First post--Looking for some long needed advice

[rainy]

Hi all, just a newbie here looking for some help and advice. My situation is a long one, so I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

 

My husband I have been married a little over a year and a half. Been together 4+ yrs altogether. Both of us have children from our 1st marriages, and we have a child together.

 

My 1st marriage was a disaster from the start, I was young, pregnant and confused. We were together for 10 yrs total. He was alcoholic, verbally/physically abusive, multiple affairs. I was low self esteem, didn't know how I would make it as a single mom, etc. I began counseling b4 I got pregnant with our 3rd child and continued going long after I left him when she was 2 yrs old. I went for a total of aboutg 5 yrs. I thought I had worked through a lot of issues. When our divorce was finalized I moved 600 miles away and began a new life.

 

My current husband had been a friend of mine for almost 2 years before we started dating. I had always admired the man he was. Gentle, kind, great with his kids and mine, treated me with so much respect. We lived together for a while (I was very skittish about getting married again), and eventually we did marry.

 

After we were married for a short time, I had begun to notice little things, like I would catch him in little lies. I had been very honest with him about my feelings on honesty, drinking, abusiveness, etc. Anyway, I would find evidence that he'd been on a drinking binge, and he would tell me things like he liked to have a drink now and then but would hide it from me b/c he didn't want me to think he was like my 1st husband. I would be racked w/guilt and tell him I didn't think he couldn't never drink, I had just been honest about my first husband's addiction and how it had destroyed us.

 

Time went by and I would notice more and more things that seemed fishy. I came across some porn sites on the computer one night that he'd been looking at, very strange ones. He said he'd been surfing and was just typing in stuff and they just came up, and he tried to get rid of them all. Seemed like somewhat of a reasonable explanation, but my gut was telling me he was lying. Time and time again I would find stuff like that, then came phone sex conversations (my credit card was frozen due to unfamiliar charges), marijuana, more alcohol abuse, etc. Every time I would question him, he would either get really angry and tell me I was a controller, or he would cry and tell me he was sorry and didn't know what was wrong with him, or he would lie and then get angry if I didn't believe him.

 

Over time, he started leaving on long binges, and would call when he ran out of money and want to come home. After the 3rd time, I said NO more. He was near death, and needed help. He went to treatment for 28 days (my ins. covered the best that he could get to the tune of $10K), and I attended sessions w/him and the counselors there every weekend. He came home and was great for about 3 mos. Soon, he was slipping back into his old ways, angry about everything again, ordering porn on cable, calling phone sex lines again, etc. To my knowledge he wasn't using at that time, but definitely had the addicts personality again.

 

I told him I was going to marriage counselling and that he should go with me. He agreed and went a handful of times over the next couple of months. A little over a month ago, he left in a fit of anger over an argument and said he was gone for good. Called me a few days later and said he was sorry and wanted to work it out and stick to the counseling. After a week had gone by I let him come back and for about 3 weeks everything 'seemed' to be looking more and more positive.

 

Then 2 weeks ago, he called me at work, picked a fight with me about something and then called back a few minutes later and said he was leaving again. I knew right away he was drunk. I left work and came home to be with the kids and he was gone. Called me a few days later and wanted to come home. I said no. I said this time I am stopping this once and for all. I told him I love him, but I have to set boundaries and get myself better, b/c I believe that I have to be just as messed up as him to have stayed in this for this long of a time.

 

The first couple of times I talked to him he sounded like he agreed with me, we saw each other for a couple of hours a week after he'd been gone and I got to tell him to his face that I was sticking to it this time. He wholeheartedly agreed with me, and said he knew that this time we were going to get it together and he was going to work on his addiction, and his other issues and he was going to be a good husband.

 

Yesterday he called me drunk again, angry and swearing about how I have it so easy and he's having such a rough time and I just don't care about him at all. I asked him not to call me again. I told him I won't do this any more. No contact is better than this roller coaster. He said if I really feel this way I can kiss this marriage good bye.

 

Today he called me so many times while I was at work, I finally had to put my phone on silent. I answered one time only to say Please don't bother me at work. He called me not 5 min after I got home from work, and immediately began swearing and yelling at me again. I hung up after telling him to just leave me alone and don't contact me until he can treat me with respect and dignity.

 

He's been out of the house for 2 weeks, doesn't have a job, took his daughter with him, is staying with 2 people he barely knows and is on welfare. I am working full time, taking care of 4 kids, paying all of our bills and he wants me to give him money to live on until his benefits 'kick in' as he puts it. He hasn't held a job for more than a couple of months in the last 2 years.

