simplegirl Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I know that staying together for the kids is a common thing but I am just curious how everyone really feels about it. I was married and always thought I would be (I was a child of divorce and hated it) but I choose to leave the marriage. It had nothing to do with either of us having an A but it was other reasons. Sometimes, with everything I have to deal with now I wonder if I made the right choice. My family thinks so and says it is better for me and for my kids in the long run. In the case of my MM, he stays for his kids. He has one son from a previous marriage that he only sees sometimes and says he doesn't want that for the 2 he has with his girlfriend now. I can understand that but (I would never tell him this) as it is right now he is never home. He hates to be there so he is constantly somewhere else. If he were to leave I believe he would have a better relationship with his kids because he could spend quality time with them and they would not see all the fighting that goes on in their house now. (there is a lot of it and it is very mean, I have witnessed it). Does anyone have their own opinions? Link to post Share on other sites
Cheesecake Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Hi Simplegirl, Hope this article helps: Long-Range Effects of Divorce on Children Arthur J. Schneider, Human Development Regional Specialist, Cooper County University of Missouri Extension A major gap in post-divorce literature has been the long-term effects of divorce on children. With more than 40 percent of first marriages and 50 percent of second marriages ending in divorce, there has been a need for a major contribution to our understanding of the consequences of divorce. Constance Ahrons, a divorce and children researcher, does so in her book, We’re Still Family. Ahrons points out that American culture clings to the belief that families cannot exist outside marriage, ignoring healthy families that do not fit the nuclear family (intact two-parent) model and maintaining that divorce destroys families and harms children. She writes that societal stereotypes and the stigma attached to divorce lead parents to blame all problems children experience on divorce. Children are encouraged to blame divorce for their unhappiness and teachers are quick to attach the cause of misbehavior to divorce. Ahrons suggests that parents considering staying together or divorcing ask themselves the following questions: * Does your unhappiness result in anger or depression that hinders effective parenting? * Do you have a cold relationship that makes your home unhealthy for children? * Do you lack mutual respect, caring and interest, so that you set a poor model for your children? Children may experience other stressful events as they grow older, such as the deaths of siblings or grandparents, economic upheaval within the family, substance abuse by one or both parents, or a parent’s mental illness. Since she conducted her study of 98 pairs of divorced parents 20 years ago, Ahrons was able to track and interview 173 of their children (now age 21 to 47). She found that all but four of the parents in the original study remarried and two-thirds of the children had stepmothers and stepfathers. One-fifth of the children had a half-sibling. For most of the children, parental divorce was a painful experience that they did not want to repeat. In most cases, the two-year period following divorce was the major crisis stage. They felt angry, sad, depressed and confused about what the future would bring. However, in adulthood, the majority of the children supported their parents’ decision to divorce. Ahrons found: * 76 percent did not wish the parents were still together * 79 percent felt their parents’ decision to divorce was a good decision * 78 percent said they were not affected or were better off because of their parents’ divorce Ahrons reported that the children were better educated than their parents. Almost one-fourth had graduate degrees and one-third completed college. Only 3 percent did not complete high school. They also married at least five years later than their parents. (First marriages in the mid-20s are less likely to result in divorce than are marriages at an earlier age.) Twenty percent reported their parents’ divorce was detrimental and left permanent emotional scars, but they attributed it to the high degree of parental conflict pre- and post-divorce. Many children reported they learned positive ways to resolve conflict from the second marriage of their parents. That is consistent with other research that suggests children lack role models for healthy problem solving when exposed to arguments, constant bickering and fighting at home. The book concludes that most children of divorced parents did well and were successful in early adulthood. Link to post Share on other sites
Author simplegirl Posted August 7, 2007 Author Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thanks for the article. My feelings are very much reflected in it. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think when people say they "stay together for the kids" they use it as an excuse. Excuses are for losers. Link to post Share on other sites
Cheesecake Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think when people say they "stay together for the kids" they use it as an excuse. Excuses are for losers. I think that a child who has a stable home life with two families, rather then a loveless/unstable home life with one, is much better off, don't you? Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think that a child who has a stable home life with two families, rather then a loveless/unstable home life with one, is much better off, don't you? Yes most definitely. What kind of relationships will these children have when they grow up? Ones like mommy and daddy did...dysfunctional. The guy cheats. He's taking energy away from his family to have an extramarital affair. He isn't putting his kids first in that situation and so now him saying it is a complete joke. Yeah let the kids grow up and see their whole life was a lie...that's in their best interest. