I would like to understand...

[whichwayisup]

I have to tell you this... I enjoy reading all your posts... you are so right... I like the way you put things out there.

 

You are one of the 'intelligent' poster on here...

 

I am not saying that to be a 'brown noser' LOL I really do enjoy reading your posts....

 

Yup, she is and so is LadyJane. Those two are in a league of their own!

[bish]

OOD....everyone here knows I am not a fan of cheaters and OM/OW.

 

However I have stated on here that I don't have anything against OM/OW that are in a relationship with a MM/MW and the MM/MW lied about their marital status.

 

So not every OW you speak of is cold and callous towards the wife.

 

But there are a few here, and we all know who they are, that could care less who they hurt and what homes they help to wreck.

 

Yes I know ...the MM is mostly to blame....blah blah blah... but there are a few here that think they have no responsibility to do the decent thing. As long as they get what they want, to hell with everyone else.

 

And like I said, its not all OW you speak of that do this. Some are just as much the victim of the MM as the W is. And some are not.

[Lizzie60]

Yup, she is and so is LadyJane. Those two are in a league of their own!

 

there are more than two 'intelligent' posters out here...but I had to tell her I enjoy reading her posts...

 

she is non judgemental, not a sugar coater, straight to the point... I like that.

 

I wish I could write like her...*sigh*

[outofdarkness]

for all of your replies...Please keep them coming...I really already know how SOME of you feel, as you are very opinionated..NOT a bad thing, it's just that you are excellent at getting your point across rather quickly...Thanks, and there's no need to keep posting on this thread, unless you just really enjoy it..

 

Anyone else out there have an OP on this topic...It's really been helpful to me...ood:)

[Shades of Grey]

My MM, from the start, portrayed a situation whereby his M revolved around the children and family duties and they each had very seperate hobbies and indeed lives external to the children. He claimed that he realised early on that he had compromised too much when he married because whilst he was always fond of his wife, he had never felt the emotional connection and love for her that he craved.

 

As such he had from very early on in their marriage sought this emotional connection through other relationships.

 

So to answer the original question I actually felt that the marriage was clearly a very unhappy one whereby the best thing for everyone, W included, would be that MM stopped lying to all involved,and accepted that it couldn't go on. Of course I realised that it was wrong to be involved with him whilst he was still married and should have waited for him to prove his assertions, but by this time I was also head over heels in love with him.

 

I know that they had had MC in the past and he had addressed his frustrations with lack of intimacy, sex and a relationship external to the children. She claimed that she no longer needed sex, that she got the affection she needed from the children and was content with her hobbies and her life and that his expectations of marriage were too high.

 

Therefore in no way did I ever feel that I was willingly, knowingly inflicting pain on his W. I hated the secrecy but I believed based on everything he told me that there was no future in their marriage and that it was a question of him accepting that and doing the right thing by his W in admitting it to her.

 

Of course I realise now that the sympathy aspect whether knowingly or subconsciously encouraged by the MM is a common theme in A's. And I am not by any means advocating that any of my opinions and feelings at the time were right but that was how I felt.

[GreenEyedLady]

How some of you; OW's that is, can be so cold and callous regarding their MM's W and family? I have tried and tried and tried to understand since first coming on LS almost one year ago, your "side" of things...Thus far, I have failed miserably.

 

Some seem to even sort of brag of their A's...I can understand that sometimes these things just happen, and I can certainly understand that MM's are excellent liars, but just to openly and blantently have an A w/ an MM with full knowledge that they are M and not to feel any remorse...To actually seem to be proud of the A...The lack of respect and degradation when referring to the W is astounding to me...I would just like to know why the contempt?

 

I think it's fair question..ood:confused:

 

I'm wondering how to word this...

 

I did not know he was married for over a year...His patterns are not that of someone who goes to work at 9am and is off by 5pm everyday, so it wasn't something that was obvious...

 

And when I found out the truth, it was truly heartbreaking...but I chose to stay with him because I loved him...that was my choice...

 

I have never felt animosity toward her...We are not opponents, we just find ourselves in love with the same man (I'm assuming here)...

 

And you will probably never understand, no matter how hard you try or how open-minded you try to be to it...You will never understand what it is like unless you have experienced the other side of it...

 

I felt compelled to post because it started to be a thread that wasn't really the other side at all...More people who are in "contempt" of us, degrade us, tell us that we are horrible people...Hate breeds hate...and I just want to say that like everyone we are people...And we make mistakes...

