I used to adore H, now I’m not attracted any more

[rainfall]

You guys put wayyyyy too much thought into this. There are no hidden meanings, comparisons with their wives, designs to cheat etc...

 

It looks good, so men look.

 

Full stop, we do the same with cars ffs.

 

But the difference is the man doesn't want to sleep with the car and he doesn't think less of his car because it doesn't look like the other car.

[Enema]

Wow, you really missed that one....

 

It's exactly like my analogy... as I stated: there are no hidden meanings or comparisons with their wives.

 

The man doesn't want to sleep with the young woman, and doesn't think less of his wife just because he looks.

 

Thinking that he does is a manifestation of your own insecurity.

[rainfall]

Wow, you really missed that one....

 

It's exactly like my analogy... as I stated: there are no hidden meanings or comparisons with their wives.

 

The man doesn't want to sleep with the young woman, and doesn't think less of his wife just because he looks.

 

Thinking that he does is a manifestation of your own insecurity.

 

 

Someone else posted a few posts back that a man wants to sleep with every attractive women he sees so I was going by that. What I really want to know what does a man get out of looking at other women if hes not sleeping with her or thinking about sleeping with her?

[InLimbo2]

I think the other mammal is a dolphin??

 

 

The funny thing is that this is the attitude of many men. And they disrespect, use and abuse women using that same old tired excuse "my damaged chromosome." (XY is just an XX with a penis instead of two legs) It's a yoke people!

 

Let's see ... thousands of years of men trying to get away with this and thousands of years of it backfiring on them.

 

We are not animals. We may be close, but we are not the same. Humans are one of two mammals on earth that have sex for pleasure. (anyone know which is the other mamal?)

 

Not everything Darwin says is fact, they are theories.

 

To believe that men's sexuality is like animals, one has to accept that animals are like men. They are not. Ever see a squirrel take the trash out in hopes of getting lucky later that night?

[InLimbo2]

He gets the pleasure of looking at something he considers aesthetically pleasing. I'm sure you can appreciate the stunning beauty of say the Hope Diamond - even tho you'll never wear it or own it; or the beauty of a painting even tho it's hanging in a museum and not on your wall; or the beauty of a sunset or sunrise.

 

Men will stare, oogle, and drool over any number of things - cars, electronics, computers, golf clubs, motorcycles etc. They'll even look that way at actresses on TV or in movies (my father used to watch Baywatch with the sound off when he was an old man!). Was my mother horrified or upset? heck no. Did my father really think Pam Anderson was gonna jump off the TV and do him - heck no.

 

I'm a woman. IMHO women who freak over this are just insecure - if you're jealous of a chick on tv, a passing stranger on the street, etc - you either have a self-confidence/self-esteem issue - or you don't trust your man.

 

I firmly believe that men and women are hardwired different - evolution and biology. And I believe that if men and particularly women, would stop fighting that and work *with* it - there's be a lot happier people in the world.

 

Bottom line ladies -men love self-confidence in women - period.

 

 

Someone else posted a few posts back that a man wants to sleep with every attractive women he sees so I was going by that. What I really want to know what does a man get out of looking at other women if hes not sleeping with her or thinking about sleeping with her?

[rainfall]

He gets the pleasure of looking at something he considers aesthetically pleasing. I'm sure you can appreciate the stunning beauty of say the Hope Diamond - even tho you'll never wear it or own it; or the beauty of a painting even tho it's hanging in a museum and not on your wall; or the beauty of a sunset or sunrise.

 

Men will stare, oogle, and drool over any number of things - cars, electronics, computers, golf clubs, motorcycles etc. They'll even look that way at actresses on TV or in movies (my father used to watch Baywatch with the sound off when he was an old man!). Was my mother horrified or upset? heck no. Did my father really think Pam Anderson was gonna jump off the TV and do him - heck no.

 

I'm a woman. IMHO women who freak over this are just insecure - if you're jealous of a chick on tv, a passing stranger on the street, etc - you either have a self-confidence/self-esteem issue - or you don't trust your man.

 

I firmly believe that men and women are hardwired different - evolution and biology. And I believe that if men and particularly women, would stop fighting that and work *with* it - there's be a lot happier people in the world.

