Travis L Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 It's all good Carrot It is sometimes hard to make a distinction between a game and having a goal. Obviously, some of what is said is lost in translation over the internet. I truly want to spend the rest of my life with this woman. Link to post Share on other sites
Spinderella Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Sorry Trav, but firstly, this is conditional love. You are doing what you are doing, you call it love, for a result that benefits you. I'm not saying its not what most people do, it is, but, its transparent. Secondly, she wont respect you if you are hanging around her, and giving her conditional love (and she knows it, you can be sure). It just doesnt create the spark. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Sorry Trav, but firstly, this is conditional love. You are doing what you are doing, you call it love, for a result that benefits you. I'm not saying its not what most people do, it is, but, its transparent. Secondly, she wont respect you if you are hanging around her, and giving her conditional love (and she knows it, you can be sure). It just doesnt create the spark. Hence the reason why I won't be hanging around her. All love is conditional... Unconditional love is a fallacy formed in romance novels and cheesy movies. Say you have this so called unconditional love for someone and they decide they want to kill your children and then have sex with your grandfather... Are you going to continue to love this person? I would think you would no longer love the person as your perception of who they are no longer equals the reality of the situation. "Oh Donald, I don't care if you rape my mother and then kill our unborn baby...I still love you..." Come on... The closest thing to unconditional love is that between a parent and a child. Finding unconditional love outside of this is next to impossible as anyone with self respect will know when to shut their respective heart off to someone who is no longer being a positive aspect in their life (i.e. cheating, abuse, etc..). All love is conditioned upon the assumption that the other person will not do certain things. Anyway, I treat her like gold 99% of the time and she knows it as she states it to me. Every thing I do is not to win her back. I enjoy my time with her just relaxing...I enjoy helping her. At the end of the day, I want more. Sorry if that's selfish but you might as well erase the whole second chances thread if thats a bad thing. I love her, end of story. I know what I feel...I know what I have...I know what I want...I am fine tuning my path to get there. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DH27 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I second that notion. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 she wont respect you if you are hanging around her, and giving her conditional love (and she knows it, you can be sure). It just doesnt create the spark. Sorry, I got so overwhelmed with the first part of your comment I didn't acknowledge the second. I agree that having me around, jumping at her every beck and call, will not create a spark. It will make me look weak, pathetic, and a novelty. Hence the reason why I think walking away for a while will do us both some good. Anyway, I'm off to work and then to spend the night with the ex. Yes, I am weak Link to post Share on other sites
frd150 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I second that notion. Me too. Travis what your saying makes total sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Spinderella Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Travis, its a good argument, you could be right. Still its not going to win the girl, but I see you have other tactics up your sleeve. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
niceguy27 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well boys (and occasional girls)...The "break" is now over...You can see what happened in the coping section under THE letter. Ill be back later to post about your guys's stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Travis, its a good argument, you could be right. Still its not going to win the girl, but I see you have other tactics up your sleeve. Good luck. I always welcome other opinions. Thank you for taking the time to give me your point of view. I understand the gist of your point...hanging around her while wanting more than what I state is not going to work. This is where I am right now...telling her in a non-forceful way that I want more. It's especially touchy right now as she just got dumped. The compassionate thing to do is to continue to be by her side, helping her through the fog (not everyone has LS, thank God). When the fog has cleared I will tell her how I feel and leave it at that. Where she goes from there is up to her. I run the risk of her finding her next guy in the meantime but that is the risk I will take. I will not give her an ultimatum but I will simply make myself scarce while she has time to sort out her feelings and miss me. I suppose one could call it a tactic but it's the most honest tactic that you can have, in my opinion. Anyway, I always welcome opinions that might clash with my own. These opinions help me fine tune my path, and that is why I am here... Link to post Share on other sites
Blurple Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Lets see I blew up on my ex yesterday for lying to me. she came clean and told me what was going on (it was no big deal) now she wants me to come up and hang out with her tomorrow night. I am wondering if she is doing this because I pulled away from her and acted very strong in my option about her disrespecting me and her not treating me with the same respect i treat her. She says she really misses me and loves me a lot and wants me to come see her really bad. I told her since someone crashed my car i wont beable to come and see her.. she told me she wanted to come down here to see me instead.. progress you think? or just a reaction to me laying the smack down? Link to post Share on other sites
Blurple Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I will not give her an ultimatum but I will simply make myself scarce while she has time to sort out her feelings and miss me. I suppose one could call it a tactic but it's the most honest tactic that you can have, in my opinion. I gave my ex an ultimatum ... Dont lie to me Dont disrespect me or im out!!! I think she responds better to that then just asking.... but I guess thats just her She even openly said in the beginning of me trying to get back with her she wasnt respecting me, since then I havent been taking any bs... I have been standing strong and reminding her where the door is everytime... Should I be playing so strong all the time or letting things slide.. one time she told me "you dont own me" I told her shes right but if shes going to disrespect me im going to make her "kick rocks and blow bubbles" Link to post Share on other sites
