the other woman manifesto

[RealityCheck]

I don't think that 10 and 14 make much sense as they contradict each other.

 

In one you say don't tell me about your marriage, in the other you demand to be told the big things in the marriage. Either you want to hear about it all, or you don't. Talking about the big things leads to talk about the small things too.

 

Doesn't sound like much of a manifesto. Sounds more like a list of grievances made humorous.

 

No pun intended DIN, but I am sure I could list a few being in a former BS position as well! I honestly don't believe any of it is really humorous no matter what side of the fence it comes on.

[GreenEyedLady]

I think the whole "manifesto" is really sad...

 

That a woman would stay with a man who would even do one of these things is appalling...how totally disrespectful...A man will not respect you if you don't respect yourself...

 

Someone earlier said that MM can't be expected to live up to them...

 

Well I'm sorry but in a real R, this is not even an issue...It has nothing to do with marital status and everything to do with respect...

 

And just because you are an OW, does not mean you are not worthy of respect...

[Cliche]

I think you can expect a MM to treat you with respect. Expecting them to leave, making demands of that sort I agree... complete waste of time.

 

I also think you can believe what he's saying. You just have to listen properly and really hear the meaning.

 

MM says: "I love you and I want to be with you"

 

OW hears: "I'm ready to leave my marriage" ~ NOPE

 

What comes out of MM's mouth is not a statement of intent, but what he'd like, what he'd want. Wanting and doing are two completely different things.

I really have to agree with this. When I came to this board, I was devastated to see so many similarities in these relationships and I thought mine was sunk.

 

And then I came to see all the differences.

 

I am amazed at how many posts I see here where the OW asks "will he leave for me?" and then, in the course of her same post, she says he has told her he won't leave for X reason. Believe him. He said he won't leave. MM never ever ever once said that...no waffling, no excuses, no laters. His marriage is ending the date he told he me it would even though I wouldn't accept that date at first.

 

They don't lie as much as we think they do. Sometimes we just aren't hearing.

 

And I agree with GEL, I have not once accepted any of the things on this list from MM (wait, he's late sometimes, but that's his personality...and mine ). When I found out he was married and agreed to try to stay this thing through while he ended his M, I told him I would never accept being a secret and he never made me one.

[lovernotafighter]

my MM has done allot of piss poor things in my opinion but when I read this I actually was relieved that he doesn't do any of those things either.

 

to those people who always come into a thread because they just have to say over and over "well you shouldn't be dating a married man then".

 

well aren't you just a lil eye opener, I had no idea and after 3 years of being with my MM I can just walk away...it really is that easy...thank you so much! if you guys hadn't repeated that over and over I might never have gotten it! I have learned that we are living in a fantasy like lord of the rings or something and all that magic is fake, should make it that much easier to just ..do it!

[PoshPrincess]

17. Let me know how you would react to me if your wife were to find out.

 

Especially when everything you say about 'how you will react' is pure BS!

 

18. Dont lead to believe that you love/care about me when those are not true feelings.

 

Brilliant! 'I love you, I want to be with you' but when the going get's tough......what he really wants is to have his cake and eat in IMO.

 

Another one for you......don't take 'the' phone call and then have to rush off home, pretending it wasn't the W on the phone at all!

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'm not sure how an OW can expect a MM to respect her. The very nature of the relationship is disrespectful to the OW. There is an ugly, practical side to the MM/OW relationship - you have to think about what it takes to get it started and keep it going. By even approaching her while being married, he is letting her know that she is:

 

1. The type of person who sleeps with married people. The OW must disregard and have no respect for marriage.

 

2. A person who seems like the sort who will help him lie and cheat. The OW must lie and help MM lie to cover the relationship in order to keep it going.

 

3. A sneaky person who is willing to hurt and backstab in order to get what she wants. The OW must be willing to disregard the pain of another person, and in fact be willing to destroy her life in order to continue her relationship with MM.

 

4. A person who thinks so little of herself that she will settle for being the one he cheats with, not the one he lives his legit life with. The OW, in order to keep MM must know her place and never attempt to make more of it.

 

If the OW doesn't fit the above criteria, the MM/OW relationship will fail. Now, in rare occasions, the MM/OW relationship fails - but does so in OW's favor. The MM/OW relationship ends and becomes a divorced guy/only woman relationship, but counting on that is like counting on lottery winnings to fund your retirement and put your kids through college.

