Questions About Children and Etiquette

[businessblonde]

Hi everyone,

 

I am the live-in girlfriend of a man with 4 school age children. The kids and I get along great. They visit biweekly; on weekends. The kids are good, but there's a couple of issues I'd like advice about.

 

1. Two of the kids, 5 (girl) and 7 (boy), constantly ask adults for money or gifts. We had a couple of adult guests one evening. The kids would not stop asking for a dollar, or to be driven to the store to buy a video game. My boyfriend, the father, repeatedly asked them to stop. The kids do not stop. When they ask me, I politely say that they need to ask mom or dad if they can have it first. They come back with, "well, you are like our mom, so give us money." Any advice?

 

2. The boy, 7, has been saying inappropriate/curse words for body parts (ass, butthole, etc) for two months now despite repeatedly attempts to have him stop. He does it in public, and at the dinner table.

 

He and the girl, 5, talk about sex a lot. They ask me if I make out with their dad, if I'm having children, why aren't I pregnant, etc. I understand much of it is child curiosity, but the fact that it continues after I've replied - like at the next visit - is unnerving. The dad threatens a spanking, and sometimes does, but nothing seems to work.

 

3. I have known the children for 6 months. Despite the time that has passed, they are not losing interest in me. In fact, their attempts to get my attention or play with me have become overwhelming. The 5, 7 and 9-year-old will sometimes even fist fight over who gets to play with me next. The punishment by dad is time-out or paddling. Again, nothing seems to stick. The behavior doesn't improve.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[nittygritty]

Did I understand this right? Does Dad only get every other weekend visitation time to spend with 4 kids? That isn't very much time, if thats correct.

 

I accidently posted before I finished.

 

 

To be continued...

[nittygritty]

If the visitation is only every other weekend, I think it would help curb the kids acting out if somehow Dad were to be able to spend more time with them.

 

How is the parenting relationship between your SO and his Ex?

 

Also, Paddling kids is not good IMO. Time out works sometimes. So does losing their favorite toy for the day or no TV, Video game or computer time for the evening. Dad talking to them and telling them the kind of behavior he expects may be effective sometimes as well.

 

It is rude for the kids to be asking adults for money and gifts. I would tell them they need to earn their own money and give them chores to do and an allowance.

 

The 7 and 5 year old may be getting the bad language and sex questions from TV or other kids. Assessing the situation and the possible reasons behind the behavior is important. It sounds to me like the 7 year old may be needing attention and also may be a little bit angry. Kids will take whatever attention they can get. If they have to act up to get it, they will.

 

It can't be easy making individual alone time for each of the 4 kids to spend with their Dad during a weekend. I think it would help the kids behavior if Dad got them involved in sports or other activities and was more involved in their lives, if thats possible.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

How long have they had to adjust to the parents divorce? Young children learn quite early that there is room for manipulation. They will test you and that's a good thing actually as you get to draw your lines.

 

I have had some issues with my son asking other people for things. (not money but for example seeing the pizza guy at the neighbors and asking if he could eat with them ) It drives me nuts. Our rule is, you may only ask your father or I for anything other than water out of a faucet. You may accept what is offered you but you may NEVER ask or even hint (that icecream sure looks good). We've handled this by waiting until he's asked and someone offers him and then saying you may not have it because you asked or hinted.

 

This language issue is fairly typical for boys this age. Potty words are hysterical, and bodily noises even funnier. Sometimes I have to walk away just not to laugh at the silliness myself! And that's how we handle this unless its disrespectful language directed toward someone. Little boys throw rocks in the lake to watch them splash. Any attention is attention. We all tend to walk away and ignore him when the silliness occurs and it has gotten much better. We had a similar issue with our dog jumping up, the vet says don't say a word and remove yourself, he was cured in two days.

 

Time out or restrictions work better than spanking for us but the biggest thing is not to let em see you upset. Its handled matter of factly. OOPS, sorry, upstairs. That gets old to them quickly.

 

Another thing that might work with the asking for things is surprising them when they don't ask. You know, you haven't broken the rule and asked for something and that makes me want to do something special for you. Sometime you have to enact a catch 22 on them. Now that know you can get something for not asking but they can't ask.

 

Here's an example we (finally) came up with. When our oldest was sitting our youngest we got call after call on the cell from one complaining against the other. We were paying her to keep him so we decided to pay him (a very small amount) to be kept. The rule became that whomever complained didn't get paid. Well, that ended that and they actually started to get along!

 

Good luck to you, these kids are just finding their way and need a little guidance.

