My Wife found out about me

[smoochygirl]

I agree, and I think criticism is good. But you left one word out...negative. Ans yes, negative criticism is not all bad. What happens here to often is that people face the accusations and "flaming" that does nothing for helping him or her deal with his problem.

 

Let me quote from another thread...

 

 

 

And that is what I think people look for and expect. And that is what we should strive to give.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Right now people are trying to give him an advice, there might be some advice that is not pleasant to hear but that is the reality that he is facing right now. Should we support him in what he is doing right now? lying to his wife? lying to OW? We are trying to let him see the reality and consequences of the decision he is making. Thats why i found this site to be interesting because we don't support people here who lost their way, we are guiding them walk the right path in life.

[luvstarved]

I have to agree with H2T. And yes, I have read his threads.

 

Matt came here because he knows he did wrong yet he is confused about his feelings. I am not sure what he wants here, but he DID come here. I think one of the best things about LS is that people are here to listen and give advice. However, one of the negatives is that people who come here for advice also face the possibility of negative criticism, but I don't think all of them expect it...nor do I think they SHOULD receive that type of criticism.

 

Well yes there is some soulless bashing that goes on, but as you said the guy did come here looking for feedback. If we are to decide that "well we don't really know these people so can't come to any conclusions" then what kind of meaningful feedback can he expect to get? If we are to decide that we are to be strictly kind and emotionally supportive to people who come here and "there there" them only, then how are we to get through to those who might need to be seriously bitch-slapped back to reality?

 

I agree that we cannot really second guess who the wife and OW are, their needs and intentions and moral character are only what he has chosen to say and is his perception of them. When it comes to relationships, though, perception is a lot.

 

He has presented himself in a certain way here and the way he comes across is all we can respond to. But that is what he has asked for.

 

I don't think the guy is evil, I think he is seriously flawed. We are all flawed, but he has a huge issue with selfishness and lack of consideration for others. His posts totally reek of it. He needs to address that if he really has any sincere desire to participate in a mature relationship with anyone.

 

Remember, by his own admission, he was happy as a clam to lie to the OW, string her along, while knowing he had no intention of leaving his wife, just so he could have what he wanted. He did not come to loveshack during the course of all of this feeling like a rat bastard...he came to loveshack only after it all blew up in his face and only to try to get someone to give him a pat answer as to how he was supposed to choose and how he was supposed to cope with not having it all.

 

There have been scads of thoughtful and insightful responses to his situation. He has not really responded to them in kind. The only time he made any kind of pros/cons analysis was about the OWs character, whether she could really be trusted, was a good relationship gamble, etc.

 

He says that he wants to alleviate his confusion but he does not really show that he is doing any sort of looking in the mirror. Most of his later posts are venting because the OW, whose feelings he wanted to protect in the wake of having to admit that he knowingly deceived her, was not acting upset enough to suit him. He is even now continuing to lie to his wife's face, about how he loves her, while at the same time thinking she is a bore and he can't stop thinking about the other one. Basically hedging his bets all around.

 

If you added up all of these posts, it would probably be 1/3 leave the OW, 1/3 leave the wife and 1/3 you don't deserve either of them. I've been guilty of tossing out such responses, and of getting peeved by his obvious selfishness too.

 

But in the end, none of us can give him the pat answer he would like. We can only offer food for thought. And we can only offer it up on the plate he puts in front of us.

 

But whatever else is going on, I would think that we could all agree that Matt needs help with himself. He needs to quit trying to ask others whether he should stay or go, and start asking himself why he is unable to make that decision. What kind of man is he that he has this huge need to be seen as the shining knight, why he needs people to comply with his expectations, why he seems to genuinely lack empathy for others, why he really does not even seem to understand his own values, why he is unable to integrate security and passion into one relationship and why he can "know" he is wrong yet somehow not fully "feel" he is wrong. These are his real problems.

 

Without addressing those very real issues, any decision he makes is really just a stopgap, or an arbitrary game of eenie-meanie-minie-mo. And that's not going to make any of them happy.

 

Unfortunately, he merrily let this situation come to pass and now has caused great emotional turmoil for others he claims to love, and he does not really have the luxury of making them stand by while he goes off and figures himself out. He really does need to make an immediate decision.

 

I really do hope that in the wake of all of this, he WILL do that self-examination in therapy, etc. I would prefer to hear that he worked things out with his wife in the end, but under the current circumstances, it is impossible to really say what would be the best net decision.

