Truly Disappointed

[greengoddess]

Lyssa,

If I may suggest, leave the green one alone. She is not interested in any discussion. She's saying things that don't even correlate to our Rs. She just wants to be nasty for the sake of being nasty. I'd just let her troll along until she gets tired and goes on her way.

 

oh cliche even your user name says it all. How am I being nasty? What was said that was nasty? To tell the wife, to tell your friends to not believe the mm, thaat your heart will be broken that mm lie? What was nasty.

 

For all you know about me I could be an ow who was thrown away on d day and don't want another woman to go through that pain. You just see black and white. If someone doesn't approve they must be bitter but yet your relationship is secret. Guess everybody is a bitter betrayed spouse.

[Ladyjane14]

Funny to me that the slogan "you don't own a person" carries such weight here yet you claim to own an open forum! It's that double standard that people have trouble accepting.

 

Honestly IWWH... I think you're on to something there. This entire board is so often filled with such a demented hypocrisy, a defiance of logic... that it just sets people off. It's as if someone was trying to tell you the sky is orange when you KNOW it's blue. It's just soooooo hard not to say so!

 

The irrational belief that one shouldn't "judge" all the while the person who decries it has sat as 'judge, jury, and executioner' on somebody who half-the-time isn't even aware that she was on trial. The argument that monogamy is an unnatural state of being, all the while expecting monogamy should the MM leave his marriage. To say one is against the idea of morality, and then go on to claim that they aren't "immoral" people. Huh?

 

You're banging your head on the wall, dear. You can't make sense out of nonsense. Although, I really do understand why you continue to try.

[East of Jupiter]

His wife told me so. The point isn't about whether she knows about me and him, it's about his W not TRYING to make it work for the better.

 

Maybe I do miss something crucial here.

 

Does the survival of the marriage and the continuation of the affair hinge on whether or not the BS works on THEIR marriage? Also, if MM is continuing to have his affair with you, how is HE working on the issues WITHIN the marriage?

 

And can a marriage really heal or a spouse work on a marriage when the other party is going elsewhere to work on it?

[tinktronik]

Honestly IWWH... I think you're on to something there. This entire board is so often filled with such a demented hypocrisy, a defiance of logic... that it just sets people off. It's as if someone was trying to tell you the sky is orange when you KNOW it's blue. It's just soooooo hard not to say so!

 

The irrational belief that one shouldn't "judge" all the while the person who decries it has sat as 'judge, jury, and executioner' on somebody who half-the-time isn't even aware that she was on trial. The argument that monogamy is an unnatural state of being, all the while expecting monogamy should the MM leave his marriage. To say one is against the idea of morality, and then go on to claim that they aren't "immoral" people. Huh?

 

You're banging your head on the wall, dear. You can't make sense out of nonsense. Although, I really do understand why you continue to try.

I agree with this whole heartedly LJ. I must say it is easy to bend the "morality Code" and decide you are "a moral person" because some of the things you abide by are in common with the base morality of your peers. I just don't understand the problem with saying I am Immoral .

I would say as compared to my own peers I an an immoral person. Not by the OW standard thats being written of here, but as not all of my own choices fit to the morality standard most often believed to be the common one.

[NoIDidn't]

Honestly IWWH... I think you're on to something there. This entire board is so often filled with such a demented hypocrisy, a defiance of logic... that it just sets people off. It's as if someone was trying to tell you the sky is orange when you KNOW it's blue. It's just soooooo hard not to say so!

 

The irrational belief that one shouldn't "judge" all the while the person who decries it has sat as 'judge, jury, and executioner' on somebody who half-the-time isn't even aware that she was on trial. The argument that monogamy is an unnatural state of being, all the while expecting monogamy should the MM leave his marriage. To say one is against the idea of morality, and then go on to claim that they aren't "immoral" people. Huh?

 

You're banging your head on the wall, dear. You can't make sense out of nonsense. Although, I really do understand why you continue to try.

 

Excellent post!!! ITA. I was trying to stay out of this one (thread), so this is all that I will say.

 

Outstanding!!!

[Ladyjane14]

... it is easy to bend the "morality Code" and decide you are "a moral person" because some of the things you abide by are in common with the base morality of your peers.

 

True. Morality is in the eye of the beholder afterall. We each get to decide for ourselves what it means.

 

Maybe it's not until you're twisting your own brand like a pretzel in order to serve selfish purposes that you're truly "immoral". (????)

That's a sin against one's own self I would think.

 

 

(Thx NID. )

[Cliche]

Why isn't it also immoral to treat a spouse poorly by ignoring him/her, holding resentment towards him/her or behaving selfishly...all reasons many WS' begin affairs? I think that is extremely immoral.

