It's all about belief and faith right?

[UsernameRemoved]

Let me start by making this clear, I'm not religious in any way.

Religions are supposed to be based on personal beliefs and faiths as far as I can gather so this leads to my confussion... Why do so many religious people try to force their beliefs down everyone elses throat. Take the member here; 'lonelybird', always talking about her beliefs as facts and she's not the only one, just the final straw before I simply had to ask.

For those who do it, why?

For those who don't, does it annoy you too?

[directx]

It's annoys the crap out of me.

I am with you.

If someone asks, fine. But if not, keep it to yourself.

[UsernameRemoved]

Thank god I'm not alone on this, pun intended.

[lonelybird]

Because I am trying to save you from hell? that's enough?

[quankanne]

people have different approaches, but it all comes down to sharing the Good News, that God loves you.

 

some folks are comfortable in their faith and makes no bones about sharing it. Others of us tend to keep our faith to ourselves, not because we're guarding it or ashamed of it, but because it's a very personal thing, though we will share when asked. There's really no right or wrong way of evangelizing, just different ways.

 

'lonelybird', always talking about her beliefs as facts and she's not the only one

 

because we are confident in our belief in our relationship with God, we find it very "real," the same way we accept other facts of life, like the theory of gravity isn't going to fail or that the sun will rise every day. These facts are physical, whereas our "facts" about God are spiritual. ¿Entiendes?

[disgracian]

It all stems from the fundamental misconception whereby somebody assumes that, because a belief feels right to them or helps them sleep at night, it necessarily must be the same for every other human being on Earth.

 

If you examine the full repercussions of this folly then it becomes quite clear that it's responsible for a great deal of human suffering. They would obviously resent somebody of a different faith preaching to them, yet they do it without hesitation and without the golden rule (do unto others) ringing in their ears. There's a particularly heinous double-standard right from the word go.

 

It all spirals from that one bit of narrow-minded, self-centred thinking that seems so deeply embedded in human nature.

 

So no, you're not alone. It annoys me too and it's something I dearly wish would cease. I'm all for sharing beliefs and exchanging ideas among willing participants, but unsolicited preaching is every bit as rude and objectionable as telemarketing. The fact that so many go on long after you tell them to stop betrays a total lack of respect and civility.

 

Cheers,

D.

[UsernameRemoved]

I think the thing bugs me the most about preachy religious types is that whenever I start talking about my beliefs in return I get accused of discrimination. I'm curious to see how the sides of this one stack up.

[JamesM]

I think the thing bugs me the most about preachy religious types is that whenever I start talking about my beliefs in return I get accused of discrimination. I'm curious to see how the sides of this one stack up.

 

Can you explain this more? What do you believe that makes it seem that YOU discriminate?

 

What it boils down to for those that believe that there is a heaven and a hell is...

 

If what they believe is true, then everyone must be warned of their final destination.

 

And if there is no God or eternity, then how did we get here and where are we going?

[pricillia]

I really don't think that OP is questioning the fact that there is or isn't a GOD

 

Just that in certian instances there is a overwhelming need to control and change someone's thinking to thier own and if that person tries to think for themself ie, religious beliefs different from most adamant people on the religious forum then basicly you are indeed going to hell.

 

Well the world and life does not work that way.

 

So to the OP although I try to understand why LB is so inept when it comes to other religions understand that when you create posts like this and talk about her beliefs you give her the power that she is looking for.

 

Peace

[JamesM]

Let me start by making this clear, I'm not religious in any way.

 

I guess I thought this meant she did not believe in a God, but I could be wrong. I do understand that she does not like people "forcing" their beliefs on her.

 

Just that in certian instances there is a overwhelming need to control and change someone's thinking to thier own and if that person tries to think for themself ie, religious beliefs different from most adamant people on the religious forum then basicly you are indeed going to hell.

 

If there is a heaven. then there is a hell. If one believes that there is no God and someone believes that there is, then logically, one is wrong.

