Open To Receive....Bring it on!!

[Tsuki no Michi]

I read an interesting pasage today in a book by Paulo Coelho author of the famous book the Alchemeist, it said:

 

We change our reality through faith. You can't have faith in something you dislike. Faith is not desire, faith is will. And desire only fills space. Will changes the space that surrounds us but in order for that to happen desire must exist.

 

Thank you for that. I always think it helps to remember wise quotes because they are what seems to stick with you when you need them.

 

It really struck me because if this is so then it's no wonder relationships fail, when people lose faith in what they exeprience they open the door to desire. And if the A is the open door to desire, before that can even happen we must look at what happens to faith. I really think the man who cheated on me had lost faith in what we had, and I can see why it got to that point and what I did to contribute to that lost faith, I had allowed myself to lose faith too I accept that.

 

You have no idea how true that is for me. My marriage failed long before I met my MW. It failed because I lost faith in it. I lost faith in God for a period somewhere along the way as well and regretably I still have a long way to go to regain it. I will tell you this, I have *never* in all my life felt so horrible as when I lost faith in things I had put up to be pedestals in my life. I promised myself I would never get a divorce after what happened to my parents, yet I ended up doing just that, and by my own actions. I promised myself I would never be in a relationship with a married woman, but I am. I promised myself I would always put others' welfare above my own, yet here I am putting my own above those of my MW's family. Who am I to destroy what they have built, what they build their own expectations for life upon? And yet I find I cannot help but stand by her as long as she will have me. Why that is I don't know. Perhaps some flaw in my character, perhaps some dark selfishness I never knew existed within me. I truly don't know and I have done no end of soul-searching about it.

 

Like everyone else in this situation I know I find ways to justify my actions. It doesn't make it right, I know. And realistically if God punishes me for it then I deserve no less than whatever rage or vengeance He wishes to visit upon me. I have many theories about why God would allow us to get into this situation if it were so horrible, but the only answer I ever get is the same one He gives to those who ask why the innocent suffer: His silence. I try, but sometimes I wonder if all this that's currently happening is merely to test my faith, to see if I can bring myself to trust God fully again. I don't know. All I know is that I am in a dark place and I am trusting that He will lead me out of it in a way that hurts the fewest people. The hope in me wants to believe it's possible. The despair in me fears it isn't.

 

Tsuki: LOVED your posts, you really have a way with expressing yourself, have notcied a few of your posts already and I respect your tone.

 

Thanks. Though I admit I'd trade in a heartbeat any eloquence I may have to heal those I have hurt.

 

TNM

[Touche]

I agree and I admire people like you who were fortunate enough to find the exact half to share their life together. One of my sibilings has this type of marriage, they are 10yrs married and have the most awsome connection I have ever seen. They are truly in tune with one another and of course they have their little spats like all couples but it would seriously take a bulldoser to take those apart, even after they had kids they managed to keep it together. They get fit together, they parent together and see the world as a family and have found a balance in work/life that works for them and does not leave room for weirdness to happen, they are truly blessed BUT they work very hard at it, They have common goals and stick to them.

 

So yeah I agree it boils down to A LOT more than just love.

 

Thank you, TC. Your other post above touched me. I feel for you. I really do. But I don't really think of you (or Annabelle) as true OW's. I don't. The man was separated. I myself was separated when I met my H. You had faith and there's nothing wrong with that. How could you know that it would turn out as it did? And I didn't go back yet and read your backstory but I'm assuming he wasn't living with his wife when you got involved?

 

We all take our chances at love. Sometimes we get it right. Most of the time we get it wrong. But there are so many signs that can protect us and show us when it's not meant to be. I know I'm a pain in the ass with my talk of "signs" and "red flags" but it's so true.

 

It doesn't matter how much we think something is meant to be and how much we love the other person..we have to keep our wits about us in order to not get hurt. And in order to not hurt others as well.

 

TC, I'm sure that you've learned from this. You and others, including myself, can point out to others what to look for. I mean what to avoid. Can't you?

 

You can have what your sibling has. You can. You're worthy of that.

 

And Cobra, you continue to impress me. I'm very convinced that loving someone is a CHOICE...it's not happenstance. It doesn't just "happen". That's just bull in my mind.

 

It's true that we can't help who we are physically attracted to, but we can choose who we decide to give our hearts to. And that's where so many people make a mistake.

