Herzen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 How frequent are "true love affairs"? I think what you'd call a "love affair" is the same thing me and most MM would refer to as a booty call. Dont be fooled by the pretty rhetoric. I was in love with my MW, achingly so. As for her, I was hot affair sex; some guy who'd f@ck her in ways her husband wouldn't or couldn't. (If you believe her). That's all sin under the bridge, now. To qoute Poe's Raven, "Nevermore." Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I was in love with my MW, achingly so. As for her, I was hot affair sex; some guy who'd f@ck her in ways her husband wouldn't or couldn't. (If you believe her). That's all sin under the bridge, now. To qoute Poe's Raven, "Nevermore." Isnt that the way it always works? Sometimes its hard to tell when women are just telling us what we want to hear. I never take anyone at face value. Was she just a user? Or did she really want out of her M? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I think it would be more like until death of love Problem with that though is, even if the love isn't like it was, lives are SO entertwined (entwined? Spelling! You all know what I mean...) between family, kids, friends, the lifestyle...It's companionship, and as people grow older it's harder and harder to change and find someone new and exciting. Maybe it's just me, but at some point (and some may see this as settling -I guess it depends on what each person's values are and what's more important) you give up certain things to gain other things. And, most of the time those 'other' things are more important than being 100% happy and having all new excitment, passion in ones lives...(I hope this makes sense. On my second cup of coffee now..lol) Link to post Share on other sites
Herzen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Isnt that the way it always works? Sometimes its hard to tell when women are just telling us what we want to hear. I never take anyone at face value. Was she just a user? Or did she really want out of her M? I was a fun side dish. She remains married, and I'm pleased for her husband and young children. Life marches on. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I would like to see these questions on a more neutral board it would be intresting to see what they would say on the water cooler forum. Though I have to say my jaded still seems to fit me just fine. How frequent are "true love affairs"? How often are marriages "true love affairs"; I still think most people get married because it is what you are suppose to do to play a part in normal society. I still think if people today were not pressured in anyway to marry, only a small amount of the population would choose to do so, and an even smaller amount of those would choose to sign on the line that says untill death, I think it would be more like until death of love LOL... I doubt you will ever find a "neutral" group of people on this topic. Until then all you have is me! Yeah... Im jaded too. Its sad because I'm an idealist at heart. Poeple don't usually go into a marriage with the idea that its going to fail. Its just... theres no class for this. There is no training, no preparation. Plus, every experience I have ever had... thus far has ended in failure. Er... perhaps I shouldnt talk about me. Anyway. The point is that its HARD, sometimes you have to put others first, sometimes you need to set your ego aside, and you definitly need to learn how to communicate. But isnt the end goal worth it? Maybe its just me... but I believe deep down that I can do that... that I can make that work... and that it would be the most meaningful accomplishment of my life. Link to post Share on other sites
Herzen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Problem with that though is, even if the love isn't like it was, lives are SO entertwined (entwined? Spelling! You all know what I mean...) between family, kids, friends, the lifestyle...It's companionship, and as people grow older it's harder and harder to change and find someone new and exciting. Maybe it's just me, but at some point (and some may see this as settling -I guess it depends on what each person's values are and what's more important) you give up certain things to gain other things. And, most of the time those 'other' things are more important than being 100% happy and having all new excitment, passion in ones lives...(I hope this makes sense. On my second cup of coffee now..lol) You make excellent sense, WWIU. Marriage after awhile becomes primarily an existential entanglement--even as the erotic attraction wanes. Even now, I'm over at my ex-wife's to help with some heavy lifting around the house. This weekend, my ex and I are driving our daughter back to college. A marriage is easier to end than a family. And that's the way it should be. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I was a fun side dish. She remains married, and I'm pleased for her husband and young children. Life marches on. Your better than that! Demand it! Be the 7 course meal. I pity her Husband and young children. Ive been that kid... eventually it goes nuclear... and nobody gets out unscathed. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RealityCheck Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 ...It's companionship, and as people grow older it's harder and harder to change and find someone new and exciting. Maybe it's just me, but at some point (and some may see this as settling - I don't feel this way. WWIU, since I have been dating, I find it amazing at mid life. I was single for most of my 20's and now in my 40's and the difference in the 40's as opposed to the 20's is that people know what they want. They have lived enough experiences, are more established in their careers, many are divorced and have a realization of "marriage". Also, not many people want that live-in companionship at this age. Its like TC said, just someone to complement their life and there are plenty of those available. I gotta say, my date book is full! The beauty is I get my space and can enjoy life too in many ways. It's awesome! Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Yes, it does. The estrangement is heart breaking for everyone, but particularly the betrayed spouse. Everyone likes to talk about violation of trust as issue no.1, but it's not. For me, the emotional estrangement affairs cause, the obliteration of marital intimacy, is the real cost of an affair. I think that your statement here is accurate as far as it goes. While the affair is on-going, the loss is marital intimacy as the BS is not yet aware of the fact that trust has been betrayed. After the affair has been "outed" then loss of trust becomes the issue. The WS is not only willing but anxious to regain marital intimacy, but the BS has difficulty with rebuilding the intimacy. Intimacy can not really exist without trust. So for the BS, the loss of trust is #1. If the trust can be rebuilt, then the intimacy can be fully regained. Rebuilding trust though is a difficult step indeed. It takes an almost superhuman effort on the part of both. Link to post Share on other sites