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I will respectfully disagree with you... I am convinced that it's not always the case.... I would even think that most of the time, they are not excuses... the MM really stay for the sake of his kids... he would miss them too much... he can't bare the thought of not being with them everyday anymore. And I think it's quite understandable... it is very hard on both parent not to be together as a family on a daily basis... so for some men, it is unthinkable. They think of their kids first and they just don't want to hurt them. I'm sure, in fact, many of my MMs are in that situation... their kids are their number one priority... then the OW...then the W... but they will do anything to not hurt their kids... and that include being extremely careful not to get caught... And I would even say that, in a lot of cases, once they are caught.. they will put a hell of an 'act' to their W so that she thinks he's feeling like crap, that she's number one... when, in reality, all he wants is to not be separated from his kids... Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Yes most definitely. What kind of relationships will these children have when they grow up? Ones like mommy and daddy did...dysfunctional. The guy cheats. He's taking energy away from his family to have an extramarital affair. He isn't putting his kids first in that situation and so now him saying it is a complete joke. Yeah let the kids grow up and see their whole life was a lie...that's in their best interest. It's not always a dysfunctional family... I know MMs who have been cheating most of their married life, and the W still don't have a clue... everyone, including the kids are happy. This situation is not uncommon. Not all cheaters are fighting with their spouses all the time... some are just living a normal, comfortable, surburban life.. Link to post Share on other sites
Love4Eternity Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I know that staying together for the kids is a common thing but I am just curious how everyone really feels about it. I was married and always thought I would be (I was a child of divorce and hated it) but I choose to leave the marriage. It had nothing to do with either of us having an A but it was other reasons. Sometimes, with everything I have to deal with now I wonder if I made the right choice. My family thinks so and says it is better for me and for my kids in the long run. In the case of my MM, he stays for his kids. He has one son from a previous marriage that he only sees sometimes and says he doesn't want that for the 2 he has with his girlfriend now. I can understand that but (I would never tell him this) as it is right now he is never home. He hates to be there so he is constantly somewhere else. If he were to leave I believe he would have a better relationship with his kids because he could spend quality time with them and they would not see all the fighting that goes on in their house now. (there is a lot of it and it is very mean, I have witnessed it). Does anyone have their own opinions? I am a MW with a MM, there are a lot of factors that keep us in a marriage that we no longer desire to have, children do play a big role in our decisions when it comes to staying among other things but I do believe in not staying for the sole purpose of the children if the marriage is no longer wanted by one or both parents. BUt at the same time I have found its not so easy to just walk away either, if it were, I would have left along time ago. I find it interesting that anyone could say its an excuse we use and anytime we say why we are not leaving our spouse its always just an excuse well i got news for you maybe in some cases it is an excuse but until you walk those very shoes of the person, you have no idea whats really going on behind closed doors so instead of it being an axcuse its a fact in our lives as we live them every day...when I can leave without it being or having the worst tragic ending then I will do so and not a minute before then I do not care what others think or feel about how I am handling MY situation or what my reasons are for staying its my life and I am doing what I feel is best for now...So if someone else says they are staying for what ever reason then I say hey do what you gotta do because only you know what is best for your situation and life... Link to post Share on other sites
Cheesecake Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 It's not always a dysfunctional family... I know MMs who have been cheating most of their married life, and the W still don't have a clue... everyone, including the kids are happy. This situation is not uncommon. Not all cheaters are fighting with their spouses all the time... some are just living a normal, comfortable, surburban life.. Hi Lizzie. Ok, I see your point to a degree. If indeed, the MM is going home everynight, and is spending time with his children, and does show respect, love and affection to their wives when they are around their children, if the BS turns a blind eye on the affairs that are occuring and lives in blissful ignorance, then I can see how it might be better for the children (unless and until the children eventually find out, that is - then you have to consider how betrayed the children will feel that daddy was cheating on mommy for years and years). However, if the spouses have no love or affection for each other, are cold, and disrespectful in front of the children, if they sleep in separate rooms,if the MM is hardly ever home....then I don't think it's the greatest environment for the kids as the article I've copied states. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 If the home is not a good peaceful place for everyone, then yes I would definitely think the kids are better without both parents... But, from my experience, all my MMs, no exception, do not fight with their spouse... they, in fact, have a normal, comfortable life and they love their kids to pieces. They come see me mostly during work hours so the kids do not suffer.... In most cases, the W has no clue...it's not like she's turning a bling eye, she really has no clue... none at all. She fully trusts her H. Life is good for all concern. Except for one MM that I see occasionally, and who have sex about once a year with his W... she probably knows he's cheating, but she doesn't give a hoot as long as they stay together for their 2 teenages daugthers, she will let him do what he wants.... but it's uncommon in my situation... most, in fact all, are good husbands (except for that one) and are ALL great fathers. I don't think I would be able to see a jerk who doesn't care about his children... This is very important to me... he has to be a great father... Weird huh? LOL Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Ahrons reported that the children were better educated than their parents. Almost one-fourth had graduate degrees and one-third completed college. Great article! Yeah! My children will be PHD's! Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Erased Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 My parents divorced when I was 13. And it was the best thing they could ever have done. I remember them fighting constantly after my brother died, and then they had my little brother. This was a last ditch effort to save the marriage. It just made it worse. I was one of those kids who couldn't wait to go to school or out on the weekends, and hated going home. Only because I knew that home would be hell. Well they ended up splitting and now my dad is remarried and living it up in Cairns, QLD and my Mum has come out of a pretty bad relationship with an alcoholic, but she is living with her new boyfriend who we all adore and she is really happy. And for that reason alone I would be thrilled about my parents divorcing because it is the first time in almost 20 years I have seen my parents truly happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Cheesecake Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I am a MW with a MM, there are a lot of factors that keep us in a marriage that we no longer desire to have, children do play a big role in our decisions when it comes to staying among other things but I do believe in not staying for the sole purpose of the children if the marriage is no longer wanted by one or both parents. BUt at the same time I have found its not so easy to just walk away either, if it were, I would have left along time ago. I find it interesting that anyone could say its an excuse we use and anytime we say why we are not leaving our spouse its always just an excuse well i got news for you maybe in some cases it is an excuse but until you walk those very shoes of the person, you have no idea whats really going on behind closed doors so instead of it being an axcuse its a fact in our lives as we live them every day...when I can leave without it being or having the worst tragic ending then I will do so and not a minute before then I do not care what others think or feel about how I am handling MY situation or what my reasons are for staying its my life and I am doing what I feel is best for now...So if someone else says they are staying for what ever reason then I say hey do what you gotta do because only you know what is best for your situation and life... To your point, yes, I believe that in most cases there probably are more reasons than just the children on why it's hard to leave. Finances, comfort, extended family and friends, habit, to name a few. No one said leaving was a breeze. "when I can leave without it being or having the worst tragic ending then I will do so and not a minute before " Out of curiousity, what do you think the worst tragic ending would be Love4Eternity? Link to post Share on other sites
Love4Eternity Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 To your point, yes, I believe that in most cases there probably are more reasons than just the children on why it's hard to leave. Finances, comfort, extended family and friends, habit, to name a few. No one said leaving was a breeze. "when I can leave without it being or having the worst tragic ending then I will do so and not a minute before " Out of curiousity, what do you think the worst tragic ending would be Love4Eternity? suicide! I am in the process of finding a marriage counselor while doing this and seeing the counselor hubby and I have an agreement as he is fully aware that I want to leave but he is not accepting this so both him and I came to an agreement and will attend this marriage counselor when the marriage councelor gives me the thumbs up that i can safely leave without my husband hurting himself and he accepts that our marriage is over then I will leave now mind you during this time I will be working as i have found a job that will ensure that i can provide for my children on my own i will be saving $$ which he is also full aware of...all i want to do is 1. make sure my children are taken care of 2. make sure he is stable enough to be on his own .. Yes this is my responsiblity to do i do love him no matter how i feel romantically about him his well being is very important to me ... i have already lost my father and brother to suicide among others I will not lose my childrens father to it as well...I do not know if he would actually do it but because of my experience with it i wont take that chance I need reassurance that he will be able to handle this...who knows maybe just maybe things will go in a positive direction where we can work out our problems and stay together as a family but either way I will not leave till i feel comfortable and safe doing so...i hope this makes sense Link to post Share on other sites
Unforgetable77 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I am a divorced mum of 5 kids ages ranging from 12-2. since my divorce I have seen an incredable change in the 2 oldest, They are far happier, they have more respect, and most of all they now spend quality time with thier dad Yes he does miss them terribly but agrees they are happier, not so arguementative kids, we both stayed in the M for some considerable time for the sake of the kids, but now wonder how we could have put them through so much when it wasnt necassary.... Just my 2 pennies...... Link to post Share on other sites
OldEurope Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 They come see me mostly during work hours so the kids do not suffer.... In most cases, the W has no clue...it's not like she's turning a bling eye, she really has no clue... none at all. She fully trusts her H. Life is good for all concern. In most cases the W definately has a "clue". It comes down to whether she will confront the fact of the suspected affair or not. And life is good for no one--MM, BS, OW, parent, child --who is living a lie. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Yes this is my responsiblity to do I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental but if you really think it's your responsibility to ensure your possibly-suicidal husband's well-being then why do you cheat on him? Link to post Share on other sites
greengoddess Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I am a divorced mum of 5 kids ages ranging from 12-2. since my divorce I have seen an incredable change in the 2 oldest, They are far happier, they have more respect, and most of all they now spend quality time with thier dad Yes he does miss them terribly but agrees they are happier, not so arguementative kids, we both stayed in the M for some considerable time for the sake of the kids, but now wonder how we could have put them through so much when it wasnt necassary.... Just my 2 pennies...... My god you have kids ranging from 12 - 2 but you have been involved in an affair for 14 years?? So all the while you were in an affair, after two years of being in one you decided to have children with your husband while not really committed to him? Does your exhusband know this? Are the kids all his? Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 In most cases the W definately has a "clue". It comes down to whether she will confront the fact of the suspected affair or not. And life is good for no one--MM, BS, OW, parent, child --who is living a lie. No clue at all... I know that. Link to post Share on other sites