[Tomcat33]

I think, after skipping 5 or 6 pages of arguing, that this is what the post is about. The MM mentioned is automatically referred to as dirt, garbage, and usually the knowledgeable OW is a man-stealing, immoral whore.

 

Even if one is having an A that doesn't mean that these people are completely horrible, rotten, bad people. It isn't excusing their actions, its just saying that having one character flaw or lack of honor in this specific area of love/lust doesn't mean that they are overall a crappy person. Prone to making bad choices and being disrespectful to another marriage vows, yes.

 

How many of the BS' here have stayed in their M and worked it out totally for love? Not because its better for the kids or because they can't live separate because of financial reasons. I'm willing to bet that love was about a third of the reason, when kids were involved. Then you throw in the families opinions, the moving, the fear of being alone, and I bet not one of you can say that love was the sole reason for working on your marriage. If you can agree with any of this then you can at least empathize with the way that the MM feels at some point when he's having an A. Doesn't make it so easy to just walk away does it? Seems to me that the reasons for staying together after DD and the reasons the MM gives as an excuse are pretty similar but for some reason we can never seem to except the MM story. Hmmm...

 

Just a little food for thought.

 

 

SO true an all counts! Someone else who gets it!

[annabelle75]

Tell me what the Bible states about infidelity.

 

Says its wrong.

 

Also says a ton for other stuff that we are all guilty of is wrong too. Including judgement.

[GreenEyedLady]

Says its wrong.

 

Also says a ton for other stuff that we are all guilty of is wrong too. Including judgement.

 

That's an excellent point!

[Trialbyfire]

Says its wrong.

 

Also says a ton for other stuff that we are all guilty of is wrong too. Including judgement.

Adultery/Infidelity is pretty easy to define. Judgement is not so easy to define. I could easily say that you have passed judgement on me for assuming that I've passed judgement on you. That would make you a double sinner, no?

[Tsuki no Michi]

Says its wrong.

 

Also says a ton for other stuff that we are all guilty of is wrong too. Including judgement.

 

"Judge not that thy be not judged. For with what judgement you judge another, so shall the Father also judge you."

 

This isn't meant to be a sermon, but that was the first Bible verse I ever learned after accepting Christ. It is one of the primary tenets I try to live by. I know I will be judged, but I can at least try to refrain from judging others while I'm here.

 

However, I do know some people who believe it's okay to judge someone for a sin you haven't committed. I think that's a bit of justification on their own part considering that the Bible says if we sin only in our minds we still have sinned as if we had in the flesh. I do know these same people actually *would* cast the first stone if given the chance though. They have said as much to me in person so I know that at least is not conjecture.

 

TNM

[annabelle75]

Adultery/Infidelity is pretty easy to define. Judgement is not so easy to define. I could easily say that you have passed judgement on me for assuming that I've passed judgement on you. That would make you a double sinner, no?

 

hee hee ... doesn't work that way. Don't enter in to a biblical debate with a pastor's daughter. I could talk you in circles for hours.

[GreenEyedLady]

Adultery/Infidelity is pretty easy to define. Judgement is not so easy to define. I could easily say that you have passed judgement on me for assuming that I've passed judgement on you. That would make you a double sinner, no?

 

Is this the religion forum now? Sorry I thought it was the sinner forum...

 

Being in debt's a sin, being a glutton's a sin, lying is a sin, vanity is a sin, envy, etc...the list goes on and on...

 

Humans sin! No one is without sin...

 

So it doesn't seem like this is an argument that anyone would really win...

[Touche]

I think, after skipping 5 or 6 pages of arguing, that this is what the post is about. The MM mentioned is automatically referred to as dirt, garbage, and usually the knowledgeable OW is a man-stealing, immoral whore.

 

Even if one is having an A that doesn't mean that these people are completely horrible, rotten, bad people. It isn't excusing their actions, its just saying that having one character flaw or lack of honor in this specific area of love/lust doesn't mean that they are overall a crappy person. Prone to making bad choices and being disrespectful to another marriage vows, yes.

 

I would agree with the above for the most part...BUT I think people who do this type of thing (cheat with a married person and cheat on their marriage) have many other flaws. I really believe that it doesn't just stop there. That kind of dishonesty carries over into other parts of their lives. I guess I'm actually disagreeing with you in the end..because I don't think it's a matter of just ONE character flaw. Think about it.

