recently separated from wife.... ??

[PWSX3]

I went threw a separation not to long ago & yes it is hard. It sounds like you did kind of the same thing I did, you are confused, hurt, don't know what to do so you start grabbing at anything you can.

 

I looked at it as if I was falling threw a tree & was trying to grab onto any branch that came by. I would ask people for help, I was lucky I found LS, I wanted answers right now & being a man I wanted to "FIX" the problem.

 

Well it takes more time then that & this my friend is a problem that us as guys can't just fix like you would your car.

 

Just like everyone has told you the best thing is to give her the space she has asked for, the more you push the farther they run. (Been there, done that)

 

It sounds to me like you are there anytime she needs you, you are ready to help, want to help just I did, but it might not hurt to back off just a little. When she calls don't answer the phone let her leave a message.....

 

The only person you have control over is yourself & so look at what you can do. I have read more books in the last 8 months then I have since high school (and that was a LONG time ago) & I don't have all the answers but I'm learning more about myself & what I need to do.

 

My wife said I was controlling, but in my mind I was helping her because I just didn't see her getting things done like "I" thought they should be done. Just like your wife, she wants to be in charge of the apartment/house she wants so let her do it, let her do things for herself. I am learning that they do have some good ideas if us as guys will just listen. Or as least for me, I have trouble just listening but I'm getting better.

 

Do you have some hobbies that maybe you haven't been able to do for a while? For me joining a gym was one of the best things I could do. I always wondered why people get in shape, start looking better after a divorce or separation & now I know, they are doing it for themselves not the other person.

That will help take your mind off what is going on & be beneficial at the same time.

 

Now I go hiking, commute to work on my bicycle, more active & lost weight.

By what I read you are a religious person & so is your wife so that will help bring you both back together if it is meant to be, but for now she needs time to think & you need time to learn.

 

There are many good books out there & like Gunny has told me many times; you can never learn to much.......

 

Good luck & remember this won't get better in a month, it could take three months, it could take 6 months, it could take a year but use the time to learn....

[Mike1966]

pwsx3,

 

Thanks for your input. Your words ring true..............it's tough to think this could take up to a year but if we are better for it and I can change for the positive during that time it's worth it.

 

I have started walking in the morning quite a bit and am going to hit the gym starting next week. I've always enjoyed lifting weights and have never really given it up for any length of time since college ('88 grad)..........makes me feel so much better about myself.

 

The "listening" part of this has been great for me because, yes, I am like most other men and try to find a solution to the problem rather than just understand. The other issue I struggle with this is letter go of many of the decisions I would make for "us" financially though I really hope to get to talk with my wife this week about things again because I really want to give her the opportunity to manage the household and payoff debt at a schedule of her choosing............I really think she needs this if not to prove to me that she can do it for her own sense of self-worth.

 

Yes, I probably need to try and not be so available anytime she calls but i struggle with that because I don't want to be perceived as being prideful and definitely don't want to play any games..............I understand the point though and may give that a try. It does seem we can avoid talking each day, for now probably more due to selling a house, contemplating the purchase of another.........arranging things for our kids......anyway, once she gets moved I think it will be easier to go a few days with no contact.

 

Thanks for your reply and thoughts,

[bish]

Mike1966....rejoice my friend. A whole new world will be opening up to you! You are probably, guessing by your handle, 2 years older than me.

I am getting divorced and already seeing the benefits of losing a tramp for a wife(I know that isn't your situation).

 

I am looking forward to being single again...and am pretty sure I want to stay single...maybe you won't.

 

But my friend, get out there....get a healthclub membership...go out with your guy friends on the weekend. Trust me, there are women out there that are our age that are looking for a good man. I am finding that out already. Got a couple here in the hometown that are eagerly awaiting my divorce.

[Mike1966]

Hey bish,

 

Sorry that your situation is ending in divorce but, even though I don't want a divorce, I understand that here are situations where it is probably for the best.......maybe for both parties.

 

I have to admit my mind has wondered a few times about whether or not at 40yrs old I'm up to the dating game again?? Most of my "guy friends" are married but there are a couple I have gotten together with to have a good time.

 

I feel like I'm becoming more independent through this separation with my wife though I do want to reconcile with her. To some extent, I believe there is the tendency in many marriages for one or both parties to end up "co-dependent". In the end, I believe you need to be a team and enjoy spending time together but I also think it's healthy to do your own thing.

 

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but if my marriage ever fails, I'm not sure I want the single life..............I definitely don't feel that way now. I've always enjoyed the company of a woman.

 

You seem to be at peace with your situation. Did you have any kids and if so how is that working? How long were you married? I suppose it doesn't matter but I'm just curious??

 

This whole process of separationi is just plain perplexing !! Right now, I feel pretty good about having the knowledge to work on the changes I need to make in my own life, let alone what my wife and I will need to work on together if we reconcile.

 

I'm still a little disheartened at how my wife looks at our financial situation as I mentioned earlier. Though I still have hope for us and believe deep down she still loves me and wants me to change for "us", she keeps tending to look at things as "yours" and "mine" when paying off the debt we've incurred rather than just "ours"................assigning specific dollar amounts for each of us to be responsible for. Maybe this is just one of those things she is doing to make her feel better about herself and what she can accomplish, giving herself a goal to achieve??