 

But yes, there is way too much of the "I am right, you are wrong" mentality on issues that may not be so black and white.

[pricillia]

I hear you James.

 

Ok maybe OP is not religious, I am not religious although I do believe in GOD. I do not go to church I do not read the bible.

 

does that mean that I am not religious?

 

I guess OP should talk a little bit more on what they believe in.

[UsernameRemoved]

First, JamesM, I'm a GUY not a she. So here goes.

I don't believe in any supreme power or benign being, I don't believe that there is a heaven or hell and if I’m wrong about this I will go to hell. As for why I’m usually called discriminate, here are a couple of examples of things that usually get me in bother.

1. Adam and Eve, the opening argument, it is impossible for two people to reproduce to the extent of populating the Earth, its not a case of the numbers its just that when the first babies come along, even if they were incest believers they couldn’t produce perfect babies, they would be deformed if they ever survived pregnancy. The number needed to repopulate the Earth is high in the hundreds, so this even brings evidence that Noah, his three sons and their wives would still not be enough to repopulate the Earth without major deformities.

2. The Noah’s Arc story, the opening argument, if God killed all the people across the face of the Earth because they were sinners then how come in the modern world, with rapists, pedophiles, murderers, etc. God has made no attempt to wipe them all out again?

[JamesM]

First, JamesM, I'm a GUY not a she. So here goes.

I don't believe in any supreme power or benign being, I don't believe that there is a heaven or hell and if I’m wrong about this I will go to hell. As for why I’m usually called discriminate, here are a couple of examples of things that usually get me in bother.

1. Adam and Eve, the opening argument, it is impossible for two people to reproduce to the extent of populating the Earth, its not a case of the numbers its just that when the first babies come along, even if they were incest believers they couldn’t produce perfect babies, they would be deformed if they ever survived pregnancy. The number needed to repopulate the Earth is high in the hundreds, so this even brings evidence that Noah, his three sons and their wives would still not be enough to repopulate the Earth without major deformities.

2. The Noah’s Arc story, the opening argument, if God killed all the people across the face of the Earth because they were sinners then how come in the modern world, with rapists, pedophiles, murderers, etc. God has made no attempt to wipe them all out again?

 

 

Sorry, I truthfully do not know why I made that assumption.

 

1. Adam & Eve could make that many children. IF I read the Bible correctly, then they lived to be over 900 years old. If you give each couple six children starting with Adam and Eve...and for each of their children, then you have thousands of children by the time of the Flood...which was at least two thousand years after the Creation. I highly doubt that you believe the Bible to be perfect, but I will make that assumption for the sake of argument. Also, genetic deformities have resulted based on generations of children...not from one couple. And again, since Adam and Eve were created perfect as the world ("God saw all that HE made and it was good"), then they had no genetic deformities. These genetic deformities developed over time....much time. And again, the Bible states that all of Creation was perfect until sin entered into the world.

 

2. You are making the assumption that we are more evil than they were at the time of the Flood. From reading the Bible, this does not appear to be the case. It appears that we are AS evil...true. Also, since you seem to know something of the Bible, according to the Bible in the New Testament, God made a way of salvation for all sinners to reach Him via the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. He said in Genesis that He would not destroy the world again with a Flood, but He does say in Revelation that He will destroy the world with fire at the end of all time.

 

There are many, many theological discussions regarding your questions and many more similar questions, but unless we ARE God, I highly doubt we can understand why God does what HE does...unless HE has said why in the Bible.

 

Personally, I find it fascinating as to how the world began. As you seem to indicate....how the world began answers many of life's biggest questions.

 

I do know that many people believe in God and many do not. I also know that one's belief will not determine IF there is a God. One way or another it is a fact...God does or does not exist.

[burning 4 revenge]

Because I am trying to save you from hell? that's enough?

I like you and I'm an atheist.

The way I look at it is that you're doing what you believe is right.