 

I guess it would be fair to say that within a completely disrespectful framework, the MM can at least respect the OW as much as can be expected in such a situation.

[lovernotafighter]

I'm not sure how an OW can expect a MM to respect her. The very nature of the relationship is disrespectful to the OW. There is an ugly, practical side to the MM/OW relationship - you have to think about what it takes to get it started and keep it going. By even approaching her while being married, he is letting her know that she is:

 

1. The type of person who sleeps with married people. The OW must disregard and have no respect for marriage.

 

2. A person who seems like the sort who will help him lie and cheat. The OW must lie and help MM lie to cover the relationship in order to keep it going.

 

3. A sneaky person who is willing to hurt and backstab in order to get what she wants. The OW must be willing to disregard the pain of another person, and in fact be willing to destroy her life in order to continue her relationship with MM.

 

4. A person who thinks so little of herself that she will settle for being the one he cheats with, not the one he lives his legit life with. The OW, in order to keep MM must know her place and never attempt to make more of it.

 

If the OW doesn't fit the above criteria, the MM/OW relationship will fail. Now, in rare occasions, the MM/OW relationship fails - but does so in OW's favor. The MM/OW relationship ends and becomes a divorced guy/only woman relationship, but counting on that is like counting on lottery winnings to fund your retirement and put your kids through college.

 

I guess it would be fair to say that within a completely disrespectful framework, the MM can at least respect the OW as much as can be expected in such a situation.

 

you were a exOW so I suppose your speaking for yourself cause this isnt me, that sucks you felt that horrible about your self LB

[NoIDidn't]

I tried to post earlier a response to RC, but my PC has been acting up.

 

Just wanted to say, it doesn't matter her status in the R, its still sad to stay in such a R.

 

It did seem that the OP was attempting to be humurous. But you are right, their is nothing funny about it. If I felt a R that I had was turning into one that meritted such a manifesto, its time for some serious soul-searching as to why I am even still in it. Just how important would maintaining such a R be to me. A or not.

[RealityCheck]

I tried to post earlier a response to RC, but my PC has been acting up.

 

Just wanted to say, it doesn't matter her status in the R, its still sad to stay in such a R.

 

It did seem that the OP was attempting to be humurous. But you are right, their is nothing funny about it. If I felt a R that I had was turning into one that meritted such a manifesto, its time for some serious soul-searching as to why I am even still in it. Just how important would maintaining such a R be to me. A or not.

 

I agree! I would not want to be involved in this sort of drama myself and that's why I chose to end the manifesto.

 

Having said this, there are OW's who do not experience all this bull***t from the MM.

 

Some do, some don't. I would rather not!

[LucreziaBorgia]

you were a exOW so I suppose your speaking for yourself cause this isnt me, that sucks you felt that horrible about your self LB

 

I didn't write it from an OW perspective. I wrote it from the cakeperson's. No OW wants to hear it, but there is an ugly side to maintaining affairs and that is pretty much it. I don't feel bad about myself in the way you are implying. I mainly just feel bad that I treated people this way back in my cakeeating days. MM/MW do consider these things when having affairs and they will never in a million years share that with their OM/OW, but I can tell you this - if the MM/MW intends to stay married then the OW/OM has to be willing to maintain the relationship in the way I described, otherwise there can be no affair.

 

The MW/MM might love the OW/OM but even in the greatest of love affairs, there has to be a certain amount of practicality in order to keep the marriage going as well.

[RealityCheck]

I didn't write it from an OW perspective. I wrote it from the cakeperson's. No OW wants to hear it, but there is an ugly side to maintaining affairs and that is pretty much it. I don't feel bad about myself in the way you are implying. I mainly just feel bad that I treated people this way back in my cakeeating days. MM/MW do consider these things when having affairs and they will never in a million years share that with their OM/OW, but I can tell you this - if the MM/MW intends to stay married then the OW/OM has to be willing to maintain the relationship in the way I described, otherwise there can be no affair.

 

The MW/MM might love the OW/OM but even in the greatest of love affairs, there has to be a certain amount of practicality in order to keep the marriage going as well.

 

This is very true.

[GreenEyedLady]

there has to be a certain amount of practicality in order to keep the marriage going as well.

