Open To Receive....Bring it on!!

[Tsuki no Michi]

More OT: Yes, I was aware of that but the balance of what I said, in reference to infidelity still holds true within the New Testament.

 

Which is why I always try to follow the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" example. If the Christ I follow would not condemn the woman for doing what she did, then how can I justify doing so in my own life?

 

If there was perfect love and we all loved our fellow man, we would not covet or sin, now would we?

 

True. But perhaps if we tried harder to forgive the offenses against us then maybe we would all learn how to do so in the first place. Isn't that the lesson of forgiveness in the end?

 

TNM

[Cobra_X30]

Your right! Go back to bed....your not getting this thread!

 

Some may call you an instigator, but I think your spunky.

[Cobra_X30]

What is it a person has to do to keep their marriage affair proof? I imagine that in time after bills, babies, chores, delegating responsibilities, tiredness, loss of sex life due to new babies, an affair or a fun spunky other person starts looking pretty good.

 

I imagine a husband working 70 hours a week to make sure income is good, going to the gym so he doesn't lose his apperance, reading up to keep conversations intersting, taking a culinary class to improve cooking skills. Surprising his wife with a trip to Bermuda every month, hiring help so they can have alone time, juggling outings with friends. Taking seminars so he can keep up to date in his profession and stat powerful in his field. And all of this in between taking kids out and picking them up and the hours of 8-10PM when he is home.

 

The wife, same as above, but add in wearing go go boots evey night while preparing gourmet dishes and controlling the kids, a sparkling vivacious personality, never a frown, why it should be easy! Arranginmg dates with her husband and keeping things spontaneous all betwenn the time slot of 8- midnight on weekdays and the weekends too.

 

Of course this is all necessary to ensure hubby or wifey never gets bored..or watch out! It seems so impossible, why do people even bother getting married if they can't accept that settling down period, the weight gain, the kids, the routine?

 

This isn't directed at anyone, just my own personal rant. It just seems that it is a cycle that willalways continue. I just don't know if it is possible for people to work as hard on their marriage as may need be, so....wash, repeat, rinse, start over.

 

Fidelity is a choice you make every day, so all you have to do is find someone with that same ability to make good choices. Isnt that what love really is?

[RealityCheck]

Some may call you an instigator, but I think your spunky.

 

Slam dunk! On the spunk!...lol

[Cobra_X30]

Slam dunk! On the spunk!...lol

 

No worries, its a decidedly Canadian trait. Its one reason I keep going back to visit!

[Tsuki no Michi]

Fidelity is a choice you make every day, so all you have to do is find someone with that same ability to make good choices. Isnt that what love really is?

 

Some of us find that no matter how hard we try to make the right choice, it always winds up being the wrong one in the end. I don't know if it's fate, karma or what, but from someone who actively tries to make the right choices, it's infinitely disheartening to see them all turn out bad no matter what you do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for me. At some point though I have to ask why it doesn't seem to matter what choices I make, whether I seek advice on them or not, that they all seem to fall apart. It's not for lack of trying. I wonder if God's trying to tell me something and I'm just not getting it (yes, I know the A is wrong. I'm referring more in general to my life as a whole, and well before my current situation ever came to be).

 

TNM

[RealityCheck]

No worries, its a decidedly Canadian trait. Its one reason I keep going back to visit!

 

Nice to hear!

 

MO is a member that I met on this Forum....I go visit her in the states and she comes to visit me in Canada for the trade....ooops!

I mean trait!.....lolllllll

[squeak]

Fidelity is a choice you make every day, so all you have to do is find someone with that same ability to make good choices. Isnt that what love really is?

 

That's a nice quote!

[RealityCheck]

Fidelity is a choice you make every day, so all you have to do is find someone with that same ability to make good choices. Isnt that what love really is?

 

Beauuuuutiful indeed!:love::love:

 

Damn near brought a tear to my eye!

[Tomcat33]

Wow so many things to respond to so little time...

