I've made my decision-- needed!

[Zapbasket]

Hi Everybody,

 

Thanks for the comments, Norajane, 4WiW, Izzy, Leikela. And thanks for the b-day wishes and for checking up on me, Tinke. I took a break from LS for a bit--partly because it was my birthday last week and I was busy celebrating , and then this week's break was unintentional as I had a bad case of food poisoning that slowed me down for several days.

 

I've heard nothing from him since calling him on the 9th, which is pretty much what I expected. I did hold a tiny hope that he'd contact me to wish me a happy birthday, but I didn't expect much there as his doing so would be a huge gesture and frankly, even if I wanted to get back with someone I don't think I'd use their birthday as the time to do it. Too strong a gesture.

 

It's obvious, as it has been obvious for some time, that for all intents and purposes, for now, for the forseeable future, and possibly forever (whatever "forever" means), he and I are to be out of each other's lives. I do not intend to contact him again in the forseeable future. I don't think it's because he doesn't care, or necessarily because he no longer loves me, or never loved me; though this could be true my sense tells me that yes, our relationship had deteriorated, we were not communicating, frustrations were high, and he just had enough and yes, he decided to bank on the possibility that there was a better relationship out there for him--whether with someone else or with me well down the road when our lives have progressed far from where they were at the time of the breakup, I honestly don't think he thought that far or that specifically. This doesn't make him a bad person, or a bad future partner for someone; he weighed what he was willing and able to deal with in a relationship and felt he didn't want to deal with the problems that had arisen in ours and so he made the decision he felt best for him.

 

I don't think he did it in the most fair, caring, or compassionate of ways, but it's all he was capable of at the time. And anyway, if he were capable of the kind of honest communication that would have softened the blow of the pure SHOCK this breakup was, we'd not have had most of the problems that were creating the frustrations that broke us up in the first place. He was a distancer and conflict-avoidant in the relationship; he was the same way in exiting it and how could it have been any different?

 

This has all hurt so much, and still does. Food poisoning is food poisoning, but I'm so rarely sick that when I am, I always feel it's an indication that there's emotional stuff dragging me down. I think all the emotion of the whole breakup, and the recent contact, just was more than I could process and it made me susceptible to illlness. I just feel worn out by the whole thing, and so so sad....

 

Yet even so, life moves on. That's the funny thing, isn't it? That just by being alive and making a commitment to apply yourself as best you can to the tasks, mundane and not so mundane, each day sets before you, doors open, connections are redefined, renewed, created...even when your heart is stuck on one traumatic event like a terrified housecat on a high branch.

 

To be honest, I really don't know how I feel anymore. I do know that I have a long way to go before I'll have the clarity of mind and soul necessary for taking a chance with a new partner. Not that there's anyone at all on the horizon, anyway. A whole city, saturated with people, and the pickings seem very slim indeed.

 

And despite all these platitudes, or manifestations of newfound steely jadedness, I can't help it: I STILL HOPE THAT AS TIME PASSES, SOMETHING WILL STIR WITHIN HIM AND HE'LL VENTURE TO CONTACT ME, TO OPEN THE DOOR EVEN JUST A TINY CRACK. From having lived in this city for 7 years before, I know it's inevitable that we will bump into each other, and I'd rather it be an encounter that means something, rather than a random encounter that leaves me feeling wistful and possibly offended.

 

If anyone got this far reading this long post, thanks. I'm just sharing thoughts after a bit of a hiatus, and as always would love to hear people's responses. This board has been a Godsend.

 

Tinke, you never answered my question: how are YOU doing? If you fear "hijacking" this thread, feel free to PM me

[Zapbasket]

Okay. In what has become a pattern of late, I can't sleep because I'm so overwrought. I think there are two main things that keep me from accepting this breakup:

 

1. The fact that, at least as indicated by his behavior (which is all I have to go on), he is so certain he wants absolutely nothing to do with me. I feel like I must have done something terribly wrong to make him feel that way, and since he never communicated to me the extent of his frustration, I don't know what it is. Since I didn't cheat or do anything that by any account is pretty much a deal-breaker, it's all the more mysterious. This keeps me from feeling confident about looking ahead to the possibility of a "better" relationship in the future: if I don't know what I did so drastically wrong as to merit someone's complete lack of desire to have anything to do with me, then it seems possible I'll make the same mistake in the future, not knowing.

 

In the face of his certainty and 100% consistent behavior since the breakup, I feel very insecure about the fact that in contrast to him I still can't see why this relationship HAD to end. There were problems, but to my mind all were things we could work on. I feel he's become a stranger to me in that clearly in his mind a) this relationship was untenable and b) he made the right decision to break up with me. Meanwhile I'm still not comprehending why the dynamics of our relationship required something so permanent.

 

I mean, he must have some REASON why it would not be possible to meet me for a coffee, a walk in the park, something to clarify things? Why would it be so awful to SEE me?

 

I feel like he sees everything clearly, and I'm in the dark. And this drives me nuts, because it means as each day passes presumably he continues to move on and on and on, and while I move forward as I said in the post above, I'm still stuck.

 

2. The fact that, when I think back over the trajectory of our 5-year relationship, it seems that the problems started when he took a job in his home city on the west coast and I started grad school in the midwest, forcing us to be long distance. These choices on both our parts created a problem--the problem of distance--that we were unable to solve. I know that our inability to solve this problem suggests other, more fundamental problems, i.e., communication, trust, commitment, etc.

 

But I also know that the distance created a great strain, and in coping withi that strain we were both irritable where we otherwise might not have been, and we were deprived of the regular physical contact (I don't just mean sex) that is so important for fostering trust and closeness.

 

And what kills me, KILLS ME, is that finally we'd solved the problem of the distance. FINALLY he got situated in a job that brought him to the big city near me. FINALLY I finished my degree that had caused me such career-confusion and disappointment, and I got a good job also in the big city near me. And he moves here, and BAM, he ends the relationship. So I keep wondering what if: If we'd not had the distance, how might the trajectory of the relationship differed? I, too, was frustrated with the relationship last fall as we were arguing non-stop, but I was nowhere near leaving, as I'd invested many years and hopes and dreams into the relationship and had waited a long time for this chance to be together all the time, and I wanted to give it everything I had to make it work.

