Jobs and careers.

[Lights]

I got a pretty good review at my job.

 

In any other situation, I'd be happy, but I'm tired of coding, and I fear that I'll never really be able to advance in real terms no matter how hard I work or study in that field (I never was that talented a programmer).

 

What also frustrates me is that despite years of effort, I have never been able to get any jobs or worthwhile opportunities for myself; it was always family connections in the industry that got me anywhere. The money is nice, but my own relative lack of agency compared to the power of connections makes me sick; I'm tired of working on and on and yet forever being viewed as being de minimis save for the grace of another merciful puppeteer in a twisted connection-based system that reminds me of the compareggio in the movie "Godfather".

 

What does it really take to be valued in the corporate world in and of oneself, and able to transcend this sort of valuation-solely-by-connections? That's the question I really wonder about, and it burns me up to no end. How much must I institutionalize myself in universities, or throw away perfectly good nights working longer hours in an office, just to chase after a phantom that forever seems to remain out of reach?

 

I can only imagine how it would work if I ever sought to change careers. For all the myths of transferable skills that the career "gurus" spout, it seems that nothing ever even gets the proverbial foot in the door.

 

I'd ditch this all, but even that's not enough; I can't think of any other comparably-paying job (or of many that pay far less) that anyone would consider me hireable for, and have no way of knowing how to transcend the situation there should it reappear.

 

I also fear not knowing how to stay far enough ahead of global competition in nearly any career.

 

Has anyone succeeded here?

 

If you've read this far, I thank you for listening to my ranting.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

How long have you been in this career? If you have diverse skills, have you thought of contracting out some of your programming work? There are alot of smaller companies that can't afford to hire full time technical staff and prefer to hire by the job/contract. Plus you can get away with charging twice as much as your regular rate of pay. I do this on my own time, and I'm a lousy programmer! But there is always something YOU can do WAY better than someone else.

[jerbear]

We are all under a puppeteer of some sort or another. Societal, money, familiar, spouse, offspring, etc...

 

Here are some transferable skills that programmers/coders/blah blah can transfer:

 

Logic

Project management

Reasoning

Problem solving

Creativity

Modeling (not the fashion one)

Leadership (when you become team lead)

 

There comes a time when a individual staff has to move from task based to functional to strategic thinking.

 

After college, most of my job leads came from networking, for example: friends, alumni, friends of friends.

 

Please clarify on what stage of your career you are in?

 

If you have just started, I would considers some specialization, ie: web applications, operating systems, algorithms. Even certifications maybe helpful for your next steps, (Oracle, SAP, some ERP, etc...)

 

If you are closer to mid career, consider a master's degree or even an advanced certification like Project Management. Project management skills can be used across industries and functional lines of business.

[HokeyReligions]

The old saying "Its not what you know, its who you know" still holds true. However, that being said its up to you to do the best you can to push yourself forward. Build your own reputation, volunteer for special projects and build your own reputation. I got my job based on who I know. But, when the company underwent a major restructure and the person who hired me lost her job (she was demoted and moved to a different area of the company) I was told that my own reputation was not good and they were trying to fast-track me out. I fought and told the new management that I was very good at my job and to ignore the relationship with the person who hired me. I asked for a transfer to a different project - and boy-howdey is it different! They moved me with the understanding (and I didn't know this at the time, but suspected it) that after I got thru one crisis period I would be let go -- because of my formerly 'bad' reputation.

 

Well, that was over a year ago and I'm moving up because I worked really hard. I volunteered for special projects, took on more work, stopped complaining, helped others (inlcuding training people who moved up much faster than I did) and gained a very good reputation. By working with a lot of other people word got around that I'm good, dependable, and likeable. The woman who hired me has moved on from the company and I am not likely to be canned, unless it is for company cutbacks - which I don't see happening anytime soon.

 

Network, put yourself out there, use some of your time to learn more and try some things outside of your comfort zone and build your reputation. Then you can move to another company with references from people who were not friends or family that hired you.

 

BTW - I am not working in a field that even remotely resembles my degree!

[AriaIncognito]

BTW - I am not working in a field that even remotely resembles my degree!

