Lately I don't believe in afterlife

[Royelle]

I just can't picture it. And New Age and all the classic ideas and descriptions about it leave my mind exhausted. Not hopeful at all, and like they're all absurd.

 

I don't believe in prayer much, either. It seems just a desperate thing a person can do when all else fails. But who's out there listening? I can't picture that, either.

 

You could say I'm depressed but when I am happy again (hopefully) it'll just be a reaction to better times. But reality outside of me won't have changed and so it seems a bit naive to say, oh, yeah now I believe again!

 

Anyone else feel this way?

[quankanne]

all the descriptions (new age and classic) are poor ways of communicating an image to mankind, because they're using words and ideas that try to give to the fullest extent what it's going to be (harps and angels, or burning fire and brimstone). When plain and simple, it boils down to this: the infinite presence or lack of God after you've left this plane of existence.

 

is it hopeful? Depends on what your relationship with God is. Obviously, hell isn't something to look forward to because it means you're cut off from Him; heaven is ideal because you're spending the rest of eternity in mutual Love. At least this is my take on it!

 

You could say I'm depressed but when I am happy again (hopefully) it'll just be a reaction to better times. But reality outside of me won't have changed and so it seems a bit naive to say, oh, yeah now I believe again! Anyone else feel this way?

 

that's the neat thing about a person's spiritual journey: even when it seems like nothing is "happening," it's never really stagnant. What you feel now will prolly be different than what you're feeling down the line, and it all contributes to your journey.

 

same thing with prayer, which you call "a desperate thing a person (does) when all else fails," because you're not really certain there's anyone on the other end of this dialogue. At some point, you may see it differently, and again, that's all part of the journey. For what it's worth, I think people who limit prayer to pleas of desperation or need are cheating themselves because they arent' getting the full effect of that conversation with God or whatever name you use for Him. Though I have to admit, with as busy as our lives can become with all the crap we crowd into it, it can be easy to overlook that dialogue until we're desperate! I guess the simplest way to tap into prayer is to see God as Love. An infinite, unyielding source of love. Kinda like that relative or friend who always has time for you even when it's apparent you've called at a busy time. Prayer is knowing you can call on God at anytime, whether you're in need or upset or delirious with joy about what's going on in life … it's not just a rope to catch on to when you're desperate, even though a skeptic or non-believer will argue to the contrary.

[Royelle]

Thank you, quank. I respect your thoughtful reply and somehow I do feel a little better. I guess I haven't felt enough love in this past year to boost my spirits. Without that, who can believe in much in the world around you? And yet, something keeps me doing what I need to do each day to take care of myself and my cat, my home and to live as best I can. I'm willing to sit here and say, it's not just me. Someone or something more.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Royalle: " ...it's not just me."

 

It's not just you -and here's a hug- because it really sounds like you could use one!

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[disgracian]

I think the most likely explanation is that afterlife concepts are absurd, and you're in the process of realising and accepting this. My advice is to to just run with it. So many fanciful ideas on what happens after we die, and all of them with absolutely no basis whatsoever beyond wishful thinking.

 

You are absolutely correct in saying that the universe doesn't change according to your moods or perceptions. That's an important realisation to make, even though it may appear somewhat self-evident.

 

Statistically, prayer has never been shown to do anything. There is also no causal link; correlation and coincidence do not equal causation either. I hasten to add, that by prayer in this instance, I refer to the conventional "God, please do x on my behalf..." format. Prayer can involve more than this, though, but it all comes down to nothing more than the power of the mind. Why is it that adherents of many mutually exclusive religions claim the power of prayer? God surely can't be acting on behalf of people who follow the "wrong" religion afterall.

 

So, I think you're just being realistic. And there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Cheers,

D.

[sb129]

I just can't picture it. And New Age and all the classic ideas and descriptions about it leave my mind exhausted. Not hopeful at all, and like they're all absurd.

 

I don't believe in prayer much, either. It seems just a desperate thing a person can do when all else fails. But who's out there listening? I can't picture that, either.