 

And this brings me back to reason #1 of why I think I'm having such a hard time accepting this breakup. If it were just that the relationship had accumulated too much baggage for him, through all the distance, etc., they wouldn't he be able to have an amicable, mutually respect-full meeting with me where we could talk about what happened? In being so staunch about not wanting to see me, it makes me feel like maybe he never respected me, which opens up this whole can of worms of, Was I with someone who, in truth, deep down NEVER RESPECTED ME? And then I flip that: does he refuse to see me because he felt, in all my anger towards him last fall when he moved here, that I didn't respect him? Truth is I respected him very much, but simultaneously throughout the relationship I also found him to be very immature about a lot of things, and I would call him out on it. Last fall he even ADMITTED he knew he was being immature and to please call him out on it.

 

In my really low points, my mind then goes here: if it's true he never respected me...does it mean I'm somehow lacking in some fundamental way? Am I not respect-able? Was I somehow not good enough for him? In tougher moments, I poo-poo these thoughts before they even have a chance to announce themselves in my mind. Nevertheless I know they're in there, lurking silently....

 

Anyway, it helps to get this down. I really think my "stuckness" circles mainly on these two things, and everything else radiates out from these two things. Any thoughts?

[OpenBook]

I do not intend to contact him again in the forseeable future.

 

Smart move!! If there's to be any hope that you're still on his mind, this is the only way to play it.

 

I don't think it's because he doesn't care, or necessarily because he no longer loves me, or never loved me.

 

I don't think it's that either. I'm sure there was something special there for him. But you must accept the fact that he is a different person from you, with different feelings, life experience, different ways of reacting to things. JUST BECAUSE YOU FEEL SOMETHING, DOESN'T MEAN HE FEELS THE SAME THING. Really the only thing you can do with a man is look at his BEHAVIOR, and take it from there.

 

He was a distancer and conflict-avoidant in the relationship; he was the same way in exiting it and how could it have been any different?

 

From what I gather of your personality from your posts, this doesn't sound like it would work for you, in the long run. Maybe that's part of the "draw" or attraction for you - he's always pulling back, and it makes you want to draw him in all the more. That doesn't work between two people. Bad combination.

 

Yet even so, life moves on. That's the funny thing, isn't it? That just by being alive and making a commitment to apply yourself as best you can to the tasks, mundane and not so mundane, each day sets before you, doors open, connections are redefined, renewed, created...even when your heart is stuck on one traumatic event like a terrified housecat on a high branch.

 

I love that analogy! And yes, life goes on (Thank God!!). It feels like pure drudgery at first. (And a lot of it actually IS.) But as time goes by, you start lifting your head and noticing tiny little things that are GOOD.

 

And the more experience you pack under your belt, the more you realize that life is too short for us to dwell for a long time on the negative stuff. There's just too many ways for us to spend our brief time here on earth joyfully.

 

I STILL HOPE THAT AS TIME PASSES, SOMETHING WILL STIR WITHIN HIM AND HE'LL VENTURE TO CONTACT ME, TO OPEN THE DOOR EVEN JUST A TINY CRACK.

 

Well, you just go on hoping then. Think about him as much as you want to. JUST DON'T CONTACT HIM AGAIN. Give yourself lots of time to think through this. Time is your best friend right now.

 

I also found him to be very immature about a lot of things, and I would call him out on it. Last fall he even ADMITTED he knew he was being immature and to please call him out on it.

 

Good! You're starting to see cracks in your Michelangelo. As more time passes, more and more of the truth will be revealed to you, and you will achieve the clarity you seek. Just give yourself some time.

 

In my really low points, my mind then goes here: if it's true he never respected me...does it mean I'm somehow lacking in some fundamental way? Am I not respect-able? Was I somehow not good enough for him?

 

Stop that. RIGHT NOW. His poor treatment of you has NOTHING to do with your "respectableness." Your personalities just ended up not meshing very well. It was a bad combination. That's it.

[4whatItsWorth]

GC, am glad you'll be moving on and happy birthday (even if it's late!). My ex was cold like this too...some guys are. Just be happy now you can find someone even more special who will rock your world the way you deserve!

[underpants]

Happy birthday (belated as it may be).

 

May this birthday springboard you into a happier future as you firmly bounce from the past.

 

....you gave it you best and did all that you could. No shame or second guessing needed.

 

Now, go get fabulous for Mr. Right.

[tinke]

greencove..good to hear from you!

me? i am doing ok...functioning anyway. like you, i had become ill, and do believe it is from all the strain. but, i feel myself moving in the acceptance phase. quite frankly, i'm exhausted from it all....i quit!

we had similar situations, including the LD, and then...gone! but, i feel with more time that passes, i think less fondly of him.

 

G.C., i have to be honest with you. i feel yours may have someone else or at least believed he did. maybe after being apart from you, he realized he did not want to return to you, for whatever reason. i am glad to see you are heading towards acceptance.

 

you did all you can do, and will not have to wonder what if.

you simply cannot do anymore at this point!

 

you may not be at the point of seeking out potential dates, but, one day you will.

you received the answer you were searching for, as you said, the silence will tell all.

now, the work begins.

 

conflict/avoidant people (i believe) tend to exaggerate situations, simply because they are avoidant. this is about him. regardless of what happened, the way in which it ended was unfair to you. which is why you keep dangling on.

but you know now, he did not reply. period!

please try not to replay step by step actions.

just replay, i made an attempt and he refused..again!

it is off you now, you tried. let him be the one to carry any ill effects from leaving and the way in which it happened.

 

i find myself dwelling less and replaying less. i did not leave..he did. we cannot do anymore!

 

please take care of yourself

[Leikela]

It sounds like you really do need closure from this relationship. There are so many questions in your mind. Would it help maybe to get up the courage to call him again and to tell him that you would like to meet with him because you have a few things on your mind that you want to get off? I know that takes a lot but you could be honest with him and tell him that you need closure to your relationship. See how he receptive he is to that idea. I think talking things over with him as a kind of finalization would benefit you greatly. It sounds as though he's made up his mind so maybe talking to him will help you sort out yours.