 

Bottom line ladies -men love self-confidence in women - period.

 

 

It has nothing to do with self confidence. It is rude for a man to oogle other women if they are in a serious relationship.

Sunsets and diamonds are not the same in anyway.

[InLimbo2]

You state that as if it's fact - it's not. It's your opinion - nothing more.

 

Many women don't have a problem with their men looking at/appreciating/acknowledging other women who are attractive. And the greater majority of men don't think it's disrespectful - and even if they 'tone it down' when with their women who object to it - they do it full out when their woman isn't around.

 

Personally - I'd rather my man be free to be himself when I'm around - and not have to pretend. The day you get men (there are some exceptions, I'm talking a generality) to stop looking at women, is the day their dead. And - I'm very secure that my man is with me for the whole package of who I am, and he values that way more than just the physical appearance of another woman.

 

It's illogical that a man would like to look at attractive women and then suddenly have no interest in it at all once he finds a mate.

 

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with self confidence. It is rude for a man to oogle other women if they are in a serious relationship.

Sunsets and diamonds are not the same in anyway.

[rainfall]

You state that as if it's fact - it's not. It's your opinion - nothing more.

 

Many women don't have a problem with their men looking at/appreciating/acknowledging other women who are attractive. And the greater majority of men don't think it's disrespectful - and even if they 'tone it down' when with their women who object to it - they do it full out when their woman isn't around.

 

Personally - I'd rather my man be free to be himself when I'm around - and not have to pretend. The day you get men (there are some exceptions, I'm talking a generality) to stop looking at women, is the day their dead. And - I'm very secure that my man is with me for the whole package of who I am, and he values that way more than just the physical appearance of another woman.

 

It's illogical that a man would like to look at attractive women and then suddenly have no interest in it at all once he finds a mate.

 

I've very secure with my man as well but I am not naive enough to believe that if he is checking out other women he is not thinking about sleeping with them. I wouldn't want to waste my time on a relationship like that.

[InLimbo2]

Nope, but you're naive enough to believe it if a man says he never checks out or thinks about another woman - that's *exceedingly* rare - ask your male friends, your brothers, the men here that respond in posts. The "I never think of another woman" is a conditioned self-preservation automatic response society and women have created in men to keep from having a p!ssed off woman. It's right up there with canned answers to "does this dress make me look fat?" Like I said - I'm secure with my man and his love for me - and I'd much rather he be totally honest and at ease with who he is and know that I accept him for who he truly is.

 

I've known women who made that claim about their men - they were 150% sure their man never checked out another woman, paid particular attention to it etc, and then I'd see the guy without his wife/woman around -and he was like every other guy in looking, checking, commenting.

 

Do you also believe looking at porn is wrong? Fantasizing? Masturbation with any image and thought other than your committed partner? Cuz those are all along the same lines - and you may be able to find about 10% of straight men on the planet that don't do those things.

 

 

I've very secure with my man as well but I am not naive enough to believe that if he is checking out other women he is not thinking about sleeping with them. I wouldn't want to waste my time on a relationship like that.

[rainfall]

Nope, but you're naive enough to believe it if a man says he never checks out or thinks about another woman - that's *exceedingly* rare - ask your male friends, your brothers, the men here that respond in posts. The "I never think of another woman" is a conditioned self-preservation automatic response society and women have created in men to keep from having a p!ssed off woman. It's right up there with canned answers to "does this dress make me look fat?" Like I said - I'm secure with my man and his love for me - and I'd much rather he be totally honest and at ease with who he is and know that I accept him for who he truly is.

 

I've known women who made that claim about their men - they were 150% sure their man never checked out another woman, paid particular attention to it etc, and then I'd see the guy without his wife/woman around -and he was like every other guy in looking, checking, commenting.

 

Do you also believe looking at porn is wrong? Fantasizing? Masturbation with any image and thought other than your committed partner? Cuz those are all along the same lines - and you may be able to find about 10% of straight men on the planet that don't do those things.

 

Well I choose to believe my man is one of the 10% on the plant that loves his partner enough to not do those things.

[InLimbo2]

Interesting how you layer your own sense of morality upon the whole species - that if a man really loves his partner he wouldn't go to strip clubs. That is just your personal opinion - and has nothing to do with how any other couple relates.