 

You could say I'm depressed but when I am happy again (hopefully) it'll just be a reaction to better times. But reality outside of me won't have changed and so it seems a bit naive to say, oh, yeah now I believe again!

 

Anyone else feel this way?

 

Yeah, I feel this way, and am very happy!

 

Good post Disgracian..

[riobikini]

re:

 

Royelle: " I haven't felt enough love in this past year to boost my spirits. Without that, who can believe in much in the world around you? "

 

 

Disgracian: " Statistically, prayer has never been shown to do anything. There is also no causal link; correlation and coincidence do not equal causation either. I hasten to add, that by prayer in this instance, I refer to the conventional "God, please do x on my behalf..." format. Prayer can involve more than this, though, but it all comes down to nothing more than the power of the mind. "

 

The world (and you) may not change simply from wishful thinking -but rather- acting on the wishful thought.

 

And I've never met the person who can command God -or any Divine Being- to do anything; some can't even command their own dog to "sit" -that's why there are "doggie obedience" schools.

 

Makes a great point for those who don't perceive a Universal Powerful Presence.

 

(Smile)

 

And we might attribute all those euphoric emotions we label as "Spiritual" to mere neurons and chemicals, which are responsible for much of what and how we feel.

 

While our minds are, indeed, influenced and affected by naturally produced hormones which may be induced by situations, circumstances, and even physical or mental illnesses -some think there may still be a connection between (and some significant use for) the natural occurrence of these hormones in relationship to all our God-seeking and whatever concept we develop along those lines having to do with a Divine Power.

 

Truth is -we do not know everything there is to know about how the mind works and even with everything we do know -there is still great mystery and much to learn when it comes to the potential power and ability of the human mind.

 

I agree with Disgracian that we often trick ourselves into feeling good simply by thinking good thoughts -and that may give us the confidence to accomplish things, or perform better when we, otherwise, wouldn't.

 

Nothing wrong with positive thinking.

 

Likewise, there is good, also, in being stripped of all the frivolity and fairy tales created by our mind that often blind us and fools us into looking at things through rose-colored glasses -ignoring some basic principles, facts, and which can lead us quickly down a path of self-deception.

 

It's good to be in the company of those who can -with the right approach- offer both views for consideration to keep the balance.

 

As far as finding yourself contemplating or questioning your beliefs -it's good to test them.

 

Only when you begin to test them will you pursue answers for the questions that do not "fit" or feel "right" for you.

 

And you will -likely- do this in phases all through your lifetime -always gathering just the amount of information you need to "settle" the questions at hand - and then move on to another level of understanding.

 

I think this process is ever unfolding.

 

Royelle, whether your "stop" at this time is spiritual, emotional, or physical (or a bit of all three)-everyone needs a little review of where they are in their lives and that may involve everything from a self-review to a medical examination.

 

Whatever has made you stop or slow down and begin asking the questions you've asked, and begin to think about the things you are thinking deserves attention.

 

Your first post is very good start.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[EnigmaXOXO]

Statistically, prayer has never been shown to do anything...

 

... but it all comes down to nothing more than the power of the mind.

 

Perhaps this is how the two are related? If you sincerely believe that your prayer will be answered, than perhaps it empowers the mind.

 

For instance, eighteen years ago my mother was diagnosed with brain and lung cancer. She was only given a very low probability of survival. Less than a year. We all prayed like nobody’s business, while my mother insisted that she felt “in her heart and soul” that it was not her time to go yet and that she would pull through just fine. She felt comforted by something “bigger than herself” and was more worried about the rest of us who were falling apart. While a good portion of the family began to question their faith and “why would G-d allow this to happen to good people who didn’t deserve it” ... my mother saw something more profound in the predicament she was in. She saw, for the first time in a long time, a family pulling together in love and leaning on each other for strength. Something (shamefully) we all forget to do from time to time except in times of hardship and tragedy.

