Wife is considering walking

[Conrad35]

I've been browsing other posts the last couple days, and have found some good info, but would appreciate any advice regarding my current situation. I'm a newbie, so please excuse any lack of appropriate abbreviations (is there a reference to help figure out what they mean?... some are obvious to me, but others are not).

 

My W and I are both 35. We've been married for 9 years (together for 12), and have 2 kids (ages 6 and 3). Until about 6 months ago, I had always felt our marriage was above average and that we were both generally happy with things.

 

I could write a novel about what's happened the last 6 months, so I'll try to keep it short. In March, I discovered W was having an EA with a guy she had met at a music festival in Vegas (we live in Cali, and OM lives in Montana). Before the EA was revealed, W went skiing with him (and his supposed GF) in MT. After doing some snooping and confronting, there were lots of lies before the truth came out. The final story I got was that W had feelings for him, but they were shortlived and misplaced... and she swears nothing physical ever happened.

 

For the first time, I realized my marriage was not so stable. I now had trust issues, and when we talked - W told me she had been unhappy for a long time... that she felt I had become emotionally unavailable and over time had withdrawn and she had built a wall. I felt blind-sided, but I'm sure there were signs and red flags that I never even noticed (if I only knew then what I know now). Anyhow, I decided to make it a point to do whatever necessary to save my marriage. I started reading and understanding the effort it takes to maintain a LTR.

 

I began to make major changes in how I priortized things, and took action to make sure she knew that she was the most important person in the world to me. The changes felt good, but I would get frustrated from time to time because I did not sense there was much change coming back in the opposite direction (felt it was a one sided push). Although things seemed to be getting better, I was still snooping due to lack of trust and continued to find things that led to more dishonesty (and what I felt reflected disrespect for the marriage). Around May/June W and OM stopped contacting each other, and as far as I know it has stayed that way.

 

In July, W took kids home to Wisconsin to visit her parents. All in all, things seemed to be going well and we had been to a counselor a couple times before she left. During the trip, W went to Chicago to hang out with a couple old friends (both female) for a weekend (without kids). After the weekend, I found out she also re-connected with an old BF who lived there. Their relationship ended (prior to meeting me) on a very sour note, and she had not talked to him in 12 years. She told me she thought she might be holding on to some old issues and felt talking would help (apparently she got the idea from a Scott Baio reality show in which he hires a life coach).

 

W told me that talking to her ex made her realize what a great H she has and that she realized she had not been making enough of an effort to rebuild the relationship. When she got back home, the first few days felt wonderful. However, she told me she wanted to maintain a friendship with her ex and assured me that she had absolutely no feelings for him anymore. I told her that as long as she was respecting our relationship, I was okay with it.

 

About a week after W got back, I sensed that things had faded back to how they were before the trip... not bad, but not like they were the first few days she returned. Then I uncovered the fact that she was not just maintaining contact with the ex, she had started a new e-mail account to hide the communications (she did this with the OM from Montana as well). Again, I confronted her and W swore it was nothing more than a friendship... and she feels she's been being policed and didn't want me to read into anything just due to the frequency of communication.

 

The next night, I thought we were going to continue our talk about the e-mail/dishonesty issue, but instead I got hit with the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" bomb... and apparently it's been that way for a long time. Once the details were revealed (about why she felt that way) and after some research, I discovered it's the classic Walking Wife Syndrome. It hurt to hear the truth, but I eventually told her I was glad to finally know what the underlying issue was. That's when I did a search and found LS. I decided I was willing to stick it out, and with continuing education and therapy - would be hopeful and persistent, but also would make sure I was prepared for what I could not control. W said she wanted to try to work things out and continue to see counselor.

 

A couple days later, I looked at her cell phone bill and saw that she had been talking to this ex so much in the last two weeks, she had racked up a bill over 700 dollars! I was pretty furious. Here I am, working to make a decent living for the family and she's blowing it talking for hours every day with her ex. I didn't scream or become verbally abusive, but said some things I probably shouldn't have (like "after seeing this, I don't love you either"). She admitted she had been talking to him a lot, but had no idea how expensive it was (she went to verizon the next morning and had the charges reduced to $140 by retroactively changing plans). She insisted there was nothing inappropriate about the content, but I told W I felt the volume was excessive and crossed the boundaries of what was comfortable and respectful. Internally, I knew that regardless of the content - W is finding ways to get her EN's met outside the marraige.