 

You may be right - your man may be one of the percentage who would never go to a club. Or he might be one of the percentage that doesn't do it just to keep you off his back - and pays lip service to your views on it. Or he might be one of the percentage that does it and hides it -and then when his woman finds out she blows up and/or comes here to post about how he's been lying to her.

 

I find it interesting that in all your responses (that I recall) - you've never said your guy thinks strip clubs are disgusting, that he would never want to go, that HE thinks it's cheating and disrespectful. Sounds to me like it's very possible he doesn't do it just because you forbid it.

 

Well I choose to believe my man is one of the 10% on the plant that loves his partner enough to not do those things.

[rainfall]

Interesting how you layer your own sense of morality upon the whole species - that if a man really loves his partner he wouldn't go to strip clubs. That is just your personal opinion - and has nothing to do with how any other couple relates.

 

You may be right - your man may be one of the percentage who would never go to a club. Or he might be one of the percentage that doesn't do it just to keep you off his back - and pays lip service to your views on it. Or he might be one of the percentage that does it and hides it -and then when his woman finds out she blows up and/or comes here to post about how he's been lying to her.

 

I find it interesting that in all your responses (that I recall) - you've never said your guy thinks strip clubs are disgusting, that he would never want to go, that HE thinks it's cheating and disrespectful. Sounds to me like it's very possible he doesn't do it just because you forbid it.

 

 

I have told him he is free to go to one if he wants, but I have also told him I would be gone by the time he gets home. He has said the women who work their are skanks and most of the places are over priced and dirty.

 

If a women is OK with her man going to a strip club that is her business but for the women who do not like it and it hurts them no I don not think their partner really cares about them. Otherwise he wouldn't do something that hurts their SO so willingly.

[new_stella]

Bottom line ladies -men love self-confidence in women - period.

Maybe. And I love men who don’t look.

But what does it have to do with this topic?

 

I'm a woman. IMHO women who freak over this are just insecure - if you're jealous of a chick on tv, a passing stranger on the street, etc - you either have a self-confidence/self-esteem issue - or you don't trust your man.

I read through some of your posts and I understand your point of view.

By what you described, you would perfect woman in those men’s eyes – you allowed your man to never commit, have his space, constantly bang other women and have EA with other women, while expecting you to be there for him whenever he needed.

Yet, it didn’t work.

 

Even though I feel that you are judging me by saying that I am insecure, I will refrain from judging you.

Let’s just say that we come from very different backgrounds when it comes to men and that is understandable that we have different opinions.

I would never be able to endure what you endured and I don’t think any woman should go through that.

I understand that you and I have very different definitions of respect… and probably everything else.

 

I respect your choices and decisions.

 

But not every woman who doesn’t want to put up with her man sleeping with other women is insecure.

 

So please, don’t put labels on me or other women who feel this way.

 

 

BTW, 10% is a huge amount.

And why would a woman want to be with the 90% sheety ones?

 

Don't be with them, let them grow and mature... and percentage will change.

 

Having said that – if more women refused to put up with crap, more men would find it necessary to grow up and less would be able to take a woman as a commodity.

[InLimbo2]

I have told him he is free to go to one if he wants, but I have also told him I would be gone by the time he gets home. He has said the women who work their are skanks and most of the places are over priced and dirty.

 

-yep, we've established that it's a dealbreaker for you.

 

If a women is OK with her man going to a strip club that is her business but for the women who do not like it and it hurts them no I don not think their partner really cares about them. Otherwise he wouldn't do something that hurts their SO so willingly.

 

--I think they just don't get why it would upset a woman so much, not intentional hurting them.

[InLimbo2]

Maybe. And I love men who don’t look.

But what does it have to do with this topic?

 

-because I think it's a sign of insecurity - I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

 

I read through some of your posts and I understand your point of view.

By what you described, you would perfect woman in those men’s eyes – you allowed your man to never commit, have his space, constantly bang other women and have EA with other women, while expecting you to be there for him whenever he needed.

Yet, it didn’t work.

