Open To Receive....Bring it on!!

[Tomcat33]

Squeak - that is a VERY interesting thought, really got me with that one.

 

Is that not what true unconditional love is, what a child has for a parent or what a parent has for a child? The "settling for scraps" as many like to call it, is that not what unconditional love is in some respects?

 

 

oh and for the record on my own comment...

 

I personallly don't believe unconditional love can exist in the realm of romantic love. I think it can only happen in a familial type love and I would even go as far as saying almost strictly between a parent and child and vice versa, oh and with pets.

[Tomcat33]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

 

Thank goodness that got a laugh, last thing I wanted to do was cause a political war in this thread, we covered sex and religion that was the last one left. :laugh:

[Cobra_X30]

Analogy…

I have worked for a company for 5 years; I do my job, turn assignments in on time, had my “good” moments, and had my “bad”. There’s a new position opening up, I just know I’ll get it, I have showed my devotion to this company for so long, I just know it’s mine.

 

Another person in the office wants this position too, but they have only worked here for 3 months, can you believe they would even apply, I mean, why? This person should just step down, sure they do a great job, but only for three months, they don’t even know the whole picture of the company, who cares how bad they want it, it’s mine!!

 

Now my boss, can you believe them, how would he/she even consider the new employee.

 

Who’s fault is this anyways (mine, for not trying “harder”, the OP for thinking they can just step in my way, my boss for thinking what’s best for the his needs)

 

Are any of us bad, any of us good??

 

Great analogy... actually the best so far. However, imagine the job is already yours, and your boss is thinking about canning you!

 

I think that fits the situation a little better.

 

Yes our minds are a mix of bad and good, but it is only our actions that define us as such!

[RealityCheck]

oh and for the record on my own comment...

 

I personallly don't believe unconditional love can exist in the realm of romantic love. I think it can only happen in a familial type love and I would even go as far as saying almost strictly between a parent and child and vice versa, oh and with pets.

 

I swear sometimes you are in my head!....lol

 

For me, I couldn't agree with you more.

[Trialbyfire]

NDP stands for New Democratic Party, Canadian political party. they are kind of like the halfway house for the Conservatives and the Libs. :laugh:

You appear to not understand Canadian politics. Completely off the mark about what this party stands for. You've been sent back to grade 1, to start again.

[herenow]

Again, not enough time to read this whole thread, but I do have one question. Why is it important to have a thread dedicated to convincing people that OW are not bad people? Isn't it enough that you and the people you care about believe it? At a certain point I have to say "thou protests too much".

[Trialbyfire]

And manipulative too, dangerous stuff. (referring to the NPD post above)

Yes, it's the best mind-screw one could ask for.

 

As long as you don't agree to take on his responsibilities and needs, you can recover. You can also help, as a friend, but not as an emotional resource for him to drain.

[RealityCheck]

Again, not enough time to read this whole thread, but I do have one question. Why is it important to have a thread dedicated to convincing people that OW are not bad people? Isn't it enough that you and the people you care about believe it? At a certain point I have to say "thou protests too much".

 

Hmmmm....I've read through most of this thread...I don't recall seeing "convince" anywhere.

 

Perspectives, opinions, debate....absolutely!

"Convince"....nope don't believe I have!

[annabelle75]

Again, not enough time to read this whole thread, but I do have one question. Why is it important to have a thread dedicated to convincing people that OW are not bad people? Isn't it enough that you and the people you care about believe it? At a certain point I have to say "thou protests too much".

 

Because its their forum and they want a thread about how they are not defined by the affair. It wasn't trying to convinve anyone of anything. It was an empowering statement.

 

Not every thread here is directed toward people like you. Believe it or not, most of the threads here are directed toward the actual OM/OW. Go figure. :shrugs:

[Cobra_X30]

Read my post #244 if you have doubts as to what I meant, and if you think my expectations of a rel as STILL unrealistic then we will have to go deeper into it.

 

As to inspecting my needs they have and always been basic ones, communication, understanding, respect, affection, honesty, seduction, fun, companionship, friendship, reciprocation...etc. what we ALL want. Now my experience has lead me to see that my needs have also been known to change and evolve as I have changed in my own life and due to circumstances. And I have to make it my duty to make that known to my partner, because yes my needs may be basic but I may discover new and evolved needs along the way. I would expect the same from my partner but understand that he may not feel the same way. SO I try to make it my duty to dig deeper when things don't feel right. I can say in any of my last 3 rels I have let things slide to a point of feeling comfortably numb, I did that once and never again. I really have learned from my mistakes.

