Long Distance -- Worrying for Nothing?

[FrequentFlyer]

This may not be your typical long-distance relationship. So sorry for the length.

 

We're currently living several states apart, I'm in the process of moving to her town -- to further our relationship (I have a career that allows me to work anywhere). She's newly divorced, and my divorce will be final by month end. We did not plan that! I've heard all the talk about how it's too soon, please spare that discussion for this thread. We've known each other for over 25 years, drifting apart after each of us got married, reconnecting again a year ago while we were both separated.

 

She will have to stay in her home state because of the kids. I am also in the same position. So this will be long-distance for awhile. We both decided that we'd date each other until the youngest child turns 18, in about 4+ years.

 

OK, maybe a little strange, but this is what we want to do, and are both OK with it.

 

Anyway, there is this married guy that she works with, whom she has become good friends with over the past few months. She's told me a lot about him, they seem to be really good friends. I mean practically best friends. And I'll confess, it bugs the heck out of me. I've told her my concerns more than once, she says she understands, but her behavior doesn't change. I know I cannot change her. Especially since she likes the friendship. The conversations about this guy sometimes would get animated. It is truly the only topic we'd argue about.

 

Before we go further: I do trust her. But they call each other's cell a lot (and it's not about work, it's 7 days/week). They text each other. Email. Go out socially. But it's not flirting or romantic at all, it all appears harmless. But still, it's a lot of contact. My "guy indicator" is up.

 

Now, before you start screaming "emotional affair" or "something's going on with this co-worker," you should know this...she's not the most feminine gal in town. She likes baseball, drinking beer, hanging out in bars, and can be a real tomboy. Hates shopping and would prefer to hang with the guys talking sports. Doesn't have a ton of girlfriends. Says her female co-workers are "too catty." She can swear worse than a lot of guys. Knows all the off-color jokes.

 

OK, maybe she's not YOUR cup of tea, but I'm telling you this because many guys seem to be attracted to her, like a kid sister. In fact, she told me one time this guy (the married co-worker) said to her, "you are so much like a guy that you should have a penis."

 

But -- today she said "Don't get mad...or get weird...but my plans for last night fell through" so, she said, "since he's always crashing our girl's night out, I decided to crash his guy's night out." And told him she'll meet him at this bar she hangs out at. But, she said, those plans never materialized.

 

Whoa! I had heard, months ago, this guy crashed ONE ladies night out, but never heard he's "always crashing our girl's nights out."

 

My heart sank when I heard this. But am I listening too closely? She's not a child, she is 46 (as am I). We both have agreed we want to build a long-term relationship slowly. I've asked her many times to tell me more about the "goings on" with this guy. She was reluctant at first -- because I would get steamed when his name came up. But I've explained to her why I want to know what's up, and lately she's been bringing his name up more and more. I don't know this guy. I don't know if his wife is aware of all the time he spends with his new female co-worker/friend. I'm not sure of his motives, and told her I'd like to meet him the next time I'm in town (which she said would be great).

 

But honestly, the more I hear this guy's name come up, the less comfortable I feel, and the more uneasy I become. Even though I'm being told it's all above board. Currently.

 

I don't think I'd tolerate this in any other relationship. But I have known her nearly my entire life, we dated years ago, share so many of the same friends and have such a connection...physically, it is fantastic being with her. She is the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes on. I have never felt such a connection with another person.

 

Everything else is just great. Part of me says to ignore it -- they are friends -- and this is a very unusual long-term, long-distance relationship we are trying to build. The other part of me says "you wouldn't tolerate this in any other relationship, why are you OK with it now? Just quietly pull up stakes and move on." (which would really crush me).

 

I just don't know how to handle this...I feel, in some ways, threatened.

 

Am I worrying for nothing? Do I overlook this, or consider moving on?

[Chinook]

My $0.02

 

If your gut feels threatened, then it probably is.

 

That's my experience anyhow.

 

I'd have at it with her. It is NOT okay, whether she's one of the guys or not. She's pissing you around in my opinion.

[FrequentFlyer]

That's why I figured I'd post this and see what responses I get.

 

It does seem a little indifferent of her to (apparently) not care about my feelings in all this. Don't know if that's me being selfish, don't really know what's right. Mixed up.

 

Hopefully I'll get more feedback. Thanks for a quick reply.

[Chinook]

Well, I have to be honest, what made me post is that in my last relationship, I ignored my instincts and it turned out, I was right all along. So I learned the hard way, I wouldn't want anyone else going through that because it makes you think you're losing your mind when you actually aren't.