 

I wonder how many of us fall into this category. My degree is BA in Music Education. I'm now a self made "software quality assurance engineer". lol

 

I didn't know anyone to get where I am, honestly. I took a job as an admin in a company that was hiring just to get a job and then while there, I ended up being quizzical about software testing, and the guy I was working for, gave me a shot. That was 8 years ago and I've not looked back. All things considered, I've done quite well for myself.

 

Now I just have to worry about my job being 100% moved to India. As it stands right now, my dept is about 40-50% there....scary.

[Lights]

How long have you been in this career? If you have diverse skills, have you thought of contracting out some of your programming work? There are alot of smaller companies that can't afford to hire full time technical staff and prefer to hire by the job/contract. Plus you can get away with charging twice as much as your regular rate of pay. I do this on my own time, and I'm a lousy programmer! But there is always something YOU can do WAY better than someone else.

 

Well, I'm seriously considering quitting programming entirely, if I had any other trade skill that would pay what I'm receiving now (I work in a financial services firm, so I get paid well). I'm just no longer that sure that it's for me.

 

We are all under a puppeteer of some sort or another. Societal, money, familiar, spouse, offspring, etc...

Perhaps, but if puppeteers are the ONLY thing via which anyone may have value for one, it brings a lot of frustration and confidence issues.

 

Here are some transferable skills that programmers/coders/blah blah can transfer:

Theoretically yes, but that doesn't help if no one will even interview one in the new field.

 

After college, most of my job leads came from networking, for example: friends, alumni, friends of friends.

 

Please clarify on what stage of your career you are in?

I didn't have the luxuries of college friends nor of being on good terms with alumni. Networking is fine with me, but when that alone is everything and I myself am nothing, it's infuriating.

 

I've been in the working world for about 5 years. So if I change fields it'll mean entry level, or if I stay on, experienced.

 

The old saying "Its not what you know, its who you know" still holds true.

Perhaps, but I'm not comfortable with "what I know" being forever somehow worthless, never to get me anything in and of itself. It's the concept of having (or being chronically treated like such) no intrinsic value, and years of no real leads coming directly to me, is what's been causing me so much pain.

 

...Network, put yourself out there, use some of your time to learn more and try some things outside of your comfort zone and build your reputation. Then you can move to another company with references from people who were not friends or family that hired you.

 

BTW - I am not working in a field that even remotely resembles my degree!

 

I'm sorry to hear that there was such manipulativeness in the company you worked for. I do what I can at work, hopefully that makes my reputation good. But am I to depend on references and reputation alone?

 

How did you make the switch?

 

I wonder how many of us fall into this category. My degree is BA in Music Education. I'm now a self made "software quality assurance engineer". lol

 

I didn't know anyone to get where I am, honestly. I took a job as an admin in a company that was hiring just to get a job and then while there, I ended up being quizzical about software testing, and the guy I was working for, gave me a shot. That was 8 years ago and I've not looked back. All things considered, I've done quite well for myself.

Congratulations Ariawoman!

 

Now I just have to worry about my job being 100% moved to India. As it stands right now, my dept is about 40-50% there....scary.

 

That scares the proverbial crap out of me. Not India (in my company, it's China), but I do fear that I'll never truly be able to outpace global competition and the resultant wage pressures.

[AriaIncognito]

It's definitely tough, which is why I'm trying to sock away as much as I can now, in case I ever do need to switch gears entirely. I'm not sure that I'd ever be in the place where I'd never be able to find a position here in the US, as there's a lot of software still made here, but you never know. Some places are realizing that while it's cost effective up front to offshore work, they are spending more fixing the offshore mistakes than they would have to leave to work here. So, this could be cyclical...

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

I worked for the gov't in a large office and my job was good but alot of people were like robots and I could never do that.

 

I moved to a smaller private company and I absolutely love it. The pay was about the same, lateral move, but the opportunities were far greater and I took advantage of them and am far better off where I am now.

 

I don't know what it is like there though, are you hoping to make it in corporate america for some gigantic organization or do you want to be happy and have fun while you make money?

 

It doesn't hurt just to start looking around, check out some smaller companies with fewer employee where you can be sure you would be involved in some decision making, and where they would approach you for ideas and direction.