 

In the case of an A, the majority of the time, it takes 3 to tango.

 

 

 

So, what do you BS' benefit, anyway, from coming in here and throwing around your labels of immoral or wrong? Is this healing for all of you? Just wondering.....

[East of Jupiter]

Why isn't it also immoral to treat a spouse poorly by ignoring him/her, holding resentment towards him/her or behaving selfishly...all reasons many WS' begin affairs? I think that is extremely immoral.

 

Hmmm... all marriages are challenging. We all fall short at some time or another of others' expectations. I would love to meet the person who doesn't act selfishly at some point in any relationship.

 

Arguing human shortcomings as immorality in a marriage is ... setting yourself and any future partner up for failure. It reduces everyone to a very low standard.

 

In the case of an A, the majority of the time, it takes 3 to tango.

 

Only after the spouse finds out. Then yes, prepare to tango.

[East of Jupiter]

Honestly IWWH... I think you're on to something there. This entire board is so often filled with such a demented hypocrisy, a defiance of logic... that it just sets people off. It's as if someone was trying to tell you the sky is orange when you KNOW it's blue. It's just soooooo hard not to say so!

 

The irrational belief that one shouldn't "judge" all the while the person who decries it has sat as 'judge, jury, and executioner' on somebody who half-the-time isn't even aware that she was on trial. The argument that monogamy is an unnatural state of being, all the while expecting monogamy should the MM leave his marriage. To say one is against the idea of morality, and then go on to claim that they aren't "immoral" people. Huh?

 

You're banging your head on the wall, dear. You can't make sense out of nonsense. Although, I really do understand why you continue to try.

 

Sittin' back, stroking chin and wondering who would ever chance losing this woman?

 

You are just as you said LJ, a force to be reckoned with!

 

Lies are hard to spot, easy to swallow.

 

The truth is easy to spot, hard to swallow.

[whichwayisup]

Why isn't it also immoral to treat a spouse poorly by ignoring him/her, holding resentment towards him/her or behaving selfishly...all reasons many WS' begin affairs? I think that is extremely immoral.

 

It's immoral that the cheater chose to cheat instead of talking or confronting their spouse.

 

In the case of an A, the majority of the time, it takes 3 to tango

Sorry Cliche, I gotta disagree with that one. What about the BS's who have good marriages and the cheater just decides he/she wants to cheat cuz he can. It takes two to tango, not three...

[Cliche]

Sorry Cliche, I gotta disagree with that one. What about the BS's who have good marriages and the cheater just decides he/she wants to cheat cuz he can. It takes two to tango, not three...

WWIU, yes, I think I did mention on an earlier post that there are some bs' just completely taken by surprise. I know it happens, I'm just not sure it's the majority. I dunno, it could be.

 

Most personal situations I know, the A happens when the marriage is virtually over. Yes, sometimes when the A comes to the forefront, the spouses agree to work on it. Sometimes the M ends with the MS going to the OP, sometimes not. But usually there is a deeper issue in the marriage, and lots of times multiple issues. Sometimes the wounds in the marriage are too deep. I only know one situation where the A (actually As) were the only cause for the end of an M, and that was a guy who was like OOD's H.

 

But I appreciate your very respectful disagreement. TU.

[East of Jupiter]

A friend of mine didn't spend as much time with his wife during their 3 yr marriage due to work, sports etc. Spent time with kids a lot but when things go wrong between them or when he's just a little off from the surroundings, he spent time on work, sports, friends. However, he got involved with OW and he divorced his wife, got married to OW - treated her like a queen. They've been happily married for 5 yrs now. Have 3 beautiful kids and he spends time with them. Some people do change.

 

That's the thing, some people see it from both point of views and some just don't. At least, I try.. may not see it sometimes but at least, I try to see it from BS's point of view... every day. Maybe I shouldn't but that's just me. Really, all I want is to vent out and I do appreciate whatever advices that come my way but sometimes, people just want to vent. They don't need others to rub it in their faces on how bad their decisions are/were...

 

I better stop before I start saying things I'm going to regret. Thanks again.

 

Gosh I know some R born out of affairs do work! I know a few personally but they don't sound as happy as your example. It made me wonder if it makes a difference whether one is young and able to start fresh with another person, especially if they go on to have children and have no children from the original marriage. My first thoughts is that this must be a more ideal situation.

 

Most of the ones I know of are established marriages with children. And while the marriage of the MM/OW is a happy one, they are dealing with step children acting out and ex-spouse anger ... you know things that happen even if the marriage did not end as a result of an affair. But add an affair and things get more complicated and harder for kids, BS and familly (on all sides) to understand.