 

Best of luck to you!

[cld24]

I have read quite a bit of your posts on this subject and can understand how and why you are feeling this way. Once, before meeting my husband, I too went through something very difficult and similar to what you are experiencing. My perception on this is that he wants you to get over him. He does not want to communicate with you because he knows you still have feelings and he doesn't want to hurt you more. Thats just my take on things and I am nowhere near an expert of course. Hopefully things will turn out for the best for you. I now thank my ex (in my mind) because if I had held onto him I would have never given my wonderful husband a chance. My ex suddenly turning his back on me was the best thing he could have done, even though at the time it was terrible.

[Zapbasket]

Hi CLD24,

 

Thanks for your reply. Thanks to the other folks, too; I'm sorting through the things you all have said and will post responses soon.

 

My perception on this is that he wants you to get over him. He does not want to communicate with you because he knows you still have feelings and he doesn't want to hurt you more.

 

You may be right; what do I know at this point? It's just that the whole way he effected this breakup showed no care or forethought or awareness of what I might feel, and so I feel wary of crediting him with judiciously weighing his feelings in the context of what he thinks are mine. One of the reasons I'm having a hard time still accepting the breakup is that he effected it so suddenly and his manner of doing it, it was like he was reacting to his feelings of the moment and not to something he'd really thought through.

 

From knowing him for 5 years (if that evidence even counts anymore; sometimes I ask myself, "Did I really EVER know him?" and then I think, yes, the lingering impressions I have from our time together must have *some* validity...but then I'm not sure...), I suspect that he can't see me because it's just all out of the scope of his being able to deal. He can't see me because he can't give me any answers and knowing me as he does he knows I'll eventually ask. He can't give me answers because he can't give himself answers because, really, he just doesn't know himself; he never did, and maybe never will. He's so firm in his decision because he felt Bad and Overwhelmed in the relationship and he did what he always did, he ran and then stonewalled. When you count on your stone wall to enable you to deal with difficulties, it's too threatening ever to let it down.

 

I write all this out (as you can see I'm the queen of long replies, lol) because this deep down is what I believe to be true. It's gleaned from all the impressions I built up over the years with him. Now that I have some of the brainmuscle back to be able to think objectively, I have to say to myself, "Greencove, if this is what you believe to be true, then take a hard look at it. If this is true of him, then a relationship with him at this stage in your lives is not the relationship for you."

 

Our relationship was amazing for the first 2 years. It was the amazingness of this period that kept us together, I think, for the very challenging 3 years that followed--all the long distance, etc. But what characterized these first 2 years was that we didn't have to make any big decisions about the future of the relationship. As soon as any planning or discussion was involved, my partner just couldn't meet the task. I don't think it's because he didn't care for me and was just stringing me along. Rather, I think it's just that he was unaware that planning and discussing together is a necessary part of having an intimate relationship. He wanted us always to be on the same page without ever having to work together to write the page. We fell into trouble as time went on because I had plans. And I tried at every step to include him in making the plans so that our future could unfold to his liking. He never took the bait, but stood back and watched it all unfold, and then when he didn't like what was happening, he'd become grumpy and withdrawn, leaving me always to guess, to worry, and consequently to become anxious and then, amidst the stony silence, clingy.

 

Now, if all this is true, he can't be the man for me. Maybe, just maybe, he realized that...because certainly throughout the relationship that is what he feared. One reason his breaking up with me was such a shock is because HE was always afraid I was going to break up with HIM. Maybe he knew he just couldn't keep up, and he was afraid that it would be only a matter of time before I realized that and left him. This could explain why he became extremely anxious once I finished my thesis and started my job last fall.

 

I look at him, and I see a loving, good person whose stance is to let things happen around him rather than shape how they happen, who is most comfortable in situations where nothing is expected of him yet who meets expectations in that he always does good work, in grad school and at his jobs, and in that he always shows up when he says he's going to and does what he says he's going to do. But the kind of intimacy I was asking him for, he was incapable of giving.

 

Here my convictions waver, because I think, how can someone be so out to lunch in certain key respects, while also being so ON in others? His mom said to me once early on in the relationship and then again when I talked to her after the breakup: "____ doesn't know his own mind." I felt it to be true...but then I get insecure. Maybe, I think, it was just with ME that he was so passive. Maybe without meaning to he did just string me along, and with some other woman he'll be the one leading the way in the relationship. But in more secure moments, I feel he just failed to step up...and it was just that: a failure.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out whether indeed we were wrong for each other, or the timing was bad. I feel that without knowing this, it makes it harder to let go.

 

It's encouraging, CLG, to read that you had something similar happen but then met someone you loved enough to marry. Thanks for sharing that. May I ask: do you ever think about this ex? Do you ever, in the private folds of your mind, wonder "what if"? Do you ever feel that there still is a tiny piece of your heart that is with him?

[Zapbasket]

Even so (per what I said above), I just miss him. Terribly. Even after all this time--we haven't seen each other in nearly 9 months.

 

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

 

I just read through some old e-mail exchanges between us from a year ago. Lots of "I love yous" and happy banter. I wish I didn't have to get ready for work and could just pull the covers up over my head. Or I wish I had a giant foghorn that curved all the way uptown where he is and I could call out: "_________, I MISS YOU! I MISS YOU SO MUCH!"

 

*sigh*

[cld24]

May I ask: do you ever think about this ex? Do you ever, in the private folds of your mind, wonder "what if"? Do you ever feel that there still is a tiny piece of your heart that is with him?

 

Yes I have thought about him. The times I have thought of him I was basically thinking of how different my life would be if I were still with him and I am SO glad I am not. I never would have thought this back then though, not at all. And there is not one bit of my heart that is with him. My husband has all of my heart and he appreciates it and his is with me. Its just amazing to me how things can change so much with time. Oh and to let you know how I knew I was definately over ex was when he would call during our no contact and my heart would no longer skip a beat. There were lots of other things too but that was one of the 1st.