 

Again, you probably need contacts for this, so keep your eyes and ears open.

[AriaIncognito]

I just thought of this so I'll post it....one good way to gain contacts or network, is to stay in contact with people you knew from your current job who have left. That's actually how I got to the place I am at now, and how I'm hoping to get my next place, once I decide to leave where I am now. Having somebody on the inside who is able to submit your resume outweighs them just getting an application via monster or whereever.

 

Also, if your line of work has this, consulting companies could help if you wanted to maybe change companies. Often there are temp to perm positions, companies like to try you on first to make sure you're a good fit then hire you. Sure, that's a gamble, to leave a F/T job to go to a temp to perm, but if you really want a change, it's an option.

[Lights]

I don't know what it is like there though, are you hoping to make it in corporate america for some gigantic organization or do you want to be happy and have fun while you make money?

Definitely the latter. It can be in a large organization or a small one.

 

It doesn't hurt just to start looking around, check out some smaller companies with fewer employee where you can be sure you would be involved in some decision making, and where they would approach you for ideas and direction.

I actually do work at a smaller company. Not a startup, but it's growing.

 

I just thought of this so I'll post it....one good way to gain contacts or network, is to stay in contact with people you knew from your current job who have left. That's actually how I got to the place I am at now, and how I'm hoping to get my next place, once I decide to leave where I am now. Having somebody on the inside who is able to submit your resume outweighs them just getting an application via monster or whereever.

 

Yeah, that I've done to a point.

 

 

 

Basically, what's been irritating me about this is being chronically treated as having no inherent worth.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm tired of working on and on and yet forever being viewed as being de minimis save for the grace of another merciful puppeteer in a twisted connection-based system that reminds me of the compareggio in the movie "Godfather".

 

Most people don't even have that friendly helping hand, so leverage off of it, don't denigrate it. If you don't want to use it, go find yourself another job where no one can help you get it. Standard way to get a job with no help is to hand out a million CVs and keep torturing Human Resources Depts with follow-up emails and phone calls.

[Lights]

Most people don't even have that friendly helping hand, so leverage off of it, don't denigrate it.

 

Hi Trialbyfire,

 

I don't know how thoroughly you read what I wrote, but I'll be nice enough to give another recap:

 

I don't view having had a friendly helping hand as being a problem or something to denigrate; the fact that I've been forever forced into being powerless and viewed as worthless without one IS something I denigrate.

[Trialbyfire]

That's only your perception Lights. Use it as one more tool to get where you want to go. Don't be so concerned about what other people think of you. Power comes from within. Too many people are just too timid to take that personal power and move ahead of the pack. Yes, it means a lot of hard work. Shine. Don't be part of the herd. You're either a predator or prey.

[Lights]

That's only your perception Lights. Use it as one more tool to get where you want to go.

I have done so (otherwise I'd have refused the job in the first place long ago), but I don't plan on being limited to being a mere dynast or someone's-buddy's-buddy-brought-along-as-a-tag-along. That's the main issue with me; not that I don't put the situation and helping hand to use, but that the rest of the tools appear to be broken regardless of education or time put in.

 

Don't be so concerned about what other people think of you.

Not even when the other people in question include potential employers, and when what they think determines whether or not my resumes even get looked at?

 

Power comes from within. Too many people are just too timid to take that personal power...

What does this mean?

[Trialbyfire]

I have done so (otherwise I'd have refused the job in the first place long ago), but I don't plan on being limited to being a mere dynast or someone's-buddy's-buddy-brought-along-as-a-tag-along. That's the main issue with me; not that I don't put the situation and helping hand to use, but that the rest of the tools appear to be broken regardless of education or time put in.

Oh come on. You are perceived as you portray yourself.

Not even when the other people in question include potential employers, and when what they think determines whether or not my resumes even get looked at?

Unless your family were mass murderers, no one will refuse to look at your CV unless the skill sets are not there. Better yet, leverage off your family name and ensure that your contacts are well aware of them.

What does this mean?

This means that you are as you portray yourself. If you have something to say, say it. Never be afraid to speak up if the issue is important enough and you have something worthwhile to say. Also, if it's of significance to you, never let someone else negate your perspective.