 

Yesterday, we went to therapy and the counselor basically took my side on the issue... that W is in denial about the significance of the relationship with ex, and there will be no way to nurture the marriage if W is fostering the other relationship at the same time (it will continue to drain energy from the marriage).

 

The MC indicated we're at a point where we need to decide whether we want to make it work (but that both of us need to be committed). W said she wants to make it work for the kids (she admits I'm a great dad and even says she likes being around me), but does not feel she will ever be able to regain feelings for me. My stance was that I want to make it work, but not willing to settle for a loveless marriage even though I can't imagine being apart from the family. We left the session agreeing that W would need to make this decision.

 

Last night, I asked W if she had thought about the decision. She said she had, but still didn't know what she wanted. The more we talked, the more I realized how hopeless W is in terms of falling in love again. Eventually, she reluctantly agreed to giving it a try - but didn't feel she should have to give up her friendship with her ex. I reitterated what the MC said, and told her I felt she would need to choose between me or ex... however, this part was left unresolved.

 

I feel good about the opportunity for more time, because I'm confident I can break down the barrier she's built. She is completely unattached from an emotional standpoint, and stated that last night. She acknowleges all the changes I had made, but says she doewn't know what else I can do to change how she feels. However, it's only been a week since she truly dropped the bomb, and I know it can take some time. If it doesn't work out, at least I'll know I gave it my all - and will be prepared to move on while continuing to do everything I can as a dad.

 

The real question I have now is... what actions (or behavior) will give me the best change of rekindling the relationship and keeping my family together? When I look at marriage builders, it seems I should be still trying to find ways to fill her love bank while stopping withdrawls (due to snooping, being judgemental, or rehashing old issues when discussing current ones). I've seen other advice on LS suggesting creation of distance (divorebusters 32 list), but that advice seemed to be given in situations where a formal separation had already occurred. I know I don't want to force anything or appear desperate, but really struggling with how to act moving forward.

 

Another thing I know is that my W hates talking about the serious issues. That's why I think she's been talking with her ex so much, because the converstion is free and easy and not filled with tension. I'm leaning towards just keeping things easy going and surfacy at home - trying to work on being a friend at this point (unless W initiates other conversation) and saving anything deep for therapy sessions. I feel like I should stop the snooping... but who knows what would have happened had I not been?

 

Any advice would be truly appreciated, especially from those who have been through this type of situation (either side of the fence). Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[DoomFlake]

Wow, that's rough. Especially with kids. My advice is that you should do everything reasonable to try and save your marriage. But if she's not interested in doing that, nothing that you do will change the final outcome. What you can do, though, is realize that no matter how hurt you are you have to behave not just like a husband, but a father. You should try and set a tone of respect for whatever happens from here.

[Conrad35]

Thanks DoomFlake. Good advice. Yes, very rough time. She's a great mother and a good person... which makes this all even more unbelievable to me.

[Woggle]

She is without a doubt cheating on you with the ex and it looks like you two are headed for divorce court. Don't blame yourself because many many men could have written the same story. I wouldn't file yet but start talking to a lawyer to get your legal ducks in a row.

[LakesideDream]

Conrad, as I read the first few paragraphs of your missive, all I could think about was "well buddy, just wait till the other shoe drops".

 

It dropped in the next paragraph. That's not to say that your task is an impossible one. Your wife has strayed twice, once by forming an emotional bond with a married man, next by flaming the fire with an "old flame". Luckily he was able to douse the flames with his spew in time for her to actually come home to her house and kids, and by fortunate (?) coincidence you.

 

The problems you face are myrid. You especially need to migrate to the land or reality. Your wife spent time in Chicago with her ex, comes home and spends $700 talking him on the phone in a limited amount of time?

Ah... they did more than talk in Chicago.