[Blackberry]

I think it might help if you started to picture him making love to another woman. Think about that, and maybe that will help you with closure. He has moved on with his life, and he is an attractive man, he has certainly been intimate with another woman by now and he was not thinking of you when he was doing so. He is very likely with her this weekend making love to her many times. He has moved on. It has been 9 months. You are not the center of his universe. Don't make him yours.

The fact is that every relationship is great at one point, otherwise it would end right away after the first date.

Your ex fell out of love with you. You do not really like the way he broke up with you, you seem to want a further explanation and an excuse to get together again. However, from your post, it seems very much like he knew your tendencies, and he knows that no matter what you would not accept whatever explanation he had. In other words, when he realized the moment he knew COMPLETELY that he did NOT want to be in a relationship with you any longer, he KNEW that you would NOT be satisfied with any reasoning he gave. Now here you are nine months later, still torturing yourself with what if's, when the truth is very simple and clear: He was just not that into you, and he still is not, and he has no plans on you being a part of his future. Accept this, revel in it, and look forward to a happy future with the idea of a man more suited to you who can love you fully, and vice versa, one who can give you the ULTIMATE commitment as your ex was ultimately NOT able to do!

[Zapbasket]

Blackberry, I had to laugh out loud at the first para of your post because I KNOW who he was with this weekend and trust me, it's about as far as you can get from having great sex with someone else. He was with one of his old grad school cronies, a man who has some of the worst social skills I've ever seen. I also know that he hasn't seen anyone these past 9 months and he isn't seeing anyone now--this info comes from a very reliable source.

 

Meanwhile...was I thinking about him two weekends ago while I was making out with my very cute FWB? Nope.

 

Sorry, my ego has taken enough bruising. I have had enough. I will never, ever enter into a long distance relationship again, and I am disgusted that I was with someone who could have treated me so disrespectfully in the end. I don't care what he knew about my "tendencies" (uhhmmm, for honesty? Communication? Sincerity? Problem-solving? Last I checked, those were good things; I think I"ll keep them), if he had any backbone or integrity he wouldn't have exited in the downright pussy way he did. Period. Regardless of whether he had any respect for me or not. I'm fully convinced that if I'd not pursued the matter after he hung up on me initially upon telling me it was over, he'd have been all to glad not to contact me again and do the break-up decently. He's a pussy. I'm tired of making excuses for him.

 

What I'm having trouble with now is myself. Why did I put up with what I did? When he made no effort to communicate and would complain about having to talk on the phone and take his frustration out by hanging up on me, when he avoided all my efforts to discuss the logistics of our moving in together and told me that he could get a roommate who could pay more than I could, when he just plain failed to meet my emotional needs, why did I hold on? I know some people will leap gleefully to the reply button to tell me he never loved me, but I think it's more complex than that...something along the lines of he loved me as best he was able at that particular time. I think he didn't know what he wanted, I think he didn't know what to make of me, and I think he is conflict-avoidant...and those three things made him frustratingly indecisive. I guess I held on because I believed that he'd sort out what he wanted and become decisive, which he did, it was just not in the way I expected. I didn't expect it because from my perspective it's like he went from trailing along in the relationship and being too passive to really give himself to it, to just ending it, and I guess I can't believe that someone could be...such a wuss. Because if his passivity was indeed him not loving me, why on earth did he hold on? What does anyone get out of a long distance relationship if they're not fully committed to being with the other person long-term? Any ideas?

 

Totally baffling; I feel I wasted my time and if I could erase all memory of the past 5 years, I would.

[Zapbasket]

Okay. That last post did not come from my better self. I just did not feel my ego could take any more, and I felt it's time I reclaim a little dignity in this situation. I apologize if I sounded grumpy and I'm sorry for this long post; as always if anyone makes their way through it I'd appreciate feedback, similar stories, etc. I'm really trying to learn from this awful experience so I don't make the same mistakes again.

 

I said that the problem I was having right now was with myself. Why, when I was so frustrated about his refusal or inability to communicate with me, didn't I do something other than complain until I felt like an awful shrew...which is NOT like me at all? Basically what I did was hold fast to what I wanted from our relationship and then demand that he fulfill that need by communicating with me. I basically sent a message, "You have to change." In my anger he felt the pressure, I imagine, and when the unpleasantness reached a head last fall, he chose to leave the relationship.

 

Now, I don't blame myself for what I did. I spent a lot of time patiently asking him to communicate with me before I got frustrated with him. But looking back through e-mails, I can see that basically I complained about the SAME THING for two whole years! How unproductive was that??? If it upset me so much, why did I not have the integrity to leave?

 

Admittedly I'm not good at ending relationships. I always believe that people can change if they want to. I know my partner understood that his lack of communication was a problem and I think that was initially one of the reasons he was drawn to me; he felt I drew him out. But it can't have felt good that I was frustrated with him so much of the time.

 

There WERE a lot of good things in our relationship. One of the reasons it hurts when someone writes that he never loved me is that I felt there was a lot of love between us; if I didn't feel that then I wouldn't have such a hard time getting over this. It's almost easier to recognize that someone never loved you, than to see that you two loved each other a lot but both mishandled the relationship to the point of no return, and to still feel the love beneath all the rubble and wounds.

 

I guess because of these good things, despite my frustration I continued to have faith that things would work out. But how can I learn from this, since obviously my way of responding to his lack of communication was completely unproductive? I've said before that my biggest regret is basically losing my moorings at the end, I was so angry. It feels so undignified and I feel so...exposed and ridiculous for letting myself go to that place. I wish instead that I had simply stated, after seeing that the communication problem was not going to go away, "This is not okay. I need you to communicate with me. Is there a way we can work together so that you can feel it's safe to communicate with me?" ANd then, if he didn't work with me (which, sadly, I believe he would not have and in fact, I *did* try this at one point in the spring of 2005), I should have had the self-respect to end the relationship, despite the heartbreak it would cause me. Would that have been a better response?