[Lights]

Oh come on. You are perceived as you portray yourself.

Ok. Not sure what this means when it comes to dealing with resumes or the like, though.

 

...no one will refuse to look at your CV unless the skill sets are not there.

Things would have been so much easier if this had been true in my life. I've spent way too many years on end experiencing exactly the opposite even when the skills clearly were there.

 

This means that you are as you portray yourself. If you have something to say, say it. Never be afraid to speak up if the issue is important enough and you have something worthwhile to say. Also, if it's of significance to you, never let someone else negate your perspective.

 

Well, this isn't really an issue here, but I'll keep it in mind.

[burning 4 revenge]

I have no good advice, but I love your selection of metaphors

[Trialbyfire]

Ok. Not sure what this means when it comes to dealing with resumes or the like, though.

 

Things would have been so much easier if this had been true in my life. I've spent way too many years on end experiencing exactly the opposite even when the skills clearly were there.

 

Well, this isn't really an issue here, but I'll keep it in mind.

I broke into my industry with connections. After that, I busted arse to gain a reputation as a perfectionist, while continuing to network like mad and leverage off connections.

 

I'm telling you it's possible. Now stop feeling sorry for yourself and start empowering yourself. You're already one step ahead of the average person who has to walk the beat to even get a shoe in.

[Lights]

I have no good advice, but I love your selection of metaphors

Thanks.

 

I'm telling you it's possible. Now stop feeling sorry for yourself and start empowering yourself.

 

If I knew what it was that would truly empower me directly (especially across industries, what with all the job-guru talk of transferable skills) and transcend dependence on the connection and buddy-network thing, versus merely shifting the set of people on whom it will depend, I'd have done so already.

 

I don't like being forced to be a connection-dependent beggar any more than anyone here likes to hear me whine.

 

You're already one step ahead of the average person who has to walk the beat to even get a shoe in.

 

Old news. Thanks though.

 

 

 

Thanks for all y'all's time.

[Trialbyfire]

If I knew what it was that would truly empower me directly (especially across industries, what with all the job-guru talk of transferable skills) and transcend dependence on the connection and buddy-network thing, versus merely shifting the set of people on whom it will depend, I'd have done so already.

 

I don't like being forced to be a connection-dependent beggar any more than anyone here likes to hear me whine.

Btw, what's wrong with remaining in the same industry but moving upwards? Also, if your family name bears weight, is there no way to start your own business? If you have the skillset, the family name and the money to back you, you have no limitations beyond what you place on yourself.

 

It has nothing to do with being a beggar. Consider it a mutual dependency. You help each other when you are of a position to do so. People help you not only because they like you, they also help you because they see potential in you to help them.

[mental_traveller]

Why not learn from your experience? If contacts are what got you your successes so far, then doesn't that suggest you should focus a lot more effort on networking, getting to know the industry and the people who matter in it?

[riobikini]

re:

 

Lights: " I'm just no longer that sure that it's for me."

 

And that's when you open your own business.

 

Specialize in some aspect of the business you already know -pick an area you're a wizard in (or want to be).

 

I agree with the other poster who suggested that you look for contract work with other sources needing your skill and knowledge.

 

Keep the job you have now -let it keep paying the bills and allow time to feed your effort in discovering those obscure little contract jobs on the side.

 

Here's one of the top reasons why: it'll boost your self-esteem and cause you to look at your regular job through new eyes while you scan it like a scavenger for info and the plan/outline/structure you need to build your side business.

 

It'll create new appreciation for what you're doing now -and very likely, give you more reason to skip on off to work in the mornings.

 

An added plus -while you're working for your present company and looking more closely at everything from the way they operate in general, and zeroing right down to how they conduct their day-to-day business relationships- is the bonus of appearing more involved with the company (you certainly will be) and the sense that you're paying extra attention ( again, you will be.)

 

And that should help at at your present job, and get you noticed (just make sure it benefits you in the way you want it to.)

 

And -yep- you'll be working double the time, maybe more- but you'll be refreshed with the thought that you're doing something for you -that's yours- and that'll keep you going.

 

Be careful that you don't shirk your present job that's carrying the load of making all your payments and feeding you.