 

I am still going to my counselor, but at this point, I feel like there must be something terribly wrong with me. How could I not have known he was like this? I was in such a bad marriage before and spent so many years in counselling, that I was sure I would be able to make good choices in the future.

 

I'm really looking for some advice here. I believe I know what I need to do, first work on me, let go of him and let him make his own choices, but I'm really confused. I go through feelings of guilt, thinking I'm the cause of it all, anger, frustration and helplessness.

 

Thanks for reading...

[Reckless]

Hey there Rainy,

 

You know my sister was in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic - she had two children with him and also did the roller coaster, let him back try again thing for a while. Eventually she got out. She was willing to keep trying but she was not willing to let her children grow up with that model as a father.

 

There's little advice to give since you seem a very lucid person, if you have really made the decision to end your marriage then you might have to take some legal steps to protect yourself and your children and also, since at the moment you are the bread winner and provider for your family, you might need to seek advice regarding protecting your property and income.

 

As for the double irony of getting out of an abusive marriage and ending up in one again, I feel that yes, there is something in you that pulls these men in to you or you to these men. My sister was always the 'care giver' the one that put herself last and it seemed natural for her to marry someone very 'needy' and immature (alcholics aren't emotionally developed and are often stuck in adolescense, with anger, tears denial being how they cope with problems...). She was telling me recently about a book she read called 'Codependent no more' but I can't remember the author ... anyway, she said she recognized eventually what it was in her that made her story possible and is learning to value herself and recognize the sort of man she wants. She is not in another relationship at the moment.

 

It seems you took all the right steps after your first marriage but sometimes we are looking so hard for what we don't want we forget to sort out what we do want. It's not enough to say, 'I don't want a man who drinks..' you needed to understand and recognize the value of maturity, emotional stability, open honest communication, ability to analyze and find a solution to problems, take the lead in a crisis. Like my sister you needed to have the firm resolve to either find someone with insight, flexibility and wisdom or DO WITHOUT. The carers, the 'cleaners' the fixer-uppers, the nurturers of this world never have the time to do this because they're too busy, caring, cleaning fixing and nurturing.

 

Hope the sun comes out real soon rainy,

 

R.

[rainy]

Reckless, thank you for sharing your sister's exp. I'm sorry to hear she's had similar relationship issues, but happy to hear she is in recovery for herself!

 

I belong to an online Alanon group and have ever since my husband went to treatment, I see a counselor weekly again, and I read a lot online at night when I have a little time to myself.

 

What you said about being a caregiver, and putting yourself last, definitely describes me as well. The difference between this marriage and my first one is my current husband has never laid a hand on me, and I think he really believes he has an addiction, and some times I even believe that he is really sorry for the things he's done and wants to change. What you wrote about addicts being emotionally underdeveloped and unable to deal with issues is right on. That is what keeps him from being able to step up and face the issues and do something about them.

 

Over time he has become verbally and emotionally abusive, which can be worse than physical abuse. In his opinion tho, he has never laid a hand on me so he's not 'that bad' really.

 

As for protecting myself, you're right on this too. I am calling my phone company today and changing my #. In the state we live in, if one spouse moves out of the house, they cannot just come back in whenever they want. He also cannot take anything from the house w/o the court being involved. As for me being the breadwinner of the family, I am not obligated to help him financially in any way, unless there is a physical reason why he cannot work. The fact that he has an addiction, could be an issue, but the fact that he was in treatment less than a year ago, and didn't attend AA afterwards or continue with individual counselling will determine he was not serious about recovery. I've already contacted a lawyer and asked these questions. I was concerned that I would be forced to pay alimony to him, but that won't happen.

 

Right now I know he is scared so his way of dealing with it is by anger and resentment, and blame. One question I have for you is did your sisters husband ever come around or not? If yes, how is their relationship now?

 

Take care,

[ThisGirlNameKD]

You sound like you're moving on, and that's good. As far as how you end one bad relationship to end up in the same bad relationship, what you did is known in social psychology as the "I knew it all along" phenomenon. It includes when you feel an outcome seems as if it should have been forseeable, and so you're blaming yourself on making a bad decision that you felt should have been obvious in the beginning. Things like that happen.