 

How many of the BS' here have stayed in their M and worked it out totally for love? Not because its better for the kids or because they can't live separate because of financial reasons. I'm willing to bet that love was about a third of the reason, when kids were involved. Then you throw in the families opinions, the moving, the fear of being alone, and I bet not one of you can say that love was the sole reason for working on your marriage. If you can agree with any of this then you can at least empathize with the way that the MM feels at some point when he's having an A. Doesn't make it so easy to just walk away does it? Seems to me that the reasons for staying together after DD and the reasons the MM gives as an excuse are pretty similar but for some reason we can never seem to except the MM story. Hmmm...

 

I'm sorry but I'm confused about what you're confused about. Huh? Who said it's easy to walk away? Who said that doing the right thing is EASY? If the MM or MW thinks that it's easier to have an affair than to try to work it out or to honorably end it..I'm sorry. I ain't buying what you're selling.

 

You mention the BS. And their reasons for staying. What the heck does that have to do with what the cheater and liar has done? Sorry...don't see the connection. How can you make that kind of crazy connection? Are you for real? Wow..now I've heard it all!

 

What kind of code of conduct do you subscribe to? You put the BS in the same category as the cheater and the liar? Are you for real? Wow. Wow. That's all I have to say. Unbelievable.

 

Just a little food for thought.

 

 

Food for thought? Or total bunk? You be the judge.

[Trialbyfire]

hee hee ... doesn't work that way. Don't enter in to a biblical debate with a pastor's daughter. I could talk you in circles for hours.

Do it. I'm interested.

[Tsuki no Michi]

Adultery/Infidelity is pretty easy to define. Judgement is not so easy to define. I could easily say that you have passed judgement on me for assuming that I've passed judgement on you. That would make you a double sinner, no?

 

Just because something is not easy to define does not excuse one from not following the rule. As for the last, I don't see them going around saying you are a bad person for judging others either. Yet I see many who say committing other sins (in this case adultery) makes them a bad person and unworthy of God's grace and ultimately, *our* forgiveness. Obedience to one commandment such as don't commit adultery does not lessen the severity of disobedience to others.

 

TNM

[Trialbyfire]

Is this the religion forum now? Sorry I thought it was the sinner forum...

 

Being in debt's a sin, being a glutton's a sin, lying is a sin, vanity is a sin, envy, etc...the list goes on and on...

 

Humans sin! No one is without sin...

 

So it doesn't seem like this is an argument that anyone would really win...

Hey, I didn't drag this into this forum but I'm willing to play. Refer to Tsuki's first biblical reference. You need to go smack her for it.

[Cobra_X30]

Tell me what the Bible states about infidelity.

 

Synopsis: Big NO, NO.

 

Look, I believe that those who do wrong pay for it. Not always in the here and now, but they do pay for it.

 

Most of the serial cheaters Ive met in my life, hate themselves so much that it is almost heartwrenching. I am sorry to say that this is particularly true for the females. You cant walk through life with a total disregard for the feelings of others and not have an issue inside.

[NoIDidn't]

Food for thought? Or total bunk? You be the judge.

 

A little of both.

 

I too wonder how the OPs so easily lump the betrayed into the same pot as the cheaters. Is it because they are both married and both decided to stay FOR WHATEVER REASONS?

 

What does the BS's reasons for staying have to do with the OP's reasons for cheating with the WS? Nothing at all.

 

Why do the OPs always have to try (poorly too, I might add) to make the BS in some way responsible for the A, the outcome of the A, or their own actions?

 

Baffling. Really.

[Cobra_X30]

Adultery/Infidelity is pretty easy to define. Judgement is not so easy to define. I could easily say that you have passed judgement on me for assuming that I've passed judgement on you. That would make you a double sinner, no?

 

Sorry thats just way too much math for my brain. Besides I thought to negatives multiplied together create a positive?

[Trialbyfire]

Just because something is not easy to define does not excuse one from not following the rule. As for the last, I don't see them going around saying you are a bad person for judging others either. Yet I see many who say committing other sins (in this case adultery) makes them a bad person and unworthy of God's grace and ultimately, *our* forgiveness. Obedience to one commandment such as don't commit adultery does not lessen the severity of disobedience to others.