[nittygritty]

How long have they had to adjust to the parents divorce? Young children learn quite early that there is room for manipulation. They will test you and that's a good thing actually as you get to draw your lines.

 

I have had some issues with my son asking other people for things. (not money but for example seeing the pizza guy at the neighbors and asking if he could eat with them ) It drives me nuts. Our rule is, you may only ask your father or I for anything other than water out of a faucet. You may accept what is offered you but you may NEVER ask or even hint (that icecream sure looks good). We've handled this by waiting until he's asked and someone offers him and then saying you may not have it because you asked or hinted.

 

This language issue is fairly typical for boys this age. Potty words are hysterical, and bodily noises even funnier. Sometimes I have to walk away just not to laugh at the silliness myself! And that's how we handle this unless its disrespectful language directed toward someone. Little boys throw rocks in the lake to watch them splash. Any attention is attention. We all tend to walk away and ignore him when the silliness occurs and it has gotten much better. We had a similar issue with our dog jumping up, the vet says don't say a word and remove yourself, he was cured in two days.

 

Time out or restrictions work better than spanking for us but the biggest thing is not to let em see you upset. Its handled matter of factly. OOPS, sorry, upstairs. That gets old to them quickly.

 

Another thing that might work with the asking for things is surprising them when they don't ask. You know, you haven't broken the rule and asked for something and that makes me want to do something special for you. Sometime you have to enact a catch 22 on them. Now that know you can get something for not asking but they can't ask.

 

Here's an example we (finally) came up with. When our oldest was sitting our youngest we got call after call on the cell from one complaining against the other. We were paying her to keep him so we decided to pay him (a very small amount) to be kept. The rule became that whomever complained didn't get paid. Well, that ended that and they actually started to get along!

 

Good luck to you, these kids are just finding their way and need a little guidance.

 

I totally agree about it being fairly typical behavior for boys of this age.

You do better than I do with being able to make it out of the room without laughing at the bodily noises.

 

I tried your sibling babysitting procedure after reading another of your parenting advice posts. It worked great! Thank You!

[businessblonde]

Hi,

 

The Dad and his ex get along fairly well. I get along very well with the ex, too. The only thing I do not like about her is that she's rushing my relationship with her kids. I've dated the Dad 6 months. I've seen the children in the last 4 months. When Mother's Day came she (ex) bought a card, had all the kids sign, and they made presents for me. The younger children refer to me as "Mommy Too" which is cute and endearing, but kind of scary when I'm still getting to know the Dad. Too much too soon.

 

She (ex) is marrying a man she's lived with for a year in Sept. The kids seem to like the new husband. The new husband doesn't interact with the kids much either.

 

I don't know why the kids visit Dad two weekends each month. He doesn't want them more often. He doesn't call them between visits or visit them. It's no wonder they are attention-starved when they arrive. His attitude is that when he was raised - one of 5 kids on cattle ranch - they weren't entertained or coddled by the parents. They had to play among themselves. He will sit with the kids to watch tv and take them to the playground, but that's it. No sports play. No card, board or video games. One day I persuaded him to join us for badmitton. He did it for 10 minutes then went inside to nap.

 

I don't understand how a man can father 4 children and not want to interact with them. What's the point in having children??

 

I plan things for the kids.....one night we made paper masks and had a play.... they want only me now. The second I come in the door from work they are clinging to me and fighting over who gets me first. The problem is that it's overwhelming. My boyfriend and I have talked about this issue again and again. I asked him to please - PLEASE - get involved and play with the kids so that I can have a break. He won't. His solution is that when I'm overwhelmed I should leave the house for a while to get "me time." Or, place myself in "time out."

 

I'm not hot about paddling either. It doesn't work. In this house, time out doesn't work well because the kids do not obey Dad. Dad won't take away favorite toys for some reason. Much of the time he uses threats "stop or you'll get a paddling" which never improves anything.

 

The "give me money and gifts" issue is very odd to me. I have been around children my whole life - nieces and nephews, my sister's kids - and never ever have I met children so aggressive. The boy, 7, has even walked up to me and said, "I looked in your wallet. You've got 40 dollars. So don't say you don't have money to give me." The Dad laughs, and tells him not to be snooping. But it's not a laughing matter. They do this to house guests!

 

I'll take your advice. I will also say next time, "It's rude to ask for money or gifts. Money is to be earned. Gifts are suprises that people give you.....not something you demand."

 

If I keep repeating that like a parrot or broken record they'll probably stop asking.