 

The Christians I don't understand at all are the ones who claim to believe, but live in complete harmony with the secular world. That's why I understand why the radical Muslims do the things they do. If you really believe in these things then the zealous approach makes much more rational sense to me than living as if God doesn't exist.

[lonelybird]

I like you and I'm an atheist.

The way I look at it is that you're doing what you believe is right.

 

The Christians I don't understand at all are the ones who claim to believe, but live in complete harmony with the secular world. That's why I understand why the radical Muslims do the things they do. If you really believe in these things then the zealous approach makes much more rational sense to me than living as if God doesn't exist.

Thank you and I like you too

 

God is a living and wonderful God. Do we believers have difficult times? yes. I hope I can remember Joseph's story when I have such a time. Negative happenings in Joseph's life turned out to be parts of good plan, steps that God pushes us into right track. we feel like God doesn't care about us sometimes, but in fact, God cares about us all the time. just that we stand too close to our situations, that we cannot have a big picture.

 

I don't know others, but I stick to what Holy Spirit tell me and what Bible tell me

[disgracian]

And again, since Adam and Eve were created perfect as the world ("God saw all that HE made and it was good"), then they had no genetic deformities. These genetic deformities developed over time....much time.

You seem to have an odd notion of perfection. If they were genetically perfect, then no deformities would occur. Perfection does not beget imperfection, nay?

 

Cheers,

D.

[JamesM]

You seem to have an odd notion of perfection. If they were genetically perfect, then no deformities would occur. Perfection does not beget imperfection, nay?

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Reading the Bible, sin entered the world after Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command of not eating from the tree. It was not that they ate from the tree, but it was because they disobeyed God's command. At this point sin became intertwined in all of Creation. This is when the perfect Creation became imperfect. And then this is how over time genetic deformities became the "norm."

[disgracian]

I suppose I could ask how a 'perfect' creation could behave imperfectly and disobey in the first place, but that would take us down the tangent of no return. The point is that, taken literally, it's completely absurd and continues to amaze me that adults take it seriously.

 

Before two 'perfect' humans ate fruit from a magical tree after being deceived by a talking snake, there was no death and all animals were vegetarians and lived forever. Thereafter, all the lions, tigers and bears woke up and universally decided to eat other animals from now on.

 

Cheers,

D.

[JamesM]

I suppose I could ask how a 'perfect' creation could behave imperfectly and disobey in the first place, but that would take us down the tangent of no return. The point is that, taken literally, it's completely absurd and continues to amaze me that adults take it seriously.

 

Before two 'perfect' humans ate fruit from a magical tree after being deceived by a talking snake, there was no death and all animals were vegetarians and lived forever. Thereafter, all the lions, tigers and bears woke up and universally decided to eat other animals from now on.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

There are a lot of things in this world that seem absurd, but that doesn't make them less true. And my point is not to give my opinion, but I am arguing the Biblical viewpoint.

 

Adam...as I read in the Bible...was given a free will. Although he was perfect as was the Creation, he had a choice as the head of all future mankind to decide if he would obey God or disobey God. He chose to disobey God so all of Creation was spoiled.

 

I never read that the tree was perfect. The tree was a symbol of the obedience or disobedience of mankind.

 

I guess I am amazed that some many people can believe that life began from non-life. I am amazed that people believe that given millions and billions of years life began from nothing (spontaneous generation) and became millions of different plants and animals. Many feel that THIS belief takes more faith than simply believing that there might be a Supreme Being that created everything.

[burning 4 revenge]

There are a lot of things in this world that seem absurd, but that doesn't make them less true. And my point is not to give my opinion, but I am arguing the Biblical viewpoint.

 

Adam...as I read in the Bible...was given a free will. Although he was perfect as was the Creation, he had a choice as the head of all future mankind to decide if he would obey God or disobey God. He chose to disobey God so all of Creation was spoiled.

 

I never read that the tree was perfect. The tree was a symbol of the obedience or disobedience of mankind.

