He is moslem, am Xtian but wants me to change? what happens to wedding?

[Vixen763]

If you don't convert, what will make your life hell?

 

 

 

You don't have to to ask your family's permission, you are an adult.

 

 

 

You shouldn't try to change him, just as he shouldn't try to change you.

 

 

 

Would they be comfortable if you spend your life alone? It seems thay worry more about their rules and dogmas, than about your happinness. Suppose you break up with him, are they going to find you a husband? You might end up marrying someone you don't love just because he has the religion your parents approve of.

 

You ahve just voiced what i am feeling...He loves me and i do love him as well...I am more sure of this now than i was a month ago...we both wnat the relationship and personally in my heart i feel that i would be comfortable with him as a lifetime partner because he has most of the values i wish to have in a spouse...

 

I am sure about his love for me and he currently feels/thinks i am running away from him

 

"Love, dont run away from me. You are all ive got...am saying this because i sense through your messages that you want to run/walk away fro me as far away as you can get..dont let religion separate us. We can come out of this. I love you and will love you till i drop. i owe you alot..." etc

 

thats a message from him this morning,....And what prompts him to write that today is because i have gone on a low profile about us...i say little because i wnat to make a decision soon and get on with life if at all i end up getting out of this relationship.

 

I love him and thats why i would risk taking him without having to change his religion and him not having to persuade me into changing because i dont wnat to change...My family also plays a big role in my religiona and i know even if i wanted to change to islam (which i dont wnat to), my family would disapprove of this,....

 

1. How can i make myself clear to him, that he should not even be considering changing me in the future because i wnat to stay the way i am..

 

2. I am worried for the kids...i still think they can belong to Islam because to me God is one...but then again, their father would ahve to play a major role in their religious upbringing....

 

It is me who wnats to continue going to church and i will be happy in a way....I just dont know if it would be the right decison for me to make...that is where the problem is...

[VIP]

1. How can i make myself clear to him, that he should not even be considering changing me in the future because i wnat to stay the way i am..

 

Tell him you love him and want to be with him. But neither of you should try to convert each other. He doesn't want to convert, so why should you?

 

2. I am worried for the kids...i still think they can belong to Islam because to me God is one...but then again, their father would ahve to play a major role in their religious upbringing....

 

Why not bring up kids without religion and let them decide for themself what they want to believe in, when they are old enough to think for themselves?

[Vixen763]

Makes alot of sense...

 

I dont want to chnage him because thats the religion he has been brought up knowing and believing and besides i dont want a mirror picture of who i am..

 

I will be upfront about this again...I would love to be with him....if eh will take me the way i am, because thats who i am and believe in..

 

About the kids...what happenes between infant ages until they are old enough to make a decision which religion they wnat to take...Are you implying that for about 13-16 years the kids shouldnt have a relation with religion... No mosque or church whatsoever?

 

Will that mean, they will derive all their moral upbringing on us the parents?

[VIP]

About the kids...what happenes between infant ages until they are old enough to make a decision which religion they wnat to take...Are you implying that for about 13-16 years the kids shouldnt have a relation with religion... No mosque or church whatsoever?

 

Will that mean, they will derive all their moral upbringing on us the parents?

 

Yes, exactly.

[Jinnah]

...i still think they can belong to Islam because to me God is one...

 

I kinda get the feeling you have your own version of Christianity going on here because none of the things you say are biblical (sorry if that's sounds judgemental, bet hey you're asking for advice and this is it). It sounds like you follow the parts of the Bible that are convenient and ignore the ones that aren't... there's a difference in making a mistake/sinning (and then repenting and trying not to do it again) and just flat out ignoring the things you don't want to believe and changing it to suit yourself. Anyway, do as you wish ... all I can give is Biblical advice ... whether or not you choose to follow it is your decision (free will)... and I think I've pretty much said what I felt the need to say already. I guess the last thing I can say is that you should at least go talk to your family... maybe they can help you, whereas I cannot. Good luck.