 

There is absolutely nothing more humiliating, degrading, and disgusting than being a cuckhold. I know I've been there. Welcome to the club. The first thing you need to do is "decode" her verbage. "Not willing to give up contact with the ex" is code for they have, and want to continue copulating with each other. This is reinforced by the phone bill.

 

"Love you but isn't in love with you" is hardly code anymore. It means I have a new love interest. Making up "secret" e-mail addresses is another classic. She knows perfectly well that what she is doing wrong and doesen't care, she's committed to meeting her needs at any cost whatever. BTW, if you don't have a keylogger, get one quick.

 

I wrote earlier that your situation wasn't impossible, it isn't. You probably have a 3% chance of coming out of this married to your current wife.

 

You do have a little bit of luck to be thankful for. You are finding out ahead of time. This could have happened to you in an hour. At least you have time to prepare.

 

I suggest you begin writing everything in a notebook. Password protect all the computers in the house so she can't access them. Keep very close track of her cel phone, and search three times a week for the one (different provider, "secret account") she has hidden from you.

 

And start making preperations for the day she decides to leave... it's coming. After lunch, the next argument, next month.

 

Sorry dude. Luck to you.

[LakesideDream]

Oh... and very important. Clean out all your bank accounts, trust accounts everything. If she finds out and has a cow, tell her why... she's cheating.

 

When you have the CASH.. buy gold, 1oz. Coins. Stash them at your mommie's house so you will have them when you need them, you will.

[jmargel]

What is it with women and their ex-bfs? If they were so freakin' great then why ditch them to begin with?

 

Conrad, listen.. From the posts I've read and replied over the years and especially with my own personal experience is that you have been rolling over and piddling too much lately.

 

I will give you a little info on my experience. During my engagement with my wife, she would call her ex now & then 'just as a friend' as she put it. Well, after the marriage she continued and it gotten alot worse. She was meeting up with him, going out , etc.. For every minute she thought, talked or saw him was another minute taken away from me and our marriage. She would easily become defensive and lay blanket statements on what was wrong with me and how our marriage problems are the result of me. I would admit she had me pretty well brain-washed and she had part of me believe that what she was doing is okay because of how I react to her (especially the situation we were in).

 

Long story short, friends on here and my personal friends would tell me to end it, what she was doing was cheating and even a psychologist told me that I was the parent and she the child in this marriage. She needed to step up and act like an adult so I can stop playing detective and actually be a husband once again. The psychologist told me that eventually her threats of leaving the marriage wouldn't be enough to keep me in the marriage, which sounds like your wife is doing as well. The 'Just watch me, I can leave this marriage anytime I want so you better continue to treat me well while I still talk to ex's and have affairs' attitude.

 

Well one morning it happened. I don't even remember what she said to me but the fear of losing her was overwhelmed by the fact that I wanted resolution in this marriage and I was tired of trying & trying and get nothing but disrespect and dishonesty. I just stared her down and told her I wanted her out of the house, the marriage was done. For the first time in all of this, she was speechless. I called her bluff. She was like a deer in headlights. I was sure she would gladly take me up on the offer, however her response was the complete opposite. Her telling me she wasn't leaving. Only then did I know the power I have given up in myself and this marriage. It was only then she started to change her ways.

 

I believe this is something you need to do, tough love is in order. You tolerate her cheating, disrespect and you will continue to endure more of it. How can you be in love with someone that you don't respect? Women LOVE confidence and in this situation you need to show it by giving her tough love. STOP waiting for her to make the decisions and start making them yourself. Honestly I would go home tonight tell her that you are tired of being dragged through the mud and you are moving on with your life, with or without her. Then SHOW it. Go out by yourself, seek out friends, do things that do not involve her. Don't tell her you love her (first), show her the man that you once were.

 

We often become the whipping boy without even realizing it until someone from outside the situation kicks us in the ass. I have to admit even after two years since my ordeal we still have alot of problems. Nothing to do with OM or anything like that, just her immature attitude and I have told her she is on very thin ice now and I WILL move on without her. I can have a peace of mind that I tried everything with her and that her attitude and personality is NOT a result of me. This is something you need to make yourself aware of with your wife as well.

 

Remember the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

[Conrad35]

Thanks J for your sharing your thoughts and personal experience. Can I ask whether kids were involved in your situation? If it weren't for the thought of not being able to see the kids everyday, I honestly think I would have already moved on.

