Open To Receive....Bring it on!!

[Trialbyfire]

I for one.

That is your choice and preference but sad to say, you will cause collateral damage and simply not care.

[Cobra_X30]

That would be Karma not the Bible. Btw, not all denominations of Christianity believe in the fire and brimstone of hell.

 

As for serial cheaters, oh, how well I know about how they walk around hating themselves. But...it's not my problem unless I choose to help a serial cheater.

 

 

Well played.

 

Well, I happen to believe all the worlds religions come from one God... mine. So, it would make sense that some ideas would look similar. I have a few choice words for those who think we get to do whatever and escape the fires of judgement.

 

I'm warning you now. I can be infectious. One day you will just wake up wondering what I have to say!

[Tsuki no Michi]

In order to follow the rule, one must always define the terms such as judgment in the same fashion. To only take bits and pieces of the Bible to utilize when it becomes advantageous to self, doesn't make sense to me. As you know, I've fallen away.

 

I know, and I'm not trying to impose anything on you. I would say that you misunderstand my posts then if you think I am trying to take only those sections of the Bible that are advantageous to me. I know very well what the negative sections say. I do think that the message of forgiveness, which was the crux of my original post is infinitely more effective at creating a harmonious and loving society than one based on laws and punishments. *THAT* is why I focus on the areas that I do, not only to atone for my own sins the only fashion I can, but to try and help others in a positive manner find a way out of their personal despair. Regardless how you look at it, judging anyone is not positive, it's negative because it eliminates hope. Forgiveness on the other hand is never negative, it is always positive *because* it gives the recipient hope by the showing of love. For *me* that's important because the last commandment Christ gave us was "Love one another." Someone else said that love is a choice. In my opinion loving unconditionally even when someone hurts you is also a choice. I know not everyone will make that decision, but if they did I think the world would be a better place. Isn't that what we all say we want anyway?

 

TNM

[Cobra_X30]

I for one.

 

Oh halfarock... I have often been tempted to be snarky and mean to you. Even now I resist. Instead... I wish you the best, and just know... I have to be as close to your opposite as possible.

[NoIDidn't]

Not trying to add to the religious debate much, but I did want to add this.

 

Everyone that hangs their hat on the "judge not lest ye be judged" verse misses its entire point and context. Post after post there are complaints about someone being judgmental, when the person posting such has just passed a judgment themselves. Still judging whether you think so, or not.

 

But my point is this on judging. The "judge not" verse comes from Matthew 7:1. In that same chapter, Jesus goes on to say that we will know people by their fruit Matthew 7:16 - 18. He says that a good tree cannot have evil (his words) fruit and an evil tree cannot have good fruit. We will know a person's character by the *fruit* of their life and lifestyle. Discerning the type of person you are dealing with based on their actions is not judgment, its checking out the fruit.

 

Let's apply that to people in affairs, the WS and the OP. Is being in an affair a "good" fruit, or an "evil" fruit?

 

1 Corinthians 11:31 states that if we judge ourselves (take responsibility for our own actions and admit our own depravity - rather than claim to be so charitable in the midst of it) we will not be judged.

 

Not a preachers daughter, but a granddaughter, neice, cousin, and many others. Doesn't mean anyone knows anything about the bible if they think they can catch it by osmosis from family members. Easy to be a hearer, not so easy to be a doer.

 

I'm done. No more bible talk from me on the forum, feel free to PM though.

[Trialbyfire]

Well, I happen to believe all the worlds religions come from one God... mine. So, it would make sense that some ideas would look similar. I have a few choice words for those who think we get to do whatever and escape the fires of judgement.

 

I'm warning you now. I can be infectious. One day you will just wake up wondering what I have to say!

Hmmm...one God, your God. I could get into the discussion of requesting scientific proof that your God or any God exists.

 

So I can make fun of it?

[Cobra_X30]

hee hee ... doesn't work that way. Don't enter in to a biblical debate with a pastor's daughter. I could talk you in circles for hours.

 

A pastors daughter eh? You realize that just explains so much.