 

If you do, you could wind up jobless and looking for work all over again.

 

Be disciplined in how you prioritize -and keep up everything from your nutrition to your present job requirements.

 

And don't expect to set the world on fire tomorrow morning in your side business -it'll take lots of necessary time.

 

Stick with it unless you *know* you need to change gears/direction.

 

And try not to "crow" too much at your regular job about what you're trying to build for yourself aside from the "company store" -they might not look too kindly on your efforts that do not include them.

 

Learn to recognize valuable contacts and resources you've already made or know about from your regular job -they normally come in handy for something, sooner or later, so keep your eyes peeled and your ears tuned in.

 

In closing, whenever someone is bored in their job, feeling as if they are somehow looked upon as being of lesser value, the fervor and excitement over a career you've spent years of educational investment in , can appear to be a dead-end road, and as about attractive as a sack of slowly rotting potatoes.

 

Rejuvenating the career and the excitement over it might take more than a small corporation is willing to give you.

 

You have to do it yourself.

 

If you already have the "bones" of a career you like (and liking it, in the first place, is key) -you have the tools, skills, and means to build with if you just apply them with a new perspective and do it on your own chosen turf and time, headed in a new direction.

 

Take a closer look at what you know, the skills you have, and look for people who *need* them and can show appreciation through a paycheck.

 

You won't be the first to learn this -nor will you be the first to experience the excitement, the fear, the failures and the successes of "doing it your way".

 

Just a little friendly advice from someone who's "been there/done that" and made it work, despite trudging through all manner of hell.

 

(Smile)

 

Good luck -I wish you all the best!

 

-Rio

[Lights]

Btw, what's wrong with remaining in the same industry but moving upwards? Also, if your family name bears weight, is there no way to start your own business? If you have the skillset, the family name and the money to back you, you have no limitations beyond what you place on yourself.

 

It has nothing to do with being a beggar. Consider it a mutual dependency. You help each other when you are of a position to do so. People help you not only because they like you, they also help you because they see potential in you to help them.

 

Well, my main issue with remaining in the industry is that I'm starting to get pretty tired of coding, and I suspect that I'll never truly be able to get ahead and stay ahead of the industry, no matter how hard I worked (and these days I'm no longer willing to work extremely hard, since I've seen what work-life imbalances can do). The financial side I've always found pretty dry. I could stay in this a year or two more, I suppose, or for however long I remain addicted to my current job's money.

 

I suppose. I haven't experienced it at all from the point of anything but someone forced into playing a beggar, though. Maybe it is different.

 

Why not learn from your experience? If contacts are what got you your successes so far, then doesn't that suggest you should focus a lot more effort on networking, getting to know the industry and the people who matter in it?

 

Because that would merely shift the dependency, not eradicate it. And may whatever anyone believe in assist me if I actually sought to make a shift outside the industry. As I mentioned before, I'm tired of forever playing by the rules and doing all the "right" things, only to continue being viewed as having no inherent worth.

 

Keep the job you have now -let it keep paying the bills and allow time to feed your effort in discovering those obscure little contract jobs on the side.

 

Here's one of the top reasons why: it'll boost your self-esteem and cause you to look at your regular job through new eyes while you scan it like a scavenger for info and the plan/outline/structure you need to build your side business.

 

It'll create new appreciation for what you're doing now -and very likely, give you more reason to skip on off to work in the mornings.

...

Rejuvenating the career and the excitement over it might take more than a small corporation is willing to give you.

 

You have to do it yourself.

 

If you already have the "bones" of a career you like (and liking it, in the first place, is key) -you have the tools, skills, and means to build with if you just apply them with a new perspective and do it on your own chosen turf and time, headed in a new direction.

...

You won't be the first to learn this -nor will you be the first to experience the excitement, the fear, the failures and the successes of "doing it your way".

 

Just a little friendly advice from someone who's "been there/done that" and made it work, despite trudging through all manner of hell.

 

(Smile)

 

Good luck -I wish you all the best!

 

-Rio

 

Thanks!

May I ask what sort of business you did?

[riobikini]

Normally, I don't respond in specific to that question -but medically-related.

 

-Rio