 

My mother admitted that the morning she was waiting in her room to be taken into the OR for brain surgery, that there was a moment when she felt afraid. But before she could question the “fairness” of it all, a little girl in the cancer ward walked up to her door, no hair and dragging her IV pole ... and with the biggest smile and sweetest voice said “Hi! ... are you sick too?” To my mother, this brave little child, who was full of sunshine in spite of how “unfair” life had been to her, was an angle sent to calm her fears and show her how selfish our questions often are as to the “why me”.

 

Eighteen years later, my mother is still alive. But was it just a coincidence that she already knew she would? Was it her belief that gave her the courage and therefore the will to pull through when all the odds were against her? Was it all the love and prayers? Do we attribute it to science and technology ... the phenomenal team of doctors and professionals at the John Hopkins Institute who just happened to be there for her when she needed them the most? Even they call my mother’s case a “miracle.”

 

Or maybe it was a combination of everything and everyone working together cohesively at the same time. Who’s to say? But for those who somehow have the vision to see beyond the surface and apply a deeper and more profound meaning to this nonsensical thing called “life,” sure seem more find more good in it, and reason enough to appreciate and continue living it, than a good many who don’t.

 

As for me, I don’t dare take even the smallest good fortune (or blessing) for granted these days and jinx it by questioning the source. I’m happy to believe whatever it is my mother attributes her tiny miracle to. After all, who but her would really know. And when you’re privy enough to bear witness to it first hand, you can’t help but feel a little inspired by the hope that there may be just a little more mystery left in this world than meets the eye.

[SierraMarie]

Yeah I can relate a little bit. I've always thought the idea of that was a little "out there".

 

Lately, I've been feeling very faithless. I usually believe in God very much so. But I always had my own life and I would pray every once in a while and try to live out the things that I believed, but I always failed. So, eventually I got sick of this and I decided that if I was really going to believe in God (which I really did (do?)) then why wouldn't I live the life that He wanted me to live? So I tried to do that. I went to church and all that, I stopped doing all of the things I thought were not allowed (such as drinking,smoking, etc), but for some reason doing all that made me very unhappy. I tried to pray to God all the time, but I felt like I wasn't doing it right or He wasn't listening, because I never got answers. I also felt like I didn't know what to do. I knew I wanted God to tell me what to do with my life, but it seemed like he wasn't doing that and I was very confused. I wanted to do what God wanted, but I didn't know what that was.

 

I also tried reading the Bible more, but it honestly confused me more. I felt like some of the things it said were supposed to be this way and that way were just too far-fetched and I would never be that way. For one thing, apparently women are supposed to wear dresses and not pants? Whats up with that. No christians that I know follow that rule so it made me wonder why they don't. Things like that, the dress thing, and also how women are supposed to stay home and be housewives. How realistic is that? It just exasperates me. I was very unhappy, so I went back to doing the things that I wanted to do and I was very happy. I think I don't like having restrictions. For instance, it's not like I go get drunk all the time, but I don't like to be told that I can't if I want to. I don't know, maybe it's just me. As for believing in God, I still WANT to believe in God, but I just don't know. Right now I just want to do what makes me happy. I don't want to be constantly wondering what God wants me to do, I'd rather just do what I feel like I want to do. I'm probably going to hell...

[quankanne]

Why is it that adherents of many mutually exclusive religions claim the power of prayer? because it feels really really good when you get a groove going

 

God surely can't be acting on behalf of people who follow the "wrong" religion afterall He's not … the relationship between man and God is not supposed to be about how man manipulates to get whatever his heart desires, but about love and opening oneself to His will. Religion is the cart on the spiritual journey, it can be an imperfect as vehicles go. But rather than focus on how shiny it is or why it's better than the Joneses, we should be focused on the journey itself. i.e., it's not about the "right religion," it's about that connection with God. Because if it *were* about the "right" religion, then only Catholics are saved. But that's limiting God's vast love for mankind, and as much as I love the Church I know that's not right.