lost4ever Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Problem with that though is, even if the love isn't like it was, lives are SO entertwined (entwined? Spelling! You all know what I mean...) between family, kids, friends, the lifestyle...It's companionship, and as people grow older it's harder and harder to change and find someone new and exciting. Maybe it's just me, but at some point (and some may see this as settling -I guess it depends on what each person's values are and what's more important) you give up certain things to gain other things. And, most of the time those 'other' things are more important than being 100% happy and having all new excitment, passion in ones lives...(I hope this makes sense. On my second cup of coffee now..lol) I understand that lives are intertwined (btw, there's the spelling:)) and I do not believe that is called settling, that is making a choice, I believe we should have that choice without the stigma of society, or even the burden of money, if we so choose to leave before our lifetime is up, I am not saying it is unnatural for two people to stay in love (even if it is not like it was in when it was new), I am saying marriage should not exsist as a contract it should just be an issue between two people Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Problem with that though is, even if the love isn't like it was, lives are SO entertwined (entwined? Spelling! You all know what I mean...) between family, kids, friends, the lifestyle...It's companionship, and as people grow older it's harder and harder to change and find someone new and exciting. Maybe it's just me, but at some point (and some may see this as settling -I guess it depends on what each person's values are and what's more important) you give up certain things to gain other things. And, most of the time those 'other' things are more important than being 100% happy and having all new excitment, passion in ones lives...(I hope this makes sense. On my second cup of coffee now..lol) Wow, this isn't something I can relate to at all. I'm definitely older and yet have zero problem with the idea of change. In fact I find it exciting and envigorating (which is a good thing, as the business I'm in is in constant flux!). I would not like to change husbands, but that's not because I am willing to give something up to gain something else. It's because I love him with all my heart. I didn't work to rebuild my marriage because I was afraid of meeting someone else, but because I wanted to remain married to the man I love. I am flirted with by men who are considerably younger than I. I don't need to beat anyone off me, but I've always known that other men were interested. I however am not available. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RealityCheck Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Wow, this isn't something I can relate to at all. I'm definitely older and yet have zero problem with the idea of change. In fact I find it exciting and envigorating (which is a good thing, as the business I'm in is in constant flux!). I would not like to change husbands, but that's not because I am willing to give something up to gain something else. It's because I love him with all my heart. I didn't work to rebuild my marriage because I was afraid of meeting someone else, but because I wanted to remain married to the man I love. I am flirted with by men who are considerably younger than I. I don't need to beat anyone off me, but I've always known that other men were interested. I however am not available. It's great that you know why you remain in your marriage. Seriously! However, there are many who stay out of settling or for convenience sake. Link to post Share on other sites
lost4ever Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ok following is a true story (I read it online) A tribe, long, long ago had a problem, everyone in the tribe was starting to have the same bloodline (this is not good btw)....So they started to do some research, Here was the problem, The women of the tribe were all having offspring by the same men, why because these men are the strong, able bodied hunters of the tribe. Here was the solution, Marriage The desired man choice which women he would have offspring with, she can not choose another man. The next desired man in line got his pick of mate, this stopped all of the women having children by the SAME man. Marriage was a tool used by un-civilized society to control the masses (think I stated this earlier) Now we can 'romanticize" marraige all we want by bring love and such into it, but it is not the reason, if you love someone and want to stay with them and want them to stay with you, you do not need a piece of paper "forcing" them to stay. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RealityCheck Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ok following is a true story (I read it online) A tribe, long, long ago had a problem, everyone in the tribe was starting to have the same bloodline (this is not good btw)....So they started to do some research, Here was the problem, The women of the tribe were all having offspring by the same men, why because these men are the strong, able bodied hunters of the tribe. Here was the solution, Marriage The desired man choice which women he would have offspring with, she can not choose another man. The next desired man in line got his pick of mate, this stopped all of the women having children by the SAME man. Marriage was a tool used by un-civilized society to control the masses (think I stated this earlier) Now we can 'romanticize" marraige all we want by bring love and such into it, but it is not the reason, if you love someone and want to stay with them and want them to stay with you, you do not need a piece of paper "forcing" them to stay. *clap* *clap* *clap* Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Another thing is that people today don't know how to let love grow beyond that initial infatuation stage which only lasts a few years they when that eventually wanes they drop their partner and move on to the next. They keep repeating that same cycle over and over again wondering why they never actually find love. They are addicted to that initially high which isn't actually love. People are not leased cars that you can trade in every few years. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 They keep repeating that same cycle over and over again wondering why they never actually find love. They are addicted to that initially high which isn't actually love. Two words - HOLLYWOOD CELEBS. No it isn't love. Feels like it, but it isn't long term, or the kind of love they even ALLOW to grow with and really bond in every way. Link to post Share on other sites