 

He and I have discussed teaching the kids to earn money through chores. He won't enforce it. His 16-year-old daughter that lives here, too, does nothing. She had a friend spend the night. When I came home from work food and dirty dishes cluttered the kitchen. Ants were swarming - true story. I asked her why she didn't rinse the dishes and simply run the dishwasher. She smirked and said, "Dad will do it when he gets home."

 

Rules aren't enforced either. He set a rule no drinks or food in the living room. That rule was broken about 20 times this past weekend with no consequences.

 

He gets mad if I point anything out. He has said "I'd rather not hear about it. I don't expect you to pick up or clean up after the kids."

 

I think you are right that the 7 year old boy is be needing attention and also may be a little bit angry.

 

Because I do play with each child, praise them whenever they do well (even with stopping themselves from saying "butthole" LOL) and give lots of hugs, they cling. Dad's refusal to spend an ounce of time interacting with them and the clinging of the kids is wearing my nerves.

 

Thank you for the advice!

[nittygritty]

Hi,

 

The Dad and his ex get along fairly well. I get along very well with the ex, too. The only thing I do not like about her is that she's rushing my relationship with her kids. I've dated the Dad 6 months. I've seen the children in the last 4 months. When Mother's Day came she (ex) bought a card, had all the kids sign, and they made presents for me. The younger children refer to me as "Mommy Too" which is cute and endearing, but kind of scary when I'm still getting to know the Dad. Too much too soon.

 

She (ex) is marrying a man she's lived with for a year in Sept. The kids seem to like the new husband. The new husband doesn't interact with the kids much either.

 

I don't know why the kids visit Dad two weekends each month. He doesn't want them more often. He doesn't call them between visits or visit them. It's no wonder they are attention-starved when they arrive. His attitude is that when he was raised - one of 5 kids on cattle ranch - they weren't entertained or coddled by the parents. They had to play among themselves. He will sit with the kids to watch tv and take them to the playground, but that's it. No sports play. No card, board or video games. One day I persuaded him to join us for badmitton. He did it for 10 minutes then went inside to nap.

 

I don't understand how a man can father 4 children and not want to interact with them. What's the point in having children??

 

I plan things for the kids.....one night we made paper masks and had a play.... they want only me now. The second I come in the door from work they are clinging to me and fighting over who gets me first. The problem is that it's overwhelming. My boyfriend and I have talked about this issue again and again. I asked him to please - PLEASE - get involved and play with the kids so that I can have a break. He won't. His solution is that when I'm overwhelmed I should leave the house for a while to get "me time." Or, place myself in "time out."

 

I'm not hot about paddling either. It doesn't work. In this house, time out doesn't work well because the kids do not obey Dad. Dad won't take away favorite toys for some reason. Much of the time he uses threats "stop or you'll get a paddling" which never improves anything.

 

The "give me money and gifts" issue is very odd to me. I have been around children my whole life - nieces and nephews, my sister's kids - and never ever have I met children so aggressive. The boy, 7, has even walked up to me and said, "I looked in your wallet. You've got 40 dollars. So don't say you don't have money to give me." The Dad laughs, and tells him not to be snooping. But it's not a laughing matter. They do this to house guests!

 

I'll take your advice. I will also say next time, "It's rude to ask for money or gifts. Money is to be earned. Gifts are suprises that people give you.....not something you demand."

 

If I keep repeating that like a parrot or broken record they'll probably stop asking.

 

He and I have discussed teaching the kids to earn money through chores. He won't enforce it. His 16-year-old daughter that lives here, too, does nothing. She had a friend spend the night. When I came home from work food and dirty dishes cluttered the kitchen. Ants were swarming - true story. I asked her why she didn't rinse the dishes and simply run the dishwasher. She smirked and said, "Dad will do it when he gets home."

 

Rules aren't enforced either. He set a rule no drinks or food in the living room. That rule was broken about 20 times this past weekend with no consequences.

 

He gets mad if I point anything out. He has said "I'd rather not hear about it. I don't expect you to pick up or clean up after the kids."

 

I think you are right that the 7 year old boy is be needing attention and also may be a little bit angry.

 

Because I do play with each child, praise them whenever they do well (even with stopping themselves from saying "butthole" LOL) and give lots of hugs, they cling. Dad's refusal to spend an ounce of time interacting with them and the clinging of the kids is wearing my nerves.

 

Thank you for the advice!

 

 

Hi Businessblonde,

 

Wow, this situation sounds like a nightmare! First of all, for future reference, in case you haven't already figured this out...