 

As for believing in God, I still WANT to believe in God, but I just don't know. Right now I just want to do what makes me happy. I don't want to be constantly wondering what God wants me to do, I'd rather just do what I feel like I want to do. I'm probably going to hell...

 

doubting doesn't merit hell, sierra (lovely name, BTW), even saints have experienced "the dark night of the soul." Even Mother Teresa, and we all have seen how selflessly she followed Christ's call.

 

God wants you to be happy, but your path to happiness is going to be different from someone else's because you and the other guy are not one in the same. That might mean cutting through red tape, while the other guy might need that red tape to guide him along his path, you know?

[SierraMarie]

doubting doesn't merit hell, sierra (lovely name, BTW), even saints have experienced "the dark night of the soul." Even Mother Teresa, and we all have seen how selflessly she followed Christ's call.

 

God wants you to be happy, but your path to happiness is going to be different from someone else's because you and the other guy are not one in the same. That might mean cutting through red tape, while the other guy might need that red tape to guide him along his path, you know?

 

Thanks, it's not my real name tho

 

Actually I'm not sure I know what you mean...

[riobikini]

re:

 

SierraMarie: "I knew I wanted God to tell me what to do with my life, but it seemed like he wasn't doing that ..."

 

 

 

Know how a tiny bird gets pushed from the nest by it's mother?

 

The thing that pleases the people who love you best and with deepest meaning is that you get out there and live some life!

 

Don't hang around the nest trying to make them smile from all that "happiness" and "devotion" and willingness to please that you're trying to invent!

 

Get out there and experience life!

 

I think if a person is so focused on the fear of not pleasing someone they usually just shoot nervously into the dark and wind up being frustrated and intimidated by not being sure they're even in the ballpark.

 

And they walk away (similar to the tiny birds that naturally fly away.)

 

And they become more experienced; they gather more -and new- information.

 

And later, when they're ready they return, usually after having cultivated a few individually unique life experiences to help them ask more focused, pointed questions -they are less easily daunted in their search for answers.

 

And bring to the table much more substantial food for thought and conversation -and a pretty surprising ability to understand and relate to the "God-stuff" or Spiritual matters they thought they'd never be able to relate to.

 

-Rio

[quankanne]

thanks for the edification, Rio – eloquently put!

 

Sierra, it's what she says, in an easier to digest way: You've got to figure out what's flack and what's truth. Obviously those obscure Biblical laws don't make sense because they cannot be applied practically to your life (i.e., red tape/bureaucracy), but for someone else, that kind of bureaucracy is necessary in making that journey ..

[SierraMarie]

re:

I think if a person is so focused on the fear of not pleasing someone they usually just shoot nervously into the dark and wind up being frustrated and intimidated by not being sure they're even in the ballpark.

-Rio

 

That's exactly how I feel.

 

I just want to do what is right and what God wants so my life will be on the right path. If I don't do what God wants, then I'll have to live with the consequences, which I've had to do before. That's the thing, I'm never exactly sure what God wants me to do, so I never know when I'll reap good things from it or bad. I just don't want to have to deal with the bad. Ah, well, you live and learn right?

[SierraMarie]

thanks for the edification, Rio – eloquently put!

 

Sierra, it's what she says, in an easier to digest way: You've got to figure out what's flack and what's truth. Obviously those obscure Biblical laws don't make sense because they cannot be applied practically to your life (i.e., red tape/bureaucracy), but for someone else, that kind of bureaucracy is necessary in making that journey ..

 

Right, so I guess the whole "reading the Bible religiously" thing doesn't apply then. I find that I just get confused when I do that, because I don't know what to believe. When I just read it when I really feel the need, that's when it helps me the most. I've always thought that not the whole Bible was applicable because PEOPLE did write the Bible, it wasn't actually God. There could have been a few things that aren't correct, right?

 

I think I'm just hung up on the whole religion thing. Does that make any sense?