 

I love my W very much, but I've always had a lot of self respect. This is why I've resorted to detective work (so I can at least confront her and stand up for myself). With the kids, I just feel there's too much to lose without giving it at least some more time. I made it clear the other night that I will have no decision to move on if I continue to be dragged through the mud.... and I'm not going to wait around if she drags out the decision about whether she at least wants to commit to "trying". She said she wants to try to make it work, but I know actions speak louder than words. We shall see...

[Woggle]

These are the same bfs they dumped to go find themselves and they had fallen out of love. If yopu two ever get divorced and she finds somebody else she will probably be calling you to cheat on him.

[jmargel]

Thanks J for your sharing your thoughts and personal experience. Can I ask whether kids were involved in your situation? If it weren't for the thought of not being able to see the kids everyday, I honestly think I would have already moved on.

 

I love my W very much, but I've always had a lot of self respect. This is why I've resorted to detective work (so I can at least confront her and stand up for myself). With the kids, I just feel there's too much to lose without giving it at least some more time. I made it clear the other night that I will have no decision to move on if I continue to be dragged through the mud.... and I'm not going to wait around if she drags out the decision about whether she at least wants to commit to "trying". She said she wants to try to make it work, but I know actions speak louder than words. We shall see...

 

No kids when that was happening but she is 10 weeks pregnant now, which was not planned. It has created ALOT of problems for us and has really made me look at our marriage again.

 

Kids are better off coming from a broken home then living in one. By you staying with her, that is showing the kids it is ok to disrespect, lie and mistreat the ones you love. That is not the correct way to bring up children.

Not sure if you live in a no-fault state but if you don't you could prove she has been cheating and emotionally/verbally abusive. It might help you with the custody.

 

Actions do speak louder than words and if she's not willing to goto counseling then nothing will change. Honestly how much more does she need to do to you and the kids before you snap out of it? She is treating your dog (if you have one) better than you. It's because of her immaturity and if you look back you can probably now see these traits. Honestly I don't have anymore patience or time for immature, selfish women, doesn't matter if they are your wife or not.

[Woggle]

Honestly I don't have anymore patience or time for immature, selfish women, doesn't matter if they are your wife or not.

 

I fully agree. If my wife ever starts flaking out I am just going to get it over with and divorce her. My tolerance for female drama and emotional games is at 0 and I will never put up with it. I just don't need it in my life.

[Mz. Pixie]

You especially need to migrate to the land or reality. Your wife spent time in Chicago with her ex, comes home and spends $700 talking him on the phone in a limited amount of time?

Ah... they did more than talk in Chicago.

 

 

I agree. In my first marriage I was the classic walk away wife- had an affair and all that too.

 

If they haven't had sex, I would bet that they are working up a plan to do so.

 

A man doesn't talk on the phone to a woman that much unless he's trying to hit it or is hitting it. Think about that for a minute.

 

Plus, cheaters all say the same things- and they all think they are original in what they say. They usually admit to the lesser offense first when caught- and truly usually have to be completely busted before they will admit it. Some never fully admit it.

 

I would advise you to invest in a book called Love Must be tough by James Dobson if you haven't already.

 

Then, get a keylogger for your computer. See where she's going and what she's doing. Get a voice activated recorder and stash it in her car to see what their conversations are like when she's in the car.

 

To mend your marriage she is going to absolutely have to have NO CONTACT for life with the OM. Right now it's apparent that she's not going to do that- so that should tell you she prioritizes his feelings over yours.

 

Also, see an attorney and find out what your legal rights are. You don't have to file for divorce but find out exactly what you need to find out to protect yourself.

[Cobra_X30]

Thanks J for your sharing your thoughts and personal experience. Can I ask whether kids were involved in your situation? If it weren't for the thought of not being able to see the kids everyday, I honestly think I would have already moved on.

 

I love my W very much, but I've always had a lot of self respect. This is why I've resorted to detective work (so I can at least confront her and stand up for myself). With the kids, I just feel there's too much to lose without giving it at least some more time. I made it clear the other night that I will have no decision to move on if I continue to be dragged through the mud.... and I'm not going to wait around if she drags out the decision about whether she at least wants to commit to "trying". She said she wants to try to make it work, but I know actions speak louder than words. We shall see...

