The concept of marriage as the "Endpoint"

[Krytellan]

I have recently been talking to a few people about marriage, both in talking about my failed one and talking about others' potential ones, and it struck me. It seems that a lot of people, and I have to lean toward females in particular, seem to envision marriage as an endpoint. Like it's a moment that says, "there, i did it and now I can relax. I won't die single or having never been married".

 

What's weird is that I don't get the sense that a lot of these people understand that it is actually a beginning to a whole new life of effort, compromise, growth, and failure. It worries me that some people suggest it to be a point that is reached without acknowledging that there are still even better things in life. I mean I'm sure it's easy for me, having been married and divorced, to understand that being married and fifty cents will buy you a newspaper.

 

I just wish more "young" people saw it as an important change in life rather than an arrival point. Any thoughts?

[norajane]

That's where all the fairy tales end, Kryt.

 

I'm sure that some of those people do actually realize getting married is the starting point of a marriage and a different kind of lifestyle. At the same time, most people do still view marriage as a lifetime commitment so it does signal the end of life as a single person.

 

Also, most women associate marriage with children, so there is no doubt in my mind that they are well aware that there is much more to life after marriage. That's one of the reasons they are so interested in getting to that point of marriage - they look forward to the end of singledom and the start of family life and what comes after.

[Cliche]

I have recently been talking to a few people about marriage, both in talking about my failed one and talking about others' potential ones, and it struck me. It seems that a lot of people, and I have to lean toward females in particular, seem to envision marriage as an endpoint. Like it's a moment that says, "there, i did it and now I can relax. I won't die single or having never been married".

 

What's weird is that I don't get the sense that a lot of these people understand that it is actually a beginning to a whole new life of effort, compromise, growth, and failure. It worries me that some people suggest it to be a point that is reached without acknowledging that there are still even better things in life. I mean I'm sure it's easy for me, having been married and divorced, to understand that being married and fifty cents will buy you a newspaper.

 

I just wish more "young" people saw it as an important change in life rather than an arrival point. Any thoughts?

 

Yes, this explains the high divorce rates in the US.

 

And, being one of those "females in particular" , I do think I married my exH out of fear of loneliness. I just didn't want to do it all alone and, because of that, I made a horrible choice (See: earlier divorce rate comment). I'm hoping I've grown enough as a person to really know that I'm better off alone than married just because. Next time, I hope I do it for true love should I be lucky enough to have or find it.

[SoHotZanzibar]

I think marriage works for some, but not for most.

I think the concept is kind of dated, or people simply get married too soon.

[JamesM]

I think we all heard "and they lived happily ever after" too many times when were young. Most of us felt...even though by the time we got married we knew differently..that our marriage would be the "happily ever after" fairy tale that we heard as a child.

 

But for many of us, reality hits and we do learn that marriage is a new beginning. The big test is then...can we actually try to live "almost happily ever after?"

[Trialbyfire]

I just wish more "young" people saw it as an important change in life rather than an arrival point.

I agree. The princess wedding is pushed for the purposes of consumerism and living la fairytale.

 

I went into my marriage with my eyes wide open, looking forward to a new life with someone I was insanely in love with. We planned out our lives together and met/exceeded every goal we set. While we argued some of the time, it wasn't very often, seeming to have very similar interests and goals.

 

That it turned into a nightmare and a disposable marriage was eye-opening, indeed...

[jerbear]

For me marriage is part of a life stage, marriage leads to family / kids.

 

It is not really an endpoint or even a starting point. If getting married is a starting point well it starts the end of being single. Marriage can also be viewed as a start of a partnership.

 

Anyway, I don't view "till death" or "happily ever after" just to much of a fairly tale. Not in to the white horse drawn carriage. I would rather settle for a vegas wedding.

 

Who knows I might get married once go thru multiple marriages.

[OpenBook]

It seems that a lot of people, and I have to lean toward females in particular, seem to envision marriage as an endpoint. Like it's a moment that says, "there, i did it and now I can relax. I won't die single or having never been married".

 

I believe that the majority of men marry in order to have someone take care of them (replacing Mom), and also to get sex on a regular basis without having to work for it like they did when they were single.

 

I believe that women tend to be more starry-eyed about marriage. They marry a Handsome Prince who will "rescue" them from their bleak lonely singleton existence. It makes them feel fulfilled as a woman - this man married me because I'm a hell of a good woman. Many women also marry in order to bear and raise children in a stable environment.

 

I agree with you that most couples start out having NO IDEA how much work marriage ends up being. It's easy (for both the H and the W) to take your partner for granted, and fall into a state of compacency.

[Mustang Sally]

I really appreciate the replies on this thread. I find these views very interesting and wise.

 

I think the fairytale/myth has undermined many a marriage.

 

I also think that the rule, if you will, for the majority of long term marriages is that they turn into more of a (mutally beneficial) business arrangement between the spouses.