 

Anyway, sorry for the long reply, as I type and ponder my relationship with my wife, not knowing the future, it tends to make you wonder what you can do and where things are at.................when, in reality, all you can do is be patient and provide unconditional love and support for your spouse.

 

Thanks,

[Mike1966]

Well,

 

My wife asked me to come by after church this morning. She talked to the kids about getting an apartment rather than a house because she didn't know where she and I would be with our relationship at that time.

 

Then, as I helped her move things a little while we were alone, I asked her what miracle it would take for us to reconcile. She said for me to change, which I think I have started to in many ways. She said she doesn't see it, especially since the incident 2 days ago when we agrued over who owes what.

 

Then she said she wanted to see an attorney next week and file for divorce. She wants to be fair with the money, kids and possessions..................she just said I make her physically sick right now and she feels this is the only thing that will alleviate the stress.

 

I didn't get upset and told her I didn't fear divorce, at the same time I told her that wasn't where I was at and that I needed to pray about it as I don't believe God EVER wants divorce, even in cases of infidelity he designed marriage for life but it requires people to have the ability to forgive.

 

Any advice is appreciated. She did mention "who knows", maybe 6 months down the road we can date or something?? I just wish she would give me the time to show her change is possible. At the same time, I'm starting to wonder whether or not she has any idea whatsoever that she has some things she needs to take ownership of in our relationship.

 

Anyway, I didn't get mad at her and I'm not....................I want to do the best I can for her and the kids so I guess maybe I just need to go along with this and ride it out as there's really nothing I can do to stop it.

 

HELP!!!!

[lysne]

Let her file. All you can do is say "W, I can't stop you, but know that I don't want to divorce you. I love you for x, x, and x reasons. I know I have hurt and disappointed you, but I also know I can be a good man, the man that you always wanted. If you need to file, file. We are connected by x years, x beautiful children, and love that I believe endures despite everything. I will still be here for you, and in time you will see and understand that I mean what I have said."

 

As religious as you and your wife may be, please leave God out of it! The very last thing that your wife wants to hear from you is that you want to stay in the marriage out obligation (even to God). How would you like it if roles were reversed and your wife's primary reason for wanting to prolong a marriage you were desperately unhappy with was because it was what you were "supposed" to do? (She obviously doesn't agree with your assessment of God's wishes anyway.) She wants you to stay in the marriage because you love and provide for her. So tell her that and get on with it.

[lysne]

By the way, what you are going through is actually fairly common. You might like to read this: http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_walkaway_wife.htm

 

I haven't read any of this author's books personally, but from what I understand her philosophy seems to be compatible with my personal experiences. Maybe someone who's actually read her work could comment.

[PWSX3]

Well,

 

My wife asked me to come by after church this morning. She talked to the kids about getting an apartment rather than a house because she didn't know where she and I would be with our relationship at that time.

She is not looking to the future right now, the only thing she wants to do is get away from you. My W was the same way, I tried to talk to her while she was moving out & she just didn't want to hear ANYTHING I had to say even if it made since.

Then, as I helped her move things a little while we were alone, I asked her what miracle it would take for us to reconcile. She said for me to change, which I think I have started to in many ways. She said she doesn't see it, especially since the incident 2 days ago when we argued over who owes what.

Again you could be the best man in the world & she doesn't see ANY of it right now, you could be changing but she doesn't see it. In my situation the W wanted no contact for the first month, she just wanted time to herself, just like your W she didn't want anything to do with me..... Sure she told me she loved me but wasn't "IN LOVE" with me.

Then she said she wanted to see an attorney next week and file for divorce. She wants to be fair with the money, kids and possessions..................she just said I make her physically sick right now and she feels this is the only thing that will alleviate the stress.

I know you don't want to hear this but I feel the only reason she would want a divorce so soon is because there is someone else she might be interested in. If she REALLY wants to work on things then I feel the separation would be the option she would want. My W never did say she wanted a divorce, she always talked separation even though I thought it was over... I keep saying this but I feel it is hard for you & it was for me to hear & that is they just want there space.

Something else you will come across often if you read some of the different posts here is when the spouse that wants or is leaving has been thinking about this for months so you are like 3-6 months behind her. In her mind she has done everything she feels she can do & she is tired & doesn't feel like there is anything more she can do. The thing she forgot to do is let you know what was bothering her & so no you are catching up.

I didn't get upset and told her I didn't fear divorce, at the same time I told her that wasn't where I was at and that I needed to pray about it as I don't believe God EVER wants divorce, even in cases of infidelity he designed marriage for life but it requires people to have the ability to forgive.

 

Any advice is appreciated. She did mention "who knows", maybe 6 months down the road we can date or something?? I just wish she would give me the time to show her change is possible. At the same time, I'm starting to wonder whether or not she has any idea whatsoever that she has some things she needs to take ownership of in our relationship.

My W had in her mind 6 months & I'm not sure how she came up with that, but for the first month & a half we didn't talk at all..... Like people told me; action speaks louder then words. Once she get her ducks in a row & you start not seeing each other ALL the time then she will start thinking. You start working on bettering yourself & she will notice. For me it was losing 55 pounds, that is kind of hard to hide......:laugh: Then one day she said; you are really trying to change & I'm glad to see it. WHAT? I hadn't seen her much for two months but she noticed...