[sandim]

Matt,

Welcome back. You are not unlike most any other husband who has cheated that I have ever read or talked to. You are not unlike my own husband. Why do you think that he continued the affair after he saw her? Because he felt the same way, those same feel good feelings come rushing right back, along with wondering if he was committing himself to feeling like he was torn between two women.

Of course you mean what you say to your wife, and you mean what you say to the OW too......why because you care for both on some level.

What you need to decide Matt is which one you are going to choose. And choose you must my friend, otherwise one of them is going to make the choice for you and you may find that you don't get to make the choice anymore.

You say you have been involved with the OW for a few months. I can almost guarantee you that love, not genuine love anyway, is not what you are feeling. What you are feeling is the sexual rush of a new relationship, the tension filled charge in the air, the feel good, it's all about me vibes that she sends you.....

I am not going to tell you what choice you should make, only that you need to make one. And I am also going to tell you that I don't think seeing her ( OW that is) if that is who you choose to let go, is the right decision, in fact, I believe that is the completely wrong one to make. Those feel good feelings and thoughts are going to come rushing back compounded by her crying, or whatever her reaction is to you telling her, and you will feel guilt and indecision all over again.

I wish you luck my friend, you remind me so much of my husband, and his thought processes. I hope that you don't cause your wife as much pain as my husband caused me by all of that indecision and continued contact.

Sandi

[sandim]

I'm not being fair to either of these women, particularly my Wife

 

I always wanted to put my W and Kids first, always wanted to do 'the right thing' - is it so wrong that I felt 'what about me?' after a few years? Am i so evil for thinking i deserved something too?

 

My head hurts. Think I need some sleep

No Matt, you aren't evil for thinking that you deserved something too, but what is wrong is that you thought that you could get that outside your marriage. YOU CAN find something inside your marriage, but you have to put as much into it as you want to take out of it. Don't you think that your wife felt much the same way at times? Like she was nothing more than mommy or wifey every day? Like she stopped being a woman and started being just mommy? I can promise you that she did feel like that at times. I know that I did.

I wish that I could knock some sense into your head, because I fear my friend that your indecision is going to cost you something that you are ill prepared to loose......and I hope that doesn't happen.

Sandi

[Storyrider]

There is a fine line between offering criticism versus personal attacks. The thing about berating him for expressing selfish feelings, is that isn't going to change the way he thinks or feels right now. It will just make him hesitant to post his true feelings here, which isn't good.

 

Yes, he needs practical advice, but he also needs a place to vent. He can't really confide in his wife or the other woman about everything that he is feeling, and he needs a safe place to do that.

[luvstarved]

Of course you mean what you say to your wife, and you mean what you say to the OW too......why because you care for both on some level.

 

Or, it keeps them where he needs them to be emotionally while he stalls for time.

 

Or, it makes him appear to be the good guy in their eyes and his own, too!

 

Or, he is too weak and/or fearful to tell the truth.

 

Or, he has multiple personalities.

 

Or, a part of him is hoping that if he plays his cards right with both of them, he might just get to go back to having his cake and eating it, too!

 

Or, he himself never knows what the f**k he actually means.

 

Or any combination of any of the above, including the "cares" theory.

[Road Rage]

Come on now, yall makin too much of this thang. It`s just another man cheating on his wife.

 

No need to make it conplicated:lmao:

[Trialbyfire]

One thing I would like to mention which appears to have escaped everyone, is the night he and I had a one-on-one discussion. He wanted to be heavily criticized, he asked for it straight, was looking for someone to shake some sense into him.

[luvstarved]

One thing I would like to mention which appears to have escaped everyone, is the night he and I had a one-on-one discussion. He wanted to be heavily criticized, he asked for it straight, was looking for someone to shake some sense into him.

 

That is true, and his responses that night showed his nature. You brought up his kids and he responded with a one line "yes I thought of them" and then proceeded to rant about the OW... another gem was where he described his wife's expression of her pain and then said "imagine how sh*tty that made me feel after 7 years of being devoted to her".

 

I do think it is good that he is looking for answers, and I think that getting him to look at himself and have these things pointed out to him are a major part of helping him to get them.

[Tomcat33]

One thing I would like to mention which appears to have escaped everyone, is the night he and I had a one-on-one discussion. He wanted to be heavily criticized, he asked for it straight, was looking for someone to shake some sense into him.

 

 

NO where in the thread does it say he is asking to be heavily criticized, in fact in response to an attack he asked a poster to NOT attack him because he is already feeling down. C'mon!! Furthermore I find it extremely disloyal to him that if he said certain things to you one on one you come on her professing to know what he wants given what he spoke to you one on one. Matt has NOT asked anywher in this thread to be heavily criticized, help yes not the latter.