 

-yeah, when I came here I had some really ****ty relationships. I'm in a fantastic one now - finally found THE ONE. I could have come back and used a different login to avoid having that history - but I'm more proud of who I've become by overcoming all that. I found a fantastic man, a real gem, and I am a perfect woman in his eyes. He's committed (I have a 1 carat diamond ring on my finger), he doesn't stray, he cut out any woman that remotely wanted a relationship with him, and he's always there when I need him. And I still wouldn't have a problem if he went to a strip club

 

Even though I feel that you are judging me by saying that I am insecure, I will refrain from judging you.

Let’s just say that we come from very different backgrounds when it comes to men and that is understandable that we have different opinions.

I would never be able to endure what you endured and I don’t think any woman should go through that.

I understand that you and I have very different definitions of respect… and probably everything else.

 

-that's your perception, I gave an opinion - you should wonder why you consider it judgment - perhaps you aren't as comfy with your hard and fast 'rules' as you say. Maybe - maybe not. Background? I was married for a very long time, have 2 kids -divorced long time - single mom. Had a couple ****ty relationships along the way to finding happiness - it's not such an unusual story.

 

I respect your choices and decisions.

 

But not every woman who doesn’t want to put up with her man sleeping with other women is insecure.

 

-um - where in the posts - recent posts - did I ever say women should put up with her man sleeping with other women?

 

So please, don’t put labels on me or other women who feel this way.

 

--sorry - I have the right to an opinion, and when you put your opinion out on a public board, it's open to commentary. I can deal with other's having different opinions than me and posting them - can't you?

 

 

BTW, 10% is a huge amount.

And why would a woman want to be with the 90% sheety ones?

 

--um - 10% is 10% - 1/10th lol. See? YOU consider the 90 percent that look at other women as 'sheety'. A good number of women don't consider em cheating or sheety.

 

Don't be with them, let them grow and mature... and percentage will change.

 

--IMO it's male nature - has little to do with growth and maturity - looking at other women that is.

 

Having said that – if more women refused to put up with crap, more men would find it necessary to grow up and less would be able to take a woman as a commodity.

 

---ya know - you brought up my prior posts and sheety relationships - even after all that I've been through - I'm still not spouting such anti-male stuff as you just did in that last paragraph.

[new_stella]

InLimbo,

As I said, you were always (and still are) able to put up with much more that I was.

You think I’m insecure, I think you let men walk all over you.

We both have our reasons.

Let’s leave it at that.

[InLimbo2]

LOL - I used to let men walk on me and put up with too much - not not and never again. And yep - I think you are hugely insecure - and I don't even have to go back and read every post you ever wrote here to see it. Let's leave it at that.

 

 

InLimbo,

As I said, you were always (and still are) able to put up with much more that I was.

You think I’m insecure, I think you let men walk all over you.

We both have our reasons.

Let’s leave it at that.

[East of Jupiter]

Interesting how you layer your own sense of morality upon the whole species - that if a man really loves his partner he wouldn't go to strip clubs. That is just your personal opinion - and has nothing to do with how any other couple relates.

 

You may be right - your man may be one of the percentage who would never go to a club. Or he might be one of the percentage that doesn't do it just to keep you off his back - and pays lip service to your views on it. Or he might be one of the percentage that does it and hides it -and then when his woman finds out she blows up and/or comes here to post about how he's been lying to her.

 

I find it interesting that in all your responses (that I recall) - you've never said your guy thinks strip clubs are disgusting, that he would never want to go, that HE thinks it's cheating and disrespectful. Sounds to me like it's very possible he doesn't do it just because you forbid it.

 

A man, given enough rope, will eventually hang himself. They grow up in a society that deems a man who sleeps around as "just being a man" while a woman is deemed a "slut." See: OW forums.

 

Unfortunately, many young women buy into this as well just as they buy into disrespect as a natural part of a relationship which we must accept. And if we don't, women are labeled "insecure."

 

Many consider this type of thinking naive. Men count on this.

 

Is a man any less if he does not look because he knows it may be disrespectful to his wife? I wonder why this is something any woman would not want.

[East of Jupiter]

--I think they just don't get why it would upset a woman so much, not intentional hurting them.

 

Why do you think men don't get that it upsets their woman that much?

 

Any ideas?

 

And when you say it is not intentional, do you suggest that they don't know any better?

 

Or do you suggest that the act should not be taken that way?