 

Don't move in together within the first 6 months .

 

That first 6 months is just the getting to know you phase, its usually the honeymoon stage of a relationship where both people are usually still on their best behavior. After 6 months have passed its usually relationship evaluation time, its sounds like that part may be on target for you.

 

So far, I've counted 5 kids that he has, the 16 year old lives with you two and you are being put in charge of entertaining his kids during his brief visitation, is that right?

 

Golly, I can't imagine why his ex is rushing you to be the extra mommy?

He is no help at all with the kids and when he does he's terrible at parenting. I hope your really paying attention to this red flag because these kids are going to have really serious behavior problems when they become teenagers.

 

I know you obviously in love with this man but love isn't going to conquer these kinds of problems. I think you need to save yourself from a very difficult and painful life, if you stay with this man.

 

I don't know if you have your own children but if you don't, I hope you know better than to have them with him. This man is selfish and treats his children poorly, it is only a matter of time before he's treating you poorly.

He is already taking advantage of you when his kids are visiting, by leaving you to tend to their needs and problems.

 

I recommend you get out of this relationship quickly. I'm serious, this is only going to get worse and the longer you stay living there the more attached the kids will become to you. The guilt of leaving may be too much for you to get out later.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree with nittygritty. Get out. You're only going to inherit the dysfunctional mess created by both parents. Why people litter when they can't effectively parent, who knows.

[Lynna]

Wow, you have a mess on your hands. It sounds like you are interacting pretty well with the kids, but unless their father is willing to set boundaries with specific consequences for breaking those boundaries then their behavior will NOT change. Why should it, if they only get punshied for every 100th violation and then the punishment is nothing upsetting to them, heck yeah they will keep on doing it.

 

You can set your own boundaries with them. You can let them know what kind of behavior you will tolerate. You can let them know that if they say certain things or act in certain ways that you will remove yourself from the situation. Since you are the one who gives them attention and who cares about them, that will make some difference to them. But ultimately he has to help you in this. He is allowing his chidlren to be selfish, entitled brats.

 

Do you want children? If so, you need to think seriously about your relationship with this man. If he is not willing to set boundaries with his children, and does not even want to interact with them - what does that say about him as a person?

[Lynna]

Our rule is, you may only ask your father or I for anything other than water out of a faucet. You may accept what is offered you but you may NEVER ask or even hint (that icecream sure looks good). We've handled this by waiting until he's asked and someone offers him and then saying you may not have it because you asked or hinted.

 

...the biggest thing is not to let em see you upset. Its handled matter of factly. OOPS, sorry, upstairs. That gets old to them quickly.

 

Another thing that might work with the asking for things is surprising them when they don't ask. You know, you haven't broken the rule and asked for something and that makes me want to do something special for you. Sometime you have to enact a catch 22 on them. Now that know you can get something for not asking but they can't ask.

 

 

GREAT advice!

[businessblonde]

Hi everyone,

 

Yes, he has a total of 5 kids. 5, 7, 9, 16 and 18. The 16-year-old came to live with us recently. The 18 lives in her own apartment. (She doesn't visit Dad unless she needs something).

 

I read your advice - thank you! I talked to him last night. What started out a calm discussion got ugly.

 

I said, "The first 6 months of a relationship is the getting to know you phase. I cannot believe that during this stage a parent would expect a boyfriend/girlfriend to embrace a "step parent" type role. Early-on this was communicated to the kids somehow. The little ones call me Mommy 2 (which is cute) and they expect it despite my repeated statements to you that I am not ready to be the extra mommy. Telling the children that I should be treated like a second mommy so early is taking advantage of me."

 

I then said, "When your children visit and need my constant attention, I feel guilty for refusing. I feel guilty because you send them to their rooms or outside to play when they are attention starved. I am sick of being

placed in the position of being overwhelmed by play requests and

feeling guilty."

 

We talked about the chore issue. The 16-year-old does nothing. She refuses to eat at the dinner table with us and hordes in her room. She may cook for herself, but then leaves a huge mess in the kitchen. He said, "I asked her to clean up. She had assigned days to load and run the dishwasher. What am I suppose to do when she won't do it?"

 

I said, "Then you take away her computer or cell phone."

 

He just looked like a deer in headlights and said, "ok." (Never gonna happen).

 

My biggest concern - you all hit on it - is his lack of interaction with the children. I do not have children with him. I won't ever. I asked him why he doesn't see or call his children during the two weeks he doesn't get visitation. He got mad at the question and asked "why should I? Cindy (ex) lets me know if they need anything."