Anyway, I didn't get mad at her and I'm not....................I want to do the best I can for her and the kids so I guess maybe I just need to go along with this and ride it out as there's really nothing I can do to stop it.

There is things you can do, just read ilmw, Sumdude, & the other guys posts here that have been looking at what they can do for themselves.

 

Your W just needs her space, do things at her speed & just have some time to herself. Your W wants to feel in charge with her life & maybe part of it has to be with her being a stay at home mom. I have known friends that when they get home the W wants to go out, do things & they just want to stay home after a hard days work.

[Mike1966]

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Yes..........I suppose it may be another man but at this point I highly doubt it. I've probably messed up too many times in the short run and had too much contact..............who knows??

 

We just got off the phone and I was very honest about some things I'd been keeping inside this whole time but at the same time told her I love her and would be ready to start moving forward whenever she wants to. She couldn't believe I could feel that way yet display some of the anger I had about how this was "all my fault" and the fact that all I've done since our separation is love and support her with no expectation of anything in return. She's very upset with me for talking with some of my close friends and telling them that I initially wondered if she was having an affair................I told her that I'm sorry i suspected but at the same time to be realistic and that it happens. She said she doesn't think I love her, just as an object, not sex, just as one of my possessions..........which I don't understand.

 

We talked about who would take what debts and how much $$ I would pay her and for what period of time. I'm now thinking of buying a small house for my kids and I since she has opted for an apartment.............I'd like them to at least have the swing set I built for them and the trampoline we have as well as keep one or two of our pets.

 

I believe I will take lysne's advice, probably via email as it's tough to talk to each other right now and tell her that I do love her and state the reasons why I believe we could work through this...............probably will fall on deaf ears but oh well.

[PWSX3]

I believe I will take lysne's advice, probably via email as it's tough to talk to each other right now and tell her that I do love her and state the reasons why I believe we could work through this...............probably will fall on deaf ears but oh well.

Yep sure will.....Like I said; she isn't listening to anything you are saying right now. Only thing she hears is bla,bla,bla,bla,bla!!!!!!or that voice on Charlie Brown......

 

Just give her the space, don't call or talk to her unless you have to......

She knows you love her or you wouldn't be hanging around, you would have told her to take a hike by now.

[Mike1966]

I understand your point.............I already sent the email but am sure it likely fell on deaf ears.

 

Unfortunately, since we're selling the house, splitting up debt....etc., we're going to have to talk but rest assured it will be as little as possible. It sounds like she is in no hurry to go to an attorney with our plans but who knows.....................what she wants changes with the wind right now.

 

I've decided I'm going to get my own house (small and inexpensive), just to give my kids a stable residence and have a place for our pets rather than give them up. I still love my wife and am going to continue to try and unconditionally love and support her, from a distance, through this time. If she doesn't end up wanting to give it a try later, of finds another guy at least I'll have a place of my own and can begin the process of moving on for good.

 

I still want us to reconcile no matter what and am committed to it. Continued help and support here is appreciated.

[confuzd]

By the way, what you are going through is actually fairly common. You might like to read this: http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_walkaway_wife.htm

 

I haven't read any of this author's books personally, but from what I understand her philosophy seems to be compatible with my personal experiences. Maybe someone who's actually read her work could comment.

 

I have read the book and I swear to god I thought that you may have helped co-author it Lysne. I have read divorce busting, and divorce rescue. Divorce Rescue is the book you need to get your hands on Mike but let me offer some advice from the book. Oh yeah and by the way, I have thoroughly navigated through all the pages on the divorce busting website, and your situation as well as mine are very common, even if your wife wants a divorce and gets a divorce does not mean it is over for you, you will know when it's over and by what she is saying it doesn't seem like it is.

 

She is sick of you right now, If you follow the steps I'm about to lay out that I got from Divorce Rescue, you will give her the space and time she needs to get over her sickness and anger and see things a little more clearly, she is just not doing that right now. A good rule of thumb that I got from the book, is "Don't believe anything that she says right now, and only half of what she does".

 

There are several areas of attack depending on what level of the game you are in, since your wife has left and is now filing for divorce you are definitely in the LAST RESORT phase. This is how it works

 

 

Step 1. STOP THE CHASE

one of the things that happens when you chase your spouse is that you take the focus off your failing marriage and crumbling family and put the spotlight right on you. Your wife gets so annoyed, that getting rid of you is all she can think about. Your persistance is robbing your spouse of the opportunity to refect on what is really happening in your lives right now. Because anger is the only emotion your spouse is feeling, it prevents her from feeling, sadness, grief, guilt, and remorse. She is so busy glaring at you she has no time to look in the mirror. Quit supplying her with a reason to leave.

 

Step 2. GET A LIFE

When people get desperate we get clingy and depressed, you have read my thread so you know I can totally emphasize with you here. Desperation is not attractive, it is actuall unattractive, and when you are competing against your wifes fantasy of an ideal life without problems, it is imperative you get yourself together quick. Immediately begin to do things that are uncharactheristic of the way you have been acting lately, you need to be upbeat in your wifes presence, you need to be pleased with your own life. When you talk on the phone sound content. Don't sit around waiting for her to call. Go do things, be with friends, start a hobby, start being less predictable.