 

I guess you just learn the hard way that rels are always a work in

progress some people are not cut out to work hard.

 

I am sorry I could not locate your # 244 post. Is there a search engine I could use?

 

No matter, your approach is very reasonable. Some of the needs you listed. Can you go a period of time without them in a relationship? Fun for example, is it possible that during the course of a relationship, you may be able to forgo the fun, due not to your circumstances, but your partners? Perhaps this is what you refer to as evloving needs.

 

Would it also be fair to say that your list of needs is fairly set, and that your needs do not change so much as the priorities of your needs do?

 

You are very correct that many people to not put the effort into relationships that they should.

[Tomcat33]

There is a saying "the only thing that stays the same is everything changes"

 

When two people initially meet their "love" standard at the time can be the same. Things change for whatever reason and in those ever changing phases so does a person. If the two people do not grow together in those phases the dynamic and/or standard changes as well.

 

 

YES!!! and I can atest to that happening to me with my exMM. We stopped growing and the dynamic totally changed. I was paralized by my fears and he was paralized due to...well only he knows...

[Tomcat33]

You appear to not understand Canadian politics. Completely off the mark about what this party stands for. You've been sent back to grade 1, to start again.

 

 

Please enlighten me how I missed the mark on MY views on what the NDP stands for. :laugh: this I GOTTA hear/see!

[squeak]

Squeak - that is a VERY interesting thought, really got me with that one.

 

Is that not what true unconditional love is, what a child has for a parent or what a parent has for a child? The "settling for scraps" as many like to call it, is that not what unconditional love is in some respects?

 

Wel thanks Tomcat, if I may get on my dimestore psych couch and carry that thought---

 

If you take the assumption that we gravitate to reenacting the dynamics of our childhood in the form of a mate (AKA dating your parent you had most issues with) that is done because:

a) it is what we are familiar with

b) by unconsciously subjecting ourselves to that which had such a hold on us , it is forcing ourselves to become acclimated to it and therefore even adjust our mate once "ideal" acclimation is reached.

 

I think that is pertinent in that thought above too, but I am not sure beyond that initial assumption , but it does seem something is being worked out (attempting to maybe transform a sporadic source of affection to a full time one through much emotional duress?)

 

If anyone thinks that sounds false feel free to say so, I understand no one gets into it wanting to be hurt, but still the dynamic exists from the get go.

[Trialbyfire]

There is a saying "the only thing that stays the same is everything changes"

 

When two people initially meet their "love" standard at the time can be the same. Things change for whatever reason and in those ever changing phases so does a person. If the two people do not grow together in those phases the dynamic and/or standard changes as well.

Perhaps applicable to other relationships but not to my own. It's not as if an NPDer has any control over his "love" standard unless he is aware of what he is.

 

In reference to other relationships, there are graduating levels of selfishness.

[Trialbyfire]

Please enlighten me how I missed the mark on MY views on what the NDP stands for. :laugh: this I GOTTA hear/see!

NDP is about as far left as you can go. Conservatives are the far right. Liberals are somewhere in the middle. Compared to American political parties, all three major parties are left or dead on center. If you can comprehend this, you may advance to grade 2.

[herenow]

Because its their forum and they want a thread about how they are not defined by the affair. It wasn't trying to convinve anyone of anything. It was an empowering statement.

 

Not every thread here is directed toward people like you. Believe it or not, most of the threads here are directed toward the actual OM/OW. Go figure. :shrugs:

 

If this thread is directed at OW, then why the need for this line from the OP:

 

"Every OW I have met had their own reasons for becoming an OW. One thing that is certain is that these woman are amazing people to know despite what people think of an OW’s mind space. Many OW’s would give their last dollar to a beggar."

 

Why would an OW need to tell another OW such a thing?

[annabelle75]

If this thread is directed at OW, then why the need for this line from the OP:

 

"Every OW I have met had their own reasons for becoming an OW. One thing that is certain is that these woman are amazing people to know despite what people think of an OW’s mind space. Many OW’s would give their last dollar to a beggar."

 

Why would an OW need to tell another OW such a thing?

 

Ever had a friend tell you that you are a good person? Now you are just being silly. This thread held no ill intent towards anyone. You just find it offensive that on OW could consider themsleves to be good people at heart.

[squeak]

It's not as if an NPDer has any control over his "love" standard unless he is aware of what he is.