[Trialbyfire]

I know, and I'm not trying to impose anything on you. I would say that you misunderstand my posts then if you think I am trying to take only those sections of the Bible that are advantageous to me. I know very well what the negative sections say. I do think that the message of forgiveness, which was the crux of my original post is infinitely more effective at creating a harmonious and loving society than one based on laws and punishments. *THAT* is why I focus on the areas that I do, not only to atone for my own sins the only fashion I can, but to try and help others in a positive manner find a way out of their personal despair. Regardless how you look at it, judging anyone is not positive, it's negative because it eliminates hope. Forgiveness on the other hand is never negative, it is always positive *because* it gives the recipient hope by the showing of love. For *me* that's important because the last commandment Christ gave us was "Love one another." Someone else said that love is a choice. In my opinion loving unconditionally even when someone hurts you is also a choice. I know not everyone will make that decision, but if they did I think the world would be a better place. Isn't that what we all say we want anyway?

 

TNM

In order for everyone to love each other unconditionally, there must be complete altruism in the world. If you believe that the entire human race is able to do this, that is your perogative. Myself, in reference to infidelity/adultery, I've seen enough to know that there is no such thing as true altruism. As I've stated to another member, even Mother Teresa had her needs.

[Touche]

:lmao:

 

Sit pretty, be seen but not heard, that's what good little wives do.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was SO confused! I will hold my tongue now lest I be judged for judging.

[Trialbyfire]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was SO confused! I will hold my tongue now lest I be judged for judging.

Sorry, I passed a judgement on what good little wives should be. Forgive me, I have erred.

[Tomcat33]

Thank you for that. I always think it helps to remember wise quotes because they are what seems to stick with you when you need them.

 

 

You have no idea how true that is for me. My marriage failed long before I met my MW. It failed because I lost faith in it. I lost faith in God for a period somewhere along the way as well and regretably I still have a long way to go to regain it. I will tell you this, I have *never* in all my life felt so horrible as when I lost faith in things I had put up to be pedestals in my life. I promised myself I would never get a divorce after what happened to my parents, yet I ended up doing just that, and by my own actions. I promised myself I would never be in a relationship with a married woman, but I am. I promised myself I would always put others' welfare above my own, yet here I am putting my own above those of my MW's family. Who am I to destroy what they have built, what they build their own expectations for life upon? And yet I find I cannot help but stand by her as long as she will have me. Why that is I don't know. Perhaps some flaw in my character, perhaps some dark selfishness I never knew existed within me. I truly don't know and I have done no end of soul-searching about it.

 

Like everyone else in this situation I know I find ways to justify my actions. It doesn't make it right, I know. And realistically if God punishes me for it then I deserve no less than whatever rage or vengeance He wishes to visit upon me. I have many theories about why God would allow us to get into this situation if it were so horrible, but the only answer I ever get is the same one He gives to those who ask why the innocent suffer: His silence. I try, but sometimes I wonder if all this that's currently happening is merely to test my faith, to see if I can bring myself to trust God fully again. I don't know. All I know is that I am in a dark place and I am trusting that He will lead me out of it in a way that hurts the fewest people. The hope in me wants to believe it's possible. The despair in me fears it isn't.

 

 

 

Thanks. Though I admit I'd trade in a heartbeat any eloquence I may have to heal those I have hurt.

 

TNM

 

 

Tsuki you brought tears to my eyes, honestly touched me with this post. I can totally understand that way you feel what you express and how lost one feels when darkness is upon us. I was in a very similar place due to some personal issues I was dealt to handle three years ago. Sometimes we look for answers when the the anwer is simply to believe. I know that sounds so twisted, and it is next to impossible to do when you feel that you are in that dark place it can be next to impossible to come out. there is no way out unless we find a new way out. It takes a process it takes breaking the pattern by doing something that is not in our character, it takes a real leap of faith in OURSELVES.

 

I think it happens in steps, we need to become aware of what is causing us pain in order to stop it.

 

you know I read another very interesting quote the other day it said:

 

"If men will not act for themselves, what will they do when the benefit of their effort is for all?"

 

 

really think of that and see how it can apply to you. and it's not to be interpreted in a selfish superficial way like some might do, REALLY think about what that means to you. I know what it meant to me when I read it.