 

If you have always tried to engage your wife in conversation when she comes over, be short on words. If your wife goes out simply wish her a good time, Act as if you are moving on with or without your spouse, this doesn't mean be cold or even mean, just pull back and see if your spouse notices, and realize what she will be missing.

 

STEP3. WAIT AND WATCH.

one of three things will happen when you use the Last resort technique. The first is nothing, some marriages are past the point of no return I don't beleive that to be your case though. The second is she will become curious, she might begin to show more interest in you, she may even suggest spending some time together, she may start asking alot of questions about your sudden changes, If any of these things happen here is what you do.

-be loving in return, but not overly excited

-Accept some invitations but not all

-do not ask any questions about your future together

-Be vague when asked about your changes, just say you are thinking things through

-continue to be upbeat

-do not say "I love you"

-resist getting into conversations about your marriage

-beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other after an activity. you set the tone for going your separate ways.

 

just be responsive, but not too responsive, If you go overboard your wife will get cold feet (this is a problem of mine)

you need to stay interested but cool, once you feel sure the time is right then you can become more obvious about your intentions of staying together, if she is receptive then move slow and begin to tackle issues that drove you too apart.

 

good luck mike.

[Mike1966]

confuzed,

 

Thanks, my friend, I appreciate your insight. I believe it is likely over........for now. Even when we talked about final separation on the phone tonight, a longer term arrangement for child support and any maintenance I pay while she gets a job...............I still told her I'm committed to things even if she isn't.

 

The hard part right now is selling the house, me buying one of my own, separating pictures, furniture........15 years of memories.........is likely going to take us spending a little time together. I suppose I'll act as indifferent as I can while not letting her screw me in the meantime. So far, everything has gone her way, period! I still love her and am glad I have supported her through this but at the same time she realizes none of it............not even when I offered to pay for a plane ticket to her sister's last week to see her sister who is having marriage problems. NOTHING I have done for her, my listening, understanding..........none of it seems to matter for now even though I have taken 100% of the blame for all of our problems when in reality there is more than enough blame to go around.

 

I have no problem stopping the chase and that is exactly what I'll do nor will I have trouble getting a single sort of life back as I kind of have been working on these past few weeks anyway. All of the advice does make sense, and, deep down I feel she still loves me..........................however she does not see ANY of my good points right now or any of the sacrifices I've made for her our whole married life. I love her but this is very frustrating..............I'm not giving up by any stretch of the imagination but at the same time it's simply pissing me off, bigtime. Part of me wants to tell this "little girl" to grow up and realize how good she's had it for 15 years being supported by a guy who I feel like tried in vain to make her happy (which I realize now that I can't do). Likely much of the debt we've accumulated was do to me saying "yes", when I should have said "no". Yes, I've had my vices and some of the issues are mine but far from all of them.

 

I'm venting a little which I will try not to do when spending any time with my wife. Strange as it may seem, I'm okay right now. When I first heard the words "I don't love you anymore", I cried my eyes out and went through the first week or two wondering how I could go on. I now realize that even if we don't reconcile I will have a life, and a good one, however i do believe we can make this thing work if we are both willing to try.

 

My wife mentioned tonight again that we went to marriage counseling already and that didn't work........................well, we went about 4 times about 10 years or more ago so I'd say it's been awhile and the issues we are dealing with now we weren't dealing with then. That's the strange thing, I feel like I've made so many changes for the positive since we've been married and now feel like due to my wife recalling every bad thing I've ever said or did for the whole 15 years that I'm paying for anything I've ever said or done no matter when it happened. At the end of the day if she doesn't let go of this stuff and decide to forgive it won't work. funny thing is there have been plenty of hurtful things she's said and done to me but I've always been pretty quick to forgive, i guess it's just my personality but life is too short, I'd rather get along and enjoy each other than hang onto past offenses.

 

Thanks again for your wisdom, I'll definitely do my best to follow the advice given. I know she still needs space and time to heal and hopefully come to the conclusion that I'm not Satan incarnate!

[confuzd]

I still love her and am glad I have supported her through this but at the same time she realizes none of it............not even when I offered to pay for a plane ticket to her sister's last week to see her sister who is having marriage problems. NOTHING I have done for her, my listening, understanding..........none of it seems to matter for now even though I have taken 100% of the blame for all of our problems when in reality there is more than enough blame to go around.

 

of course there is blame on both parts. you really want her to realize things that she is just not going to realize, at this time. It may take her months or even a year before she realizes it.

 

deep down I feel she still loves me..........................however she does not see ANY of my good points right now or any of the sacrifices I've made for her our whole married life. I love her but this is very frustrating

 

Frustrating as heck, I agree, but as long as you understand that the key word in that sentence is right now you will be okay, time is your friend, and patience is key. Let the anger subside, and she will have no choice to see things for what they are. You can not be the one to show it to her, she has to see it on her own or it won't matter.

 

At the end of the day if she doesn't let go of this stuff and decide to forgive it won't work.

your right, but how long are you willing to wait for her to do that, it's only been a short period of time, and you are already (understandably) ready to tell her to bug off.

 

I know she still needs space and time to heal and hopefully come to the conclusion that I'm not Satan incarnate!