 

He then said, "I know I should do better but I get anxious. Why do you keep bringing up these issues? I told you that I don't expect you to entertain or clean up after my kids."

 

I am a rather reserved and even-tempered person, but for the first time in years I raised my voice. There's no getting through to this man. He just will not involve himself in the lives of his children.

 

I said that we have two very different opinions on parenting and house rules, chores, etc. It's his house, so by all means he can run it as he wishes. When how he runs it affects my quality of life, however, it's a problem. I suggested that we live apart.

 

He did not say anything except that I should think very carefully if that's what I really want.

 

*sigh*

[Art_Critic]

He did not say anything except that I should think very carefully if that's what I really want.

 

I almost never give this track of advice.. but... I agree with the other posters that you need to get out of this mess..

 

This man is a huge mess waiting to pile up on you.. your shoulders may be big but no where near big enough to support the pile that he is getting ready to land on you.

 

If he was at least a half decent supporting parent and SO then I might give a difference opinion but because he doesn't support you at all and they are his kids not yours.. you are only the GF.. The GF...

 

He is sizing you up for the task of taking the role of raising his kids off his plate.. be very very careful..

His ex is moving you into the role of parent because he won't do it and you working with her would be easier for her..

 

Unless he does a COMPLETE 180 and starts being a supportive father and SO and future husband then bury this dude and make him part of your past..

 

Sorry for the harsh advice.. but I can clearly see the writing on this wall... and it seems to me that only anger, resentment, heartbreak and carnage are in your future with this situation as it stands now.

[Trialbyfire]

I think people have to be a little more realistic about who they're dating. In dating someone with children, you have to know that there will be issues and responsibilities associated to the children. You have to be prepared to either accept your role as a possible surrogate parent or realize you're not willing to do this. While this situation is extreme, whereby both parents are dysfunctional, hence the dysfunctional children, most situations aren't this bad.

[littlekitty]

I think people have to be a little more realistic about who they're dating. In dating someone with children, you have to know that there will be issues and responsibilities associated to the children. You have to be prepared to either accept your role as a possible surrogate parent or realize you're not willing to do this. While this situation is extreme, whereby both parents are dysfunctional, hence the dysfunctional children, most situations aren't this bad.

 

Great advice from everyone here. And above, although I'm not sure that the mother is dysfunctional? It seems the children are playing up to Dad.

 

The only thing I would add is that by moving so quickly, you did some what put yourself in the role of 'Mummy Too'.

 

By placing youself so firmly and more permanently in the life of your SO, and hence his children, you made yourself seem a permanent fixture. Therefore they, and his ex were ready to see you in the role of step parent. Rightly or wrongly so.

 

You can't really move in with someone who has children - albeit every other weekend - without being sure you want to commit yourself to them and their children, because they are a package deal. Living with their father makes you part of his package deal.

 

I don't see how you could expect to move in and not have to embrace that role?

 

That said, most of the issues you mentioned are clearly down to his parenting skills. Sadly it doesn't appear that he's going to start working on them any time soon. I'd agree that if you are aleady uncomfortable in this situation, your best bet is to get out now. Staying longer is only going cause more hurt on all sides - including the children.

[businessblonde]

Hi everyone,

 

Little Kitty from the UK is right. By moving into my SO's home, I nominated myself for an active role with his children. I've dated men with a couple of kids before. The experiences were always good, so I didn't think this would be a problem. I assumed that since a year of divorce was under the parents' belt, that things would not be so dysfunctional. I would not mind easing into a "Mommy Too" role if the parents interacted in a healthy way with the kids and there wasn't constant drama between the parents.

 

Things have gotten much worse. Due to the 16-year-old telling her mother that we don't keep food in the house (she's unhappy because we will not stock all of the many snacks she likes), the ex-wife is now calling constantly to talk about issues in this household. It's a daily drama.

 

Last night he and I were on date night. The ex-wife called about this nonsense. She called again about school supplies. He made the mistake of taking every call instead of asking if he could call her back after we were done with dinner (at a restaurant) and the cinema movie. Or, better yet, he could say that what happens in our household is not for her to manage or control, or be concerned with.

 

He and I got home from date night. I was furious. I said that I love him, and I adore his kids, but the dysfunction is too much. I am moving out.

 

He said that I am being unreasonable. I apologized, and said that in 6 months we've been unable to resolve a single issue. In fact, things have gotten worse, not better (the 16 yr old and ex-wife issues).

 

I am sad, but it's the best decision.

 

Thanks for your advice.