 

 

Thank you, TC. Your other post above touched me. I feel for you. I really do. But I don't really think of you (or Annabelle) as true OW's. I don't. The man was separated. I myself was separated when I met my H. You had faith and there's nothing wrong with that. How could you know that it would turn out as it did? And I didn't go back yet and read your backstory but I'm assuming he wasn't living with his wife when you got involved?

 

We all take our chances at love. Sometimes we get it right. Most of the time we get it wrong. But there are so many signs that can protect us and show us when it's not meant to be. I know I'm a pain in the ass with my talk of "signs" and "red flags" but it's so true.

 

It doesn't matter how much we think something is meant to be and how much we love the other person..we have to keep our wits about us in order to not get hurt. And in order to not hurt others as well.

 

TC, I'm sure that you've learned from this. You and others, including myself, can point out to others what to look for. I mean what to avoid. Can't you?

 

You can have what your sibling has. You can. You're worthy of that.

 

Well I appreciate that you don't see me as the "typical"OW woman but I am not even sure what you mean by that because I was inndeed in some respects the OW at least to his W whom had no idea about us, I was the OW. If you mean that I was not the OW in the sense of the evil tempress cartoon fantasy a lot people tend to stereotype well yes that is not me, I was neither out to destroy anyone nor was I out to usurp something that belonged to someone else. I believe in free will we all have it and we are all adults and exercise it, he had an unfinished commitment and he lied to me and assured me it was finished when in fact it was messier than what he and I had. THAT I cannot be held responsible for, and I have told his W I was sorry for the pain all this caused for whatever it was worth since I was never out to hurt HER, I didn't even know her. I just put trust in the same man she chose to put trust on.

 

You are preaching to the converted Touche. But thank you for the bour of confidence and kind words it is nice to see. I know my worth this had little to do with how I see myself or what I think I am worth. I just met someone who I thought was what I had been looking for all my life, it just happened to be the worst possible timing and I took a chance on somethng that had the odds against me but in love there are always odds against us. I for once went with something I had faith in it felt right in many respects despite on how wrong it may have been and believe me I was well aware of what I was getting myself into in that I knew it would not be easy, I just put a lot of faith on somene that didn't have much faith in himself beyond his very powerful words and I have restructured my take on trust or faith if you will, hence this experience.

[Touche]

Sorry, I passed a judgement on what good little wives should be. Forgive me, I have erred.

 

I will try not to judge you on your error but it will be hard as I'm human and prone to judging others. I will try to be a good little wife now and reach for the Golden Penis. Night all. I fully expect this to be completely figured out when I wake up in the morning.

[Trialbyfire]

I will try not to judge you on your error but it will be hard as I'm human and prone to judging others. I will try to be a good little wife now and reach for the Golden Penis. Night all. I fully expect this to be completely figured out when I wake up in the morning.

Now that was pure evil and you know why. Good night.

[Tsuki no Michi]

But my point is this on judging. The "judge not" verse comes from Matthew 7:1.

 

I was quoting from James myself.

 

Let's apply that to people in affairs, the WS and the OP. Is being in an affair a "good" fruit, or an "evil" fruit?

 

The obvious answer is that it's an "evil" fruit. I think perhaps that we miss the point here though. *ALL* of us produce "evil" fruit of some kind at one time or another. It's the nature of fallen humanity. If the affair is the only evil fruit in someone's life, does that make them any more evil than those who display other evil fruits such as pride? How about those who display cruelty, neglect, pride, anger, etc. on a regular basis, but don't violate the "law" of committing adultery? Because they are "obedient" does that make them a better person? Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to justify the affair in any way as good, though I personally believe there are situations and instances that complicate things and make them not so black and white. The difference is I admit my sin, I accept responsibility for it, and I will accept any punishment I am given for it. The reason I think people use the judge not quote is simple, they don't believe the commenter to be as upright and perfect as he/she would claim. From personal experience with a variety of people on three continents I would have to say I also am skeptical at best.

 

1 Corinthians 11:31 states that if we judge ourselves (take responsibility for our own actions and admit our own depravity - rather than claim to be so charitable in the midst of it) we will not be judged.

 

I know far too well what it's like to judge oneself. I am a far harsher judge of my own actions because I know my own motives than anyone else could hope to be.