Exactly, believe it, live by it, and don't lose hope.

[Mike1966]

My wife met me at McDonalds this morning when I was buying an iced coffee on my way into work. She was an emontional mess. She hurt her thumb trying to move things on her own as she's now wanting to rent the apartment............I have offered to help or move her several times but told her she needs to let me know.

 

She's saying I keep hurting her whenever I mention to any of my friend/counselors that in the beginning I thought she was having an affair. I told her I realize that and I wasn't trying to hurt her, just trying to understand why the woman I felt loved me and shared a good marriage with me after 15 years had all of the sudden decided she was leaving me and didn't love me. She understood, I think.

 

I'm really worried for her physical and mental health. I think she needs to be able to talk with someone and as of yet she has not done so. Since I have now decided to buy a house for my kids and I and am moving on, temporarily, we started talking yesterday about child support/alimony/splitting debt......etc. I offered her 1/2 my salary for 1 year then only child support. She was okay with that yesterday but now she's saying how can I manage when I may not make very much as I don't have a college degree?? I feel for her and told her that i will take care of her no matter what a divorce paper says, but, she is the one wanting the divorce right now and how long am I supposed to remain financially responsible for her? What if I meet someone else in a year or two??

 

I still love my wife and want this to work, and deep down I know she doesn't even want this divorce but at the same time is driven to move forward with this thing. She wants me to come out for lunch today and bring a sandwich for each of us.................we were supposed to meet later today to work on each of our budgets and splitting up debt, furniture...etc. She said this morning after we got done talking that it went well but what the hell is that supposed to mean?? I feel like saying "so, does that mean you still want to see an attorney this week?" This is plain crazy!! She said something again in our conversation about how I didn't love her the right way and I was like "just tell me what way that is and I'll jump off a cliff to do it".

 

Anyway, please pray for my guidence today as I'll be meeting with her later.

[Mike1966]

I know I've had tons of updates lately but it seems like the roller coaster ride just keeps going and going.

 

I met with my wife today and brought lunch out to her at our house. She was watching a movie.............we ate lunch and watched some of the movie together. It was "A Knights Tale" which we both enjoy watching sometimes.

 

We took a break after eating and she showed me a list of furniture, what she will take to her apartment and what I will take to the house I'm planning to buy. Everything went fine. I then asked about what she mentioned about divorce over the weekend, to which she replied "there's a lot going on this week so I don't want to make any decisions about that for the next couple of weeks". I said OK.

 

We talked a little more in the kitchen as we made iced lattes before I went back to work. We talked about the type of love I had displayed in our marriage, how she didn't know if I could love her the way she needed to be loved. She asked me when the last time I kissed her passionately was, I told her to remember that it was just a few months ago in this very house..................not that long ago though it seemed the way she brought it up that it had been an eternity.

 

I told her I did know the type of intimacy she desired and I desired to..................and, that at this time I didn't want sex but wanted the opportunity to just spend the afternoon holding her........like we used to do when we dated years ago. Back then, I even would wear jeans if i stayed overnight with her because I respected her enough not to want anything to happen before we were married..................however, at that time she really felt like if I loved her I would have sex with her so we did have sex before we were married.

 

I asked her to come close to me and let me hold her............she did, and I stroked her hair and her back. I asked her if it soothed her...............she said it was neither here nor there, kind of like a friend holding her which obivously wasn't what I wanted to hear but I took it in stride and again mentioned to her that I could be the type of guy to provide unconditional love for her.

 

We had been looking at a picture of her, me and our girls taken at Disney World just a couple of years ago and it made me a little sad. She asked me about what hairstyle I liked best on her, that one, or the one she had now. I told her she had beautiful hair no matter what hairstyle (she does, it was no line) but that I like it straightened as she does wear it most times now.

 

Anyway, while I have come to the understanding that I can move on if I need to, I still have feelings for my wife. She told me she isn't letting herself have feelings for me at this point, so, I think they are there, she has just built an emotional wall right now.

 

I will stop asking about divorce or separation for now and just try my best to let things unfold. Unfortunately, I don't think she's going to have the space she needs until we close on the house we're selling which could be anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month away. She is starting to move into her apartment this week and I've offered to help her as her thumb is hurt now.

 

Any wisdom during this continual cycle is appreciated. I know I need to give her space and I do not call her, but she checks in with me on various things every day. I can tell she feels right now like I'm her friend and maybe she's trying to see if it's just better to remain that way? As I mentioned to her this morning, I really think she's chasing a dream at this point thinking she'll be able to land in life somewhere with no stress or problems.

 

Ideas??

[Mike1966]

I realize I've updated quite a bit lately but it seems like things change with the wind in my situation or my wife's feelings.

 

My wife and I went for an iced coffee last night and had a very nice time. I have been looking at cost-effective houses for my kids and I, my wife is getting an apartment, this was an hour or so before I was looking at another house so I invited her to have some coffee.

 

It was kind of like a date............first off, she has been pulling back from me whenever I touch her since this whole thing started. Last night, she allowed me to casually touch her arm, back, open doors for her.......i could tell she genuinely wanted to be with me and was enjoying the company, maybe just as a friend, who knows.