 

Conrad,

 

Hey, Im a kid that grew up in a situation like this. I'm going to tell you right now that what you W is doing will hurt them more than watching you walk out that door!!!!!!

 

It took me 6 months of living with my worthless no good mom to move in with my dad. Jmargel is spot on! There is nothing on this planet worse than watching your dad put up with this kind of abuse! Mom is maybe a lost cause.... mine was. BUT the only thing worse than 1 Effed up parent is 2.

 

Pull your head out... not for you... but for your kids.

[Conrad35]

Thanks to all of you for your sincere advice. W's mom and grandma are visiting and staying with us for a few days (tomorrow is daughters birthday party). When I got home from work yesterday I talked to my W. I told her that I'm not a mind reader and want to know what the situation is with the ex. She said she did not talk to him the day before, but had contacted him earlier that day to discuss some info she got during a meeting with a Court Reporters school... which she had discussed with me as well (the ex is in the deposition business and had mentioned to her that being a Court Reporter is a great job for a mom that wants to choose her working hours).

 

I told the W that it would be really helpful if she could share her inner thoughts and feelings with me from time to time so I don't have to wonder (we talk about the regular everyday stuff, but she just won't open up to me about what she wants for the marriage). Earlier in the conversation, she had reitterated that she wants to give the marriage a try - but I just don't see any effort. However, when I asked her to share her thoughts she became somewhat defensive and said that right now she's thinking she doesn't know if she wants to be in the marriage.

 

I asked her about the feelings she had for me when she was in Chicago, and she said they were real but faded after she got back home. I asked how they could change so quick simply due to location... and she said that in Chicago she felt free, but when she comes back she feels like she's dictated by a schedule (this is being said while she's getting in the car to leave for a Mom's night dinner with friends). I told her that's something called life, and the reason people take vacations in the first place. She said she's just not happy and doesn't really know why... that she's happy when we're together with the kids, but not happy with us... that she feels numb and like there's a hole inside her.

 

The more I hear, the more I'm starting to believe that she's just not happy and it has absolutely nothing to do with me or the marriage (and it's more clear to me now why my efforts during the previous 6 months have not changed a thing). After she left, I talked to her mom. Her mom was actually already aware of the marriage situation and the ex, but didn't have all the details such as the EA with the guy in montana and the $700 phone bill. Her mom said she's talked to W about the fact that she has to find a way to be happy for herself and stop blaming it on other people, but all the talk in the world is just not working. Her mom told me that she know's how hard I've tried (W has told mom about all the efforts I've made the last 6 months), and no matter what happens she will always consider me a son.

 

W and I have a counseling session scheduled for 8/27 (someone on a previous post stated W was refusing to see counselor, but this is not the case). I've decided that if nothing changes by then, I'm going to confirm my decision to move on. It would be one thing if W was just going through some times but was still being respectful (I would let the past go and give it more time... remain hopeful for the kids sake). However, unless things change in a hurry - I can't just sit around and continue to be treated with disrespect and dishonesty.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to talk to an attorney about my legal rights and options.

[sumdude]

Well Conrad it sure doesn't sound like your W is in the marriage. To be honest I would be questioning this "Mom's night out".

 

Start now, before you move out, before you move on .... start acting and knowing that you are. Get out and do things for yourself by yourself. Stop talking about the marriage, stop asking what she's doing. Stop trying to fix it. Just pull away. Be nice but very distant, as if you already have separated in your mind. This does two things, it prepares you for the actual move and gives her a taste of life without you in it.

 

OR

 

Just do it ... tell her you've had it with a half - a$$ed marriage and wife, you're ready to move out. (after you talk with your lawyer)

[Gunny376]

W and I have a counseling session scheduled for 8/27 (someone on a previous post stated W was refusing to see counselor, but this is not the case). I've decided that if nothing changes by then, I'm going to confirm my decision to move on. It would be one thing if W was just going through some times but was still being respectful (I would let the past go and give it more time... remain hopeful for the kids sake). However, unless things change in a hurry - I can't just sit around and continue to be treated with disrespect and dishonesty.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to talk to an attorney about my legal rights and options.