 

I'm done. No more bible talk from me on the forum, feel free to PM though.

 

I would have, but I don't have PM capability. No matter

 

TNM

[Tomcat33]

Says its wrong.

 

Also says a ton for other stuff that we are all guilty of is wrong too. Including judgement.

 

 

Well judging by some of the harpooning that goes on in this forum alone we sit on a plethora of sins but of course that's overlooked because the real sinners are those who break up happy relationships. So happy so devine that at least one of the people involved were so miserable be it with themselves or the general state of the rel. that they allowed their hearts to open up to a complete other person.

 

Here's a newsflash for all those oblivious people who claim they had no clue their rels were in trouble or unhappy, clue in to this one:

If one partner is unhappy chances are the other partner will also be, rels are symbiotic unions that thrive off of each other, one's mood or state CANNOT go unnotice to such point that the other won't be affected. On the contrary to that there would be even deeper problems to look at and that would be, just HOW out of tune could two people be with one another to not know that there was something troubling the other's wellbeing? Talk about sins, and living selfishly.

 

Sometimes people simply don't want to see.

[halfarock]

I think, after skipping 5 or 6 pages of arguing, that this is what the post is about. The MM mentioned is automatically referred to as dirt, garbage, and usually the knowledgeable OW is a man-stealing, immoral whore.

Yes but if you read enough of Touche's posts you'll see that everyone who disagrees with her is dirt, garbage, bad character, blah, blah, blah.

 

For awhile she had as her signature something about liberals hating people, while conservatives just hate certain acts. Then she goes on to prove that she hates the act, the person, and anyone who disagrees with her. I guess her perfect relationship with her perfect husband brings out her nastiness.

[Tsuki no Michi]

In order for everyone to love each other unconditionally, there must be complete altruism in the world. If you believe that the entire human race is able to do this, that is your perogative. Myself, in reference to infidelity/adultery, I've seen enough to know that there is no such thing as true altruism. As I've stated to another member, even Mother Teresa had her needs.

 

It may not exist in the world, but does that relieve us of our responsibility to try? Regardless what religion you follow (if any), they all have at their heart a desire for peace. I presume there is the possibility that humanity doesn't really want peace, but if we will not try, then who will? One thing is certain, if we don't try, we will never achieve it. After all, "you always miss 100% of the shots you don't take" (see, I can provide a non-Bible quote once in a while ).

 

TNM

[Trialbyfire]

It may not exist in the world, but does that relieve us of our responsibility to try? Regardless what religion you follow (if any), they all have at their heart a desire for peace. I presume there is the possibility that humanity doesn't really want peace, but if we will not try, then who will? One thing is certain, if we don't try, we will never achieve it. After all, "you always miss 100% of the shots you don't take" (see, I can provide a non-Bible quote once in a while ).

 

TNM

Peace is not synonymous with happiness or goodness. You can have peace but you can also have starvation, selfishness and abuse in the world.

[halfarock]

Why would God create you without the ability to follow the commandments that he sets? Doesnt that just sound silly to you?

Yes. Every time I hear someone talk about a god as if it were real, I find it silly.

[Touche]

I think perhaps that we miss the point here though. *ALL* of us produce "evil" fruit of some kind at one time or another.

 

Excuse me, but last time I checked I didn't produce any evil fruit. I really didn't. I checked. ( I may have produced a vegetable that was a little off though) So please speak for yourself on that, k? Thanks.

 

And stop calling me evil, TBF! I don't produce any evil fruit you know. (See above:p)

 

And TC, no, I don't think I'm preaching to the choir at all. I said you were not an OW because I didn't think you were. You seem upset that I didn't categorize you that way though. Do you want me to say that I think you are? Of course I don't think of an OW as an "evil temptress"...well not quite anyway.

 

But I'm confused as to your definition of an OW. To me it's someone who KNOWINGLY enters into a relationship with a married (living with spouse) person. You said he was separated but never answered me about whether he was still living with the wife. If he was then yes, you were a true OW. If not, then no. You weren't an OW.

 

Why am I getting the feeling though that you're upset that I don't view you as an OW? Isn't that odd? And no, I don't think OW's are evil temptresses. I just think of them as naive, available women for men who have no morals. Any questions?