 

With all the bickering and heavy criticism all we will achieve is to scare off another poster seeking help. How is that helpful in ANY WAY?

[Trialbyfire]

I do think it is good that he is looking for answers, and I think that getting him to look at himself and have these things pointed out to him are a major part of helping him to get them.

I strongly agree. Btw, your post pointing out the issues that matty has to resolve within himself, was excellent.

[East of Jupiter]

I strongly agree. Btw, your post pointing out the issues that matty has to resolve within himself, was excellent.

 

Yes and yes.

 

Many have shared excellent advice. Heck I don't agree with everyone else's advice but I figure like belly buttons, we all have one, right?

 

I don't think it helps to tip toe around a person who is obviously tighfly wound around themselves. I also learned and I practice myself, paying close attention to the things that others point out or say that get to me. Often, it is the only way a truth penetrates a person's offensive/defensive protective shell. (and by offensive I mean that person is on the offense not defense) Self included. Heck it was something a few people said here that got to me which led me to my own recent breakthrough (a turd is a turd is a turd)

 

I don't have the awesome discipline I admired in others here. Some things still get to me. I can sympathize with the BW and with the OW in most cases. A man who acts careless with those who care, love and depend on him? Not so much. I admit it.

[Trialbyfire]

NO where in the thread does it say he is asking to be heavily criticized, in fact in response to an attack he asked a poster to NOT attack him because he is already feeling down. C'mon!! Furthermore I find it extremely disloyal to him that if he said certain things to you one on one you come on her professing to know what he wants given what he spoke to you one on one. Matt has NOT asked anywher in this thread to be heavily criticized, help yes not the latter.

 

With all the bickering and heavy criticism all we will achieve is to scare off another poster seeking help. How is that helpful in ANY WAY?

The one on one is within this thread. I recommend you read it.

[East of Jupiter]

I don't think criticism is the issue. Criticism, if meaningful, can be very helpful.

 

What I find is that some people take it personally that he cheated on his wife and they launch personal attacks against him as a result. He already has an angry wife and possibly an angry OW. Just a week ago, they both loved him. He doesn't need a board full of people calling him names and telling him to leave his wife.

 

This can be very true. I do take each and every family being hurt personally. Sometimes it is the child of the cheater in me, sometimes taking my Mom's side of the affair, sometimes it is my own shame for having been no better in the past.

 

I don't think taking things personally is a bad thing in itself. It makes us human. We don't seem to do enough of it these days.

 

Cheating is a form of emotional abuse which is perpetrated not just on the unsuspecting spouse but also the children involved, extended family (BW/CH) as well as the OW and her children (if any) and her extended family.

 

If his wife was getting black eyes instead of being emotionally battered would you feel we have more of a reason to take it personally? If this man was telling us that she deserved that black eye because she wasn't keeping him happy? Or maybe he was just curious about how it would feel to give his wife a black eye?

 

He may as well. Only it is not a black eye, it's a black and blue heart.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes and yes.

 

Many have shared excellent advice. Heck I don't agree with everyone else's advice but I figure like belly buttons, we all have one, right?

 

I don't think it helps to tip toe around a person who is obviously tighfly wound around themselves. I also learned and I practice myself, paying close attention to the things that others point out or say that get to me. Often, it is the only way a truth penetrates a person's offensive/defensive protective shell. (and by offensive I mean that person is on the offense not defense) Self included. Heck it was something a few people said here that got to me which led me to my own recent breakthrough (a turd is a turd is a turd)

 

I don't have the awesome discipline I admired in others here. Some things still get to me. I can sympathize with the BW and with the OW in most cases. A man who acts careless with those who care, love and depend on him? Not so much. I admit it.

Yeap. I'm not much for the soft-sell routine and I'm not here to impress people with how many friends I can make in an LS thread. I tend to call a spade a spade. Hopefully some of it gets through. matty seemed to appreciate it because he thanked me for it within this thread. I can only gauge my comments based on his comments.

[East of Jupiter]

I find it sad that he was willing to risk a 7 year marriage and a beautiful family for someone of very low moral fibre.

 

Honey men risk for a lot less than that. Ask my husband. He is just now realizing what he gambled and what he has lost. It isn't pretty.

 

I'm certain he sounded as charming as this poster a few years back. Oh the bravado of ego! A fluffly rooster. That is often the image I get.