 

I do not wish any harm to any family, even those that start out as a result of affairs.

 

I hope someone is treat YOU like a queen Lyssa. That is what we all deserve. You, me, his wife, my OW.

[herenow]

Why is it that BW are supposed to blame the MM for the cheating, but it's OK for the OW to blame the W? Just wondering. BTW, I do blame the MM. I believe that the affairs are all about the MM and really have nothing to do with the W or the OW.

 

MM are just as capable of being honest about their relationship with their wives as BW are expected to be. They are just as responsible for the health of a marriage as the wife is. If the MM makes the choice to step outside the marriage for his own personal satisfaction, that is in no way the fault of the wife.

 

When some of the OW say that we BW hold ourselves in higher regard that the OW, the fact is, you (the OW) are expecting us to live with a higher standard than you or the MM. We are expected to keep our H's happy and when they decide that they want a little on the side, we are expected to let him go for the sake of his happiness. Sounds like you expect more from the BW that you do from yourself or the MM. So, if we are morally above you, it's only because you put us there. JMO

[East of Jupiter]

 

When some of the OW say that we BW hold ourselves in higher regard that the OW, the fact is, you (the OW) are expecting us to live with a higher standard than you or the MM. We are expected to keep our H's happy and when they decide that they want a little on the side, we are expected to let him go for the sake of his happiness. Sounds like you expect more from the BW that you do from yourself or the MM. So, if we are morally above you, it's only because you put us there. JMO

 

Yes, you put words to something I too have mulled over. It does sound to me that BS are held to a higher standard by some OW/MM.

[herenow]

Yes, you put words to something I too have mulled over. It does sound to me that BS are held to a higher standard by some OW/MM.

 

...and then complain when we agree with them. I don't mind being held to a higher standard. I take pride in it.

 

I'm an adult and I take responsibility for what happens in my life. All I expect from others is for them to do the same.

[luvmy2ns]

Most personal situations I know, the A happens when the marriage is virtually over.

 

If the marriage is over, then why hasn't it ended? I think that's a logical question which none of the OW can answer. Oh, yeah. The kids. That's it. The kids. I'm sure they'd be very happy to find out that daddy is f'ing someone besides their mother.

 

If your MM was a real man, he'd put a stop to all the BS by getting a divorce and making a life with his beloved OW.

[herenow]

If the marriage is over, then why hasn't it ended? I think that's a logical question which none of the OW can answer. Oh, yeah. The kids. That's it. The kids. I'm sure they'd be very happy to find out that daddy is f'ing someone besides their mother.

 

If your MM was a real man, he'd put a stop to all the BS by getting a divorce and making a life with his beloved OW.

 

...and letting his wife move on with her life and find a man who truly loves her as well.

[annabelle75]

I like how a thread started to say that there are too many attacking judgemental posts in the OW/OM forum, turns into a judgemental attacking thread about OM/OWs. I surrender.

[GreenEyedLady]

So, if we are morally above you, it's only because you put us there. JMO

 

Herenow, I'm not pointing this at you individually/personally, just in general to your statement...(So don't personalize it...)

 

Back to the morality argument...

 

I don't think anyone puts the W to a higher moral standard-morals have nothing to do with it...

 

Many BS's put themselves on a pedestal-I would never do that to another woman, don't we have a code etc...The OW finds that assertion laughable because to us (me I guess I shouldn't generalize), it isn't a question of morality at all...

 

And further, I don't see why anyone would aspire to be so moral above anything else in life, it's good to do the right thing, but isn't the right thing dependent on circumstances? And if you're so sure you're right, why push your views on others? Shouldn't them just seeing you live your life morally be enough of a witness?

 

I guess I am just tired of the morality argument in general...And someone can tell me I'm immoral until they're blue in the face, but at this point, I just don't care...

[fisherfool]

Why is it that BW are supposed to blame the MM for the cheating, but it's OK for the OW to blame the W? Just wondering. BTW, I do blame the MM. I believe that the affairs are all about the MM and really have nothing to do with the W or the OW.

 

MM are just as capable of being honest about their relationship with their wives as BW are expected to be. They are just as responsible for the health of a marriage as the wife is. If the MM makes the choice to step outside the marriage for his own personal satisfaction, that is in no way the fault of the wife.

 

 

As you say, both people in a marriage are responsible for the health of the marriage, and most of the time if the marriage faulters it is the fault of both. That doesn't make either person bad or good. If one of the partners cheats when the marriage is faultering, it is their fault that they are cheating, because they made the choice to do so. It doesn't matter if they "fell in love", "slipped up" or anything else. The actions are theirs and so is the responsibility. No one no OW or OM makes the wayward spouse cheat. They enable the cheating but they do not cause it.