[FrequentFlyer]

I do question whether I'm "over-thinking" the friendship with this other guy. I know that down the road that friendship could become something more. Anything is possible, right? And I can't control anyone (or any thing) but myself.

 

I have decided to put my moving plans on hold (I have not told her that) because of these uneasy feelings I have.

 

Look, I know there are no guarantees in life. But I'd hate like heck to uproot my life and move across the country for the "possibility" of a long-term relationship. I don't particularly care for the area of the country where she lives, the main thing is to be with her. And I am willing to move to be with her. So I want to know we're both 100% in, you know? And this guy's presence has made me wonder how solid this relationship may -- or may not -- be.

[Chinook]

I do question whether I'm "over-thinking" the friendship with this other guy. I know down the road that friendship could become something more. Anything is possible, right? And I can't control anyone (or any thing) but myself.

 

I just have put my moving plans on hold (I have not told her that) because of these uneasy feelings I have.

 

Look, I know there are no guarantees in life. But I'd hate like heck to uproot my life and move across the country for the "possibility" of a long-term relationship. I want to know we're both 100% in. And this guy's presence has made me wonder how solid this relationship may -- or may not -- be.

You know, with that kind of commitment - it would make me wonder too.

 

But let me tell you what my experience is and what I have seen here at Loveshack again and again. You are the one who gets embroiled in the relationship and gets carried away with planning and moving and whatnot. She (or he dependent on the story) doesn't and hangs back. Sooner or later comes the 'I need a break' line or the 'this isn't working how I thought it might' and after that comes an abrupt dumping (which is what happened in my case) and complete severe no contact afterwards. It hurt me very badly that the person I had grown to love and trust simply cut me out of his life and he moved on. He moved on because he had other fish to fry, other women (or woman as it turned out) to screw and I no longer served any purpose in his life.

 

I had my moments of insecurity - just like you do now. My relationship was long distance, just like yours is - so I know... there's not a damn thing you can do about it. The worst thing is though, you can ask for all you're worth 'what's wrong' and they'll say 'nothing' or 'I'm tired' or 'I'm just busy' and they avoid you like the plague - until you push it to the point of no return and THEY tell you THEY can't take it any more because YOU'RE too NEEDY when in fact all along, they're screwing someone else.

 

I'm not saying this is happening to you. I'm just saying watch your back because if your instincts are singing, fckin listen to them.

[FrequentFlyer]

Wow. Sorry to hear about your experience.

 

Guess I am in the right place. Because, it is true to a certain extent I have become wrapped up in "all that." And I will watch my back, thanks.

[Replicant]

 

Look, I know there are no guarantees in life. But I'd hate like heck to uproot my life and move across the country for the "possibility" of a long-term relationship. I don't particularly care for the area of the country where she lives, the main thing is to be with her. And I am willing to move to be with her. So I want to know we're both 100% in, you know? And this guy's presence has made me wonder how solid this relationship may -- or may not -- be.

 

Uprooting ones life is a huge thing even if one is but a few states away from the other person. Things that may have been great between you when there was a time with no other guy in the picture, but as you've surely read from others when someone else enters the picture shady stuff goes on and it does have an impact. Like the there and now vs the few states away. That's why there's this huge gray area or void in these LDR's as to what goes on when one is apart. If you cannot be honest and 100% committed to making it work with the other person. Any small crack is a reason for concern. I would never take such a huge gamble.

[milane]

i think the only thing i would be concerned about is the fact that the conversation about this guy gets animated. does she seem giddy or does her tone of voice seem happy when she talks about this married guy?

 

i am in a long distance "relationship" right now as well. i put relationship in quotation marks because the man i am dating isn't really my boyfriend, not because we aren't sure of each other but right now there are many obstacles other than the distance factor.

 

the guy i am dating also gets insecure about my guy friends because i am also more of a tomboy therefore i have more male friends than female ones. i assure him nothing is going on and i feel the only way i can do so is by telling him everything that happens when i do talk to my guy friends or hang out with them. if there was something romantic going on between a male friend of mine, i think would feel reluctant to talk about it to the guy i'm in the long distance relationship with. so the fact that she is telling you about all the times she hangs out this married man should indicate nothing is going on.

 

i think you should really distinguish between gut feeling and feelings of insecurity. and of course communication is key.

[FrequentFlyer]

Milane, if something romantic were to happen between one of your guy friends and you, you would not mention it (or perhaps water down the story?) to you BF? So, he'd be in the dark about that?

 

Then how would a guy (like your BF, or me) even KNOW what's going on? Don't you think that creates some insecure feelings in the first place? This is exactly what I am talking about.

 

As far as "animated discussions," she wouldn't be giddy or excited, actually, she'd be almost matter-of-fact. What I meant by "animated" was she could sense the agitation in my voice, and she'd ask me what's bothering me. I would tell her...I think she spends a lot of time with this one guy, and I get one version upfront ("going out tonight with my girlfriends"), and more details/different version of the story (usually weeks or sometimes months) "after the fact." She slipped in that line about him "always crashing ladies nights" almost under the radar, like I already was supposed to know that. As I wrote above, I was told he crashed a ladies night back in February. Once.

 

Now, it's all the time. It's impossible for you to tell, since you weren't privvy to the conversation, but I don't think I would have missed something like that.

 

Anyway...animated conversation...I tell her (since we've had this conversation more than once) even though he's married, and you swear nothing is going on, he seems to have a LOT of interest in you -- and a boatload of time to spend with you. The whole thing makes me uneasy... especially since I'm so far away. I have not met this guy, I don't know him. And he doesn't know me. If it is really nothing, why remain "foggy" on some of these parts of the story...like "he always crashes my girl's nights out." And all the phone calls. And emails. And text messages throughout the weekend.

 

That's when these conversations get animated...she gets defensive, I start getting ticked off. I think a lot of people would, too.

 

So, again, am I over-thinking (or over-listening?) and worrying for nothing?

[milane]

to answer your first question, if i had a slight crush on a guy friend of mine and i knew the feeling would pass and that i would never act on it, i probably wouldn't mention it to my boyfriend. however, if something actually developed between me and my guy friend and we wanted to pursue a relationship beyond friendship, i would definitely mention it to my boyfriend. does that make sense? sorry i wasn't clear in my previous message.

 

so, i'm assuming she does have girl friends since she has girls nights out. does she go into detail about the women she hangs out with? because with me, i tell the guy i am dating everything about the guy friends i hang out with as well as the girls.

 

as far as her telling you the real version months later, she might be watering down the story so you won't get paranoid or feel insecure about her going out.

 

honestly though, i can't really say if you should worry or not because i don't know the woman you are dating nor do i know the actual nature of your relationship. i say, try talking to her again about this married guy and no matter how upset you get about it, try not to show it in your tone of voice. just explain to her where you are coming from and ask how she would feel if she were in your shoes. if you question her while sounding upset, she will feel as if you are interrogating her and get defensive. if she does care for you she will try her best to understand and help better the situation.

[cbl]

The issues of feeling insecure will always be there, due to the distance. Whatever is discussed. And NOT discussed.

 

My BF and I are 6000 kilometers away. Even if we talk 3-4 times a day, we still feel insecure, thinking the other person could have just met someone or an attractive acquaintance of the opposite sex and something romantic will be developed without the other person's knowledge.

 

Truth is you will never know the truth. Just when you think she's intentionally ignoring some important details about the things that she's involved with, it never comes across her mind as something significant that worth mentioning. It all takes time... to build up the trust when you get to know each other more.... and when you do actually move closer. And even if you do live together, for certain people, it doesn't guarantee a faithful relationship. When people want to cheat they can always find a way to do it. If one's faithful, long distance will never be an issue.

 

Can I ask how long you have been connected again since you two last dated? And how long had you two been dating before? I mean, if you did not spend much time getting to know each other before and it has been a long time, then take it slow as you said at the beginning of your post. Is there a way to work around a bit? Like you might want to fly over and visit her for a few days, spend sometime with her family and friends, before you actually make the decision to move over? Will she be interested in introducing you into her social circles and meeting with her guy friends?

[FrequentFlyer]

Hi cbl,

 

To answer, we've been seeing each other again for nearly a year. Prior to that, we dated way back in the 80's. We dated each other for 5+ years (thru & after college). We've known each other a long time - since we grew up in the same neighborhood, and our families have known each other forever.

 

I want to believe that she's thought all along these details were insignificant...that is, insignificant until she started getting my reaction. She has begun mentioning his name more and more, in an effort, I believe to get me to understand where he stands and to get me to relax (I think). But it seems that even though I want to know what's happening...the more I hear how much time they spend in contact, the more uneasy I get!

 

I understand men and women can be friends. I understand it, but can't truly accept it. I just have a hard time accepting the fact this guy can spend so much time (and have so much contact) without some ulterior motive. It's a lot of contact.