 

 

explain please? I don't completely understand the "aware of what he is"

[Tomcat33]

Read my post #244 if you have doubts as to what I meant, and if you think my expectations of a rel as STILL unrealistic then we will have to go deeper into it.

 

As to inspecting my needs they have and always been basic ones, communication, understanding, respect, affection, honesty, seduction, fun, companionship, friendship, reciprocation...etc. what we ALL want. Now my experience has lead me to see that my needs have also been known to change and evolve as I have changed in my own life and due to circumstances. And I have to make it my duty to make that known to my partner, because yes my needs may be basic but I may discover new and evolved needs along the way. I would expect the same from my partner but understand that he may not feel the same way. SO I try to make it my duty to dig deeper when things don't feel right. I can say in any of my last 3 rels I have let things slide to a point of feeling comfortably numb, I did that once and never again. I really have learned from my mistakes.

 

I guess you just learn the hard way that rels are always a work in

progress some people are not cut out to work hard.

 

I am sorry I could not locate your # 244 post. Is there a search engine I could use?

 

No matter, your approach is very reasonable. Some of the needs you listed. Can you go a period of time without them in a relationship? Fun for example, is it possible that during the course of a relationship, you may be able to forgo the fun, due not to your circumstances, but your partners? Perhaps this is what you refer to as evloving needs.

 

Would it also be fair to say that your list of needs is fairly set, and that your needs do not change so much as the priorities of your needs do?

 

You are very correct that many people to not put the effort into relationships that they should.

 

sorry I didn't get the first part re the post #244 search engine!?!? (I was not being sarcastic when I said check out post #244 I just didn't want to retype it all out again...)

 

 

Yeah I would def agree that my needs are pretty much set and I want to make very clear that in no way shape or form expect to have ALL those needs met every single day of the time I spend in a particular rel. (well honesty would be nice 24/7 but we all tell a little white lie here or there so I take in stride) however I can also say that I can go through periods in my life where I may put more emphasis on certain needs over others depending of what I may be going through outside of the rel. But that's where communication and proactivity come in to play. perception and intuition are not a bad thing to have either, and I have learned to listen to the little voice when it is trying to tell me something.

 

can I do without fun? honestly I can only be deprived from it for for short periods of time, you know something believe it or not that's one of the biggest indicators to me that something is not right, when it doesn't feel fun anymore. I don't mean day to day, I mean overall.

[Trialbyfire]

explain please? I don't completely understand the "aware of what he is"

After learning about NPD through LS, I had him go to therapy because he fit the bill way too closely. His therapist agreed. Previous to this discovery, neither one of us had any awareness about this disorder.

[Cliche]

Why do the OPs always have to try (poorly too, I might add) to make the BS in some way responsible for the A, the outcome of the A, or their own actions?

Because it is a universal truism that nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

In my situation, MM, BS and I all bear responsibility for this. Whether it is clearly acknowledge or not doesn't matter. We all play a part in this.

[Trialbyfire]

Because it is a universal truism that nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

In my situation, MM, BS and I all bear responsibility for this. Whether it is clearly acknowledge or not doesn't matter. We all play a part in this.

Wrong. You and the MM played a game with no knowledge to the betrayed spouse. She was dragged in as collateral damage.

 

If OW/OM want to separate their affair as between the two of them, you must separate the marriage too. What happens between the betrayed and the wayward, has nothing to do with the affair itself. Logical progression.

[Trialbyfire]

To expand on the marital breakdown aspect, none of you is aware if there was a loss of intimacy due to the WS not providing sufficiently to meet the needs of the betrayed.

 

It's all the chicken and the egg theory. It takes two to tango, to breakdown a relationship.

[RealityCheck]

Perhaps applicable to other relationships but not to my own. It's not as if an NPDer has any control over his "love" standard unless he is aware of what he is.

 

In reference to other relationships, there are graduating levels of selfishness.

 

In the case of the NPDer I agree!

 

I had the NPDer experience. Nasty!

[herenow]

Ever had a friend tell you that you are a good person? Now you are just being silly. This thread held no ill intent towards anyone. You just find it offensive that on OW could consider themsleves to be good people at heart.

 

No, I actually don't have any problem with how people feel about themselves. As a matter of fact I think how you feel about yourself is very important. That's my point. As long as you are happy with how you live your life, who am I to tell you that you should do anything different?

 

OW can feel however they want, I'm not offended at all. Why would I be? If you feel a need to tell OW that they are good people, so be it. If they don't already know that about themselves, then by all means tell them.