 

The person cheating is not usually an evil person, only a confused person. The person who is cheating may be at a crossroads in their life, they may not be able to face their problems, they may be many things, but what they usually aren't is unremitting liars. I'm not saying that they aren't lying and lying a lot, but they are lying to themselves just as much as they are lying to both their spouse and their lover. Most of these poor confused people are trying to get some happiness out of life and at the time that need for happiness takes the form of a fantasy that supercedes everything.

 

That doesn't mean that once reality strikes them in the face that they won't realize that what they've doing has been the opposite of what they need to do to find happiness. Whether the wayward spouse leaves or reconnects with his wife when the affair is found out, usually the finding out of the affair is a catalyst for change. Most of the time those wayward spouses don't feel that they are really lying to either of their partners. At the moment they tell their spouse they love them that's what they are feeling. At the moment they are telling their lover they love them that's what the feel. What they feel the most most of the time is confusion.

[Cliche]

If the marriage is over, then why hasn't it ended? I think that's a logical question which none of the OW can answer. Oh, yeah. The kids. That's it. The kids. I'm sure they'd be very happy to find out that daddy is f'ing someone besides their mother.

 

If your MM was a real man, he'd put a stop to all the BS by getting a divorce and making a life with his beloved OW.

Are you asking me specifically or just asking in general?

 

If it's the former, he is. I just spent the last 3 days helping him start to move his stuff. Again, I say, instead of just assuming facts, you should read the posts of us OW on here so you can at least pretend to be giving "honest advice."

[Cliche]

As you say, both people in a marriage are responsible for the health of the marriage, and most of the time if the marriage faulters it is the fault of both. That doesn't make either person bad or good. If one of the partners cheats when the marriage is faultering, it is their fault that they are cheating, because they made the choice to do so. It doesn't matter if they "fell in love", "slipped up" or anything else. The actions are theirs and so is the responsibility. No one no OW or OM makes the wayward spouse cheat. They enable the cheating but they do not cause it.

 

The person cheating is not usually an evil person, only a confused person. The person who is cheating may be at a crossroads in their life, they may not be able to face their problems, they may be many things, but what they usually aren't is unremitting liars. I'm not saying that they aren't lying and lying a lot, but they are lying to themselves just as much as they are lying to both their spouse and their lover. Most of these poor confused people are trying to get some happiness out of life and at the time that need for happiness takes the form of a fantasy that supercedes everything.

 

That doesn't mean that once reality strikes them in the face that they won't realize that what they've doing has been the opposite of what they need to do to find happiness. Whether the wayward spouse leaves or reconnects with his wife when the affair is found out, usually the finding out of the affair is a catalyst for change. Most of the time those wayward spouses don't feel that they are really lying to either of their partners. At the moment they tell their spouse they love them that's what they are feeling. At the moment they are telling their lover they love them that's what the feel. What they feel the most most of the time is confusion.

Well said, Fisherfool. I think this is the case many times.

[scaredinlove]

Why not just stick to helping those who need advice, instead of many people starting threads like these? All it does is piss people off, make them react and say things which pisses others off and then more reaction.

 

TC you're right, and everyone at times gets sucked in, myself included. Maybe it's time to stop starting these threads, both in this forum and the infidelity forum and give advice to those who need it and accept that everyone has different points of view. Some good, some not so good, some fair, some harsh. Just like real life.

 

All comes down to respect and for the past xx amount of months, respect doesn't seem like it exists. Online and offline IRL in general.

 

 

WWU

 

I think we should start as many forums like this as possible until people understood that this is a SUPPORT GROUP, and i am sure that both the OW and the BS can learn from each other.

 

I had BS here who were very supportive and I helped some.Latelly there is to much anger here that is one reason I haven't come in here much.

 

So yes I think this is a valid thread/

[silktricks]

I really enjoy - well maybe ENJOY isn't the right word - but value, the interaction between BS and OW. I'm glad that LS exists and that it takes the form it does to allow the interaction.

 

Both BS and OW, in my opinion, often get out of bounds, and likewise I think often get our "panties in a twist" as someone once said here. But the value, I believe outweighs the occasional rift.

 

just my opinion.

[bish]

As a matter of fact, my mother knows about it. So does my best friend and a few others.

 

The thing is, some people can accept the fact that As do happen... where else, some just can't accept it.

 

ya...and I can accept the fact that murders happen too....so whats your point?