 

Well Conrad it sure doesn't sound like your W is in the marriage. To be honest I would be questioning this "Mom's night out".

 

Start now, before you move out, before you move on .... start acting and knowing that you are. Get out and do things for yourself by yourself. Stop talking about the marriage, stop asking what she's doing. Stop trying to fix it. Just pull away. Be nice but very distant, as if you already have separated in your mind. This does two things, it prepares you for the actual move and gives her a taste of life without you in it.

 

OR

 

Just do it ... tell her you've had it with a half - a$$ed marriage and wife, you're ready to move out. (after you talk with your lawyer)

 

Going from a marriage and family ~ the day to day ~ can be an adjustment ~ but once you get to the otherside, stick with it long enough to become comfortable with it ~ well these days I question why in the Hell I would ever get married again.

 

I was married for 12 years ~ did a shack up for six and half more with another gal. Maybe I've just not meet the right one, but I put way more into into both of them than I got out of the deal. Mentally, emotionally, financially, etc. Basically all I got out of either one of them was, well sex? And I know that goes against some sort of "man-code" but ladies please read "Light His Fire".

 

Man does not live by sex alone! If sex was all we were in it for ~ we'd just get ourselves a hooker!

[jdp1955]

You have written my story to a t. However, I'm still messing with it 5 years later.

 

My opinion, sad to say, is that she is gone and won't come back. I was unwise and we got back together but I knew in my heart she didn't want to..I was just too unwise to see reality. I should have divorced her the moment she left the home without my consent. Now I have a big mess 5 years later that will just be much more expense and I have lost 5 years of my life trying to get this all to work out.....I am tired, older and wiser...and would just like a normal life.

 

Good luck.

[jmargel]

I would have said to use tough love and all except for the one line I read from you

 

that she feels numb and like there's a hole inside her.

 

That is a clear indication that she believes the marriage is pretty much over. The reason I know is, that is the exact words I told my wife this past Saturday and telling her it was over. I believe there are things that you have left out in telling us. Go way back, I mean years with how your communication was and how your marriage was going. Were you distant, disrespectful, unloving? Comfortable to the point that you took her for granted? Were you two more like roommates then husband/wife?

 

When I told my wife this past weekend (actually friday night) I don't think she took me seriously. It wasn't until Sat. night (I ignored her the whole day and did my own thing) after she sat down and asked me 'You really want me to leave?' 'Yes' was my answer that she knew I was not kidding. It was just about a two-hour conversation. She hasn't left and it trying to 'suck up' and also it is our wedding anniversary today. Trying to be extra nice or acting in that way doesn't take away the numbness or the pain that was inflicted to you over the years. However your wife trying to find what she is missing with another guy is not going to work. I would not do that, however I can understand how easy it would be to find solice in that. Though it would be only temporary, which is why they call it a rebound relationship.

 

The communication between you two has been severly lacking. The BEST suggestion I could give you at this point is to not give her any ultamatiums. Let her know that you understand that she is going through her own demons right now and she is hurt in some way. That you won't tolerate any sort of cheating but that you will be here ready to listen when she wants to talk. Let her come to you, treat her like she is a scared cat.

 

When someone is hurt emotionally the last thing they want is their spouse pressuring them on getting back together or making a decision. That hurt spouse has to 'want' to be in the relationship. Only then is there something to build on.

[NSBR]

You and I are in similar situations where you feel you have done all you can and the wife just can't find the spark for you any more no matter what you try to do. You push, you pull, you do everything you can to make it work, but eventually you need to realize that you are fighting a losing battle.

 

Start preparing yourself and start taking the steps to move forward.

 

Picture a life without her in your mind and see it without fear.

 

Picture a life with her and see it with hope, but view it only in the context where she is committed to making it work with you. Don't allow yourself to 'settle'.

 

Execute your plan.

 

The only thing I'm trying to work on is how to find that balance between 'getting over it' and 'keep hope alive'. I'm just starting so I'm taking it one battle at a time!!!