 

Touche and TBF combined answers: Why do some of us who have experienced infidelity done on to us engage in a rel with someone who did what was done on to us, TBF people recreate the same patterns:

 

 

I can only speak for myself my case was one in a million of MY life. I met this man working on a project together and we developed and instant connection, I have developed connections with M men through work before many times and have been hit on by married men and never would I have entertained the thought of anything more. The fact that a man is unavailable is gospel and still is (not hypocritcal but I am back to who I have always been despite this last situation) to the point that there was no attraction to be had on my part, beyond that of a friendship,. Why did this happen as it did this time? IT happened slowly and very unexpectedly there was no premeditations there was not scanning to my past for some vendictive action to take place in pay of what I have already lived almost 10 ago, but what DID happen was a solid connection with a man who assured me his life was not what it seemed. In time adn fater many month of deep discussions and soul searching on both parts I saw that his words met reality, but before it could go to a point of destruction I decided to end the emotional tie for the good of everyone. I urged him to save his marriage and I stepped away, I removed myself from our project and tried to makes some sense of what had happened and go on with my life.

 

He seeked me out months later and well after he had confessed he had fallen in love with me (there had been nothing phsyical during the time of the EA) so he seeked me out to start a rel as a seperated man. He was living on his own, assured me there was nothing to save at home the love was gone and had been for many years if it had EVER even existed (they were married 3yrs and had been dating prior 5 yrs before that) and was oficially seperated from his W, not D but def seperated. I allowed it into my life because neither he nor I wanted to play a part in an A, what we hade was too good to reduce it to sneaking around and to baptise it with titles of the OTHER vs the CHEATER. He refused to tell his W we were together but that was his doing that was his decision for ways in which he wanted to terminate his M. there were no children involved and to the best of my NAIVE, yes NAIVE you read right, knowledge it seemed like what he offered me in his words was the truth. I chose to trust him to believe that he really was unhappy in his marriage and had been for a very long time and had possibly not had the incentive to make a move. I never agreed with that, but I loved the man and though I don't feel he did things in the best fashion possible I know that as humans we don't always do things in the most ideal way. I undrestood my ex fiance didn't do things in an ideal way but was very aware of what destroyed my rel with him. So I made a conscious decision to go along with what felt right to me in that moment because I understand that love is not endless. I took a risk I needed to take in the name of love and in thinking I had found the man I was deeply in love with on so many levels, moreso than I had felt with other men, I never had this kind of connection with my ex fiancee not even close.

 

The rest I am afraid you can read on my back posts, I have recounted my story too many times and I really want to spare those that do know the story the arduous task of having to read about it again as well as sparing myself the task of having to repeat it yet again. Sorry TOUCHE nothing against your question just really too much to get into. But click to my early posts and you can read about my rollercoaster ride since I came here.

 

I can say with out a shadow of doubt that yes I do tend to attract the same style of men yet I have had very different rels with the significant men in my life and I am very aware of what I find appealing but on the same token i will NEVER engage in a dodgey situation such as getting involved with someone who is not entirely free for the simple reason that all the pain involved is just not worth it, even if the outcome had been as I had first set out to achieve. This will never happen again.

 

There was no master plan, there was no risudual forces prompting me to seduce or engage this man in any way, quite frankly it was very much the oposite. It took a LOT of pursuing on his part and a lot of proving in his actions to me that he was serious about wanitng to terminate one relationship in order to go for this one with me. I was naive, I thought we could pick up with our new found connection and carry on with our lives taking into account all the baggage that was till pending, naive that I could take on such a big emotional responisbility putting faith into someone that was more lost than he appeared to be. I find fault in the lies that he had me believe in order not to lose me, but time showed what I knew all along and failed to see in this particular time blinded by cupid's arrow, that he was no way ready to embark on anything that would require his full heart and mind into what I needed. He gave me his 100% he really did, he was with me in mind and body and soul but I wanted more I wanted the reassurance that the marriage was done for good and he could not give me that in the time frame I gave him by my side so the end had to come, it was just too emotionally draining for me and the reality of JUST how complex this situation was didn't hit me square in the face until I was knee deep in it, watching my own health and well being suffer for two people who acted one moment too late to have anyting good come of this. I include myself in the delayed reaction.