[Jinnah]

I am just a normal person fighting within myself where i have a relationship i would want to keep for the future but there are dilemma's and i am at the point where i feel i could make a mistake and walk out of a good thing and lose it all for life....or stay in what will make my life hell...as in go against my religious upbringing...

 

I am yet to talk to my family about it but i almost know what the response will be...

 

1. Pray about it and let God convert him into christianity-

2. I ahve had a discussion with my family in my previous relationship and my family was uncomfortable with me dating a person of catholic faith...

 

P.S. I know and I feel bad for you... I really do. Your parents are right though. Usually parents really do know what's best, and if you listen, you will be glad you did. I really feel that if you stay in this, you are going to wake up one day a wish you had made a different choice and have no easy way out. You really could stay friends with him and maybe one day he would convert and then you would have been a part of something amazing... don't put your future kids in a religion that you have said you don't want to be a part of. Still praying for you, but I will leave the rest up to you. I'm here if you need me.

[VIP]

Your parents are right though. Usually parents really do know what's best, and if you listen, you will be glad you did.

 

Her parents could care less if she never finds love, as long as she doesn't marry someone who is not penecostal. By the way, I never met one. What are the chances of meeting one, one in a billion?

 

You really could stay friends with him and maybe one day he would convert and then you would have been a part of something amazing...

 

Asking each other to convert is a no win situation. Acceptance is the key.

[Jinnah]

Her parents could care less if she never finds love, as long as she doesn't marry someone who is not penecostal. By the way, I never met one. What are the chances of meeting one, one in a billion?

 

Asking each other to convert is a no win situation. Acceptance is the key.

 

You sure like being difficult, don't you? You've never met who? What are the chances of meeting WHO?

 

You are right, no one should MAKE anyone convert... it's the persons choice... it never should be done to keep a person in a relationship.

[norajane]

how comfortable i should be feleing about being forced to convert just because i will ahppen to ahve ended up with someone i have but of a different faith...

 

Being FORCED to convert should make you feel very, very uncomfortable. No one should be forced to convert to anything. You should choose it freely and willingly because you believe in the religion, or are willing to take on that faith because of your deep love for your bf.

 

i am beginning to worry and wonder at the same time...what happens if i never meet somebody i love of the same pentecoastal faith as me...

 

This is why people are asking you how important your religion is to you, and how deeply you believe in the tenets and teachings of your faith. If your faith is strong, then you would never consider converting to another, nor would you consider being with someone who wasn't of your faith, nor would you believe it could work out if you were with someone who was not of your faith, nor would you want to raise your children in any other faith, nor would you be afraid of not falling in love with someone of your faith...

 

If your faith is mostly what your parents believe and you don't believe in it so much, then, of course, your choices will be different.

 

better to meet and live with someone who gives me 80% of what i value in a lifetime partner or better to meet somebody of my faith, whom my parents will also be comfortable with but only brings that match to our union and lacks the fundamentals i value for longterm settlement?

 

It depends on how important that other 20% is to you.

[taiko]

Man and the apes share something like 97% of the same DNA, it is that last 3% which makes the big difference.

[VIP]

Man and the apes share something like 97% of the same DNA, it is that last 3% which makes the big difference.

 

Luckily all people are created equal with the same type of DNA.

[disgracian]

This is why people are asking you how important your religion is to you, and how deeply you believe in the tenets and teachings of your faith. If your faith is strong, then you would never consider converting to another, nor would you consider being with someone who wasn't of your faith, nor would you believe it could work out if you were with someone who was not of your faith, nor would you want to raise your children in any other faith, nor would you be afraid of not falling in love with someone of your faith...

I just wanted to touch on this: why do people equate strength with what could just as easily be referred to as inflexibility, narrow-mindedness, intolerance, xenophobia, rigidity?