MattyTee Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Hello again, Travis - sorry to hear about the ups and downs. My heart goes out to you man. I'm kind of wrestling with the same thing. I'm in NC (although only 2 weeks now) and of course it was a LDR so no chance of seeing each other. While I do want to be there for her if I can, it's tearing me apart to sit by and watch her start to date other people. I have been considering saying to her that if she chooses that path then she is closing that door (the one with me behind it, if that makes sense) - it's a matter of respecting myself and knowing I deserve better. Is that a terrible idea? It's almost a "him or me" thing and I'm guessing they usually don't turn out well Link to post Share on other sites
MattyTee Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Well, I'm no good at this Blurple but I'm pretty sure you should never let anyone disrespect you. The trick is to be assertive - I read this article earlier today which was about the three types of behaviour: Passive - You Lose / They Win Assertive - You Win / They Win Aggressive - You Win / They Lose It's over simplifying but the ideal is to be able to stand up for yourself without disrespecting the other person. So, be strong - but also respectful. I keep seeing that woman are attracted to 'strong' men blah blah ... but I think the premise is that confidence and having boundaries play an important part in who someone is - it suggests being comfortable with yourself and therefore appeals. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I gave my ex an ultimatum ... Dont lie to me Dont disrespect me or im out!!! I think she responds better to that then just asking.... but I guess thats just her She even openly said in the beginning of me trying to get back with her she wasnt respecting me, since then I havent been taking any bs... I have been standing strong and reminding her where the door is everytime... Should I be playing so strong all the time or letting things slide.. one time she told me "you dont own me" I told her shes right but if shes going to disrespect me im going to make her "kick rocks and blow bubbles" I like what Matt said...Assertive but not aggressive. You have to stick up for yourself or you risk becoming a doormat. I have had a hard time getting to assertive without crossing over into aggressive. Your ex seems to be responsive to your ultimatums. I would be careful though as you can only make a threat once or twice before they will take you up on it. I think clearly stating it once is sufficient. Repetition does not breed compliance...it breeds resentment and them thinking that you are trying to convince yourself. It's embarrassing to admit but for the last year, she has worn the pants in most ways. I have always gotten the final veto decision but she made most of our decisions. I MUST get us to the point where we are equal in the decision making or I risk looking less like a man and more like a needy boy. Compromise and equality leads to a deeper understanding and both parties are left with a feeling of self-worth. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'm kind of wrestling with the same thing. I'm in NC (although only 2 weeks now) and of course it was a LDR so no chance of seeing each other. While I do want to be there for her if I can, it's tearing me apart to sit by and watch her start to date other people. I have been considering saying to her that if she chooses that path then she is closing that door (the one with me behind it, if that makes sense) - it's a matter of respecting myself and knowing I deserve better. Is that a terrible idea? It's almost a "him or me" thing and I'm guessing they usually don't turn out well I always felt that LDR's were more complicated because the root of the problem might be a lack of closeness rather than one becoming smothered. That is, NC might actually reinforce the problem rather than help. I have never had a LDR so I am speaking from an uneducated perspective. An ultimatum like "him or me" rarely works as A) They have chosen to go for him rather than you already; and B) It is rarely believed. You have to be prepared to actually walk away for good if she chooses him. It will usually be seen as an empty threat. While I don't always follow my own advice, her going out to see what else is out there isn't always a bad thing. If she comes back, she is coming back knowing what else is out there and she would rather be with you. If she doesn't experience being out there, she will always wonder about what it would be like. Yes, it hurts to see see her with another (or hear about it). I know it hurt like hell when i first found out about my ex and the douche bag. Once i got beyond the pain, I began realizing that I know I treated her better than he would be able to. I spent 4 years with her so I know what she needs. The risk is that she will find him more appealing and a better mate... If she found that to be the case, then I would have had no choice but to walk away...knowing that I did my best at the time (without knowing what i do now) and that she is in better hands than i could provide at the time. I knew when I heard that they were sleeping together and I still wanted to be with her again, I could take it. I did not reach the point of rather starting anew with someone else than being with her. Fortunately, the man she found was no where near me in the relationship department. She realized it and stated it to me. She was on her last straw with him when he dumped her... When you are making the threat of him or me, you are really saying to her that you fear that she will find him to be a better mate. Let her find out on her own whether or not this is the case. If it is too much for you, you can always walk away. You have control...you control how much you can take before you have to walk...don't threaten...do it. I look at it like this...my ex left me before starting anything with the douche bag. So, I have a valid argument for being able to trust her should we date again. She respected me enough to leave me before starting with anyone else. Therefor, I conclude, she will leave me before she cheats. In the big picture, sex is not the end of the world. My ex had sexual partners before me and I don't get on her