[Ladyjane14]

..And we make mistakes...

 

I don't think it's hard to understand that people make mistakes, GEL. What's difficult to comprehend is why some would appear to revel in a "mistake" that's sooooo harmful to others.

Why cleave to it?.. nurture it?... or unite with like-minded others in an effort to protect it?

 

It's easy to step in sh*t. Happens everyday. But why not wipe it off your boot when it does and then resolve to step a little lighter in the future?

[OpenBook]

I don't think it's hard to understand that people make mistakes, GEL. What's difficult to comprehend is why some would appear to revel in a "mistake" that's sooooo harmful to others.

Why cleave to it?.. nurture it?... or unite with like-minded others in an effort to protect it?

 

What exactly do you think we're "protecting" or "reveling in" here? We're uniting in order to help each other thru a very difficult time in which we are paying - DEARLY - for our mistakes. We're not trying to protect anything here, except maybe each other as we struggle to get back up.

 

It's easy to step in sh*t. Happens everyday. But why not wipe it off your boot when it does and then resolve to step a little lighter in the future?

 

And when we see someone ELSE stepping in it - just like we did - we try to warn them, or (if it's too late) to help them wipe off their boots. We don't start throwing sh*t at them, like you do.

[Cliche]

I don't think it's hard to understand that people make mistakes, GEL. What's difficult to comprehend is why some would appear to revel in a "mistake" that's sooooo harmful to others.

Why cleave to it?.. nurture it?... or unite with like-minded others in an effort to protect it?

 

It's easy to step in sh*t. Happens everyday. But why not wipe it off your boot when it does and then resolve to step a little lighter in the future?

Because we fall in love with these people. And sometimes marriages fail, and sometimes the As turn into long-term relationships when the marriages do fail. And we long for that so we hold on.

 

We fall in love. How is that so difficult to understand?

[Tomcat33]

What's difficult to comprehend is why some would appear to revel in a "mistake" that's sooooo harmful to others.

Why cleave to it?.. nurture it?... or unite with like-minded others in an effort to protect it?

 

 

Because no matter what is said here everyone is going to do what they please either way, when a person reaches out for an answer they somewhat know the answer already. They are just looking for some sort of affirmation that the path they are inclined to take is the right choice because nobody likes to fail or get hurt.

 

What exactly do you think we're "protecting" or "reveling in" here? We're uniting in order to help each other thru a very difficult time in which we are paying - DEARLY - for our mistakes. We're not trying to protect anything here, except maybe each other as we struggle to get back up.

 

I have the exact same question!?!?! good point OB.

 

The problem is more often than not we get sidetracked here by hurtful comments made by women and men who come in here just to get an angry insult in when they read something that does not sit well with them.

 

If it hurts you to read that for example "a cheating H was saying horrible things about his W and we stupidly or intelligently went along with it," why even bother coming to this forum to dispute our stupidity OR intelligence!?!? Pointing out trite observations that are neither here nor there.

 

It's like OB said we are just trying to help one another out trying to make sense of it all. Much like what the BSs are doing on the other side of the pond.

[Ladyjane14]

We fall in love. How is that so difficult to understand?

 

Very.... when it comes to choosing actions that are detrimental to the lives of other people. It lacks empathy. It lacks respect.

 

I can see how a person might form an emotional attachment to an inappropriate person, particularly when they're being fed a pretty good 'woe-is-me' tale.

 

I can even understand how a very young and inexperienced person would be vulnerable to strong feelings of sympathy which might undermine their judgment.

 

But I do NOT understand why an otherwise mature person would continue to engage in an action which is so massively destructive to other people... not for ANY reason. And I certainly don't understand why they would feel the need to form alliances or join factions in order to promote or support it.

[Cliche]

Very.... when it comes to choosing actions that are detrimental to the lives of other people. It lacks empathy. It lacks respect.

 

I can see how a person might form an emotional attachment to an inappropriate person, particularly when they're being fed a pretty good 'woe-is-me' tale.

 

I can even understand how a very young and inexperienced person would be vulnerable to strong feelings of sympathy which might undermine their judgment.

 

But I do NOT understand why an otherwise mature person would continue to engage in an action which is so massively destructive to other people... not for ANY reason. And I certainly don't understand why they would feel the need to form alliances or join factions in order to promote or support it.

 

And I guess I don't understand why you care.