 

My wife is married to somebody outside of her faith (me, obviously) and I welcome you to try to tell her that her faith is not important to her, or that her beliefs are not strong.

 

The principle difference seems to be that in your view, somebody who is strong in their beliefs should try to limit their association with those who are not, or try to convert them every chance they get. In short, to push it on the rest of the world rather than allowing it to remain a strongly held but personal conviction. It doesn't have to bring about a lack of respect for other beliefs. You can't claim to respect something that you'd want to destroy and replace with something else.

 

Just something to ruminate on.

 

Cheers,

D.

[norajane]

I just wanted to touch on this: why do people equate strength with what could just as easily be referred to as inflexibility, narrow-mindedness, intolerance, xenophobia, rigidity?

 

My wife is married to somebody outside of her faith (me, obviously) and I welcome you to try to tell her that her faith is not important to her, or that her beliefs are not strong.

 

The principle difference seems to be that in your view, somebody who is strong in their beliefs should try to limit their association with those who are not, or try to convert them every chance they get. In short, to push it on the rest of the world rather than allowing it to remain a strongly held but personal conviction. It doesn't have to bring about a lack of respect for other beliefs. You can't claim to respect something that you'd want to destroy and replace with something else.

 

Just something to ruminate on.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I don't know. I don't have a religion or faith, nor do I want one.

 

But, even if you only read what is here in this thread, you see that religions have certain beliefs, and those beliefs preclude people from marrying people of other faiths because they won't end up in heaven together and whatnot. So if you believe in those religions and have a strong faith in the tenets and teachings, then you believe that you should not marry someone outside the religion.

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong or inflexible or whatever. I'm just saying you can't believe in something strongly and do the complete opposite and it's all okey-dokey somehow.

 

Perhaps your wife does not actually believe some of the teachings of her religion, although she believes strongly in others, which is why she was able to marry outside it.

[VIP]

I'm just saying you can't believe in something strongly and do the complete opposite and it's all okey-dokey somehow.

 

She believes in what she wants to believe. And it's ok.

[mental_traveller]

If you are not willing to change religion, and he isn't either (most Muslim countries have the death penalty for renouncing Islam, so even outside those places it is seen as beyond the pale to give up the religion by most Muslims), then the odds of this working are practically zero.

 

You should not feel pressured to change your religion either. Let's face it, sincere philosophical beliefs are formed by the core of our thoughts and feelings about life and the universe, you can't change them on a whim just to please someone. You can *pretend* - to yourself or others - that you have changed, but it will be a sham. To retain any self-integrity, you'll have to be true to your own personal beliefs about religion.

 

This means both you and him have differing views, and cannot/will not change them. It is wholly impossible for you to get married, you might as well accept that fact and break off. In future, do not get involved with people who have radically different beliefs to yourself.

[mental_traveller]

Definitely something you should iron out with him.

 

My only suggestion is that you should both be compromising here to make this work.

 

How can you compromise here though? They believe two very different things.

[mental_traveller]

Outside of America and other fundamentalist societies, it isn't so much of an issue because people, on the whole, tend to be less dogmatic about their beliefs and more respectful of others.

 

This isn't true, there are plenty of fundamentalists in other societies. America is more tolerant by far than most countries in the world. Islam has specific rules about marrying outside the faith, and husband/wife relations, and how the kids should be raised. If the guy is a practising muslim then he is going to follow these. If he is not a practising muslim then he wouldn't be asking her to convert.

[VIP]

If they just lived together without getting married, there wouldn't be a pressure to convert.

[taiko]

If they just lived together without getting married, there wouldn't be a pressure to convert.

You keep forgetting He is religious. Or atleast we think he is, Vixen has giving no evidence to contrdict that. So far while she has been able to act against the scripture of her faith. He has not acted against his. Just living together is not an option.