 

It never fails. There will come that moment when the lies will fall away and the real man is revealed. Only then, when there are no more lies keeping you in denial that you start to recognize the true depth of pain you have caused others. Usually for what amounts to very little in the scope of life.

 

A bird in the hand is definately worth more than two in the bush.

 

(no pun intended, I think)

[East of Jupiter]

Yeap. I'm not much for the soft-sell routine and I'm not here to impress people with how many friends I can make in an LS thread. I tend to call a spade a spade. Hopefully some of it gets through. matty seemed to appreciate it because he thanked me for it within this thread. I can only gauge my comments based on his comments.

 

 

Well I grew up with a spade so I've had no small amount of practice. Only he wasn't a stranger or my husband, he was my dad.

 

And this guy, he sounds like my dad. Somehow entitled. He too didn't think past his own needs and thought that since he wasn't married to his kids, he didn't owe us any fidelity. We were props to be appreciated and loved at his convenience.

 

Yeah, that worked out real well for him let me tell ya.

[Trialbyfire]

Honey men risk for a lot less than that. Ask my husband. He is just now realizing what he gambled and what he has lost. It isn't pretty.

 

I'm certain he sounded as charming as this poster a few years back. Oh the bravado of ego! A fluffly rooster. That is often the image I get.

 

It never fails. There will come that moment when the lies will fall away and the real man is revealed. Only then, when there are no more lies keeping you in denial that you start to recognize the true depth of pain you have caused others. Usually for what amounts to very little in the scope of life.

 

A bird in the hand is definately worth more than two in the bush.

 

(no pun intended, I think)

One of the most difficult things was for my ex-H to honestly look at what he had become and the pain he had put me through. No doubt I did my fair share of causing reciprocal pain but it was the only way I could get him to stop lying, not that he had an affair but what it had entailed. Each time he lied, I pulled out the evidence provided by the PI or found by myself and called him on it. Slowly, one tooth extraction at a time, the truth came out. All of it.

 

I can say that I don't know what the outcome would have been if he'd come clean immediately on his own. Who knows, maybe we'd still be married. Maybe...

 

So anyways, we both went through individual therapy, him far, far longer than I, due to the need to reroute his NPD impulses. He's become a new man from it and I can say that I kind of like this new guy. I don't know if I'll ever trust him again but we're now friends with a clear understanding from me, that I will never take him back. He does keep trying though. Can't fault the man for his perserverance, regret and true remorse.

 

I'm telling this portion of my story so that matty can see and understand how not coming clean right away can sabotage any hope for the marriage to continue and destroy two people in the process. That we both survived was due to a ton of support and therapy. It was horrendous.

[mattym]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd check back in

 

I'm repeating myself, but thank you SO much for all the kind posters who have offered constructive advice and insights into the whys and hows this happened

 

Nothing absolves me from what I've done, but I honestly an reading and trying to understand why I did what i did - it was almost an unconcious act

 

I've downloaded the Katie Coston PDF - very interesting ( a little too christian for me, but some excellent points nonetheless)

 

Anyway, an update - life remains tense around the house. W brings it up EVERYDAY in conversation, which having read here I anticipated, so whenever she makes a comment poking at me, I reply ' I know, I'm sorry. i do love you' so it defuses any arguments, which so far seems to have helped.

 

I recognise this next comment makes me Evil incarnate with some, but nevertheless - thoughts of OW continue to enter my mind, I guess almost like withdrawal symptoms from some drug or other. What I'm trying top do is to focus on all her negative points, to convince myself I've had a lucky escape, so that I won't feel so confused. I won't pretend it's easy though and obviously I can't talk about that to my W

 

You may recall I said I was trying to meet with OW for a face-to-face? Well, that hasn't happened

 

She went on her 'night out' - I had said ' we should meet the following day to talk' and she'd said ' I'm not promising anything'

 

Anyway lunchtime she text me and said:

 

"Hi i'm awake but I have 3 people upstairs asleep! Will explain later, will have to cancel. Sorry"

 

Besides the fact that she's avoiding me, I almost feel like pointing out to her that at 30 years of age, going out and getting drunk for all the fairweather friends you've picked up to use your place to crash out at is something you're only supposed to do for PART of your life, not at her age

 

Still, not my problem. Thank God my family life has ( so far) remained intact - I think she needs to grow up (as do I)

[Hurt & Alone]

When my rel with my MM ended I acted much like what she is. I went out drinking to avoid the feelings. I do not think she needs to grow up. When you said you loved her and now she probably knows that she cant have that anymore she wants the feelings that are there to go away. Alcohol and the entire atmoshere allows the OP to cope with emotions even if it is just for a short while.