 

TNM

In order to follow the rule, one must always define the terms such as judgment in the same fashion. To only take bits and pieces of the Bible to utilize when it becomes advantageous to self, doesn't make sense to me. As you know, I've fallen away.

[Tsuki no Michi]

Hey, I didn't drag this into this forum but I'm willing to play. Refer to Tsuki's first biblical reference. You need to go smack her for it.

 

Him .

 

And for what it's worth, the Biblical references were primarily to show where my own point of view comes from. I have no desire to impose them on others, but they are infinitely relevant when trying to examine why someone does what they do, especially if they are important to them. When others questioned my understanding is how religion as a whole got dragged into the discussion.

 

TNM

[Touche]

Ok, so what's the bottom line then? We're talking about good people who have made bad mistakes, right? So what will make everyone happy here? Should we just look the other way and tell everyone how good they are deep down? Is that what we're supposed to do? Forgive? Is it our place to forgive? Is it?

 

What's the right thing to do here in this forum?

 

We're not supposed to judge. We're not supposed to point out where others have gone wrong. We're not supposed to dwell on where we've gone wrong. Then what the hell? What the hell are we supposed to do?

[Trialbyfire]

Synopsis: Big NO, NO.

 

Look, I believe that those who do wrong pay for it. Not always in the here and now, but they do pay for it.

 

Most of the serial cheaters Ive met in my life, hate themselves so much that it is almost heartwrenching. I am sorry to say that this is particularly true for the females. You cant walk through life with a total disregard for the feelings of others and not have an issue inside.

That would be Karma not the Bible. Btw, not all denominations of Christianity believe in the fire and brimstone of hell.

 

As for serial cheaters, oh, how well I know about how they walk around hating themselves. But...it's not my problem unless I choose to help a serial cheater.

 

Sorry thats just way too much math for my brain. Besides I thought to negatives multiplied together create a positive?

Well played.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Geez, finally made it to the end.

 

What I wanted to comment on is the use and over use of "let he who is without sin..." Geez Annabelle I really just assumed you knew no better but did you just say you were the child of a pastor, then you KNOW the story and it's meanings. Am I correct??? The point was if you repent and "sin no more" then you are forgiven. If I remember correctly the whore would burned along with those who sat in judgement of her. Also, is not judging people who for judging any worse than judging people who are delibrately breaking commandments? And if you are going to hold others to certain verses which you quite wrongly claim not to pertain to yourself then are you not as impressed with the other verses or do they just not meet your agenda.

 

Go ahead and drop your pocket change into the donation box at McDonald's or 7-11 if it makes you feel better. Just don't expect the rest of us to frigging canonize you over it.

Now that was the best post of the night.

[Touche]

A little of both.

 

I too wonder how the OPs so easily lump the betrayed into the same pot as the cheaters. Is it because they are both married and both decided to stay FOR WHATEVER REASONS?

 

What does the BS's reasons for staying have to do with the OP's reasons for cheating with the WS? Nothing at all.

 

Why do the OPs always have to try (poorly too, I might add) to make the BS in some way responsible for the A, the outcome of the A, or their own actions?

 

Baffling. Really.

 

Yup..couldn't agree more.

[Trialbyfire]

Him .

 

And for what it's worth, the Biblical references were primarily to show where my own point of view comes from. I have no desire to impose them on others, but they are infinitely relevant when trying to examine why someone does what they do, especially if they are important to them. When others questioned my understanding is how religion as a whole got dragged into the discussion.

 

TNM

My apologies on gender mis-identity. We both have different perspectives of infidelity/adultery and organized religion in general so we can leave it at that. My perspective is from the side of direct collateral damage (a conflict of terms, I know).

[halfarock]

As I said, some people feel that vows are meaningless and don't believe in either taking them or adhering to them.

I for one.

[Trialbyfire]

Ok, so what's the bottom line then? We're talking about good people who have made bad mistakes, right? So what will make everyone happy here? Should we just look the other way and tell everyone how good they are deep down? Is that what we're supposed to do? Forgive? Is it our place to forgive? Is it?

 

What's the right thing to do here in this forum?

 

We're not supposed to judge. We're not supposed to point out where others have gone wrong. We're not supposed to dwell on where we've gone wrong. Then what the hell? What the hell are we supposed to do?

:lmao:

 

Sit pretty, be seen but not heard, that's what good little wives do.