 

Instead of just Vixen's family being angry that she has mated with a man outside of her specific Christian denomination as in case with the Catholic exboyfriend or outside of Christendom entirely all of the sudden his family is upset also. Besides being jealous religions, "you only worship the one true God" Islam, Christianity and Judism share the belief that sex and cohabitation only occur in marriage.

 

Sure most can't live up to that standard, but living together openly is a lot different from going out and having sex in semi-secret.

[disgracian]

This isn't true, there are plenty of fundamentalists in other societies. America is more tolerant by far than most countries in the world.

Nonsense. Of the developed nations of the world, America is by far the most religiously superstitious and intolerant of minority groups. Any country compares favourably to Islamic theocracies, so you're setting the bar pretty low there.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

But, even if you only read what is here in this thread, you see that religions have certain beliefs, and those beliefs preclude people from marrying people of other faiths because they won't end up in heaven together and whatnot.

While a lot of people fly under that banner, their actual evidence is pretty thin where it counts. The reality is that it's not as black and white as you'd think. While the majority love to rally behind the 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 line of "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?" etc., few seem aware of 1 Corinthians 7:12-14's counterpoint (by the same author, no less) "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband."

 

So, suddenly the picture ceases to be so heavily supportive of the segregation camp.

I'm just saying you can't believe in something strongly and do the complete opposite and it's all okey-dokey somehow.

As the above quote demonstrates, it's hardly doing the complete opposite.

 

Cheers,

D.

[norajane]

While a lot of people fly under that banner, their actual evidence is pretty thin where it counts. The reality is that it's not as black and white as you'd think. While the majority love to rally behind the 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 line of "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?" etc., few seem aware of 1 Corinthians 7:12-14's counterpoint (by the same author, no less) "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband."

 

So, suddenly the picture ceases to be so heavily supportive of the segregation camp.

 

As the above quote demonstrates, it's hardly doing the complete opposite.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Again, all I'm saying is it's about what you believe. Whether there are Bible quotes to support one position or another, it depends on which quotes a person believes.

 

So if she believes the bit about being unequally yoked, then marriage outside her religion is unthinkable. If she believes the bit about sanctification through marriage, then maybe it is ok for her.

[taiko]

Any body can creatively pull out a quote or even a phrase to fit their own will. 1 Corinthians 7:10 state that this is for those already married. Further verses15 tells that if a spouse wants to leave because of the conversion, you were not a Christian at the time of the marriage, then let the spouse go. Then verses 17, 20 and 24 tell you to stay in the situation you were in at the time of acceptance of Christ. But then throughout the entire chapter Paul preaches, in his name not to marry at all and to put all energy into the Lord's work.

 

Ofcourse this is what Vixen is trying to do, pull a partial phrase out to fit her will. Her problem is the boyfriend may not be as willing to do the same to a Sura in the Holy Koran.

[Jinnah]

few seem aware of 1 Corinthians 7:12-14's counterpoint (by the same author, no less) "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband."

 

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I am VERY aware of this verse, and so is every other Christian I know. That is why your wife is not to leave you, since you are ALREADY married. If that was not in the scripture, people would have left their spouses and committed the sin of divorce. Taiko summed it up wonderfully. You can't pick and choose Biblical verses and bend them to conform to your argument.

[sb129]

I am VERY aware of this verse, and so is every other Christian I know. That is why your wife is not to leave you, since you are ALREADY married. If that was not in the scripture, people would have left their spouses and committed the sin of divorce. Taiko summed it up wonderfully. You can't pick and choose Biblical verses and bend them to conform to your argument.

 

Why not? Nearly every christian I know has done some picking and choosing at some point or other, or listened to a preacher/priest/vicar doing so.

 

If one was to take EVERY passage in the bible literally, then one would be very confused, as there are hundreds of contradictions all the way through it.

 

Divorce is OK by some religions, not by others.

 

I think everyone is united against homosexuality though- which is why Sir Ian McKellen rips those pages out of the bible in every hotel room he stays in. Go Gandalf!