 

But as the previous posting said and you've said yourself, its good to take time to focus on yourself and see what in you draws you to these people. Also when you are dating, know that more times than not an alcoholic will hide that side of them until they are married. So, when you're dating, ask a lot of questions about the past, and the things they are current doing, their view on alcoholism, and watch them intently. Because believe it or not, no one just suddenly changes before our eyes. There are signs that people give as the kind of person they really are. Sometimes those signs are blatant and sometimes they're not as obvious. Sometimes we ignore those signs and sometimes we are oblivious to them. If you are in counseling, ask your counselor if possible what maybe warning signs of an abusive person.,

[moimeme]

Rainy -

 

It just goes to show that you really can't know somebody well until you spend 24/7 with them for a long time. I, too, have been 'fooled' by fellows with issues and problems. I'm usually very good about detecting honesty so I wondered why I got taken, too. I think it's that they believe what they're telling you ("I'm not an alcoholic") so you don't detect a lie - to them, they aren't lying. It also seems to be the case that if they have a big lie like that going on, it's accompanied by heaps of other 'little' lies but, as you found out, your gut told you about those.

 

Anyone who knows or suspects he is 'flawed' is likely deeply ashamed and motivated to hide it - consciously or unconsciously. You could have a really good guy, but you honestly won't know until a minimum of a year goes by and, as you found out, it sometimes takes a couple of years simply because the less-than-great ones become very accomplished at keeping their flaws well-hidden.

 

My aunt only found out after she was married that she had married an alcoholic. She dated him but did not live with him. He'd drop her off at night and then go out drinking!

 

Don't beat yourself up but remember that if your gut twinges about anything a person does, it likely means something is amiss.

Good luck to you - and me - and everyone who figures they ought to 'give him a chance' because he has so many good qualities. If only we could magically eliminate the bad ones!

[km82794]

Dear Rainy,

 

To me, it sounds like you already have it together. Your eyes are open and you are on the right track. I agree with you 100%, you should explore why you are drawn to this sort of person.

 

As far as feeling guilty, I wouldn't, obviosly this man wasn't caring what he was doing to you (FOR THE SECOND TIME AROUND).

 

It's tough love sweety, hopefully it works out for you. The man definitely has issues he needs to address and babying him only enables him.

 

Best of luck to you!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Rainy,

 

I have been there, too. And there is nothing I can tell you that your councilors haven’t already said a hundred times before.

 

Funny how it is so true that 90% of women who leave a chemically dependant and/or abusive relationship will subconsciously choose another partner who turns out to be just like the person we left…even if we deliberately seek out someone who we think is “safe.”

 

Remember your “tough love.” We can not change anyone. The only control we have is how we choose to “deal” with the situation---whether we decide to tolerate our situation a bit longer or leave to save ourselves.

 

As for me, I have made a promise to myself that I will not spend another dime on therapy so that I may learn to accept someone else’s problems. If the survival of the relationship I’m in depends on third-party intervention, I will save the time, money and frustration by ‘rescuing’ myself. Hard core, I know, but YEARS of counseling have taught me that sometimes the only person you can ‘fix’ is yourself.

 

God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The Courage to change the things I can,

And the Wisdom to know the difference…

[flower]

Just to share with you my experience: I used to have an alcoholic immediate superior. I did not know he was alcoholic initially as he denied he drank a lot. I had to clear work matters for him when he did not turn up for work after a night's out drinking. Went to the point of me going to the pub he frequent to drink to make him feel guilty of being a bad example to subordinate. Then, he had a minor heart attack. I was put in charge of our section and I was drained out with work due to my inexperience and visiting him in hospital. Thought he would kick his habit after leaving hospital. But he was soon back to his drinking habits after 2 weeks. I noticed that when he drinks he tend to pick up girls and during work, he surfed porn sites. 6 months later, he quit his job. I was upset that all my efforts had gone down the drain and unknowingly, my energies were drained during the "caring" period, I became very depressed, sleepy always and exhausted. I quit my job too.

 

3 months later, I met a man with many good qualities who was interested in me yet held me at a distance. 2 mutual friends advised me to stay away from him without any reason. I was curious why but stayed away. 2 years later I got married and he started to email me. In one email, he expressed his inability to control drinking. This is a small hint but I guess that he could be an alcoholic too. Though he tells me he does not drink much, I am quite sceptical. I think he knows himself so does not want to complicate me by involving me in a relationship. It is sad.

 

I think my personality tend to attract alcoholics too but glad that I am married to a normal man now. Alcoholism is a sickness. Alcoholics do not listen to anyone including themselves as their brains are controlled by the drinks! It's very draining on the energies of caregivers.