 

Trying to remain optimistic...

[BohemeRose]

Sounds to me like she's been pretty honest with you thus far, so I have a feeling your insecurities may be stemming from past relationship issues and not with anything she has done.

 

However the way she asked you not to "get mad or weird" before telling her story suggests one of two things to me:

1. That you HAVE become upset or "weird" about her going out in the past, regardless of how harmless you're saying you know it is

2. It's not as harmless as you think, so you would in actuality have a reason to get upset.

 

I'm betting more on the former to be honest, because I'm guilty of it myself, only to become annoyed with my boyfriend when he tries to cover up harmless incidents to avoid a fight with me or getting me upset.

 

This could be me being my naive ol' self, but I feel that you should probably try and keep those defenses in check until you have a blatantly obvious reason for getting up in arms.

[FrequentFlyer]

Hi Boheme,

 

I feel like she has been extremely honest in all other areas, so, like I've written before, this is the only area we have any issues about. And now, whenever she is about to introduce this guy's name into our conversation, she ALWAYS says first, "now don't get mad, or weird on me..."

 

As far as having a blatantly obvious reason for getting up in arms, it ticks me off that I hear now, months later, that this guy always crashes her girls nights, instead of just once, way back in February. My point is, I don't know if she is only telling me "only part" of the story these days. So I may never know (or see) a blatantly obvious reason for getting up in arms.

 

I can't control what others tell me (or don't tell me).

 

And I would tend to agree, I am coming to the conclusion that it's more ME, and coming to grips with the fact that I have gotten weird in the past, when this topic has come up. But the whole thing with this guy having so much time for her, just frustrates and confuses me.

 

Maybe it's the "typical guy" in me...but I can't seem to get past the notion that there may be some underlying motive for his actions. And frankly, it also bothers me that she's OK with the attention she gets from this guy, and it's bothersome that she hides it from me. And it also frustrates me that there's nothing I can do about it, really.

 

This is going sound a little "caveman-like," but I just don't understand why she can't just find more girlfriends. She just spends way too much time with this guy for my comfort. I realize that probably comes off sounding selfish, but I'm venting now.

 

Thanks for listening/reading.

[BohemeRose]

The thing is, even if the guy has ulterior motives for hanging out with her, that doesn't mean that she does. If he is trying to get closer to her in a romantic sense, she could be completely oblivious to it, or at least not reciprocating those desires. I think that's probably an important thing to remember.

[FrequentFlyer]

Boheme,

 

You raise a good point, and a part of me says I should give her more credit than I am currently. I'll admit, I've been burned in some relationships in the past (who hasn't?), so I'm a little skeptical.

 

The distance is what really makes it difficult. There's only so much you can gather from the voice (conversations). It makes it a little more uncomfortable for me.

 

Again, the "skeptical caveman" in me says it's pretty remarkable that this married guy can spend all day working with her, than also have the time to crash her girls nights out, phone her up and text each other (even throughout weekends). And she says "nothing is going on, they're just friends." I even asked her a few weeks ago if everything was OK with his marriage, she said "I have no idea, I don't think there's any problems."

 

Boheme, I've read your post and completely understand it. But there's still a little voice inside me that says I'm just have a hard time believing this guy just wants to be only friends with her. And she has developed this "un-caring" attitude (and gets ticked off when I bring this guy's name up...again) because she says "they are just friends, what's the issue?" OK, it might sound a bit selfish (I'll admit that) -- that I think she ought to be a bit more concerned about my feelings. Something tells me that if the roles were reversed, she wouldn't stand for me having a female friend I spend lots of my free time with. She wouldn't object, knowing her, I think she'd simply disappear.

 

So, apparently, there's not too much I can do, except stand back and watch it unfold, keeping my mouth shut.

[BohemeRose]

If you keep bringing it up, of course she's going to get upset. It's just further reiterating that you don't trust her.

 

You said yourself that she is like "one of the guys." I have plenty of guy friends who work all day with the same people and hang out with them on their down time, male and female parties included.

 

But if no matter what anyone, especially her, tells you makes you feel any better, then I don't know what you're supposed to do except wait for one of two things:

1. You can move closer to her and feel less threatened about another male presence, but this would require you putting those negative, distrusting feelings on the back shelf.

2. She gets tired of being questioned and, whether directly or indirectly, accused of foul play and decides the relationship between you two can't go on.