[InLimbo2]

wow - even with all the crappy men and relationships I've had in the past - I've never been as jaded as you about men. I can't even imaging tarring an entire gender with the brush you do. Is that really what you believe? That all men will cheat and betray you unless you keep them under your thumb? I personally know several men in bad marriages, sexless marriages, etc that do not stray at all.

 

Society changes and evolves every minute of every day. The double standard you speak of changes too. Think about it - 100 years ago you weren't even allowed to vote - and 200 years ago you were merely the property of your father or husband.

 

Please tell me that you don't base your entire views of society on the posts on this site - ie the OW forums. People are there because they are the betrayed spouse or the OW/OM - you are dismissing the entire rest of the population that doesn't post there because they have no reason to ever look for those kinds of boards.

 

I don't buy into that disrespect is a natural part of a relationship, nor do I teach that to my children (1 boy and 1 girl). You and I just disagree on what constitutes disrespect. I believe in what I consider reasonable boundaries for 2 adults that love and trust one another.

 

Nope, he's not less - I just don't believe there are very men out there who don't notice an attractive woman. Many hide it cuz their woman freaks over it - but very few don't do it IMO.

 

Why is it something any woman wouldn't want? Hmm -cuz it makes no difference? I look at hot lookin guys - my guy knows it - he doesn't care either. We BOTH know what we have, and how much we value it - and neither of us would risk it for someone else - no matter how hot. Looking at an attractive person is just a fleeting pleasant visual experience that has no impact on your life. Why do you think they use good looking people in ad campaigns??

 

I know, I know, you'll tell me all about how it's disrespectful it is yadda yadda - while with your own keyboard you are disrespectful to all men as an entire gender. You have to give respect and trust to get it.

 

 

A man, given enough rope, will eventually hang himself. They grow up in a society that deems a man who sleeps around as "just being a man" while a woman is deemed a "slut." See: OW forums.

 

Unfortunately, many young women buy into this as well just as they buy into disrespect as a natural part of a relationship which we must accept. And if we don't, women are labeled "insecure."

 

Many consider this type of thinking naive. Men count on this.

 

Is a man any less if he does not look because he knows it may be disrespectful to his wife? I wonder why this is something any woman would not want.

[InLimbo2]

Because in their minds it's no big deal - and they can't fathom WHY it is to women. They don't really intend to chase these other women, and most would be scared outta their wits if they ever got a shot with one.

 

Your question is phrased in a very manipulative manner - don't know any better? That gives the tacit implication that's it's wrong. How about they don't do it intentionally - as in very few men think to themselves "hmm, let me look at other women tonight, so it'll really hurt my wife and upset her" and the unspoken "and I can deal with her going ape***** over it for the next day, week, month"

 

Suggest? Nope -I downright say it - it shouldn't be taken as any reflection on the partner. Unless he's actually tryin to hook up with another chick, it's just harmless looking.

 

I'm not threatened by it at all. For instance -my guy looks like the standard issue guy and he loves the look of girls in goth look covered in tats - I really dislike it - and surely wouldn't tat myself up or dress that way. Occasionally we'll be out and see a girl like that - or I'll run across a pic of one like that - I'll point her out or send him the pic. Why? Because he likes that - he finds it visually appealing. Does it mean he wants to do her? nope Does it mean he'd consider leaving me for her? nope Does it mean he finds her more appealing than me? nope He just looks because he finds it pleasant to look at.

 

 

 

Why do you think men don't get that it upsets their woman that much?

 

Any ideas?

 

And when you say it is not intentional, do you suggest that they don't know any better?

 

Or do you suggest that the act should not be taken that way?

[new_stella]

I believe men don’t want to intentionally hurt women.

They just think women are silly to be upset over things like that. They think they are so silly that it is much better to just do it and not tell. No one’s hurt.

(Funny thing, when a woman does the same thing, they are upset.)

My point is: everyone has the right to decide what is important to them.

 

I’m trying to figure out who is naïve here.

 

Men looking at women is sexual by nature.

 

Think about it from a little bit different perspective: you are a man; you see a woman that is sooo visually appealing to you (men are visual creatures, we’ve all learnt that!), you see a hot sexy woman, you look and you like what you see very much. Why wouldn’t you want to do her? It doesn’t make sense not to want her in a sexual way!