Cheesecake Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 suicide! I am in the process of finding a marriage counselor while doing this and seeing the counselor hubby and I have an agreement as he is fully aware that I want to leave but he is not accepting this so both him and I came to an agreement and will attend this marriage counselor when the marriage councelor gives me the thumbs up that i can safely leave without my husband hurting himself and he accepts that our marriage is over then I will leave now mind you during this time I will be working as i have found a job that will ensure that i can provide for my children on my own i will be saving $$ which he is also full aware of...all i want to do is 1. make sure my children are taken care of 2. make sure he is stable enough to be on his own .. Yes this is my responsiblity to do i do love him no matter how i feel romantically about him his well being is very important to me ... i have already lost my father and brother to suicide among others I will not lose my childrens father to it as well...I do not know if he would actually do it but because of my experience with it i wont take that chance I need reassurance that he will be able to handle this...who knows maybe just maybe things will go in a positive direction where we can work out our problems and stay together as a family but either way I will not leave till i feel comfortable and safe doing so...i hope this makes sense Wow. That's horrible. Talk about being trapped. I'm so sorry about that Love4Eternity. I have read how men or more at risk to be suicidal when marriages don't work out. There's an interesting article about divorced men and suicide: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html I'm glad that he is seeing a conselour so perhaps he will eventually see that life could be better, not worse, if and when you two finally break it off. Best of luck to you. Link to post Share on other sites
child_of_isis Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Bingo! It is all a lie. It is lying to your children. To me, it is the same as gaslighting. Children may sense that something is off but mom and dad tells them everything is fine. And act accordingly. Dress it up any way you like, but it is still gassing. If you want your children to grow up to be honest adults, you should allow them the dignity of living in truth. Yeah let the kids grow up and see their whole life was a lie...that's in their best interest. Link to post Share on other sites
Love4Eternity Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental but if you really think it's your responsibility to ensure your possibly-suicidal husband's well-being then why do you cheat on him? Because just as he has needs so do I, and its not all sexual either in fact more often then non, most of what the mm and I do is talk, he listen to me and I mean really listen to me, i have had some issues with the birth of my 2nd son and the death of my brother and cannot seem to just sit down and talk to my husband with out him wanting sex all the time with my mm I can sit with him for hours and just talk about my feelings while he listens to me and not one time will he make a sexual advance at me, the mm and I do not fight or put demands on each other we just spend time together in a peaceful setting, i feel I need this type of setting and i have told hubby this but for some reason or another he just doesnt seem to get it, he will give me space for one day or an open ear and then its right back to being unattentive and all about him and his needs...if I were "in love" and while providing my husband with his needs he returned it to me then i would have no need or desire to be with anyone else...he knows this he knows i want out he knows i want to see other people but he chooses to use this little "weapon" of his advantage, because he knows i wont leave then.... Link to post Share on other sites
Love4Eternity Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Wow. That's horrible. Talk about being trapped. I'm so sorry about that Love4Eternity. I have read how men or more at risk to be suicidal when marriages don't work out. There's an interesting article about divorced men and suicide: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html I'm glad that he is seeing a conselour so perhaps he will eventually see that life could be better, not worse, if and when you two finally break it off. Best of luck to you. This is what I have tried to explain to him that i am not leaving to hurt him but to give him a better life, because having an affair isnt how I want to live i would rather it be open and out there but he insists that since we are married regardless of our situation that we remain married because even if i am not happy he is and the kids are, I feel we should seperate for a while to see if its a better environment for all of us, but he doesnt see this which is why i want to go to marriage counseling no only can i get a grasp on my own feelings but he can maybe then understand why I need to be on my own and why the kids need to have two happy familys vs one bad one...i will go read the article thank you for the link... Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 he knows i want out he knows i want to see other people but he chooses to use this little "weapon" of his advantage, because he knows i wont leave then.... That's exactly what he's doing to you. He's playing on your good heart. He knows what to say to you to keep you there and I'm sorry but he is very wrong to do that. That's being manipulative in the lowest form. I'm sorry for the loss of your brother. And I'm very angry at your H for playing this card with you. I usually don't condone cheating and I'm not saying you're a saint for doing it but at least you admit what you do is wrong. And you're doing it to make yourself feel better. To have certain needs met. But I wonder if your H holds it against you and throws it in your face for how you are less than perfect while ignoring his own shortcomings? Your H really sounds like a creep to me. Link to post Share on other sites
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