 

BEcause basically what I did was to hand him all the power, and I think that's why I'm feeling so disrespected all these months later. Things were going badly, and rather than operate from my adult self, I let myself become over-emotional and irrational. I was desperate last fall for him to DO SOMETHING or SAY SOMETHING...and what I expected, and hoped, he would do would be to say, "This has to stop. Things are not going well and I'm not liking it and we have to find another way." But instead his doing something was to just end the relationship, in that way further demonstrating his inability to communicate. And this, too, makes me feel degraded because he turned upon me the one thing about him that I had the greatest issue with...when I could have been the one to have ended it years earlier.

 

It makes me wonder whether it was a self-esteem issue that kept me in this relationship to the point of having to be degraded the way I was in the end, because I handed over all my power. Self-esteem, or naivete? I can't really tell.

 

Have any of you wondered things like this? Or has anyone been on the receiving end of this? (I'd especially like to hear from men on this one, whose significant others responded similarly.)

[4whatItsWorth]

Have any of you wondered things like this? Or has anyone been on the receiving end of this? (I'd especially like to hear from men on this one, whose significant others responded similarly.)

 

Have been, girl. I'm wishing for us both to get out of there - the guys we still have a soft spot for really REALLY does not deserve it...

 

Like you, I am learning a lot and asking myself questions like "Why didn't I just leave? Why can't I be as cold towards him as he is towards me?"

 

Trust me, we have a lot in common when it comes to exes...

[Zapbasket]

I was talking with my mom on the phone a while ago, telling her about some good work things that have been happening to me lately. I said also that even while these good things are going on, I feel his absence constantly.

 

Now, my mom can sometimes be very understanding, but in general she really doesn't have a lot of patience with emotions. This has revealed itself all throughout my life by her being often quite snappish when I'm feeling at my lowest. Why I still continue to confide my feelings to her knowing she can be this way is something I'm trying to figure out so I can change how I interact with her. But...

 

...sure enough, when I started to lose it on the phone with her after saying I miss him every day, still, she got annoyed. I knew I should take that as a cue to just suck back the emotion spilling over and graciously bow out of our phone conversation, but instead I continued. I asked her, "Mom, do you think I was a bad girlfriend?" And she quite snappishly said, "Yes I do," and then said she had to go and we hung up.

 

So now I'm feeling like complete crap.

 

It's true, I didn't make our relationship my priority over all else. Not because I wasn't invested, but because I wanted to make sure I really gave my all to completing my education. I have yet to meet someone who has had to feel so much guilt over pursuing her education as I have felt finishing my masters. And I resent that this pursuit earns me nothing but the moniker of "Bad Girlfriend." I mean, was I wrong to have given my best to something that I felt would really benefit me long-term in terms of career prospects and personal growth, and by extension, our relationship?

 

I am a very loyal person and when I form relationships I give my all to them. I gave my all to my relationship with my ex and unfortunately "my all" had to be given at a time when I was also expending a lot of energy investing in my future. Is that so wrong? I NEVER thought of my education as just for me, but for OUR future. After all, he'd already finished his Ph.D. and was in a very high-paying job, and I felt "behind," like I didn't have anything to offer. HE inspired me to work as hard as I did. Would no partner ever understand this?

 

Ugh. Things really are going well for me work-wise right now, and I feel the direction things are taking really owes to all my hard work. I was completely sincere with him about my goals and now I'm seeing everything begin to bear fruit. Yet I can't help feeling awful about the possibility that this person I loved so much only thought it all made me a "Bad Girlfriend."

 

It just makes me feel like, in my next relationship, I'll just make sure I have no goals and just focus on being a good wife and mother. The guilt I keep feeling I have to feel about the prior choices I made just isn't worth it.

[norajane]

It makes me wonder whether it was a self-esteem issue that kept me in this relationship to the point of having to be degraded the way I was in the end, because I handed over all my power. Self-esteem, or naivete? I can't really tell.

 

You held on because you never seriously asked yourself - am I happy? are we really right for each other considering how hard it is for us to even talk about stuff?

 

Oh, you may have asked it, but I'm pretty sure you immediately rejected that the answer might be: no, we actually aren't good for each other. We may have been at one point, but we aren't now and haven't been for a long time, and I haven't been happy in a long time.

 

Why? Fear. Fear always underlies the choices that we don't make. You didn't want to make the decision to walk away, because you were afraid to. You hung on long after the expiration date because you thought if you kept talking and talking and telling him what you wanted, that he would eventually meet your needs, but even if he didn't, you weren't going to walk away...fear. Maybe fear of failure. You strike me as the type of person who doesn't want to fail - even when you were miserable and crawling along with your dissertation, you wouldn't even consider not doing it.

 

So you stayed in the relationship and thought if you kept at it, like your dissertation, despite how miserable you were, you'd eventually reach the goal. Because that's how you've always done things - you tough it out. It never occurred to you that it's ok to call it quits and admit that the relationship is no longer right.

 

And as for you thinking all the hard work you put into your degree being at fault...well, did you have to isolate yourself form him to do it? Seriously, there were no schools where you could study and live near him, even if it might not have been THE best school in the country? You couldn't have done both the relationship and school? I ask this not to make you feel like it was your fault, but to show you that you made a choice to distance yourself from him while reaching your goals...AS DID HE...and this distance grew and grew into an emotional one as well as a physical one, until it was the emotional distance that was a problem when he moved to be with you.

One of my friends packed up the house and moved 6 times within 3 years, b/c her bf's company kept transferring him, and his career was the kind that required him to chase jobs around the country. They made the choice that the relationship came first, and they were in it together. Neither of them wanted to put it on hold while they met their goals and then come together. That was the right choice for them.

 

And you made the right choice for you. Don't blame yourself for the choices you made. You made the ones that were right for you, AS DID . HE. However, this relationship was not right for you, not after the first year or two...which is usually when the honeymoon period ends anyway. You can love people and still not be good together, you know.

[Zapbasket]

You hung on long after the expiration date because you thought if you kept talking and talking and telling him what you wanted, that he would eventually meet your needs, but even if he didn't, you weren't going to walk away...

 

And as for you thinking all the hard work you put into your degree being at fault...well, did you have to isolate yourself form him to do it? Seriously, there were no schools where you could study and live near him, even if it might not have been THE best school in the country? You couldn't have done both the relationship and school?