[riobikini]

re:

 

SierraMarie: " Ah, well, you live and learn right? "

 

That's exactly the point!

 

(Smile)

 

re:

 

SierraMarie: " "reading the Bible religiously" ...... I find that I just get confused when I do that.."

 

Little story:

 

My daughter who sucks at math -and knows it (Smile)- borrowed an advanced class math book from a friend out of sheer curiosity and sat there paging through the book squinting and scowling, obviously more confused and frightened than ever of what she discovered she didn't already know -and what would be expected of her later on.

 

This is also, how some folks go about choosing the religious literature they read -in specific, the level of literature they are reading.

 

And it intimidates, confuses, and frustrates them -and they back off, often too far off- and sometimes, they wind up doing everything they can to avoid ever having to be confronted with Spiritual matters, or religious literature and history, again.

 

Enthusiasm is dampened the same as if someone had thrown a soggy blanket over their heads.

 

Another negative side of pursuing information (with the idea of getting it all at once) without being ready for it, is the unfortunate occurrence of running into someone who is most flamboyantly or fanatically influenced by a teaching, doctrine, or practice of a particular religion -or outright disbelief in anything Spiritually related- and who "pushes" his belief or non-belief on you, relating extraneous or loosely-related facts, or warnings, or even gilted promises of a deliriously happy life -but only if you'll submit to, or accept wholly the information- even if you don't understand it.

 

Some just leave you "holding the bag" -bombarding you with facts that illicit feelings of fear, emptiness and hopelessness that paralyze you, at first, then cause the door to close -and lock- concerning all you might have pursued, had you never encountered them.

 

And robbing you of a richer, more informed -and wellbalanced- life.

 

Since the whole idea of religion and spiritual things are a matter of utmost personal individual concern, you could do better by just gathering info (and process it in your own time) -rather than diving in headfirst into and automatically adopting the info and beliefs of the first flaming torches that come piously chanting along.

 

Again, experience life and let it teach you.

 

I can't think of a better, more intelligent way to attune yourself to God-stuff, learn about the world you live in -or learn how to be a better person.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[quankanne]

That's the thing, I'm never exactly sure what God wants me to do, so I never know when I'll reap good things from it or bad. I just don't want to have to deal with the bad. Ah, well, you live and learn right?

 

Jesus boiled the Ten Commandments down to this: Love God, and love one another. When you act on love, you act in the best interest of others, right? We divert plans to accomodate the needs of someone we love, we compromise for the better of a relationship with someone we love, we go out of our way to do things to cheer up someone we love, or even make them feel our love. Spiritually speaking, it then becomes an act of forgiveness and reconciliation that includes a broader spectrum of people. Including the pinheads you just want to stomp!

 

dealing with the bad (in others or in other situations) is part of the package, and how you respond with the love you have (i.e., putting into play forgivenes and reconciliation and acceptance) is your harvest, is what you'll reap from the situation. So, it's almost like there's a higher road you can take in those situations, you know? Though I'm probably talking from a different end of the spectrum that you're asking about ...

 

Right, so I guess the whole "reading the Bible religiously" thing doesn't apply then.

 

I've always admired people who could sit and read the Bible from cover to cover – I interviewed a Catholic nun once who admitted that she never really approached it that way, though her dad, a devout Protestant, read it from cover to cover every year for 25 years! She figured he must've devoted himself to reading 3-4 chapters a day, and she marvelled at his perseverance, because this was a long, long time ago, when they didn't have modern conveniences.

 

but Sister M. John did say that the prayers and meditations that the nuns did every day as part of their lifestyle covered a variety of things from the Bible, as they are Scripture-based. Even the readings at Mass (two during the week, three on Sundays) were taken from the Gospel, so even though Catholics are not historically known to read the Bible as devoutly as their Protestant brothers, we still absorb it and learn from it.

 

When I just read it when I really feel the need, that's when it helps me the most. I've always thought that not the whole Bible was applicable because PEOPLE did write the Bible, it wasn't actually God. There could have been a few things that aren't correct, right?

