of course.

But if I were you, I'd go ahead and meet with an attorney to find out what is monetarily expected of me. I'd give her a peek through "the window of divorce" and let her see what it would REALLY be like. I'd pare down the financial support. I'd pare down the contact, similar to the article I mentioned earlier. I'd let HER worry about losing ME for a change.

 

BECAUSE.... what you don't seem to realize is that THAT is exactly what will eventually happen.

"The window" closes without warning. One day, you're ALL ABOUT saving your marriage. The next, you could care less. People just 'run out of gas'. They get exhausted from waiting, exhausted from hoping. And one day... you just don't care any more.

 

If you give her the opportunity to REALLY see what divorce would be like, sometimes you can give a wayward time to reassess. But, it's not a fair test if you're mollycoddling her, is it?

 

You've said repeatedly that you feel the strategy of showing her "unconditional love" is the way to go. But... I just don't believe that humans are capable of it. Not in the long term anyway.

Be it your wife or your child, if they were to say... rap you good and hard in the nuts with a Louisville Slugger every time they saw you... hey, I think "the love" might dry up a bit, don't you? Fact is, people can hurt you bad enough that you STOP loving them. And if you continue to allow your wife to hurt you for a prolonged period of time, you're going to stop loving HER.

 

You protect your supply of love when you STOP allowing her to take withdrawals without making deposits. It's just like a bank. When you're in "The Red" far enough... you're done.

 

Now, I'm not saying you have to be an a*hole. But what I am saying is that you have to be mindful that your "love supply" does in fact have limits. You can't just let her walk all over you and never see a bill from that. And it'll be you, yourself, who presents it, surprisingly enough. Because you'll be tired and you'll be DONE.

 

Let her see what DIVORCE really looks like before you "run out of gas". Stick pins in her fantasies. Don't be a jerk about it, just step back gently. Don't strip her down to the bare bones financially, but don't be EASY MEAT either. It's a tightrope walk over hot coals, and you're NEVER 100% certain of your course. But in the end, all you can be is the man you are. And if that's not good enough for her, than in the end... she's not good enough for YOU.

[Gunny376]

As usual LJ, great post!

 

I waited Mike, until LJ posted because I've got some more news you can use.

 

Per LJ's latest post, all of your so-called "short-comings" you can adpat and over-come. You're being way too hard on yourself! Most of where you find yourself at when it comes to marriage and personal finance, is because you've never had it presented to you. You've had minimum exposure ~ and probally what you do know and understand you've got from your church and from family, or like most of us? A little bit here and a little bit there.

 

First off ~ FINANCES

 

I'm a finance major, (although you couldn't tell it by my latest post ~ I'm a sorry speller, my computer crashed and I lost my word processor. There's supposely a spell checker available here at LS ~ but I've not learned how to use it)

 

Anyway, I studied finance in college. But it was corporate finance. Its ironic to me that you go through 12 years of school, four years of college and they don't teach you a damn thing about personal finance. They don't even offer a course in it.

 

Some of the sites that I'm about to list ~ I can't link you to becuase its LS's policy that members can't link other people to paid sites. Not to fret.

 

Google Mary Hunt and "Debt Free Living" its a paid site, and for the un-heard sum of two whole dollars a month you get full access to it. Along with that you'll get access to not only a monthly e-mail newsletter, but all the newsletters from back to about 2000. You'll also get access to the fourmns, calculators, and a whole bunch of other stuff! Well worth every penny ~ and you more than get your money's worth!

 

A little background on Mary. She's a syndicated columnist, author of many, many books (you'll also get access to those and other authors at the site I mentioned. And she pens a monthly newsletter.

 

The way that she got started in all of this, was as an ordinary housewife, and the wife of a banker no less, she found herself living in CA, with a mortgage, two car-(f)leases, and about $100,000 in credit card debt. She paid every bit of it off! One of the ways she did it was to start the newsletter as a way of generating just one more cent of income to put toward debt.

 

The site with its newsletters ((current and back issues) along with the fourmns can tell you how to eradicate debt, minimize living expenses, and sqeeze a penny until old Abe screems for mercy!

 

I believe its right up your alley ~ because its very much Christian base. In a nut shell, ~ her program is save 10%, tithe 10% (even if you don't belong to a church ~ give to a charity) and put the rest toward debt.

 

Another source is ~ Dave Ramsey and his "Complete Money Makeover" He's got a book out, (maybe more than one) a radio talk show, and a website. I don't believe it costs anything to access his website.

 

Another must read is "Deal With Your Debt" by Liz Pulliam Weston

 

Romance:

 

Couple of resources here for you. One I'm particuarly found of is Ellen Kreidman's "Light Her Fire" books and program. She's got a website. You'll have to Google it ~ because she sells books and CD off of it. The CD's go for about $100. But you can get the book, "Light Her Fire" in both hardback and paperback. She's also authored "How Can We Light A Fire When The Kids Are Driving Us Crazy"

 

"Romance 101" and "1001 Ways To Be Romantic" and "1001 More Ways To Be Romantic"

 

Sex

 

I've read all kinds of books about sex and how to satisfy a woman. Most of them aren't worth picking up. But the simplest, easiest read I've ever came across was Naura Hayden's "How To Satisfy A Woman Every time............. and have her beg for more! She's a little flakey, but since I've read her book? I've indeed had very happy and satisfied women that I've been with. About half the book isn't worth reading, but there's a technique/way of making "love" :love: :love:

 

Specifically what the book is about? It describes sex from the woman's point of view. On the cover it says, "It Really Works ~ The First and Only Book That Tells You Exactly How!" (If your a man ~ you want and need to read this book. If your a woman ~ you want and need to buy it for your man! Thing is? Its not that big of a book, most could read it in less than an hour ~ some a half hour!) I applied what I learned from it, and each and everyone of my GF since my divorce have said (three) "Sex was never one of our problems.

 

With that said, building on what LJ said, I've yet to see any man go through what you're going through and successfully reconcile with his GF or wife without "manning up"!

 

To borrow from Jmargel you need to tell her, that its not you that's got to worry about life after divorce. You need to demonstrate to her ~ that's she's got a lot to lose here, and you've got a lot to gain.

 

What one woman will abuse? Another can certainly use! She's talking all this "smack" about your not this and your not that, I'm willing to bet that there's more than just one or two single and available women around hoping and wishing you do get divorced.

 

One of the surprises of my life was when I retired from the Marine Corps and came back home ~ how many women I went to HS with, told me that they were interested in me in HS. I dated, had GF's etc, but they were from other HS and other towns. I never dated anyone from my HS or hometown!

 

There's no shortage of men, but there is a shortage of hardworking, honest, law-abiding, moral, ethical, God-fearing, Go to church, "Stand By Your Woman" sober, non-cheating, non-porn watching type men that have a "Code" they live by, that put their woman and children before their wants and needs! And one that makes six figure income (2% of the population BTW)

 

If the "Princess" decdies to divorce you? You won't be on the market very long! I can promise you that!

[Gunny376]

I'm going to ask Lady Jane and Gunny to weigh in on this thread, because they are pretty good too.

 

:lmao: I'm thinking Mike's going to wake up and read his thread and think: "Well I wished you hadn't a done that!