 

Cad Rake must be right on this one.

 

I think women who don’t see this are in denial.

[East of Jupiter]

Because in their minds it's no big deal - and they can't fathom WHY it is to women. They don't really intend to chase these other women, and most would be scared outta their wits if they ever got a shot with one.

 

You can read your man's mind? Man, that would save a lot of time wouldn't it?

 

Your question is phrased in a very manipulative manner - don't know any better? That gives the tacit implication that's it's wrong. How about they don't do it intentionally - as in very few men think to themselves "hmm, let me look at other women tonight, so it'll really hurt my wife and upset her" and the unspoken "and I can deal with her going ape***** over it for the next day, week, month"

 

Manipulative questions? Why the defensiveness?

 

You assume a lot of things. If a woman is okay with her man looking, no problem eh? He can look all he wants and his lady has no problem. That would be you from what I gather. What's the big deal? Right?

 

 

Suggest? Nope -I downright say it - it shouldn't be taken as any reflection on the partner. Unless he's actually tryin to hook up with another chick, it's just harmless looking.

 

Again, how does a partner know? I don't suggest, I downtright say it. You never know.

 

I'm not threatened by it at all. For instance -my guy looks like the standard issue guy and he loves the look of girls in goth look covered in tats - I really dislike it - and surely wouldn't tat myself up or dress that way. Occasionally we'll be out and see a girl like that - or I'll run across a pic of one like that - I'll point her out or send him the pic. Why? Because he likes that - he finds it visually appealing. Does it mean he wants to do her? nope Does it mean he'd consider leaving me for her? nope Does it mean he finds her more appealing than me? nope He just looks because he finds it pleasant to look at.

 

Been there, done that. If he starts showing up with black rose petals remains on his boxers ... LOL!

 

Now, all joking aside -- it really doesn't matter. A wo/man who will cheat need no excuses. Bwahahahahahaah!

 

Even those who never look. And even those who's wives are secure and are open to their looking.

 

There are no guarantees.

[East of Jupiter]

I believe men don’t want to intentionally hurt women.

They just think women are silly to be upset over things like that. They think they are so silly that it is much better to just do it and not tell. No one’s hurt.

(Funny thing, when a woman does the same thing, they are upset.)

My point is: everyone has the right to decide what is important to them.

 

I’m trying to figure out who is naïve here.

 

Men looking at women is sexual by nature.

 

Think about it from a little bit different perspective: you are a man; you see a woman that is sooo visually appealing to you (men are visual creatures, we’ve all learnt that!), you see a hot sexy woman, you look and you like what you see very much. Why wouldn’t you want to do her? It doesn’t make sense not to want her in a sexual way!

 

Cad Rake must be right on this one.

 

I think women who don’t see this are in denial.

 

Cad Rake is a cake man! I think he has three girlfriends at the moment and I'm sure he would take another. One who doesn't mind his looking would be just right!

[InLimbo2]

well -not all men get upset when women do it -I know plenty that don't.

 

There's a distinction there - yes, it's sexual in nature when they look at an attractive woman - they think "great rack", or imagine her naked, or even imagine doin her - but that's different than actually wanting to do her.

 

Personally, I don't care if my guy looks at a chick and wonders what it'd be like to do her - as long as he doesn't act on it - or try to. Pretty much all my girlfriends are same way. My coworkers are from all very traditional backgrounds, married long time etc - they think same way - what's the harm in looking?

 

 

I believe men don’t want to intentionally hurt women.

They just think women are silly to be upset over things like that. They think they are so silly that it is much better to just do it and not tell. No one’s hurt.

(Funny thing, when a woman does the same thing, they are upset.)

My point is: everyone has the right to decide what is important to them.

 

I’m trying to figure out who is naïve here.

 

Men looking at women is sexual by nature.

 

Think about it from a little bit different perspective: you are a man; you see a woman that is sooo visually appealing to you (men are visual creatures, we’ve all learnt that!), you see a hot sexy woman, you look and you like what you see very much. Why wouldn’t you want to do her? It doesn’t make sense not to want her in a sexual way!

 

Cad Rake must be right on this one.

 

I think women who don’t see this are in denial.