 

Later, after I dropped her off and went to look at houses, she called when i was done and was in town wanting to know where I was and wanting to drive by a house I'm making an offer on. We then drove by her apartment (it's vacant) and went to the back porch and stood talking about how nice it would be for her. I could just sense an almost open door (maybe not, who knows) to hold her hand and give her a kiss but I didn't try it.

 

Anyway, I've been sleeping pretty good but last night was terrible and I was up for awhile in the middle of the night. One thing I have been focusing on during all of this is not playing head games.................if I feel like complimenting my wife, telling her something, I don't hold back I just tell her. Last night, I really felt like mentioning to her some things about our relationship and how I really felt about her and how I really wanted to understand her better in case we did eventually work things out.

 

As I was reading personal email this morning, she popped up to chat on yahoo. She hurt her thumb the other day and couldn't type so well but wanted to chat. All she said about my email last night was about me not sleeping well, but the way she "chatted" it, I could tell she wasn't offended by anything I said/wrote. We chatted for awhile then I went to work.

 

She then called me later in the morning after I looked at yet another property (which I hope I get, made and offer but don't know anything yet) and told me she signed her apartment lease but they said she would be able to get out of it early if she needed to depending on this..............so, the ole' mind goes racing, does this mean in case we get back together, or, in case you want a divorce and want to live who knows where. Anyway, it seems like the tone of her voice is very positive but hard to tell if she's just trying to be a friend and keeping the emotions off or if she is trying to build a friendship that could lead to more.

 

I did tell her in my email last night that once we each get moved that I will try to give her more space, less emails.....overall less contact to try and provide what she needs. This has been impossible while selling a house with everything going on. At the same time, I told her to not mistake my lack of contact for lack of love for her or lack of interest in reconciliation which is something I deeply desire.

 

Anyway, I'd appreciate any input as to changes I may or may not want to make during this time. It seems so topsy/turvey so it's difficult.........still trying to find that pattern that works but there doesn't seem to be one. As lysne mentioned once I really do need to try and better understand the root causes of her hurts. At the same time, I almost feel we're better off now just focusing on enjoying each other when we can rather than bringin up the past.

[confuzd]

Hey Mike,

You said you wish you were in my shoes, well from what I am reading it seems you are exactly where I was not to long ago. Your wife is slowly opening up, but she will close up just as fast as she opens, so be prepared for that. Its a game of give and take for her. If she feels she is giving you too much she will pull back, hard.

 

I noticed you keep mentioning the friend thing, as if being her friend is a bad thing. I guess your worried about being in her friend zone. Well that should not be a worry of yours. Right now you should try your darndest to be her best friend. Do not worry about being placed in that friend box, your wife wants a husband that can also be her best friend.

 

She knows you are not just a friend, so don't worry about that. Right now do everything you can to show her that you can be her best friend, supportive, understanding, attentive, and caring.

 

Also one thing that helps me now is that when my wife does get upset or want to vent, and argue. I see these as opportunities to show that I have changed, and I now welcome these opportunities. These are the true tests for her, it's easy to show how loving you are when times are good, but when they are rough that's when you really get to shine. So welcome the rough times, these are your opportunities to prove you've changed, don't mess them up.

[Mike1966]

Thanks so much for the words of encouragement, confuzed. It means tons.................one thing I've realized through this is you have to stay focused. I have friends and/or family that give advise based on seeing you being hurt, like you should just be prideful and/or indifferent or hurt your wife back which is the furthest thing she needs. If I hadn't read some of the discussion here, I may have completely handled the situation inappropriately and verywell have a divorce in process.

 

Yes...........the arguements or other issues that come up are definitely opportunities to shine. So far I'd say I'm batting a little over .500 but would really like to get victory over the old self for good and be able to remain calm and non-defensive in any situation.

 

I appreciate the input on being a friend to my wife..............it's a little scary sometimes as I feel if she just thinks of me as her friend it'll be like "oh, I think of him as a friend so that must mean I don't really love him". As you mentioned before, believe about half (or less) of what you hear from your wife during this time definitely applies.

[PWSX3]

Remember in a relationship you have to be friends first....

 

Like I said before when she talks about having trouble with something, don't always jump in to help, just listen to what she is saying. There are things she wants to just talk out with you but she wants to be the one that figures it out.

 

Last winter we had a good size snow storm & me & the W were on talking turns then. The W called me & asked what I was doing? I said I was at my folks cleaning there driveway. She asked me if I would come "help" her with hers later & I said; I still had another one to do but then I would come over & help.

 

I didn't want to just jump over there because I wanted her to get out & start working on it herself. When I finally showed up I got the snow blower out & made a couple paths, then asked her if she wanted to take a turn at it. After we were finished she said; thanks for the help & thanks for not just doing it & gave me a "KISS".......

 

Now I wasn't expecting that at all, but what was important to her was letting her help, not just doing the job for her.

 

It also sounds like touching her is important to you & you have to remember that is the farthest from her mind & even if she does let you that doesn't mean she is getting anything from it.

 

Just like confuzd said; right now just being a friend is the best thing you can do. I know it is hard but you push to much & she can turn & run real quick & each time she does that she will run farther away & it will take longer for her to trust you the next time.

 

Just work on getting your place, work on yourself & what you can do & things will fall into place, just remember they might not be end up the way you want them to but you will be O.K. in the end no matter what...