 

It worked out like this: I was in the last year of my BA and he was in the last year of his Ph.D. We both were casting nets into the future at the time our relationship was still new and taking shape, and we were growing closer in a very natural, lovely way...but weren't quite at the point of explicitly making plans for a future TOGETHER. So I applied to graduate schools as I'd planned all along even before I met him, and after he sorted out whether he wanted to go into academia or industry (he chose industry), he began applying for jobs in New York and Boston. I got into a top program at a top uni in the midwest and was rejected from the other programs, so my choice was grad school at that uni or no grad school for the time being. For him, it was unfortunately a very bad year for finding jobs in his industry, and he had no luck with the places he applied on the east coast. Due to connections from an internship he had in undergrad at the uni in his home city, he got an offer at a really good firm in his home city and he took it. I'd had to give my uni an answer two months before that. But my program was only a year, and so we agreed to go LD for that year and then find a way to be together after that.

 

The moment I maybe made a wrong decision was towards the end of my program. I realized I wasn't going to finish my thesis in time. We'd agreed over winter break that we'd both move to Toronto together in the summer, because his company was starting a new division there. But it never did, and our communication breakdown started with him not coming forward to say that things didn't look good regarding that new division ever panning out. I was the one who realized that and said, "So it doesn't seem like it's happening; what's our Plan B?" He wanted me to move to his home city.

 

ANd then it went like this: he pressured me to move to be with him after my program was done. I was totally lost because I had this unfinished degree hanging over my head, and it was in literature, which we all know is rife with lucrative post-grad job prospects . So I was pretty confused, but I really wanted to be with him and felt willing to get the visa (he's Canadian) and find a job in his city.

 

BUT I was looking for some real encouragement from him. After all, I was going to be moving in the midst of his whole family--grandparents, cousins, the whole shebang--and friends from elementary school. His milieu was going to be my milieu right off the bat and I was intimidated. I wanted only to hear from him how much his family wanted me there (they all seemed to REALLY like me) and how eager he was to have all his longtime friends get to know me, etc. But what he said was this: he called upset and said that his mom, when he told her I couldn't finish my thesis on time, asked him whether I was obsessive-compulsive or manic-depressive since I'd taken so long to finish my BA (went to music conservatory for 3 years and then decided to get degrees in literature and psychology instead, so it added up to 7 years), and now my masters. It felt like he was voicing his own doubts through his mother. I felt very misunderstood and offended.

 

It hurt so, so, much. Mainly because I was having such doubts about myself, e.g., what is wrong with me that I can't finish, am I screwed up, etc. What I know now is that it was a crossroads for me, where I had to come to terms with having been raised by artists to be an artist, and I thought I wanted to be a fiction writer but was drawn to academia but then hated academic writing and was discovering also that a life dedicated to pursuing artistic success wasn't really the life I wanted--it was like a whole culture shock and revolution; I really can't even begin to explain. (And on one level, I'm so glad I worked so hard to sort out these questions, because I'm now beginning to see it really pay off, which is such a validation for me after so much self-doubt and agony and heartache.) But at the time, it felt like a deep rejection by the one I thought loved me best. Also because it belied his professed desire to have me move there--why, I thought, if you want someone to move to be with your whole milieu from early childhood on, would you tell them something like THAT and not offer instead constant reassurances of how welcome they'll be, etc.?

 

I told him I was hurt; I asked him, "Why?" And he didn't have an answer, nor did he really apologize. In the swirl of all that was going on in my mind at the time, I listened to my intuition, which told me that I had something I had to sort out for myself, in order to be a solid person and solid partner in a way that would last far into the future...and that he was neither mature enough nor aware enough to be able to give me the kind of support I felt I needed to get through this ordeal. Also, perhaps I, too, was not mature enough to take the step to become so fully a part of his family when I was so uncertain about myself and my direction in life. It was especially difficult because his family is so practically oriented; an artist type is highly appreciated by them, but they don't understand. Or such was my impression: that I'd be steeped in a milieu that could never understand what I was grappling with. I felt it highly likely that even despite his affections and those of his family and friends, given what I was going through I'd privately feel very isolated, and I felt it likely that that isolation coupled with unresolved confusion would create a great internal pressure that would lead to us breaking up. Ironically--and I'd thought about this long and hard before I made my decision--I felt our relationship stood a BETTER chance if I DIDN'T move there right away.

 

Norajane, perhaps at that moment, when I saw that he just didn't get it, I should have left him. I was hurt very deeply by his comment about his mom and when he broke up with me that was the only thing he apologized for or took any blame for. Finally, over 2 years later, I received the apology that if he'd given me at the time it happened, I very likely would have moved to be with him. Moving home to my mom's was not exactly the most attractive option; I'd much rather have been in his beautiful city with him. (I also really liked his family and felt a real connection with his parents, another reason why I was so hurt by what he said.)

 

You're right that I stayed on because I believed that he'd recognize what I was going through, and recognize that I was completely sincere and devoted to us while also feeling like I had to muscle through my vocation uncertainties, and that he had the maturity, strength, willingness to communicate, and devotion to stick by me. He did stick by me, but with constant resentment and mistrust, which made me feel terribly guilty, which was awful when already I was confused enough and self-esteem-battered enough as it was.

[norajane]

I listened to my intuition, which told me that I had something I had to sort out for myself, in order to be a solid person and solid partner in a way that would last far into the future...and that he was neither mature enough nor aware enough to be able to give me the kind of support I felt I needed

And that's the bottom line for your relationship - he was not the kind of guy who could really BE the kind of guy you needed for a long term partner. You knew that back then - you just didn't carry it through and end the relationship in addition to staying apart physically.

 

So don't beat yourself up for your choices or for what happened. You just weren't right for each other, and that's why everything happened the way it did.

[Zapbasket]

And that's the bottom line for your relationship - he was not the kind of guy who could really BE the kind of guy you needed for a long term partner. You knew that back then - you just didn't carry it through and end the relationship in addition to staying apart physically.

 

So don't beat yourself up for your choices or for what happened. You just weren't right for each other, and that's why everything happened the way it did.