 

But neither of us truly needs to explain ourselves to another so I'll be content to end it there.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, if you've got a better answer than the ones we've already seen... curious minds do want to know.

 

Specifically, I'd like to know how it's possible to ignore the betrayed spouse's belief system, a person who ostensibly believes in monogamous marriage. Regardless of the MM/MW-cheater's given permission to interlope upon the marriage, how does one reconcile the fact that the BS is in the dark and unable to consent to the intrusion... or even to the health risk?

 

Why is disrespect of another person's race or religion taboo, when disrespect of their deepest moral beliefs is not?

[luvmy2ns]

Very.... when it comes to choosing actions that are detrimental to the lives of other people. It lacks empathy. It lacks respect.

 

And there you have it. So succinctly put.

[annabelle75]

Well, if you've got a better answer than the ones we've already seen... curious minds do want to know.

 

Specifically, I'd like to know how it's possible to ignore the betrayed spouse's belief system, a person who ostensibly believes in monogamous marriage. Regardless of the MM/MW-cheater's given permission to interlope upon the marriage, how does one reconcile the fact that the BS is in the dark and unable to consent to the intrusion... or even to the health risk?

 

Why is disrespect of another person's race or religion taboo, when disrespect of their deepest moral beliefs is not?

 

Its very simple. The A is not about the BS.

[Ladyjane14]

Its very simple. The A is not about the BS.

 

That doesn't explain how one gives themselves permission initially to engage in it though. More times than not OM/OW come to us with tales of the disastrous state of the cheater's marriage. This is often the impetus for their initial agreement to become involved. In those cases, it's because they believe what they're told about the BS that they're sympathetic.

 

Let's face it... if a MM comes up to you and says, "I'm happily married with two kids, a minivan, and a Labrador retriever, but you've got a really nice ass. Let's go"... are you feeling particularly compliant?

 

It also doesn't explain why a person who's been reading in a format like LS and has become educated to the dynamics of affairs would elect to continue. There's a new tale of betrayal in the Infidelity or Divorce forum almost daily. And these people are usually NOT monsters. Often enough, they've done nothing wrong at all. How can anyone close their eyes to the damaging effects of adultery after bearing witness to so many tales of heart-wrenching tragedy? How can a person continue once they KNOW the collateral damage?

[lindya]

How can anyone close their eyes to the damaging effects of adultery after bearing witness to so many tales of heart-wrenching tragedy? How can a person continue once they KNOW the collateral damage?

 

I think people sometimes take the view that provided they lack the intention to cause another person pain, then they're absolved of blame for any pain that the person does experience. Also, other people's grief is probably easy to dismiss if you choose to perceive it as something they made a conscious decision to feel and that they could therefore stop feeling, if only they'd be a bit more sophisticated and pragmatic about things.

 

Once you've pushed painful human emotions into ugly boxes marked "moralising" and "bitterness" it's probably quite easy to avoid caring about the people who are trying to deal with those emotions.

[Lizzie60]

How can anyone close their eyes to the damaging effects of adultery after bearing witness to so many tales of heart-wrenching tragedy? How can a person continue once they KNOW the collateral damage?

 

Smokers hear about people dying of lung cancer every day... do they stop smoking... no.

 

Obese people know they are damaging their health... do they watch what they're eating.. no.

 

We all know drugs are dangerous... does it stop people from starting or trying it.. no.

 

I see adultery the same way... we know it's wrong but we still do it. weird heh?

[lindya]

Smokers hear about people dying of lung cancer every day... do they stop smoking... no.

 

Obese people know they are damaging their health... do they watch what they're eating.. no.

 

We all know drugs are dangerous... does it stop people from starting or trying it.. no.

 

I see adultery the same way... we know it's wrong but we still do it. weird heh?

 

I think those are good points, and I've considered the same thing - ie that if people can destroy their own lives through addictions why would we expect them to hesitate before hurting other people in the pursuit of their own desires.

 

Then again, there are a lot of people out there who destroy themselves in all sorts of ways - yet can't bear the idea of causing hurt to other people. Addicts who can't give up their habit for themselves, but get the motivation to change when they see how much anxiety their addiction is causing to those who love them.

 

There are some people out there who seem to care an awful lot more about others than they care about themselves. It's not very pleasant to watch a person like that getting their whole life shafted by a fully paid up member of the "me first" brigade.

[Darth Vader]

Well, if you've got a better answer than the ones we've already seen... curious minds do want to know.