 

A big mistake I'm guilty of in my own relationships, and as far as I can see many others are as well, is being so concerned with preserving our own feelings that we tend to forget that our partners have feelings as well. How would you feel if you were hanging out with a friend innocently and every time he/she is mentioned, you are given the third degree and more or less accused of infidelity? I bet it would hurt that your partner didn't trust you. And who better to confide and find comfort in then that friend who has been around so much? Getting on her back is going to push her further from you and closer to whoever is nearer.

[FrequentFlyer]

Boheme, it's true -- if I keep bringing up this issue, she will continue to be aggravated, because I've seen that happen already. And you are also correct that she (like anyone) has feelings that need to be taken into consideration. Looks like I'm guilty of overlooking that.

 

However, maybe I'm old-fashioned, out of the loop, or just have my head in the sand, but it's my opinion that these two spend a lot of time together, electronically -- and in person. I just have a hard time believing that his wife knows about it, and (if she knows about the amount of time they spend together) is OK with it.

 

I'm not accusing her of infidelity. I've told her if they are "just friends" I think she should be a little more open about time spent with this guy. Why hide anything if they are merely friends, right? Yes, I did get upset early on, but have explained to her on several occasions since that if she doesn't filter the news, and instead, just tells me what happens, I can decide whether I am OK with this -- or not. Further, I've explained that whether I'm OK with this "friend" or not, is my decision, not hers. Hiding facts is just plain wrong if you want a long-term thing.

 

There's probably not much more to add here, since I can't change other people. And I suppose I'll have to suck it up and always accept that if I want a relationship with this woman, that this man and woman are always going to be close friends (meaning even after I move there). That could influence whether I want to go through with this. It's just a little odd.

 

Again, it might be the "caveman" in me, but I just have a hard time accepting this. Understand -- I have female friends, she also has other male friends too. I'm not living in the stone age...men and women can be friends, but maybe women believe that men think exactly like women (who knows, that's been debated many times here on LS). But I don't have female friends where we text each other all weekend, go out socially, email, phone, etc -- and then work side by side all day during the week. No way! Even best friends (unless they're 14) are in that much contact. He's giving her lots of attention, and she's enjoying it.

 

But this could really be a deal breaker for me. Something just doesn't add up.

 

I believe that if the roles were reversed, I don't think she'd tolerate it. But I have too much respect for her and this relationship -- for me to get involved with another female at this stage. So, this may not be an issue of trust, maybe -- it's more a matter of respect for our relationship. It's not easy trying to do this over such a long distance.

[BohemeRose]

Well, if you're going to be that bent out of shape about it, then I suppose you should try and talk to her and ask her not to see him as much.

 

But, don't expect a positive result.

 

Whatever his situation is with his wife is, quite frankly, none of your concern so long as your s/o is remaining faithful to you. Telling yourself that his wife would be upset isn't justification for you to harbor more negative feelings about the situation. Particularly since you can't say for sure what his situation is. Perhaps his wife is cheating on him, and hanging out with your s/o and her friends is just an escape for him, while his wife is out running around on him? You can't say for sure what's going on.

 

Other than that, you seem to just give the same reasoning over and over for why you're bothered. Maybe she simply can't be the woman you need her to be for you to feel secure with yourself and the relationship. And you can't expect her to change for you.

 

I understand your concern, being in year 2 of a long distance relationship myself, but if there's one thing I learned it's that you HAVE to put trust in your s/o. For a LDR to work you need to take a more modern, open-minded approach to it or you run the risk of smothering the other person to the point where they leave.

 

My last opinion? Got out more with your own friends, or do more to keep yourself busy, and unless you come across solid proof she's having an affair with this other man, take her word for it and let it put your mind at ease that she's comfortable talking about him to you and that alone shows she can't be hiding anything from you. As for hiding some info in the past, chalk that up to her sparing your feelings since you've expressed such extreme discomfort in the past regarding the topic.

[FrequentFlyer]

Thanks Boheme, I think your advice is on the mark. I'm certainly not going to ask her to do anything like that (ask to see him less). I'll just let things progress. I've been trying to keep busy with work and friends, and not listen "too closely" and hang onto her every word. I appreciate that now she shares what's happening and does bring up his name -- because for awhile she was not mentioning his name, even though we both knew he was usually around.

 

And how he chooses to spend his free time is really of no concern to me. It could very well be for the reasons you wrote in your post, or perhaps if someone else comes along that strikes his fancy he will "move on." Who knows. And I also want to think that the more he learns about me (and meets me) he may get the picture his presence may not be as welcome as he might think.

 

We'll see. I could be totally wrong. But I don't think I am. Only time will tell.

Thanks again.