case about. Her having sexual partners after me should go the same way. I suppose it's idealistic to believe that it will have no effect on me as I still hate to think about his manhood inside her... Ok, I'm rambling. Be patient. Understand that her seeing someone else isn't the end of the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Blurple Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 When you are making the threat of him or me, you are really saying to her that you fear that she will find him to be a better mate. Let her find out on her own whether or not this is the case. If it is too much for you, you can always walk away. You have control...you control how much you can take before you have to walk...don't threaten...do it. Thank you for saying that.. .its funny how sometimes you need to hear things you already know before you believe them urself.. and yes i feel that i have been a little bit threating to her.. I honestly have went to assertive and then to threatening .. I feel like i have gotten better results on the threatening side. but its more of a choice that i was giving her and she realized that what she was doing wasn't fair in the first place and realized that it hurt me so i had reasons to be mad. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Well, looks like niceguy fell off the party bus... Where is everyone else at? I spent the night at my ex's the night before last... It felt good to hold her all night again... Why does my ex treat me worse than everyone else? It's not just me as she has admitted to it. It's not like she is beating me or anything (excluding her body checking me and throwing a pen at me). It's more like she doesn't have to pretend around me to be happy all the time. I like her being comfortable around me...just feels like I give 110% to her and I get 20-30% in return. Anyway, hope you men are doing well! Link to post Share on other sites
Spinderella Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Body checking? I would conlude she doesnt trust you, and that if she doesnt trust you, then hanging around will make her trust you less. In many ways she has every reason not to trust you. Heres why: You are pretending to be her friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Body checking? I would conlude she doesnt trust you, and that if she doesnt trust you, then hanging around will make her trust you less. In many ways she has every reason not to trust you. Heres why: You are pretending to be her friend. As far as the bodychecking...it was about a month after we broke up (Julyish). She asked me who I had gone on dates with...I told her and she reacted fairly harshly. One of the girls was a girl I knew while the ex and I were dating. Anyway, the ex was drunk and over reacted. She apologized the next day. I would disagree that I am pretending to be her friend. A good friendship was the core of our romantic relationship. She treated me like this over the last year. I simply do not want to settle for just being friends. I desire more than a friendship. Wikipedia defines friendship as: a term used to denote co-operative and supportive behavior between two or more humans. While I desire more than a friendship, I have been nothing but supportive and cooperative. I have been that way with her for not only the purpose of being more than friends. I genuinely care about her well being. I am the first to say that if she can be happier without me, then by all means... I think one of my problems (if you want to call it that) is that I enjoy spending time with her and taking care of her (niceguy complex...read "No more Mr. niceguy"). This is, in fact, getting in the way of me pulling the trigger on going NC. In essence, I have conflicting desires. One is to be her friend and the other is to be more than friends. I think this is why people always say to wait at least 6 months before turning an ex into a friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DH27 Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Well I thought I was making good progress...but I feel like I'm not anymore. Hit another low in the coaster... I don't understand anything anymore. One day shes kissing me, cuddling with me, and the next day it just seems like none of that even happened. I'm trying not to push her away again, and I don't really know what to do anymore. Well I invited her to a barndance my frat is having this Thursday and she said shed love to come, so I've got that goin for me. I don't know guys, I'm just stressin about it all right now. I need some advice, or a pickmeup, just something to help me out. How do I create attraction for her towards me? Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 How do I create attraction for her towards me? Well, if she's been kissing you I really think she has some attraction to you. Just maintain your confident appearance. She wants a strong man. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis L Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 "I see us as better friends." I was totally calm and explained that I understand. I had explained that while I am not unhappy being broken up, I desire trying us again. I further told her that I need to step away and focus on my life and finding someone who I can spend my life with. She said she has loved having me in her life and want me to stay in her life as a friend. I explained that while I do enjoy being in her life, it's not fair to either or us when I have a desire for more. She asked if I could continue to help her...I said that is not a good idea. It was kinda sad but phase 1 is now complete. I expected the answer I got. Next step...NC. Link to post Share on other sites
MattyTee Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Sorry to hear that Travis. Good luck with the NC Link to post Share on other sites
Author DH27 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Good work Travis. Time to work on yourself now. Try not to think about her often and try to act as if she is out of your life, so when you do contact her again (or she you) you'll be a better man and ready for it. Even though its so hard not to think about them. Good luck man, stay strong. Well she kissed me last weekend at my frat's partys friday and saturday, we had both been drinking, not trashed, just drinking. We haven't kissed sober, but we did cuddle and she fell asleep with me on wednesday. But I just haven't been getting a good vibe from her as of late... Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Travis, good for you for doing NC! It does wonders. Link to post Share on other sites
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