 

The "insanely in-love" phase at the start of the relationship fades to a sort of mutual dependence (economic, social, etc...). If you are lucky, you still like and even enjoy the company of the person you are in it with, and from time to time, maybe that initial SPARK that you had when you first met will reignite for a while. This, in my experience (NOTE this disclaimer!), is what real, in-it-for-the-long-haul LOVE ends up being.

 

For some it is comfortable, and enough.

For others, they are constantly tempted by the lure of the initial SPARK and they can't remain in a marriage for the long haul.

 

I think there certainly are some M where the couples seem to have the SPARK pretty much always, forever, and ever, amen, and die happily M and everyone recounts how IN LOVE they always were. But I think these types of relationships are the exception, NOT the rule.

 

And therein lies the fallacy of what we are taught (i.e. the "fairytale").

 

Call me jaded.

[Cliche]

I also think that the rule, if you will, for the majority of long term marriages is that they turn into more of a (mutally beneficial) business arrangement between the spouses.

 

The "insanely in-love" phase at the start of the relationship fades to a sort of mutual dependence (economic, social, etc...). If you are lucky, you still like and even enjoy the company of the person you are in it with, and from time to time, maybe that initial SPARK that you had when you first met will reignite for a while. This, in my experience (NOTE this disclaimer!), is what real, in-it-for-the-long-haul LOVE ends up being.

 

For some it is comfortable, and enough.

For others, they are constantly tempted by the lure of the initial SPARK and they can't remain in a marriage for the long haul.

 

I think there certainly are some M where the couples seem to have the SPARK pretty much always, forever, and ever, amen, and die happily M and everyone recounts how IN LOVE they always were. But I think these types of relationships are the exception, NOT the rule.

 

And therein lies the fallacy of what we are taught (i.e. the "fairytale").

 

Call me jaded.

 

I think the business arrangement marriages are the long-term unhappy ones. The truly in love long-term marriages, that spark never goes away. And yes, I've seen them. And yes, they are rare. But I think they're rare because people get married before they understand what love is so they don't marry the people they love...they marry the people who they are infatuated with and who will make good business partners.

[underpants]

I have recently been talking to a few people about marriage, both in talking about my failed one and talking about others' potential ones, and it struck me. It seems that a lot of people, and I have to lean toward females in particular, seem to envision marriage as an endpoint. Like it's a moment that says, "there, i did it and now I can relax. I won't die single or having never been married".

 

What's weird is that I don't get the sense that a lot of these people understand that it is actually a beginning to a whole new life of effort, compromise, growth, and failure. It worries me that some people suggest it to be a point that is reached without acknowledging that there are still even better things in life. I mean I'm sure it's easy for me, having been married and divorced, to understand that being married and fifty cents will buy you a newspaper.

 

I just wish more "young" people saw it as an important change in life rather than an arrival point. Any thoughts?

 

This is why I think real communication and respect are so important. I do see from time to time people do and say (I think) very strange things for committed couples to be doing or saying. I know it is not always a walk in the park. However, I still do believe it can be a wonderful journey to take with someone.

 

Most couples I hang with seem to grasp the commitment/respect/life partner idea. However, I have seen my share of dysfunctional thinking in regards to relationships.

 

Sometimes I find it kind of surreal to see (yes, mostly females) get so hung up on the event of the wedding that I have to wonder if they have thought about what the whole ceremony is supposed to embody?

 

Personally, I have resolved (along with the whole alone forever thing) that I really don't need a big ceremony about a decision I hopefully made with someone special. That would be all the ceremony I needed.

 

Some people just need to be married to feel complete or achieved I think. Not all but some. Of course this can lead to resentment later if the idea behind the commitment was to put a check beside a life experience.

 

Personally, I would love to find a life partner to grow and evolve with. Someone to experience time with and safely know that we will be there for each other. Someone who does not give up on me or let me give up on him. Someone who would not sabatoge the sanctity of the institution of 'us'. My little fantasy.

 

I guess I would have to go into it viewing it as a well communicated beginning point. Certainly, not an endpoint.

[Krytellan]

I have come to the somewhat light-hearted conclusion that marriage has become outdated and should be replaced by "mutual relation contracts". I just feel like 95% of relationships are destined to end within 5 years let alone death, so why enter into a lifetime bond that only makes things way more difficult when it does end?

 

The contracts will provide all the legal benefits of marriage, but will be of limited duration. The initial contract can be a 2-year duration, followed forever by renewable 1-year contracts (maybe renew with your taxes?). These contracts will be a marriage/prenup combined that spells out all divisions and details ahead of time. If the couple chooses not to renew, then the terms of the ending relationship are spelled out in the previous contract.