[Mike1966]

PWSX3 -

 

Thanks for the encouragement. Your advice is spot on. Yes, I'm a normal guy in that I always want to give advice and/or fix things when my wife merely wants me to listen to her and understand. I'm getting it but it's slow.

 

I helped my wife move a few things in her apartment today and it went pretty good. Some of the furniture she is selling from our house allowed her to buy a sofa and chair for her apartment which was great. She was excited and called to share it with me..............I enthusiastically shared her excitement.

 

Then, she called me later about helping her with something else and made a special point to mention how much she appreciated me telling her what a good deal I thought she got on the furniture and that I was excited for her................it made me feel very good.

 

Also, this is interesting, she has mentioned a couple of times in the last few days things about "in case I need to get out of the lease, I can", or "the furniture I bought today is apartment-sized, but we could sell it or something down the road if we didn't need it (or it didn't fit, something like that)".................I took it to mean "if I end up moving into your new house with you and the kids". Anyway, I still realize that is not even close to being on the table now but who knows, it may be in the future.

 

Wierd, last weekend, because of some things I had shared with a friend about our separation and my suspicions of an affair early on, my wifes feelings were hurt and she unemotionally told me she wanted to go ahead with the divorce. Then, two nights ago when we had coffee we got along great............like on a date, then today she thanked me about the furniture compliment. WOW.....................I'm feeling more emotions than I ever have my whole life!!!!

 

Anyway, at the end of the day, I realize my wife still may not want to reconcile and I do know that I'll be okay..............at the same time I also feel like things are maybe starting to improve a little...........at least we seem to be letting go of the past and establishing a friendship which is something.

 

Thanks for the advice,

[Mike1966]

Well......

 

I took my kids to the movies tonight to see the Bourne Ultimatum which was very good by the way. My wife had said she was going to her Mother's which was 1 hour away but would be back in the morning to meet me with the kids.

 

A little background on the possible affair. My wife and I hosted a small group through our church this past year. About 4 months ago, I invited a guy from our church to attend. He is about our age. Very funny guy, married but has had marital problems and his wife doesn't attend church with him. We had he and his wife over a few times...........my wife and this guy have a lot of the same interests and they hit it off real well.

 

This guy is very smart and has the abiliity to set up web pages for people. So, my wife wanted to start a business baking and selling cookies so this guy set her up with business cards, of course my wife would take them to the guys work place (I knew about this) and sell them to people quite often. I didn't suspect anything but kind of wondered just the same.

 

We'll, my wife told me she didn't love me anymore 1 1/2 months ago and that she had committed "emotional adultry" in that she had dreamt of other men, I believe this guy was one of them. The reality is they probably wouldn't be able to stand each other if married but then the grass is always greener.

 

I initially suspected her of liking him and maybe them having an affair. I confronted her with it several weeks ago and she told me that it wasn't about that and continued her venting on my faults.

 

We'll, we moved my wife into an apartment a couple of nights ago so she is now on her own for good without me having access to her place. she said she was going to her mothers to see her nephews tonight but when i left the movie with the kids at 7:30pm I though "I'll drive by her apartment just in case"...........I guess I still had my suspicions. Initially I didn't see her vehicle right out front where she always parked but caught a glimpse of it kind of out of sight off to the side. I thought, well, I'll drive through just in case...........kind of tough because I had my daughters with me.

 

Sure enough, this guys car was there and my heart just sank. I emotionlessly told my kids to stay put and that I'd be back. Went othe apartment door and knocked...............it took a little while but then after much fiddling with the lock and trying to open the door they opened it. I could tell they were sheepish. I should have checked the bed right off but for some reason I didn't.

 

It was all I could do to keep from kicking this guys ass. I was so mad and emotionally upset and was not calm. They both said they had just been talking about each others problems (he has a troubled marriage......whoopeee). Funny thing is I had already accused each of them of an affair weeks before. And, I specifically told this guy at church Sunday, "My wife is an emotional mess right now and the last thing she needs is the counsel of another man". We'll, I guess that showed me where his loyalty lied.

 

I'm not sure if they were sleeping together when i came there or not. May have been enough time to get dressed and come to the door. As I think back, they may not have been. Of course they were calm and tried to justify it being okay for him to be there but I wasn't having any of it and was very upset. Told them how inappropriate I thought it was...........told him he betrayed me...............used a lot of profanity which isn't really me...............I was portrayed as the "out of control jerk" to them as if this was all supposed to be okay.

 

We argued 1/2 hour or so when I finally told my wife she was getting what she wanted now, a divorce. I tried leaving a couple of times but was an emotional mess and told my kids to go with my wife and stay with her as I needed some time alone. I warned the guy that if he came back there'd be hell to pay and I'd kick his ass...............or rather rearrange his face. he was very meek and didn't say much.

 

So.........was my wife screwing him or has she? right now, I'd say it's in the emotional stage but it will eventually be there, it just hasn't developed yet. However I could be wrong. Anyway, I called my wife later that night and, much more calmly, and told her we can meet tomorrow morning at 10am to divide up debts (not too many assets there) and that I'd pay her support for 1 or 2 years but then she's on her own.

 

I'm devistated and hurt beyond belief! Crushed! I really thought she just needed space..............i feel so betrayed. It could be that they are really just friend but even so, with my wife and I separated and he having marital problems with his wife and has cheated on her before I believe it's just a matter of time.

 

whats worse is that my wife told my daughters what I did and one of them called me and told me her mother could have this guy there and that they were just friends and that i couldn't tell mom what to do (she's 13). I feel like all I've done through this process is been a doormat............I'm giving my wife 1/2 my paycheck as she's always been an at-home mom and feel like all I've done this whole time is gone to counseling to work on myself, take all the blame for our problems....etc.............

 

I'm sick of it. I still want to come through this changed for the better and don't believe in divorce but also believe that God opened a door for me by allowing me to see this tonight telling me it's time to move on no matter how painful of a process that will be.

 

We are meeting to divide things up tomorrow. She's pretty much getting what she wants so I'm sure she'll be happy. didn't want to meet me at our house as since i was angry tonight she thought I may hurt her..............though I never have and felt completely justified in my anger.

 

Any prayers, advice or other is appreciated. Even if she wants to reconcile at this point she can kiss my a$$.

[Mr M.]

I haven't read all of the postings........sorry, they are just too many.......but I feel that if you decided to move on and start a brand new life by...

 

-solving your financial situation

-getting a better (or a second) job

-finding a new apartment and possibly your own home

 

...you would have a very good chance of having her back.

 

The problem with this, of course, is that you do not have to care about your previous relationship in order to put it back together.......which is quite a illogical statement, but..........aren't women illogical at times (at least most of them......ok, some of them?)? Most of them/some of them (ohhhhh, whatever : ) are emotional creatures (which has its advantages and disadvantages) and as long as you keep giving her the idea that she is so special to you and that you need her badly in your life she will keep running away from you. My advises are not the easiest to follow and it takes a lot of confidence to have them work (confidence that I don't even have)......but I have seen them working rather well in the past. All this said, I feel very sorry about your situation, mostly because you guys have 2 kids together. The best of luck to you!

 

M.

[Mike1966]

Right now I'm crushed, suspect she has been unfaithful to me (emotionally at the very least) and don't want her back. This has hurt beyond belief..........especially the betrayal.........even it the affair isn't physical "yet", it likely will be.

 

We are meeting at 10am this morning to roll up our sleeves and detail out the divorce, amicably.

 

As for another job I suppose I could, she at the least should start working now as she'll inherit 1/2 our debtload. My job actually pays very well (low 6 figures) we just have spent a lot of money over the years. I am buying a modest home for myself and the kids (when I have them, every other week).

 

Any other tips on how to proceed would be helpful. Deep down I still don't want divorce but don't trust her anymore either. Sad thing is, since I was upset last night and left my kids with my wife, now they everyone (including them) is acting like I overreacted with the guy being in my apartment doing God-knows-what with my wife before they could get the frickin door open. This is surreal.

[PWSX3]

So you found out that she "might" be having an affair, you don't know that for sure.

I know it hurts & you do lose all the trust in that person, you are angry & hurt, but those are emotions & they will change from day to day.

 

As I told you before she has been moving on in your relationship WAY before she actually moved out, she hasn't felt loved for a while so when someone comes around & shows interest in her sure she is going to eat that up. I'm not saying they are sleeping together, but someone is listening to her, they are paying attention to her & that is what she is looking for.

 

I had an affair on my W over 15 years ago & I'm not proud of it, but I want to share that with you because I can tell you from experience what it is like from that side.

How often do you see someone that stole something say; Oh sure I stole that, it doesn't happen, so why would you think SHE would tell you the truth???????

 

An affair is like an addition, you know you shouldn't be doing it, you know it isn't right, but you still do it because it is making you happy & that is as far as you can see, you are only worried about making YOU happy....

 

Right now you guys need time apart, just like we keep telling you she needs time to herself to see what she really is going to miss... Sure right now for her it is fun, she gets her own place, she can watch whatever TV show she wants, she can come & go as she pleases, she gets to invite whoever she wants into her place, but then MR. R will set in & she will start thinking.

 

I know this might be hard to hear, & I might be a little ruff but you kind of hit a sore spot to me. You talk about being a Christian person but you see someone with your W & you go crazy, aren't Christians supposes to be better then that?

To me that just shows me everyone is human, everyone can make a mistake, but some of us have to suck it up & be the responsible one in the relationship & you have to decide if that is what you want to be.

 

Do you have someone at your church that you can talk to, a counselor of some kind? I don't feel like divorce is what God wants but he does let us make our own choices, we do get to decide which path we want to take. I was raised a Christian, but I don't go to church now but I still believe. A lot of the books I have been reading are from Christian people & it does help. Does it help get my marriage back together I don't know, does it help me try & be a better person? YES!!! & that is all I can do. If I'm a better person hopefully that will show in my actions & that will help our marriage.

 

Just like you said, there is a good chance she has been using you, its time she is on her own let her ask friends for help or do it herself, you don't need to help her specially since she wants her space. Don't be rude or mean, but don't volunteer for anything either.

 

I don't know if I helped or not, but hopefully I just gave you some things to think about. There are always three sides to a story, your side, her side, & then the truth.

 

Don't waste time wondering what she is doing because that is just taking energy that you can be using to help yourself, I know that is easier said then done, trust me, been there done that....