 

I guess I am amazed that some many people can believe that life began from non-life. I am amazed that people believe that given millions and billions of years life began from nothing (spontaneous generation) and became millions of different plants and animals. Many feel that THIS belief takes more faith than simply believing that there might be a Supreme Being that created everything.

why does it have to be a supreme being and why was this created persay?

 

when you take a sh*t are you creating it or does it just happen?

[lonelybird]

why does it have to be a supreme being and why was this created persay?

 

when you take a sh*t are you creating it or does it just happen?

I don't know why "there have to be a supreme being", I just know HE does exist and I saw his supernature power

 

Or God felt he has to give his love to others, so he created us, and he likes to see us to love him back

[disgracian]

Adam...as I read in the Bible...was given a free will. Although he was perfect as was the Creation, he had a choice as the head of all future mankind to decide if he would obey God or disobey God. He chose to disobey God so all of Creation was spoiled.

A 'perfect' creation would make a better choice, surely.

I never read that the tree was perfect. The tree was a symbol of the obedience or disobedience of mankind.

I didn't say the tree was perfect. I said it was magical. Fruit that grants knowledge and ushers sin into the world to make things die and some animals become carnivorous.

I guess I am amazed that some many people can believe that life began from non-life.

Like man being made from dust? You're right. Completely far-fetched.

I am amazed that people believe that given millions and billions of years life began from nothing (spontaneous generation) and became millions of different plants and animals. Many feel that THIS belief takes more faith than simply believing that there might be a Supreme Being that created everything.

Consider two points:

 

1. Evolution has evidence; creationism does not.

2. Where did god come from? Consider your answer carefully, because it's a logical pitfall for most theists.

 

Cheers,

D.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Disgracian: " Consider two points:

 

1. Evolution has evidence; creationism does not.

2. Where did god come from? Consider your answer carefully, because it's a logical pitfall for most theists.

 

Cheers,

D. "

 

 

 

To which I am at such a great loss in my own words to begin with an answer -but attempt to offer the following statements -in hopes the aspect chosen is as pointed and relative to your questions as science has embraced.

 

 

Sir John Eccles, a brilliant scientist, an evolutionist, and winner of the Nobel prize for medicine in 1963, said the following to Sandy Rovner of the Washington Post in April 1981.

 

" I am an evolutionist, of course, but I don't believe that evolution is the final story.....The genetic code and natural selection explain quite alot, but evolution doesn't explain...the evolution of consciousness....If my uniqueness to self is tied to the genetic uniqueness of self that built my brain, the odds against myself existing are ten to the ten-thousandth against."

 

Edward O. Wilson, well-noted and esteemed biologist and staunch believer/advocate of scientific methods of science said the following in his book, Consilience:Unity of Knowledge.

 

"I also retained a small measure of common sense. To wit, people must belong to a tribe; they yearn to have a purpose larger than themselves. We are obliged by the deepest drives of the human spirit to make ourselves more than animated dust, and we must have a story to tell about where we came from and why we are here. Could Holy Writ be just the first literate attempt to explain the universe and make ourselves significant within it? Perhaps, science is a continuation on new and better-tested ground to attain the same end. If so, then in that sense, science is religion liberated."

 

Yours,

-Rio

[JamesM]

A 'perfect' creation would make a better choice, surely.

 

Adam had a free will that meant he could choose. If he was perfect with no choice, then one would say he was a robot. God gave Adam the freedom to choose obedience or disobedience. Why did Adam choose the route of sin and disobedience? I am not Adam or God, so I do not have the answer. I am guessing that if he chose differently, some would have asked why.

 

I didn't say the tree was perfect. I said it was magical. Fruit that grants knowledge and ushers sin into the world to make things die and some animals become carnivorous.

 

Again, the tree was not magical. The symbol used for Adam's choice could have been something else. The tree itself did not usher in sin and death...Adam's choice did.

 

Like man being made from dust? You're right. Completely far-fetched.