 

But seriously, are we really still a society that can have any concept of "until death"? Nothing in the world is made to last anymore, and we have lost the ability either wait or endure. It's a world of quick and convenience. Most of it is anyway.

[Trialbyfire]

I have come to the somewhat light-hearted conclusion that marriage has become outdated and should be replaced by "mutual relation contracts". I just feel like 95% of relationships are destined to end within 5 years let alone death, so why enter into a lifetime bond that only makes things way more difficult when it does end?

 

The contracts will provide all the legal benefits of marriage, but will be of limited duration. The initial contract can be a 2-year duration, followed forever by renewable 1-year contracts (maybe renew with your taxes?). These contracts will be a marriage/prenup combined that spells out all divisions and details ahead of time. If the couple chooses not to renew, then the terms of the ending relationship are spelled out in the previous contract.

 

But seriously, are we really still a society that can have any concept of "until death"? Nothing in the world is made to last anymore, and we have lost the ability either wait or endure. It's a world of quick and convenience. Most of it is anyway.

I'm going to call you on this. Most enter marriage with the idea of having children in either the near or distant future. If marriage was setup with annual renewable contracts, what woman would be stupid enough to have children?

[Krytellan]

I have come to the somewhat light-hearted conclusion that marriage has become outdated and should be replaced by "mutual relation contracts".

 

Quoted for emphasis.

 

That said, if the couple loves each other, then they would forsee renewing forever, no? If they didn't see themselves renewing forever, then they shouldn't be thinking kids anyway right? When married couple have kids they don't think about the divorce, however, most of them will divorce. It's no different, just way more realistic. And these are the types of details that can be worked in.

 

But I'm not here to preach some silly philosophy. The point was that I just don't know that we are any longer equipped to handle the "'til death" concept anymore. And I, for one, and for the first time in my life, am not impressed with the idea of marriage anymore. Why make the ending more difficult?

[Trialbyfire]

I have to be honest with you and wouldn't bother with marriage if it were by renewable contract. Why even go through any legalities if it's disposable?

[Woggle]

Marriage is what the couple makes it.

[underpants]

I agree that a marriage (or any serious relationship) is what the 2 people in it, make of it.

 

I do hear you Krys on the contract thing. It reminds me of that 'attaining order' concept and that 'head, heart, gut and libido act' that lyndia came up with on another thread.

 

I sometimes ponder that if the government wants to prioritize marriage and families staying together that they could do a better job.

 

I know there are tax perks for married couples. However, maybe there should be duration of marriage perks also. Kind of like anniversary gifts from the government. Maybe this could be 'Form M'. Some initiatives along the sometimes bumpy road. 1-2 years a deduction for enrolling in some counceling. 5-7 a nice perk to take the mind of the itch that often arrives here, maybe a family vacation deduction. Married for 50 years, you no longer have to pay taxes.

[Woggle]

Sometimes I wonder if marriage would be better off if the government just got out of it. This society has turned what is a deeply personal and emotional union into a business arrangement. If we got the lawyers and the courts out of the whole thing and just made an emotional commitment that you make in a church or just between two people if they are not religious maybe things would be better.

[milvushina]

I actually like the business-like aspect. Running a household or family is like a business in a way and the legal contract also is a safety net for when fickle emotions might wane...only to be playing a different tune later, and then you might be glad you've got a contract more solid than flighty emotions..

 

I can see how people think of marriage as an end-point as far as it's the end of a certain way of life. I know it's foofoo but I have always associated the Carpenter's song "We've Only Just Begun" with my marriage. It is just one of many end-points.

 

There is a such thing as a temporary marriage in Islam, I think it is practiced in Iran, I don't know how condoned it is but it lets people get temporarily married so they can have sex in wedlock. At least, it used to be so, I read about them in a novel a few years ago.

[IpAncA]

I just wish more "young" people saw it as an important change in life rather than an arrival point. Any thoughts?

 

It is an end point in term of how high the relationship can go. But it doesn't mean your life ends there. Just another chapter in two people's lives who have choosen to stay committed to each other until death separates them.

 

I believe that the majority of men marry in order to have someone take care of them (replacing Mom), and also to get sex on a regular basis without having to work for it like they did when they were single.

 

As sad as this is it doesn't seem that far off.

 

Marriage is what the couple makes it.

 

Yep I agree. If the marriage ends, it's their fault. No one said marriage was easy and if you go into it expecting it to end, it probably will.

[silktricks]

What's weird is that I don't get the sense that a lot of these people understand that it is actually a beginning to a whole new life of effort, compromise, growth, and failure.

 

This is the core point imo. Compromise has turned into a bad word for most women, especially young women. They have come to see it as a weakness instead of a strength. I would blame the failure of many marriages on the inability/unwillingness for either party to compromise.

 

Neither party should be expected to always compromise, but both parties should be willing to compromise. Not every decision needs to be, or should be a reason for stubborness.