 

*sigh* I wish I could see that clearly. I mean, I did feel at the time that what I needed to do *at that time* required a kind of understanding and support from him that i knew he couldn't give. But I also felt, at the same time as all this was going on, that outside of the immediate concerns of the moment we *were* right for each other. I mean, now that I'm done with my degree and sorted out the many questions that accompanied it, the way I'm living my life is very much in tune with what would have worked great for us had I been living this way several years ago. I felt we *did* want the same things out of life and from what I hear about how he's pursuing his life right now, it seems we're doing things in parallel, like two rivers spilling into the same ocean but divided by a strip of densely-forested land that keeps the two rivers out of each other's view.

 

You know what my fear is? I fear that perhaps I was too ambitious, and now no man will want me because I have too much drive. I'm not a workaholic by any means--I play hard as much as I work hard, but I definitely seek some kind of leadership opportunity in my life. Doesn't have to be high-profile; I might be happy being a leader in my family and nowhere else. After all, if I didn't care about my future success I'd have just blown off the degree and moved to be with him and maybe everything would've been hunky-dory?

 

I fear that I was selfish. And then at the same time, I feel like, well, I can't help that he'd already finished his Ph.D. and was in a very lucrative field and I wasn't there yet. He never said it wasn't okay that I wasn't as far along in my education as he was, or that I didn't make as much money...and yet, he never said it WAS okay, either. I mean, it's not like he proposed to me as a way of showing how serious he was about my coming to be with him in his home city. If he'd proposed to me, I'd have said yes, and I'd have put my thesis on the back burner and moved to be with him.

 

I guess I still have a hard time sometimes because I can't see as clearly as you, NJ, that we weren't right for each other. The guilt persists because I feel it was due to my "wrong" choices and "selfishness" that we broke up. I'm TRYING not to beat myself up about it because I know it's not productive...that's why I'm posting here and why I appreciate your and others' feedback so very much. So, thanks.

[tinke]

g.c., i hope you find some peace with this soon.

you have soooooo many admirable traits: compassion, ambition, intelligence, perserverence, kindness..............

 

i wish you would stop blaming yourself for the disolve of the relationship. step back and look at the situation...what would you tell a friend, loved one, etc. would you say...having ambition and goals were wrong? if you would have allowed the education to delay, how would you feel if he left anyway?

 

you were looking out for the future and completing what was started...that is admirable, don't sell yourself short!

 

a relationship works 2 ways...how much was he willing to sacrifice?

 

think of the way in which he left you.....nothing!!!! very disrespectful!!!!!

how does that play into your education?

after so many years, i'm sure you KNOW you deserved more than his coldness toward the end.

 

i do understand very well, the playing the past over and over, wishes to have done things differently, etc. but, somehow, something had changed, and i realized....at the time, i did my best under the circumstances, i reacted in my behaviors, because of his behaviors. i do feel great relief that it was not i, who terminated our relationship...he did. he has to deal with that fact! same as yours!

 

so, we have no control.....it was not our decision. i do find myself feeling disgust more frequent in Re: the way he left. regardless of the situation, you deserved more..an explanation, apology....something! it is very selfish to leave without explanation, and even more so, for him not to come right out and tell you he does not want to meet with you now (if that be the case).

so you see, the problem still exists...different communication styles. he is still avoidant!

 

please stop badgering yourself..there are many MATURE men who would welcome a confident, polished woman, without being intimidated.

 

and you know what? so what if you weren't the perfect G.F. all the time. love is not perfect! i know i had let things go unsaid, neglected. but, at the time...i did the best i was able to muster. where was their understanding? what i've come to realize is that i want someone who is accepting of the all of me...not to walk on eggshells wondering when he will become avoidant and run again. it is most difficult to keep regaining that trust!

 

with such a painful, shocking ending for me, i have to come to terms with...maybe i missed the lighter signs to leave, again and again...and a higher power is sending a strong sign that this relationship is not the right one.

maybe more hurt was ahead?

 

yes, i still hurt, but, i am also beginning to see his flaws/weaknesses which contributed to my actions/distance.

 

i do hope you find peace...some path of serenity. i believe it has to begin with self-acceptance, taking the blame off yourself.

i know the feeling, i did the same...but, honestly, when i really thought about it, i did the best that i was able to at the time! i am sure you did also!

you reached out for a second chance at getting together, he silently declined...again, that's all you can do...you did your best to reach out.

 

take good care

thinking of you.

[tinke]

greencove, something else i'd like to add for food for thought..............

that avoidant personality does not change with children, he was very avoidant, permissive as a parent! i did not witness him parent, he left most decisions on the child. plus..not much supervision.

[Zapbasket]

g.c., i hope you find some peace with this soon.

 

Thanks. Me too. And I will, I trust. It bothers me that I've been so...squashed by this. Just this afternoon, I had a long brunch with two good friends. It was like a Sex and the City get-together--both of them are in relationships, so we were catching each other up on our respective relationship statuses, mine, of course, being the status of my efforts to move forward. I had a totally embarrassing moment when one of my friends said, "I wish I'd met him, because then I'd have a better sense of what dynamic he brought to the relationship." Without thinking I said, "Oh, wanna see a picture of him?"--and I whipped out my wallet and brandished a passport-sized photo of him. My friends both were mortified, and took the picture away, teasing me relentlessly for carrying it around, STILL, in my wallet. I realized in that moment the extent to which I'm still struggling, and the extent to which it's so obvious to anyone how hung up on it all I am, STILL. I saw in a flash how I must appear to my friends, who don't judge me, of course, but the momentary out-of-body experience I had seeing myself through their eyes really opened MY eyes: I would be VERY CONCERNED about a girlfriend of mine being so hung up on someone who dumped her, just as all my friends are concerned about me. I saw how weak I've let myself become, how much my self-esteem has taken a beating, the degree to which I'm letting my care for him override my care for myself. I don't like this. It's not me. I'm stronger than this.

 

what would you tell a friend, loved one, etc. would you say...having ambition and goals were wrong?

 

You're absolutely right. I'd be very upset if I heard a friend of mine berate herself for being ambitious and acting to achieve her goals. I'd tell her that any relationship worth having has room for BOTH partners' dreams. It seems I'm much more capable of being compassionate and forgiving towards others than towards myself. This is not good.