[NoIDidn't]

TMN

 

I, for one, can't wait until you get PM capabilities. You sound like a really interesting and sincere person. And an avid bible reader/studier. Me too!!!

 

I totally agree with you on your reasons for why you think people use the "judge not" quote so much. They think it knocks the other person down a notch. But it only shows that they are grasping for straws, IMHO.

 

You are also right on the fruit convo that I started. We ALL display evil fruit at one point or another. But the trick is what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery - go and stop doing what you were doing that was wrong. The minute we start putting out more evil fruit than good fruit, we are in truly bad condition.

 

I will say this too. A person that is willing to engage in adultery has already exhibited the biggies that you listed. No one goes into adultery having NEVER sinned before. Pride - "I deserve to be happy". Cruelty - "I don't care if she/he gets hurt as long as I get what I want". Selfishness - "Do unto thy neighbor before thy neighbor does unto you". Coveting - "I want that [person] more, their spouse just doesn't appreciate them or treat them like I do". The list goes on and on. I am not saying that people that don't commit adultery don't have those traits. We do. We just use them in things like gambling, gossiping, and false piety or humility.

 

Believe me, like you, I am very, very, very hard on myself. I am always willing, sometimes reluctantly, to look into the mirror that is my own heart. Willing to admit fault or wrong-doing. Willing to ask for forgiveness when I have harmed another. Willing to accept my lumps for the wrong too. I believe in taking responsibility for my own motives and actions to the extreme.

 

Well, I guess I will have to wait until you can PM.

[halfarock]

Well, I happen to believe all the worlds religions come from one God... mine.

Even Taoism?

[squeak]

halfarock when you wrote "I am one" were you referring to not believing in getting married or not honoring your commitment when married?

 

Just curious

[Touche]

Yes but if you read enough of Touche's posts you'll see that everyone who disagrees with her is dirt, garbage, bad character, blah, blah, blah.

 

For awhile she had as her signature something about liberals hating people, while conservatives just hate certain acts. Then she goes on to prove that she hates the act, the person, and anyone who disagrees with her. I guess her perfect relationship with her perfect husband brings out her nastiness.

 

WTF? Where did THAT come from? I never said any thing of the sort. Get a grip will you?

 

You're a liberal aren't you?

 

Oh and I never said I had a perfect relationship or a perfect husband. Where are you getting this from? Sorry you think I'm nasty. Ignore me then if you don't like me. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Wow...very interesting, indeed.

 

Oh and Squeak...I think half a rock (brain?) doesn't believe in being faithful. Why else would he be attacking someone who believes in honoring a commitment?

[Tomcat33]

Excuse me, but last time I checked I didn't produce any evil fruit. I really didn't. I checked. ( I may have produced a vegetable that was a little off though) So please speak for yourself on that, k? Thanks.

 

And stop calling me evil, TBF! I don't produce any evil fruit you know. (See above:p)

 

And TC, no, I don't think I'm preaching to the choir at all. I said you were not an OW because I didn't think you were. You seem upset that I didn't categorize you that way though. Do you want me to say that I think you are? Of course I don't think of an OW as an "evil temptress"...well not quite anyway.

 

But I'm confused as to your definition of an OW. To me it's someone who KNOWINGLY enters into a relationship with a married (living with spouse) person. You said he was separated but never answered me about whether he was still living with the wife. If he was then yes, you were a true OW. If not, then no. You weren't an OW.

 

Why am I getting the feeling though that you're upset that I don't view you as an OW? Isn't that odd? And no, I don't think OW's are evil temptresses. I just think of them as naive, available women for men who have no morals. Any questions?

 

No no I was not upset, just clarifying that yes I was with someone that was not living with his W but in all purpose of the word I was still a secret from her while I was with him. he was not living with her, he was living in his own apartment when we started going out. BUT we did meet while he was still living at home, we broke off the contact when it was getting emotionally too involved and he proceeded to seperate and seek me out once he was free to date. Our rel was as public as it gets but in many respects I still felt like an OW at times simply because I knew he hid me from her and that was not easy for me to cope with, hence all the problems we had.