East of Jupiter Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The blatant and open manhaters are not the ones you need to worry about. The women with the subtle contempt for men are the ones you need to worry about and they are everywhere. Wog, I say the same about men. It's not the daring, macho in your face types I ever worried about. Never could tolerate the type anyway. It's those SBWHA (sneaky bastards with a hidding agenda) that do damage. This was my husband. Link to post Share on other sites
movinon05 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Another thing is that people today don't know how to let love grow beyond that initial infatuation stage which only lasts a few years they when that eventually wanes they drop their partner and move on to the next. They keep repeating that same cycle over and over again wondering why they never actually find love. They are addicted to that initially high which isn't actually love. People are not leased cars that you can trade in every few years. Ya know? I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. This is exactly the type of guy I run into often now while dating. Which is why I go running in the other direction! Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ok following is a true story (I read it online) A tribe, long, long ago had a problem, everyone in the tribe was starting to have the same bloodline (this is not good btw)....So they started to do some research, Here was the problem, The women of the tribe were all having offspring by the same men, why because these men are the strong, able bodied hunters of the tribe. Here was the solution, Marriage The desired man choice which women he would have offspring with, she can not choose another man. The next desired man in line got his pick of mate, this stopped all of the women having children by the SAME man. Marriage was a tool used by un-civilized society to control the masses (think I stated this earlier) Now we can 'romanticize" marraige all we want by bring love and such into it, but it is not the reason, if you love someone and want to stay with them and want them to stay with you, you do not need a piece of paper "forcing" them to stay. What does that piece of paper represent? Does it ever truely force someone to stay? Look, my point is this. You want out of a marriage... whats stopping you? Its not that bloody tough. If you cant step up to someone you "love" and tell them with HONESTY, that you want out, thats cowardice pure and simple. I dont see the shackles and chains. There's barely even a social stigma anymore. If you dont think you can commit to somebody... be friggin honest and upfront. BTW.... the tribal analogy, while I get the point... fails to reflect reality in so many ways. Link to post Share on other sites
movinon05 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 What does that piece of paper represent? Does it ever truely force someone to stay? Look, my point is this. You want out of a marriage... whats stopping you? Its not that bloody tough. If you cant step up to someone you "love" and tell them with HONESTY, that you want out, thats cowardice pure and simple. I dont see the shackles and chains. There's barely even a social stigma anymore. If you dont think you can commit to somebody... be friggin honest and upfront. BTW.... the tribal analogy, while I get the point... fails to reflect reality in so many ways. You're absolutely right! If its not gonna work, its not gonna work. Void the contract. I thank God I didn't allow myself to be ""emotionally" shackled. Yes, I did it the wrong way, but there was nothing that was going to stop me from ending the M when I finally opened up my eyes and grew some balls! Eww! That sounds gross. I can't believe I said that, but hey, you got the gist! Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 but there was nothing that was going to stop me from ending the M when I finally opened up my eyes and grew some balls! Eww! That sounds gross. I can't believe I said that, but hey, you got the gist! You have a way with mental pictures! Link to post Share on other sites
movinon05 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 You have a way with mental pictures! LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OMG!!!!!!!!!! I can't stop laughing! Hmmmmmmm. I'm having a moment. Is that good or bad? LMAOOOOOOO Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ya know? I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. This is exactly the type of guy I run into often now while dating. Which is why I go running in the other direction! What guys like me or guys like how I describe? Link to post Share on other sites
movinon05 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 What guys like me or guys like how I describe? Guys you describe. Honestly, Woggle, I have never met a guy like you or what I perceive you to be. Ummmm. Except you are real close to my exH! Although I know for a fact that he talks the talk and don't walk the walk. I don't know that about you! Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Another thing is that people today don't know how to let love grow beyond that initial infatuation stage which only lasts a few years they when that eventually wanes they drop their partner and move on to the next. They keep repeating that same cycle over and over again wondering why they never actually find love. They are addicted to that initially high which isn't actually love. People are not leased cars that you can trade in every few years. EXACTLY!! I'd like to add something, but I'd probably just screw it up. Link to post Share on other sites
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