 

I fault him for leading me on for making me think there was hope for us when he knew that emotionally he was not ready to take on what we would have, and I blame myself for putting so much trust in someone I knew so little. I blame him for making me think I was # 1 and in his actions I was he did always put me first but in his head I only came second to his real motives which he only knew. It was a very complex messy situation where I feel I was really misguided and mislead, and I don't expect any sort of pitty from anyone I just wish people would put their preconceived notions aside for once and tried to see that these sitations are never as simple as some broken person who engages in an illicit relationshiop with an even MORE broken other person. Love and attraction are very powerful things people move mountains for love but people also destroy because of love.

 

To simplify every affair as two selfish people just out to wreck a happy home is so far off from the mark, that if you could see what some of us have seen on the other side and even both sides, it would open the spectrum a little more to what really happens, and it is so much more than just and evil force.

 

I read an interesting pasage today in a book by Paulo Coelho author of the famous book the Alchemeist, it said:

 

We change our reality through faith. You can't have faith in something you dislike. Faith is not desire, faith is will. And desire only fills space. Will changes the space that surrounds us but in order for that to happen desire must exist.

 

It really struck me because if this is so then it's no wonder relationships fail, when people lose faith in what they exeprience they open the door to desire. And if the A is the open door to desire, before that can even happen we must look at what happens to faith. I really think the man who cheated on me had lost faith in what we had, and I can see why it got to that point and what I did to contribute to that lost faith, I had allowed myself to lose faith too I accept that. I don't excuse his expression of desire that is just the aftermath. THAT is the only reason why I can now understand what my exMM was going through in his situation and why I took a leap of faith for the ultimate risk. Sometimes in life you have to risk for what you have faith in, and at the time had faith that this was one off for both of us that he was no different than I, just two people stuck in a horrible situation where someone was bound to get hurt. In the end all three got hurt, because I know even he hurts.

 

Tsuki: LOVED your posts, you really have a way with exporessing yourself, have notcied a few of your posts already and I respect your tone.

[Touche]

Fidelity is a choice you make every day, so all you have to do is find someone with that same ability to make good choices. Isnt that what love really is?

 

I agree. A great quote. But it's not just about love. But also about commitment. It's about shared values and morals. It's just like you said..about finding someone who has the same ability to make good choices.

 

It's not all about love. It's about a whole hell of a lot more than that.

[NoIDidn't]

Whew! I just read this whole thread from beginning to end and I STILL don't get the point of this thread.

 

RealityCheck, if you are around, what exactly are you saying? It comes across as if you are saying that OW are some wonderful, happy, charitably minded women who *found* themselves in an affair? If that's the case, what are you saying about the BWs who *found out* about their H's affairs?

 

I am really not getting the jist of what you are saying. Help. Please.

[Cobra_X30]

Some of us find that no matter how hard we try to make the right choice, it always winds up being the wrong one in the end. I don't know if it's fate, karma or what, but from someone who actively tries to make the right choices, it's infinitely disheartening to see them all turn out bad no matter what you do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for me. At some point though I have to ask why it doesn't seem to matter what choices I make, whether I seek advice on them or not, that they all seem to fall apart. It's not for lack of trying. I wonder if God's trying to tell me something and I'm just not getting it (yes, I know the A is wrong. I'm referring more in general to my life as a whole, and well before my current situation ever came to be).

 

TNM

 

Why would God create you without the ability to follow the commandments that he sets? Doesnt that just sound silly to you?

 

I understand that many times the feelings and situations that you wind up in make it feel as though you have no control. Believe me, I struggle dailey to make sense of things and make the right choice. Sometimes I get it right sometimes I dont.

 

I learned growing up that there are some choices are more important than others, sometimes you need to live for someone or something beyond yourself, and sometimes you need to keep yourself away from situations that make it easy for bad choices to be made. (Im going for longest RunOn sentence ever).

 

TNM, you may have made some bad choices in the past, even flubbed some big ones. Thats ok, you cant change the past, but I promise you the future is yours...

[Ladyjane14]

... I always try to follow the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"...

 

But you've apparently IGNORED "Thou shalt not commit adultery".

 

This is the problem with cheaters... they seem to have sooooo much trouble picking and choosing their beliefs in a way which will allow them to keep on screwing people.