 

Isn't this the forum of low expectations? You think W's don't have low expectations as well? When it comes down to it, some accept a name and a house and little else...a facade of the American Dream is enough for some...

[NoIDidn't]

Isn't this the forum of low expectations? You think W's don't have low expectations as well? When it comes down to it, some accept a name and a house and little else...a facade of the American Dream is enough for some...

 

 

Well then, I guess this forum is just a race to the bottom, eh? Let's see who has the lowest expectations, why don't we.....

[Cliche]

NID,

If it's about the "people" and not the "marriage," (and I agree) then why is marriage so important for some? If it's the relationship that is special, then why all the claims that someone owes someone something specifically due to the marriage certificate?

[GreenEyedLady]

NID,

If it's about the "people" and not the "marriage," (and I agree) then why is marriage so important for some? If it's the relationship that is special, then why all the claims that someone owes someone something specifically due to the marriage certificate?

 

What an excellent point...

[GreenEyedLady]

Well then' date=' I guess this forum is just a race to the bottom, eh? Let's see who has the lowest expectations, why don't we.....[/quote']

 

You know I was being sarcastic...

[Cliche]

if the MM/MW intends to stay married then the OW/OM has to be willing to maintain the relationship in the way I described, otherwise there can be no affair.

If the MM/MW intends to stay married, but if the MM/MW does not intend to stay married or is not sure, then there does not need to be that level of secrecy or sneakiness.

 

Also, many As are out of state As meaning the relationship can be wide open, but long distance.

 

I don't know, I most definitely do not support As and I would advise anyway to stay as far away as possible due to the emotional difficulties, but I don't think that all As need to be as disrespectful as you claimed in your first post (of course many are, but not all).

[NoIDidn't]

NID,

If it's about the "people" and not the "marriage," (and I agree) then why is marriage so important for some? If it's the relationship that is special, then why all the claims that someone owes someone something specifically due to the marriage certificate?

 

Cliche,

 

Don't know how this got on the wrong thread, but I will answer MY OPINION to your question.

 

Marriage is not about the piece of paper or the legal. Its about the vows. The promises. The implied commitment to one and only one.

 

I can't answer for everyone else, or even some others. I can only answer for me. And for me, marriage is not the end all be all of my existence. Marriage like everything else I am a part of, has its ups and downs. But I am committed to it. To what I said to my then fiance in front of many witnesses. But mostly to him and my word.

 

And yes, believe it or not, there are those of us that believe others owe the married couple partners the respect of not interfering with their commmitment. We expect others to respect the things that we pay for, why not expect them to respect the things that we have given our living to? And that includes the people in the marriage, who also don't always show the greatest amount of respect for each other or the M either.

 

If I saw a child playing in traffic, I would intervene to make the child safe. I don't owe that child anything, but I bet its parents and loved ones will be glad that someone valued that child enough to pull it out of harm's way.

 

We all owe each other common courtesy. Common courtesy is taking a backseat in many arenas, though. Not just marriage. Unfortunately.

 

Again, this is my opinion. Not stated or proven fact.

[Cliche]

Cliche,

 

Don't know how this got on the wrong thread,

Probably because I'm a dork.

 

 

Marriage is not about the piece of paper or the legal. Its about the vows. The promises. The implied commitment to one and only one.

 

I can't answer for everyone else, or even some others. I can only answer for me. And for me, marriage is not the end all be all of my existence. Marriage like everything else I am a part of, has its ups and downs. But I am committed to it. To what I said to my then fiance in front of many witnesses. But mostly to him and my word.

 

And yes, believe it or not, there are those of us that believe others owe the married couple partners the respect of not interfering with their commmitment. We expect others to respect the things that we pay for, why not expect them to respect the things that we have given our living to? And that includes the people in the marriage, who also don't always show the greatest amount of respect for each other or the M either.

 

If I saw a child playing in traffic, I would intervene to make the child safe. I don't owe that child anything, but I bet its parents and loved ones will be glad that someone valued that child enough to pull it out of harm's way.

 

We all owe each other common courtesy. Common courtesy is taking a backseat in many arenas, though. Not just marriage. Unfortunately.

 

Again, this is my opinion. Not stated or proven fact.

Okay, gotcha. Don't necessarily disagree with anything here.

 

But again, if it is the commitment and not the marriage that is so important, and one party to the commitment is no longer committed, then there's no commitment to respect, right? So we're back to just respecting the marriage because that's the "thing" that is special.