 

Specifically, I'd like to know how it's possible to ignore the betrayed spouse's belief system, a person who ostensibly believes in monogamous marriage. Regardless of the MM/MW-cheater's given permission to interlope upon the marriage, how does one reconcile the fact that the BS is in the dark and unable to consent to the intrusion... or even to the health risk?

 

Why is disrespect of another person's race or religion taboo, when disrespect of their deepest moral beliefs is not?

 

 

They think "what they don't know won't hurt them" which is false!

[herenow]

OOD, I know what you are going through and I know how hard it is to understand the mind of an OW. That is how I know that you will never be able to get the answer you are looking for. The reason I came to LS months ago is to find the same insight. What I found was that I was giving the OW too much power.

 

The stories I read here, ones from OW who had been hurt and were looking for their own answers and ones from OW who just wanted the MM at any cost, made me realize that as a BW, I couldn't relate and I needed to accept the fact that no one was going to give me an answer that I could understand. With that, the OW became (as I have said oh so many times) irrelevant. When I let go of any feelings toward the OW, I was able to focus on myself, my husband and fixing the problems in my marriage that caused this mess in the first place.

 

I have to say that letting go of the OW and any feelings I had towards her was the best thing I did for my sanity and my marriage.

[annabelle75]

That doesn't explain how one gives themselves permission initially to engage in it though. More times than not OM/OW come to us with tales of the disastrous state of the cheater's marriage. This is often the impetus for their initial agreement to become involved. In those cases, it's because they believe what they're told about the BS that they're sympathetic.

 

Let's face it... if a MM comes up to you and says, "I'm happily married with two kids, a minivan, and a Labrador retriever, but you've got a really nice ass. Let's go"... are you feeling particularly compliant?

 

It also doesn't explain why a person who's been reading in a format like LS and has become educated to the dynamics of affairs would elect to continue. There's a new tale of betrayal in the Infidelity or Divorce forum almost daily. And these people are usually NOT monsters. Often enough, they've done nothing wrong at all. How can anyone close their eyes to the damaging effects of adultery after bearing witness to so many tales of heart-wrenching tragedy? How can a person continue once they KNOW the collateral damage?

 

This is why you will never get it. I don't think you really want an honest answer. You just want to keep pushing the same diatribe down our throats.

 

It's not about the BS. The OM/OW doesn't even think about the BS. If their own spouse has so little respect for their marriage, why should the OM/OW feel the need to respect it? It's not about the M. The relationship between the MM/MW and the OM/OW is just about them.

 

That is the answer whether or not you choose to accept it. They don't think about about the BS. It isn't about entitlement or disrespect. It isn't about the BS at all.

[OpenBook]

the OW became (as I have said oh so many times) irrelevant. When I let go of any feelings toward the OW, I was able to focus on myself, my husband and fixing the problems in my marriage that caused this mess in the first place.

 

Believe it or not, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The OW is irrelevant to the H-W relationship, nor is she the cause of the breakdown in that relationship. THE OW SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. At least, not in a marriage that was built to last.

[herenow]

This is why you will never get it. I don't think you really want an honest answer. You just want to keep pushing the same diatribe down our throats.

 

It's not about the BS. The OM/OW doesn't even think about the BS. If their own spouse has so little respect for their marriage, why should the OM/OW feel the need to respect it? It's not about the M. The relationship between the MM/MW and the OM/OW is just about them.

 

That is the answer whether or not you choose to accept it. They don't think about about the BS. It isn't about entitlement or disrespect. It isn't about the BS at all.

 

You are absolutely correct, it's not about the BS, but is also not about the OW. In most cases, the OW is the person that happened to be there and willing at the time the MM was in need of whatever he was lacking. It's always about the MM and what he wants. That is why in most cases both the BW and OW and left asking questions.

 

The difference is, the OW has the knowledge that the man is married (with a few exceptions) and has an affair anyway even though she knows it will hurt the BW and possibly the kids. That is what this thread is about.

 

I know that you will say that it's all the MM's fault and the OW didn't make any promises, but OOD is asking how a OW can do something with the knowledge that she could be hurting another person, not who's fault it is.

[herenow]

Believe it or not, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The OW is irrelevant to the H-W relationship, nor is she the cause of the breakdown in that relationship. THE OW SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. At least, not in a marriage that was built to last.

 

There are many marriages that survive affairs only to become stronger because both partners are willing to accept their part in the breakdown of the marriage and fix the problems that they have as individuals and as a couple.