 

Even this thread is just another feint. One would suppose it's about how we should all judge the OW/OM by their kindness, generosity, and charitable works, all the while ignoring the fact they're sneaking around behind some poor shmuck's back . (Oooops... I forgot. ... We're not supposed to "judge", right?. )

 

Sorry kids, but I make HUNDREDS of "judgments" every day. I "judge" the distance between my bumper and the garage. I "judge" the amount of salt needed in the soup. I "judge" whether or not I'll need an umbrella when I go outside. And if you tell me you're f*cking somebody else's husband or wife... I "judge" you NOT to be Mother Theresa.

 

Go ahead and drop your pocket change into the donation box at McDonald's or 7-11 if it makes you feel better. Just don't expect the rest of us to frigging canonize you over it.

[RealityCheck]

I read an interesting pasage today in a book by Paulo Coelho author of the famous book the Alchemeist, it said:

 

We change our reality through faith. You can't have faith in something you dislike. Faith is not desire, faith is will. And desire only fills space. Will changes the space that surrounds us but in order for that to happen desire must exist.

 

It really struck me because if this is so then it's no wonder relationships fail, when people lose faith in what they exeprience they open the door to desire. And if the A is the open door to desire, before that can even happen we must look at what happens to faith. I really think the man who cheated on me had lost faith in what we had, and I can see why it got to that point and what I did to contribute to that lost faith, I had allowed myself to lose faith too I accept that. I don't excuse his expression of desire that is just the aftermath. THAT is the only reason why I can now understand what my exMM was going through in his situation and why I took a leap of faith for the ultimate risk. Sometimes in life you have to risk for what you have faith in, and at the time had faith that this was one off for both of us that he was no different than I, just two people stuck in a horrible situation where someone was bound to get hurt. In the end all three got hurt, because I know even he hurts.quote]

 

Well said! Well delivered! Awesome!

[Tomcat33]

I agree. A great quote. But it's not just about love. But also about commitment. It's about shared values and morals. It's just like you said..about finding someone who has the same ability to make good choices.

 

It's not all about love. It's about a whole hell of a lot more than that.

 

 

I agree and I admire people like you who were fortunate enough to find the exact half to share their life together. One of my sibilings has this type of marriage, they are 10yrs married and have the most awsome connection I have ever seen. They are truly in tune with one another and of course they have their little spats like all couples but it would seriously take a bulldoser to take those apart, even after they had kids they managed to keep it together. They get fit together, they parent together and see the world as a family and have found a balance in work/life that works for them and does not leave room for weirdness to happen, they are truly blessed BUT they work very hard at it, They have common goals and stick to them.

 

So yeah I agree it boils down to A LOT more than just love.

[Trialbyfire]

Fidelity is a choice you make every day, so all you have to do is find someone with that same ability to make good choices. Isnt that what love really is?

Fidelity is choice and so is love. Your quote is romantic but people change. If you consider corruption by power and money, everyone has a price.

[Cobra_X30]

I agree. A great quote. But it's not just about love. But also about commitment. It's about shared values and morals. It's just like you said..about finding someone who has the same ability to make good choices.

 

It's not all about love. It's about a whole hell of a lot more than that.

 

Put all of what you just said together with a slice of bread... and that is love.

 

Not very romantic really. No had me at hello, or love at first sight.

 

But I think I would rather have someone who says "I choose to love him and only him", than someone who says "I cant help my feelings I just love him"

[annabelle75]

Put all of what you just said together with a slice of bread... and that is love.

 

Not very romantic really. No had me at hello, or love at first sight.

 

But I think I would rather have someone who says "I choose to love him and only him", than someone who says "I cant help my feelings I just love him"

 

Thats a really good way of looking at you. For a player, you sure know what love is all about.

[Trialbyfire]

There is a separation between personal justice and the justice God brings. You are called to forgive, but that does not mean evil deeds are not to be punished. Understand the difference?

Exodus 21:23-27, is retributional justice between people. An eye for an eye, since you believe that the old Testament is still valid.

[annabelle75]

Thats a really good way of looking at love. For a player, you sure know what love is all about.