[mattym]

When my rel with my MM ended I acted much like what she is. I went out drinking to avoid the feelings. I do not think she needs to grow up. When you said you loved her and now she probably knows that she cant have that anymore she wants the feelings that are there to go away. Alcohol and the entire atmoshere allows the OP to cope with emotions even if it is just for a short while.

 

I can see what you're saying, but wouldn't it better to have some sort of closure, rather than just putting it off? I want to get this over with so we can both on

[OpenBook]

Besides the fact that she's avoiding me, I almost feel like pointing out to her that at 30 years of age, going out and getting drunk for all the fairweather friends you've picked up to use your place to crash out at is something you're only supposed to do for PART of your life, not at her age

 

So, instead "at her age" she should be like your W -- married with 2 small children, and going through the devastation of discovering her H's infidelity? What exactly are you recommending here?

[OpenBook]

Anyway lunchtime she text me and said:

 

"Hi i'm awake but I have 3 people upstairs asleep! Will explain later, will have to cancel. Sorry"

 

Then text her back with this: "Its over. Im staying with my family. Have a nice life."

 

There - problem solved. You're done!

[silktricks]

I can see what you're saying, but wouldn't it better to have some sort of closure, rather than just putting it off? I want to get this over with so we can both on

You are assuming that she wants closure so you can both move on. She doesn't. She wants things the way they were a few weeks ago at worst, and you to herself at best.

 

Things are not going her way so she wants to ignore and ignore. They she can pretend that things will go her way in the future. Please read what happened with my H's OW (I posted it earlier in this thread). It sounds pretty much like what could happen with you.

 

You have the power to close this so that you and your wife can move on, like OB just said.

[luvstarved]

Anyway, an update - life remains tense around the house. W brings it up EVERYDAY in conversation, which having read here I anticipated, so whenever she makes a comment poking at me, I reply ' I know, I'm sorry. i do love you' so it defuses any arguments, which so far seems to have helped.

 

I recognise this next comment makes me Evil incarnate with some, but nevertheless - thoughts of OW continue to enter my mind, I guess almost like withdrawal symptoms from some drug or other. What I'm trying top do is to focus on all her negative points, to convince myself I've had a lucky escape, so that I won't feel so confused. I won't pretend it's easy though and obviously I can't talk about that to my W

 

Matt, most of us do not think you are evil but we are trying to get you to think about this more clearly. Listen to yourself, man! You are acting indignant about the way YOU are being treated by two women that YOU have deceived and betrayed!! Yes it is honest, that's great! But get some HELP with that!

 

Good about your wife, except that "EVERYDAY" emphasis that smacks of a little voice inside you that seems to be saying "Sheesh, enough already". You won't be able to reassure her enough for quite some time but you need to keep trying. If you are thinking about her pain in terms of what an irritation it is to you, you are continuing to be unfair and failing to understand her point of view.

 

As to the OW, this is where I really wish I could bitch-slap you in person.

 

I'm just going to list out some of the highlights of what it appears to me you aren't seeing...

1) You do not miss the OW. You miss what she did for YOU.

2) You clearly used her and did not have any feelings of love EVER for her. You have never expressed real remorse for leading her to believe that there was more of a relationship than there was.

3) The "lucky escape" was mutual. How would she have been well served to have the A continue? Become more emotionally attached? Been COMPLETELY destroyed when you finally got bored and revealed the dishonorable intentions you had for her all along?

4) The "being used" angle may also have been mutual. Did not she talk about you mainly in terms of what you did for HER?

5) Her past history indicates that she may be "addicted to love" too. Can you not on the one hand realize this is not a good thing for you to be involved with, yet on the other realize that she also has "honest feelings" that she is not mature enough to control? Why are you allowed to have unsavory selfish thoughts and behaviors but everyone else is supposed to be all adult about this?

6) She might be avoiding you in hopes that you will change your mind once you are apart from her and realize how much you "need her". If that rings true, remember it well.

7) YES YES YES this is EXACTLY like drug withdrawal. If she were crack cocaine, you would be clear on at least knowing that she was not good for you. THINK OF HER AS CRACK COCAINE THEN! Read about addiction and learn. Then be thankful and relieved for every day you survive without her. One day at a time, as they say.

8) Keeping in mind that she is not good for you is not an attack on her character. Thinking negative thoughts about her while justifying yourself is not all you need to do to grow up and move on. Everyone in this situation is living with their own brand of "screwed up". FOCUS ON YOURS. Think about what YOU can do better, not how others are treating you.