 

I would guess that believing man came from dust that was molded by an Almighty Creator takes less faith than to believe that the dust "by a chance happenstance" came together to form a complicated cell. Of course, I guess if one has millions of years, even monkeys cane write the works of Shakespeare.

 

1. Evolution has evidence; creationism does not.

 

Incorrect. Micro evolution (evolution within species) has much evidence, while macro evolution (amoebas turning into man) has not that much. Actually, it is much theoretical suppositions.

 

Creationism has evidence. One just needs to read the many books written by the many scientists who can see that there is a lot of evidence for some Creator...rather than those books written by scientists who begin their assumptions and interpretations with the world view that a God cannot exist.

 

We can easily turn this thread or another into a discussion of evolution, but for me personally, I use this Board as a way to get feedback and receive feedback regarding relationships. I can say that having had many of the questions and beliefs as you did at your age, I have discovered that to believe that there is a God versus believing that there is NO God is more reasonable. During my investigations, I read books about evolution, creation, and even the idea that we were placed here by some civilization that is farther advanced than we are. (Yes, the evidence is there for that idea, too.)

 

Having read countless books, websites, and articles written by both evolutionists and creationists, I find that it is very difficult to "accept that primordial life on earth began as a result of chance natural occurrences 3.5-4 billion years ago." One can hardly argue that it takes less faith and is less "far fetched" to think that we are here by chance rather than by some design. However, if you refuse to see or even investigate that possibility, then you MUST choose a theory that fits your basic assumption.

 

2. Where did God come from? Consider your answer carefully, because it's a logical pitfall for most theists.

 

I will rephrase your question. Did God have a beginning or does HE have an ending? And I think one could say that the answer to both is no. It is rather simple, and not that difficult actually...in one sense. Yet it is incredibly difficult to grasp the concept.

 

What was in this universe prior to the beginning of the Earth...if you believe in evolution? Did Time exist? And if it did, how many years passed before the chance occurrence that caused our world to begin? And if time did not exist, when did it begin? Since many evolutionists find that the Big Bang Theory answers their questions regarding the beginning, then one can suppose that time began at that point in this universe. So when time does not exist, then there is no beginning or end.

 

Remove the constraints of time and there are no beginnings or endings, There is no entropy. There is no change or movement. There just...is. But this is hard for us to even imagine, because we are finite creatures. We cannot imagine a world without time or change. Our minds cannot grasp this. We cannot imagine a universe with more than three dimensions. It is no different than if a piece of paper was alive...it could not imagine a third dimension....its world is flat. So with us, we cannot imagine what God is like, because our minds are restrained by our experiences and senses.

 

So, to attempt to answer your question would be like asking a child to explain the String Theory. However, having said that, all I can say that God has always existed and will exist, because HE exists outside of the constraints of Time. The Biblical view is that before this universe existed, there was no time, and after this world ends, there will be only eternity...hence no time.

 

Think of yourself looking at all of history at the same time....imagine multitudes of movie screens showing all of history at the same time. This is about the closest that one can explain how God views us and our world. No, I have no clue how to explain how that can happen. Yet if God exists outside of time and as many believe, HE can be everywhere, then for this God to create our world would be as simple for Him as it is for you and I to breathe.

 

So, I am not sure what logical pitfall I stumbled upon, but as a finite creature, it is impossible for me to attempt to explain an infinite Being who was capable of creating mankind.

[luvstarved]

I am not going into the evolution/creationism argument...I'll just confess to being a former agnostic who has graduated to generic deist.

 

My whole philosophy is that all I can do is to be the best me I can be, and trust that whatever comes after life, I'll be ready for. Personally, I can't do better than my best. I am not too into the manmade rules for the entrance requirements to afterlife destination. We don't have the answers to all this stuff for ONE REASON:

 

WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW!!!!!

 

Works for me!

 

As to LonelyBird, I confess that I skim past most of your postings, but staunchly defend your right to post them. We are asked to share our thoughts and opinions and that is exactly what you do.

 

However, my opinion will change if you start seeking monetary donations!