 

the whole thing about the Bible is that it is a companion for man as he makes his spiritual journey, because it's about man's spiritual history, shared in context with the social and historical and geographical input about the author's time. There's also the fact that the Bible we read is not the *first* Bible that made the rounds … and that the movable printing press wasn't invented until Gutenberg until the 1600's. Which meant you had a set number of Bibles being hand-lettered by monks who devoted entire lifetimes to getting The Word down on parchment or vellum. So yeah, it's easy to imagine that there could be misinterpretations and mistakes based on human error, but the message of the Bible remains the same: God loves us dearly, and he wants us to love each other as he loves us.

[lonelybird]

Jesus said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scibes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven"

 

Do you believe in Holy Spirit? Words in Bible are full of wisdom and protection and supernature power, if you don't believe them heartly in the first place, you don't rely on them and trust in them, then these wisdom and protection and supernature power won't work out for you.

 

If we sit there think who God is without guidance of Holy Spirit and Bible, probably we won't get correct answer, as there are dark forces and evil spirits working out there, they work through people's imaginery and mind. Lord said "my people perish for lack of knowlege", when evil spirit hit our mind, if we don't use words of God guard our heart and mind, we are in danger of something, could be in danger of faith, in danger of being showed by negativeness. In this case we rely on our own abilities and try to get answer by our own thinking and experiences, we didn't get humble enough to ask God for answer. Some experiences are just evil and down right self-destruction. But with guidance of Holy Spirit and Bible, we can experience abundantly and fulfilling life:)

 

Fasting can be a humble gesture if you want to try:D

[SierraMarie]

Thanks for your advice Rio and Quankanne. You two are great.

[Enema]

Fasting can be a humble gesture if you want to try:D

 

Fasting can help you find the Holy Spirit?

 

Starvation begets hallucination.

 

Now that I find amusing.

[directx]

Fasting can help you find the Holy Spirit?

 

Starvation begets hallucination.

 

Now that I find amusing.

 

 

How much fasting do you have to do? I mean, can you sneak a corndog or two once in awhile?

[lonelybird]

Matthew

7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

Fasting can make us appreciate everything in our life, everything is a gift from God, can make us remember those hunger kids, can make us humble before God

 

If we rely on ourselves to abide by all laws, it will lead to frustration. If we rely on God, rely on Holy Spirit, we will naturally WANT to read Bible, WANT to abide by those laws, not forced

[directx]

lonelybird,

Where does the fasting come in with your quote?

I mean, do we have to fast because the gate is so narrow that we have to lose weight to squeeze through it?

[lonelybird]

lonelybird,

Where does the fasting come in with your quote?

I mean, do we have to fast because the gate is so narrow that we have to lose weight to squeeze through it?

Matthew 11: 39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lost their life for my sake will find it

 

 

ps. this quote has nothing to do with fasting, fasting is form of showing humble and learning humble before God

[riobikini]

Gandhi fasted to near death -not specifically to get closer to any Deity, necessarily, but for reasons he thought were just as important.

 

Some religions, cults, sects, and large portions of societies focus on diet as a way to purge all sorts of things from spiritual "bad Karma" to simply the toxins some believe can contribute to being a little "off base" or "out of touch" with their spirituality.

 

Some are just wise enough to recognize the benefits without recognizing a Deity of some sort.

 

But fasting -I'm not so sure about how healthy the idea of going totally without -at least- some food is for prolonged periods of time- even though water is allowed.

 

Religious restricted diets make the most sense to me if the restrictions are founded from a nutritionally sound, risk-preventive direction designed to be (first of all) health-focused.

 

Then -if the diet is right for the person (and there are as many variations in what each individual may require to achieve a healthy diet, as there are individuals, themselves) -I think whatever "communion" they hope to be doing with whatever Deity they believe in, could be -at least- enhanced to its present optimum -even if its just a belief that sports rules and the track coach is King.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio