Believing one's own lies????

[luvstarved]

OK many here know my saga so won't rehash here, will try to get to the point for once...

 

My H and I are making decent headway in counseling and getting down to some of the nitty-gritty issues, one of which has been my jealousy. I have come to realize that while I do have some tendency toward jealousy independent of anything else, it has never been as bad as it has been in recent months. So H, counselor and I have been merrily picking me apart for what is wrong with me...but I also realized that some of this jealousy is attributable to my H's behavior, specifically dishonesty.

 

I brought this up in last counseling session and H just totally got indignant and was pretty much claiming that he is honest to a fault. I tried to make my point without getting specific, just basically tried to request that henceforth he make an effort to be more honest. But he just denied any incidences of lying at all!

 

So...I pointed out a few that really bothered me. Not so much dumb little white lies...I get that that happens. But the ones where he betrayed a confidence, rewrote history, VERY INDIGNANTLY denied that he was lying when I knew 100% that he was and telling me I had "trust" issues in the process, or...telling lies about ME that turn the tables and claim that I am the one guilty of what I am upset with him about (and I don't mean abstract s**t like "you're being mean" - he recently actually claimed that I was looking at porn just as much as he was, and there just isn't even a whiff of truth to that). It happens a lot and his immediate excuse is that he had to lie to protect me or because I could not "handle the truth", but later on - he never lied at all. I know that he lies for one reason: to protect himself. Doesn't matter though. A lie is a lie and especially the way he indignantly insists he is telling the truth leads me to not trust him all that much.

 

At this last session, he said "well SHE lies to ME all the time" as we were discussing HIS dishonesty!!! WTF? Of course he could not come up with a single example...because I DON'T lie beyond the vary rare teeny tiny white lie that I would turn into truth right away ("yes I mailed that bill" as I change course to swing by the post office). He claims that he doesn't even white lie and is just too honest for his own good type of thing.

 

Guys, I don't want brutal honesty. But...the ease with which he lies and the denial of even doing it and the telling lies that make me look bad just to make himself look better...makes me nuts.

 

But I am wondering if it really is possible that he could be so entrenched in his own insecurity and this OVERWHELMING need to not be blamed for anything and to always APPEAR to be Mr Wonderful that he actually BELIEVES that he is so honest? I don't know whether he is trying to kid me or is actually kidding himself, but either way I am not sure where to go with this. It was kind of left as , well, if you're so honest, then I guess my request that you be honest with me should be a snap...so, thanks!

 

I found this great quote, believe it or not from Ted Williams the baseball player and showed it to H. He liked the quote but encouraged me to look for one that extolled honesty and integrity..."focus on the positive"!! Sigh.

 

“We tell lies when we are afraid... afraid of what we don't know, afraid of what others will think, afraid of what will be found out about us. But every time we tell a lie, the thing that we fear grows stronger.”

[Lynna]

I think you are probably right, he probably DOES believe his own lies. Have you talked to the counselor independently about all this? It seems that is something that needs to be explored too, why is he dishonest and why does he cover up that dishonesty?

[silktricks]

But I am wondering if {snip} he actually BELIEVES that he is so honest? I don't know whether he is trying to kid me or is actually kidding himself, but either way I am not sure where to go with this.

 

Having formerly had 2 people in my life who constantly re-wrote history to suit themselves, I would bet you ANY amount of money that he does actually believe that he is so honest. He probably also believes most of the lies that he tells.

[child_of_isis]

Gaslighting.

 

Pure and simple.

 

Surely the MC spotted it? If not, fire him/her.

[Miss Jane]

Sorry to hear about what you are going through. My husband can convince himself of anything. I didn't realize how deep the lies were until recently. I think that he truly believes himself. I posed a few questions that I knew what was true and he gave me a different answer that I knew was a lie. Not only that--he went out of his way to prove me wrong. I've never had a relationship with someone that lies before. If they were my boyfriend, I would have dumped him. But after being married for 23 years--it has taken it's toll with his most recent lie--an omission. I started a thread on the topic "is not telling the same as lying". I got some great responses and some really good quotes. One that I particularly like was:

Lies are like mushrooms. They grow in the dark and multiply like maggots on a rotting corpse.

 

It doesn't get better. Every time you overlook a lie, you lie to yourself, deny the deception, and precipitate more lies by your actions. If they know they can get away with it, they'll do it again. One lie will cover up another until the truth becomes a blurr forever.

 

Love is a verb and is shown by actions, not words. Lying is not love. It is disrespectful not only to you, but to your relationship. Lying destroys intimacy and replaces it with paranoia and distrust.

 

There is no love without trust.

 

 

 

Right now, I'm still trying to figure out if I can ever trust again. It sounds like your husband does the same thing as mine--he gets all upset and defensive when you try to talk about things, the truth, the situation. To me, that only shows me that he knows he is lying. He just can't ever admit that he is wrong.

 

 

You said that you were jealous. The other threads that I have posted on dealt with strip clubs and how upset I was when I found out (of course he didn't tell me--I found out accidentally) that he got a lap dance at a strip club. I don't think I'm jealous, but it did bring out my insecurities--like crazy! He hadn't been to a strip club in the 22 years we were married and it really shocked me. You mentioned porn--does your husband go to clubs?