 

i do feel great relief that it was not i, who terminated our relationship...he did. he has to deal with that fact! same as yours!

 

You know, I never thought of it this way. Having never made the decision to end a romantic relationship, I have felt certain that it is far better to have been the one to have made the choice, than to have the choice made for you. Perhaps that is not necessarily the case--at least, not always. I guess what chaffs me still is that he was so indecisive about EVERYTHING, except, in the end, his desire NOT to have me in his life in anymore. It feels like such a profound insult that even though I know it's irrational I can't help feeling like there is something truly awful, ugly, impotent about my love to make someone so unclear about so many things be so very clear about not wanting me around. That's a real sticking point for me, and like a steamroller it really squashes the juice out of my self-esteem. I don't yet seem to know how to get out of this way of thinking.

 

please stop badgering yourself..there are many MATURE men who would welcome a confident, polished woman, without being intimidated.

 

Yes, for some reason he was always kind-of intimidated by me. It was a mix of awe, intimidation, desire, affection, and light contempt (contempt is too strong a word; maybe consternation, like he didn't know whether to have admiration or scorn for certain attributes of mine, is a better word) that emanated from him. Back near the beginning of our relationship, he came over to my apartment after a long day in his graduate research center, all grumpy, and out of nowhere in a really sarcastic voice he said, "Just what is it that makes GreenCove so special?" It really took me aback. He also was always afraid that our future together would consist of me going off for further education or on some artistic pursuit and him having to trail along--which was not true at all. If anything, I was curbing all those pursuits because I was realizing for myself that what I really want is a vocation that promotes stability, where people are the center of my life, not Art, if that makes sense.

 

with such a painful, shocking ending for me, i have to come to terms with...maybe i missed the lighter signs to leave, again and again...and a higher power is sending a strong sign that this relationship is not the right one.

maybe more hurt was ahead?

 

Yes, Tinke, in your case, from what you've posted in various threads over the past 6 months, I really do think there was a higher power, if such a thing exists, at work behind the ending of your relationship. I don't doubt that there was a lot of love on both sides, but unfortunately your guy, from the sound of it, was tangled in a self-generated cycle of approach-and-avoid. Sadly for him, it prevented what most likely was his very sincere love from fully being able to find expression and gain him the satisfaction and solace he seeks. It is unfortunate for you, and very sad, that this caused so much uncertainty and ultimately pain for you. But now you are free of this cycle, whereas he is not. You sought some kind of advancement in the relationship because your love is not bound up in a web of intimacy fear. You deserve to be in a relationship where your love can meet its match so that you can continue in your life with a true sense of security, attachment, and validation. I have confidence, from the person you exude on this site, that you will find that.

 

i do hope you find peace...some path of serenity. i believe it has to begin with self-acceptance, taking the blame off yourself.

 

I wish I knew how to do that. I wish I could adopt the attitude I can so effortlessly encourage in others. I don't know why I'm so hard on myself--I guess I just want to have the extraordinary pleasure of seeing my love create something beautiful and enduring with another person. My ex would always say, "I think this can be an absolutely incredible relationship," and I believed it, as well. The potential seemed to be there, and I don't know how it failed. Norajane is right: I don't like to fail. I guess so far in my life, I feel like I've failed more than I've succeeded. Maybe I have a skewed perception of things; I dunno. But the worst failure is failing at love. I loved, and I failed. I know this is irrational but it's what keeps floating up, like sulphuric fumes from an open manhole. I haven't yet found the path out of this line of thinking.

 

take good care

thinking of you.

 

Thank you, Tinke. Ditto, and ditto.

[tinke]

g.c., his decision to leave...why can't it just be about him? maybe he couldn't keep up with you, maybe he was fearful you would advance without him, maybe he feared becoming boring. who knows....but, you are internalizing that it was because of you, only. "something truly awful, ugly about your love " to make him uncertain of so many things, yet, certain he does not want you? repeat....IT IS NOT ABOUT ME!

" I LOVED AND I FAILED" if you avhieved love, how can you fail? you now know what real love is, you will know it instantly the next time around!

 

yes, it surely would help to put his items away...ALL OF THEM! how can you move on with the constant reminders.

fear of failure? or is it fear of surrendering? someone else had called the play that you must follow..being out of control can be very frustrating, particularly adding puzzlement due to the fact, he never called any other shots!

 

you appear to be a strong-willed person, one with drive, purpose, goal-oriented. you most likely have initiative/motivation, so it would be difficult to surrender to something which appears senseless. yes?

 

but greencove, you must step back and really see that he is NOT responding. can you force him? no. all you CAN do is try your best to remove him from your life. force yourself for now until it gets easier on its own.

 

you have to know logically, you did your best in the relationship. yes, we all learn with hindsight. keep thinking how you would advise a friend in your place.

don't sell yourself short....you alone are not responsible for the outcome of the relationship! be kind to yourself, you MUST be your own best friend now...who else knows the nurturing you need now, better than you!

 

from your posts, i am positive you have an abundance of goodness to offer someone when the time is right. you seem to have strong passions, how nice to be able to have those expressions returned to you. i know, i know, now is not the time.

 

i don't really know how it is done, but i do believe acceptance is key! yes, i would read that and think yeah, sure...how?

for myself, i, as you, re-played everything in my head hoping to find something that made sense...it didn't happen! but, what did happen, i became exhausted from re-living the whole situation, and became less in awe of him. as this was happening, i began to see my strengths, qualities i brought. i still hurt over the way it ended, i would guess i always will. but, i also feel disgust for him now, in the way he ended it. he is no longer viewed through rose colored glasses. truth is...we both had great qualities, as we both had flaws! the difference, never would i had disrespected him in the way he did me in the end! it shows his poor character, not mine! same as yours! remember that..it is HIS poor character, his lack of discussion, his avoidance.

 

i know wknds. can be difficult.

 

keep posting...get it out somehow...

take good care

[tinke]

p.s. thanks for your kind words!

 

i look forward to the day we are writing about our new exciting, adventurous lives.

one day......