 

Ftr, I'm actually not trying to justify As. I'm enjoying the philosophical aspect of this. I think that the reason an OP should stay away from an A is to refrain from hurting an innocent person, but not just because of the "specialness" of marriage.

[NoIDidn't]

Ftr, I'm actually not trying to justify As. I'm enjoying the philosophical aspect of this. I think that the reason an OP should stay away from an A is to refrain from hurting an innocent person, but not just because of the "specialness" of marriage.

 

Exactly!!! I enjoy the philosophical part too. Now if they could just move this to the right thread.....LOL!

 

True story: When I was working, I had a co-worker who was so FINE! And married. We went to lunch often but I would never call it an EA. We weren't that deep. We talked alot about the type of person we would cheat with. We both agreed that they would have to be married with children, as to not turn into stalkers that had nothing left to lose. Nothing ever came to be between us. But I am sure that it could have had I not kept getting pregnant!!! LOL!!

 

Then at the same job, there was the married guy who loved the fact that I was already knocked up. It meant that it couldn't be blamed on him. He even showed me what he claimed was proof of his clean bill of health. He was fine too. But nasty. He slept with everyone!!!

 

My point... IDK. Just had these stupid memories and thought they might offer some insight into what I am saying, or trying to say.....LOL!!!

 

I need some sleep.

[NoIDidn't]

GEL

 

I'm sooo sorry. I was trying to be funny too. But I did take you seriously.

 

You have got to use the emoticons more. LOL!

[Tomcat33]

The type of person who sleeps with married people. The OW must disregard and have no respect for marriage.

 

2. A person who seems like the sort who will help him lie and cheat. The OW must lie and help MM lie to cover the relationship in order to keep it going.

 

3. A sneaky person who is willing to hurt and backstab in order to get what she wants. The OW must be willing to disregard the pain of another person, and in fact be willing to destroy her life in order to continue her relationship with MM.

 

4. A person who thinks so little of herself that she will settle for being the one he cheats with, not the one he lives his legit life with. The OW, in order to keep MM must know her place and never attempt to make more of it.

 

 

 

you were a exOW so I suppose your speaking for yourself cause this isnt me, that sucks you felt that horrible about your self LB

 

 

I agree it would suck to feel like that while involved with a MM I didn't feel horrible about myself, nor that I was an accomplice in the lying. HE was doing the lying and that was his prerrogative. I was never asked to cover anything for him, he did it all on his own and very far from my eyes/self. The situation itself just made me up the ante demanding things from him to such extent he could not keep up with my demands moreso than I have in any rel which developed naturally. Just not cut out to be second best, even if in theory because in practice he always put me first, the theory part I was not cut out for either. But having said that, he knew I was not to be used on the side. He gave me everything I asked in order for our rel to happen, except get the D. If anything he put his W second many times which THAT made me feel horrible, her not knowing about us and him rejecting her really did make me feel terrible.

 

I dunnow not every OW feels like the bottom of the barrel, I just can't say all the misconceptions that get thrown around about how lowly the OW must feel really fit.

I think some OW are more in control of these situations than they let on to believe except for when it comes to point critical ie. D time.

[Tomcat33]

4. A person who thinks so little of herself that she will settle for being the one he cheats with, not the one he lives his legit life with. The OW, in order to keep MM must know her place and never attempt to make more of it.

 

I especially beg to differ on this point. Some of us think we are so special that we could make a man change the entire course of his life for us. Let me tell you that was a rude awakening and half for me!

Men have done crazy things for me but that was a bit much...

 

and the one he lives his "legit life for" is his BW, still think I got the better end of the deal in the end...

[GreenEyedLady]

I especially beg to differ on this point. Some of us think we are so special that we could make a man change the entire course of his life for us.

 

So glad to know that I am not alone in thinking this...

[Tomcat33]

So glad to know that I am not alone in thinking this...

 

 

GEL you are SO NOT alone on this one. Let's face it here is man who is willing to risk everything to be with you, the way I saw it was he either thought what he had was not all that worth risking or he thought I was worth losing what he already had. No matter how I looked at it, I NEVER felt like I was less for settling for attention. My goodness if there is one thing that was NOT a part of my equation was the notion that I was settling for attention, it all came naturally and at a very high price to him. How much more special can someone make you feel?