 

since i couldn;t go back and edit my original post

[Cobra_X30]

Exodus 21:23-27, is retributional justice between people. An eye for an eye, since you believe that the old Testament is still valid.

 

Yes, but that justice is dictated by God not men. Very difficult to explain... as I am not a pastor. Do you see a difference between me and you and then me and you together? We as individuals are not to carry out our own versions of Gods justice. We as a church carry out this justice. Hmmm... I hope I didnt mess that up.

 

You can call me Old School, when it comes to matters of faith.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, but that justice is dictated by God not men. Very difficult to explain... as I am not a pastor. Do you see a difference between me and you and then me and you together? We as individuals are not to carry out our own versions of Gods justice. We as a church carry out this justice. Hmmm... I hope I didnt mess that up.

 

You can call me Old School, when it comes to matters of faith.

Tell me what the Bible states about infidelity.

[Babybird]

I think Cobra hit on the bottom line here. You mess around with a married person, then you're messing around with dirt...garbage. Or rubble as TC said. No matter WHAT the reason is that the cheater gives, you will never really know the REAL reason. Because, as has been pointed out, you're only getting ONE side. And to top it all off you're getting it from a known liar and cheater!

 

And besides that, who cares what the reason is...a man (or woman) of integrity gets out of that marriage that is supposed to be so broken BEFORE starting a new relatlonship. What's so hard to grasp about that? That's the classy and right thing to do. Period. End of story.

 

What's that expression about lying down with dogs and getting fleas? It shocks me how so many have such low standards for themselves.

 

I think, after skipping 5 or 6 pages of arguing, that this is what the post is about. The MM mentioned is automatically referred to as dirt, garbage, and usually the knowledgeable OW is a man-stealing, immoral whore.

 

Even if one is having an A that doesn't mean that these people are completely horrible, rotten, bad people. It isn't excusing their actions, its just saying that having one character flaw or lack of honor in this specific area of love/lust doesn't mean that they are overall a crappy person. Prone to making bad choices and being disrespectful to another marriage vows, yes.

 

How many of the BS' here have stayed in their M and worked it out totally for love? Not because its better for the kids or because they can't live separate because of financial reasons. I'm willing to bet that love was about a third of the reason, when kids were involved. Then you throw in the families opinions, the moving, the fear of being alone, and I bet not one of you can say that love was the sole reason for working on your marriage. If you can agree with any of this then you can at least empathize with the way that the MM feels at some point when he's having an A. Doesn't make it so easy to just walk away does it? Seems to me that the reasons for staying together after DD and the reasons the MM gives as an excuse are pretty similar but for some reason we can never seem to except the MM story. Hmmm...

 

Just a little food for thought.

[Tomcat33]

I read an interesting pasage today in a book by Paulo Coelho author of the famous book the Alchemeist, it said:

 

We change our reality through faith. You can't have faith in something you dislike. Faith is not desire, faith is will. And desire only fills space. Will changes the space that surrounds us but in order for that to happen desire must exist.

 

It really struck me because if this is so then it's no wonder relationships fail, when people lose faith in what they exeprience they open the door to desire. And if the A is the open door to desire, before that can even happen we must look at what happens to faith. I really think the man who cheated on me had lost faith in what we had, and I can see why it got to that point and what I did to contribute to that lost faith, I had allowed myself to lose faith too I accept that. I don't excuse his expression of desire that is just the aftermath. THAT is the only reason why I can now understand what my exMM was going through in his situation and why I took a leap of faith for the ultimate risk. Sometimes in life you have to risk for what you have faith in, and at the time had faith that this was one off for both of us that he was no different than I, just two people stuck in a horrible situation where someone was bound to get hurt. In the end all three got hurt, because I know even he hurts.quote]

 

Well said! Well delivered! Awesome!

 

 

Thanks Reality Check! (I love your screen name every time I direct a comment at you it is SO apropos!!!)

 

And I wouldn't bother explaining the original post anymore, I think those who get it got it and those who don't probably never will. Besides this thread has taken a life of its own and it was been one of the better threads in the forum in a while, so thank you for this!